First, thank you to all past and present Veterans for your service. Wanting to replace my 6 1/2 year old red tops from po. I've ordered 2 new fastronic mil spec battery Connectors.
But where do I find these original FT ready made cables? I'm in Yuma for the winter.
Thank you
Not likely to find the exact length and post configuration on the shelf anywhere. You could go to a good battery/starter repair shop, and probably get something made up custom that would be very close. Or, the easy do-it-yerself solution would be to use additional military style connectors plus ready made battery cables like they carry in most auto parts stores.
If you think about it, ditching the factory cables and replacing with 4 military connectors really makes more sense. With the old factory setup, the short cable clamps to the 2 battery posts, and then you need another clamp-on connector to provide a place to bolt on the big factory cables that go to the engine starter or ground or wherever. If you simply use 4 mil connectors on the start batteries, with short "jumper" cables between the 2 batteries, then you can attach the big heavy cables directly to the mil connector. This eliminates one post + connector...which in turn removes a possible resistance and corrosion point in the circuit. Also, there are two less connectors that can get loose or break.
From NAPA stores (#728222 is NEG, #728223 is POS)
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NW_728222
Or from Amazon
Amazon.com: Pico 0810PT Military Style Top Post Battery Terminal 1 Set... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001QRTZR0/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Tom if you decide to change out your cables I would recommend using the tin or nickel plated copper connectors. They carry more amps and your starter will like it better
Just my 2c worth
I've beed using them on farm tractors for years and have had good luck with then.
Chris
Easy to make out of welding cables for all high amperage uses. I slide a shrink tube over the cable then solder the cables/lugs, slide the tubing and then shrink it. The Detroit spins like a top in the coldest subfreezing temps. No corrosion, water intrusion possible.
In the hanger, we use tinned cables and a special tool in a vise to crimp the special lugs to the cable. Exactly like the hydraulic crimpers but we use a single jack. Shrink goes over part of the lug.
If you like to crimp, this is an excellent tool to use with a single jack and is only $17: Battery Lug Hammer Crimper Tool | Waytek Wire (https://www.waytekwire.com/item/462/CRIMPER-HAMMER-TOOL-8GA-4-0/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAw5_fBRCSARIsAGodhk9F3B47jkDaFxDXn_UgV30f-UAggkTvDst72w-4p1M0uAV6QEml0ekaAm9CEALw_wcB)
Pierce
Thanks Chris and Chuck for replies. Went to Yuma Napa and had both red tops load tested.
Wow, both about 4 volts at load test. Were 12.4 v when disconnected . Now I know,why even boost switch and 9 yr coach batteries wouldn't.
Crank the 8.3.
Bought these2 napa cables both neg and positve,arriving from L.A. this Tuesday at local napa.
Btw purchased 2 napa legend group 34 agm batteries less power, than redtops. Cca 775 and CA 890
Well, glad you were able to find the replacement battery cables at NAPA. I seemed to recall the last time one of our members went looking for them, they couldn't find any. Guess I was remembering wrong. Good to know they are now readily available! ^.^d
Alan at Bay Marine Supply will make any sized cable in almost any configuration you need. Give him a call.
Bay Marine Supply (https://baymarinesupply.com)
Use of UL 1426 approved marine tinned cables is required for boats. PVC coating on the cables is fire resistant and if burned the coating left behind is still an insulator somewhat. Just saying.
Alan should have the right stuff.
We only use battery cables with lug single-bolt-hole ends. Then bolt the cables to military-style battery terminal. Using cable with integrated battery terminal ends can be asking for trouble when the soft ends start to corrode, stress and stretch out as no one wants to spend the big bucks just for a failing terminal end. When terminals are separate from ends, carrying spares terminals and replacing them is inexpensive and practical. Also, easy to configure different cable attachment positions when not part of cable.
Cables can be easily made with lug ends in any length. Our three red-tops have arching cables between batteries bolted to military terminals. All of our 5 batteries have automotive posts with separate military-style terminals.
Thanks to Pierce, Roger, Bob and Barry also for your replies and links !
For y'all that like that sano look;
Quick Cable: Quick® Compression - Flag Connector (http://www.quickcable.com/products.php?pageId=328)
Quick Cable: Quick® Compression - Right/Left Elbow (http://www.quickcable.com/products.php?pageId=327)
We do not have boats. None of the factory original primary 12v large cables on my 2001 is marine tinned cable. It is all oil and fuel resistant epdm covered very flexible welding cable.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PWXj5XM0bh0
What's the Difference Between Battery Cable and Welding Cable? (http://blog.delcity.net/whats-the-difference-between-battery-cable-and-welding-cable)
http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/338245/_Blog/Kieckhaefer_Difference_Between_Battery_and_Welding-Infographic/Battery_Cable_vs_Welding_Cable.pdf?__hstc=15319849.a8c8be5f46a971f62e0addf9b3dd2f44.1542052010606.1542052010606.1542052010606.1&__hssc=15319849.1.1542161424180&__hsfp=468089939&hsCtaTