I would like to go to a standard Refer unit that fits through the door.
Maybe i should also ask does the stock Dometic go out the door?
Looks like abut a 13CF may be about the right ,OE size ??
Thanks,MM
Mike,
How wide is the door on your '88 GV? If you have a screen door, can you remove it to gain a little width?
24 wide and 26 or less deep should fit the OE hole. Home Depot shows a few .
The Samsung 18 cu ft French 3 door is 24 5/16" deep with the doors removed and is the smallest Samsung counter depth 3 door French refrigerator. I chose the Samsung as I found it the most trouble free in a rv, from all my service contacts
My front door measures 24.5 with the door trim still on. The installer of the new Samsung said by the time they take the trim off to bring thru the door, they can bring it in thru the side window safer and easier in the same time. A forklift and 4 guys were used. The old one was out the window and the new one in the rv, taking less than two hours including removing and re installing the window.
It is the same width as the one I removed. The window opening is 27 1/2" high, so I went with 20 cu ft. RF20HFENBSR/US, (two inches deeper) approximately 26 1/5 deep.
I and the wife are totally happy with our new refrigerator. Again, the 18 is 32 3/16 wide x 24 5/16 deep, same depth and width as the one taken out. Freezer now at -2 F and the refefrigerator a constant 38 F. I especially like the almost quiet bell that goes off after a few minutes with a door ajar.
I showed the pictures because I wanted you to see how much more room in this 20 cu ft, the same width and only two inches deeper than the unit taken out has. A piece of 2" trim around the unit makes it look factory.
Just remember 97 and up have a wider door then the 96 and below.
Mike, try Home Depot, we have a Vissani that's 24" wide and fits just perfect in our 88 where the Dometic was, you will need to build a platform about 12" tall.
I have an 86 GV and this unit fit through the door and works great. All I needed to do was build a wooden based for the fridge to sit on.
Avanti RA7316PST 2-Door Apartment Size Refrigerator, Black with Platinum Finish
Mike T
Mike,
I've been seriously thinking about a fridge upgrade myself, I also thought that if I'm going to do it I should remove the forced air heater assembly as well. We never bother with it, for the good it does and the noise it makes, nah' the extra space created increases the fridge size and purchase options.
Mick
Just a heads up-- Some of the smaller Refrigerators that Lowes and Home Depot carry do not use freon they use propane
It is called something else but it is propane. I installed one in SOB last coach had, thought it was freon but upon doing more research it was propane-- found out after the installation . It did go through a 24 inch door was the reason for choosing it to start with.
I think it was 10.5 cu.ft., and I only had to take 1/2 inch off one side of trim for it to fit the hole left by old dometic. It worked good, I was just never comfortable with propane used as coolant. Others that are expert may say it is fine to use, I just wasn't comfortable.
Just saying
Chris
Interesting Chris. I know that many, or at least some, gear heads are using the hydrocarbon based refrigerants in R-22 units with great success and haven't heard of any problems.
With a residential fridge using this with a compressor system there is no heating element as in a Dometic/Norcold. So the only way for the HC to escape would be to leak out and then be ignited by a spark. So I guess you need to make sure that there is no way for the coils to rub against anything.
My wife and I were able to wrestle a Bosch 300# stainless, side by side, counter depth fridge through the narrow 95 front door.
Removed the passenger seat, and door handle. Took the doors off the fridge.
Be sure to get a countertop depth refrigerator. It was just a lot easier to get the old Dometic out and the Samsung in through the LR window. Much less chance of damag8ng the dash or chairs or other upholstery. Reinstall the window using using a rubber gasket (available at Xtreme). Allow an hour to get the window out and all the sticky gealant cleaned up and a half hour for the reinstall. The LP refigerator weighed twice what the Samsung did. I rented a manual material lift (fork lift) for about $40. Well worth it for the ease of the transfer and the number of folks involved.
Thanks for all of the notes/tips. I currently have the Dometic 3801 and it works fine . It appears to be the OE install, 1988 .
I was under the wrong impression that it would not catch fire when run on 120V. I should have looked deeper when I failed to hear a compressor run. Thanks to the forum for the education.
Next questions; it looks like the current fridge has a surround that is screwed into the cabinets. Simply remove the screws and unplug it..? BTW the plug looked a lot like the burnt one in the other thread pic.
How are you fixing the residential unit in place? ;
. I have a 24 in wide hole and about 26in from the back wall to the edge of the door. 60 in tall or a little each way. My door is 24 .5 with the handle and stuff removed. ;
I like this one so far; https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-9-2-cu-ft-bottom-freezer-refrigerator-black/6220705.p?skuId=6220705
And this one ;LG Electronics 23.5 in. W 10.1 cu. ft. Bottom Freezer Refrigerator in... (https://www.homedepot.com/p/LG-Electronics-23-5-in-W-10-1-cu-ft-Bottom-Freezer-Refrigerator-in-Platinum-Silver-LBNC10551V/303528146)
We did this a few years ago. A friend and I removed the old refrigerator out the door. In order to do so I took off the table top and both grab bars by the door. Refrigerator went out very easily. Ordered an apartment-sized refrigerator from Lowe's. First one was damaged by the delivery man, so the next week a replacement arrived, delivered by the same delivery man AND his boss. This time he used the power lift, and no damage. Took the doors off of the new refrigerator and it went in through the door. Same friend helped me bring it in. We nailed it down temporarily so that Jo Ann could decide how she wanted the cabinets around it to look. Then Foretravel made the new cabinets. Pictures are in the picture link in my ad. The cabinets cost several times what the refrigerator cost.
The dometic will have a couple screws into the floor on the back side. LP gas, 120 volt plug and some 12 v wires, maybe a water line and a drain tube to disconnect. You need to close up the side wall vent and probably the roof vent. My refrigerator is held in place by the screw down leveling feet that fit into a recess in the base and a metal strap on the back side. It never moves. Secure the doors. Make sure the top of the doors clear what is near so that they open all the way.
The LG 15 cu ft is 23 3/8 D with door off LBNC15221V Weight 183 lbs it is 46 5/8 deep with door open, D door closed 27 3/8
H 67 3/4, W 27 5/8
My refrigerator is out of hole-- going to look at what makes DW happy!
Chris
Roger, did you leave the end holes on the outside vent open for extra air circulation or had you just not got around to closing them up? Also, did you raise the new refrigerator up to clear the wires and water lines behind it?
Thanks
Chris
Chris, my current unit is 26 deep and the position requires a similar depth and no handlebprotrusion . I hope to git the new unit in the same hole by removing the vacuum and building some sort of box to hold it up above the stuff in the floor . That little 9.3? looks like the right size and our price 😊
Two of us can't pass each other in the hallway as it is. We are both slim btw but the bus is old and narrow .
Everyone of these installs is slightly different. The biggest thing I had along the outside wall was the drain line from the kitchen sink, 1.5" ABS plastic. I loosened up and rearranged all of the 12v and 120 v wiring and the LP gas lines as well. There was some wiring up near the top as well to tidy up. I made a set of wooden tracks that ran from the front trim piece towards the outside wall. The front wheels on the refrigerator are a bit further apart than the rear ones somthe track is wide enough to make them fit. The refrigerator sitting on flat ground tips back a couple degrees, probably to help make the doors close on their own so my trackes are slightly higher at the wall end, about 3/32" so that the front of the refrig is parallel to the face of the cabinet.
The top of the tracks are about 2-1/2" above the floor. Room for some air movement and not high enough that the doors and the sliding door track interfere with with other.
I made a frame around the side wall vent and added a vertical sliding insulated panel. With the refrig in place it comes all the way back to within a half inch of the sliding panel. I would like to get rid of the original side wall vent but access into that space in nice to have. All of the holes in the removable parts are sealed up but not in the fixed part. I removed the screen in the roof top vent and put in a sliding louverd vent with a screen. When it is closed it seals up pretty well and open in the summer improves ventilation around the refrig.
And I added a floor to ceiling 2" deep x 4" wide pantry in the extra space.
Nice work Roger.
I removed the Dometic today . The cooler parts look pretty good . Just a little rust around the flue . No sign of leaks at the base. IF anyone wants it , come and get it. Jai Lai beer preferred.
It was probably a low time unit, sitting and corroding the insides. The roof vent system has leaked water for a while it appears and I need to address some areas there.
I had to dissemble it to get it clean out of the door.
The hole it sat in measured 23.6 in - wide same as the new unit. I am in the middle of opening up the hole to 23.75 + to get an easy fit of the new unit. ;https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-9-2-cu-ft-bottom-freezer-refrigerator-black/6220705.p?skuId=6220705 375$ with tax. Fits our small budget.
This is the one we got (only white.) The door is proud of the unit about 2.5 in, non counter depth, but I could not find a similar size , bottom freezer , 23.5 wide . Chris is right and it uses Flammable refrigerant, Pentane or so..
I built a 3/4ply base to sit on, remove the front feet and inserted a bolt with spacers on the aisle side with a small hourseshoe shaped bracket to retain the rear mounting tray .
It looks to be the perfect size for the early small body coaches. I hope to fit it within 1.5 in of the ice maker door protrusion.
Mol finished today
Looks great, Mike.
Nice fit, you did your research well
Read the tag. 1.74 amps max and 200 watts on defrost .
My simple math says about 17 amps or less from the inverter?
2-8D Batteries should run the thing for 12 hrs easy?
Is that possible?
I like the tag ;D The part where it lists the "Deforsting Power", maybe they meant deforesting power :o
Don
Get a plug in realitively cheap kw meter, measure your average power consumption. Nameplate data means nothing. How you drive it means everything, how often is the door opened, loading it up with already cool or cold food or beverages, letting hot moist leftovers to cool first, did you seal and insulate the existing exterior vents, highly recommended as the ambient inside the coach in the summer will always be less. Bonus is reduced humidity if you let it vent to the inside. Your roof AC also will do less work. Mike think of your fridge as a race car.
Mike, this is one of those things where labels may not be telling the whole truth.
Get a Kill A Watt meter
P3 International P4460 Kill A Watt EZ Electricity Usage Monitor - - Amazon.com (https://amazon.com/gp/product/B000RGF29Q/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
or a TP Link smart plug with energy monitoring, read the results on your phone.
https://amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0178IC5ZY/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all
Hook it up for a month and then report
Like the TP smart link thing, can be moved in your house or coach to isolate anomalies woops I don't have Alexa!
It doesn't need Alexa, just the KASA app on your phone ot tablet. If you have Alexa, it can control it. We have smart plugs in the coach as well as other Alexa contollable things. Alexa, turn on the living room light. Cool stuff.
From the LG installation manual: "This is a freestanding refrigerator and requires a minimum of 2 inches (5 cm) clearance above, behind, and at both sides for adequate air circulation and to reduce energy consumption."
Is your existing compartment large enough?
Bob
The rear of the unit, (right at the compressor motor), faces the OE vent grille with room for air to move vertically up to the OE roof vent. The sides are snug with maybe 1/2 in gap.
I have hopes of adding a second alternator to feed the coach powerpack and solar .
The initial test with a 750 watt inverter showed very little draw. So little that I opened the door to verify power and wait for it to kick on. The compressor is very quiet. very impressed so far. If it draws as little as it looks like it does I will be very happy.
I used an DC industrial shunt but the reading is off the low end of the scale . I ordered the "Kill a Watt" meter . Thanks.
Measured amps @.91 wither the amp clamp . Measured with the killa watt@ .89 amp.
About 82 watts running right now .
Volts reads 113. Same as the bus meter.
Looks pretty frugal and my yellow tag says 45$ per year .
I still dont quite understand how this can be ice cold and use 100watts or less.
Edit ; I opened the door and the amp meter shows the light @ .015 or so (LED light.)
The compressor does not run with the door open. Let the cooler warm up a few seconds. Close the door. The fridge must have some sort of smart box where it waits a couple of minutes to start the compressor . Compressor starts and the amps go to .90+-3. Watts to 83 +-. It does run maybe 20 minutes or more . Never shows more than .85 watts. often .79. Goes to 0 when compressor stops.
It sure gets a lot of BTU from very little power. My 2 8D should run it for over 12 hrs.
I added a second alternator, ( GM 1 wire 105 amp ) in place of the ac compressor . The new PSW inverter should be here today or thurs.
Mike, the refrigerators today are pretty efficient. Best way to understand power use is to measure it over a month or so of actual use. You will get a total watts and a total time. Average use over time is what you need to know. Looks like somewhere around 70 watts per hour may be typical.
Watts divided by your DC voltage plus losses through the inverter gives you about avarage amp draw on the battery
100 watts / 12.6v / 0.90 = 8.8 amps from the battery. 100 watts /113 volts AC = 0.88 amps AC.
Bob, my Samsung needs 3/8" on the sides and 1" ar the rear. I have at least three underneath and open for ventilation and maybe 5" at the top. All of that can vent out through the roof vent in the summer.
Was the compressor running? Energy usage depends on ambient air temps at the condenser, how often you open the door, the humidity when you open the door, and how long the door is open, and how warm the supplies you loaded into the refrig. You may be driving it on flatlands, once you get to a steep grade consumption will change
Roger how do you open and close the roof vent?
Chris
This is what I did to add open/close to the refrig roof vent. You can see six of eight waterproof solar panel cable entry points in the side of the vent base. The cover comes off with four screws.
The vents are plastic register vents, slide the handle one wat and they open, the other and they close. The screen got cut out, I trimmed the flanges where they overlap and put them in place with some 3M 4200 UV sealant/adhesive. If I really want to seal them tight I put silver alipuminum duct tape over them but usually they are fine just closed up for travel in the winter. Once we get to somewhere warm, I open them up again. Open/close twice a year.
22hrs of run time , 1.1KW used.
So to summarize where I am at this point .
I wanted to remove the 30 yr old propane fridge , Found this little "9.2 Insignia" . Fit it pretty easy by belt sanding the opening about 1/8 in . Around 380$
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-9-2-cu-ft-bottom-freezer-refrigerator-black/6220705.p?skuId=6220705
Measured the watts at about 90. (max)
Started doing some quick math and decided to buy another 8d Battery . For a total amp hr of around 400-500. They are both start batteries. Cheap at Rural King at 125$
Looked for a good 1000 watt inverter , Bought ebay PSW for 125$ with good ratings .
1000W 2000 Watt Power Inverter Pure Sine Wave 12V dc 110V 120V ac LCD Remote... (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1000W-2000-Watt-Power-Inverter-Pure-Sine-Wave-12V-dc-110V-120V-ac-LCD-Remote-RV/232635463941?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)
I like to be able to run the fridge while driving without genset. .. So I removed the engine driven AC compressor and added a GM performance 1 wire 105 amp alternator. 112$
Looks just like this only GM performance brand ;NEW ALTERNATOR 110A CHROME STREET ROD GM HIGH AMP OUTPUT ONE 1 WIRE | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ALTERNATOR-110A-CHROME-STREET-ROD-GM-HIGH-AMP-OUTPUT-ONE-1-WIRE/140741371599?hash=item20c4d6e6cf:g:dWgAAOSwc9Rbol6n:rk:2:pf:0)
Used #4 welding cable to run to coach batteries.
So here I am , hoping for 12 hrs or more of refer run without genset.
Will add solar next as soon as the race budget recovers..
Edit ; 28hrs of refer and computer run , no problem, bats still read 12.4 V.
stoopid fone ..
50 hrs of fridge run time and the bats read 12.4 .
Success.
From your previous post you are using about 50 watts per hour. 50 watts x 50 hours is 2500 watt hrs. (2.5 Kwh). Lower than most but not much.
If your batteries started at 12.6 volts and ended up at 12.4 volts then 2500 watts / 12.5 volts = 200 amp hrs. If you have 2 8Ds you have used at least 80% of your usable capacity. Refrigerators run in cycles. Be sure to measure voltage while the refrigerator is running, it will be a more realistic voltage.
The Kill a watt said about 37 per hr average for 500hrs. The above meter read looks right at 1.1 @ 22hrs. So some place between 37 and 50 depending on ambient temps.
I will read the meter off tomorrow . It is cooler now then the first few weeks of run.
The running watts are around 70 . It did start at around 85 ish. It has come down steadily along with time and the temps .
The inverter supplies 122 V.
40 hrs has been no problem with enough battery to start the gen, still over 12.4 .
I just plugged the bus in late Mon afternoon, after sitting from sat noon ish.
On your suggestion ,I will keep the batteries over 12.5 . Thanks.
A fridge is a fridge is a fridge...right?
I made the mistake of going too cheap and installed a Vissani 10 cu ft model in my previous motorhome. Apparently some fridges have heating elements in them so that they can operate in environments such as the garage or the outside vent area of a motorhome. The cheaper ones only operate at room temperature and will shut down if it is too cold out. The cheaper ones don't defrost either, so the freezer will work too hard and ice will block the passage way to the fridge. Spending an extra $100 for a Whirlpool would have solved my problems.
The energy guide for your refrig is a good place to start for target energy use.
374 KWH/year is about 43 watts per hour. That is a good number, pretty much on the lower end. So your meter numbers are good. The refrig just sitting there running will use much less than when you are opening the door and wondering "what's for lunch?". You probably have to add about 11% to that to get battery loads because of losses in the inverter. They are usually around 90% efficient.
Good job!
I could not find many positive remarks for the "Vissani" I could not find any negative ratings for the" Insignia." It fit my space and is bottom freezer. It has auto defrost . I hope that it works a for a few years.
Not sure what you are talking about RE heating elements. The only heaters are for defrost .
Roger. I cant read the inverter loss with my shunt. It is low also.
There is such a huge variance of Chinese electronics it seems. All that I have had in the last year has been really nice . So far.
Today the ambient temp is too cool for a fair reading. 97 hrs- 2.65 KW
The Samsung that many of us installed, & I assume many other brands/models, uses a heating element to reduce condensation on the exposed parts of the door frame. It is disabled with the "energy saver" switch.
We normally leave the Samsung in energy saver mode unless we are along the gulf coast. Pretty easy to tell when it needs to be on.
Propane fridges come apart with cooling coil separate from box.
While you have already bought and installed a fridge, I wanted to add that this LG bottom freezer fridge (https://www.homedepot.com/p/LG-Electronics-23-5-in-W-10-1-cu-ft-Bottom-Freezer-Refrigerator-in-Platinum-Silver-LBNC10551V/303528146) works quite well. It is taller than the original fridge so you will have to do some woodwork and will lose the cabinet below the fridge but I'm extremely happy with it.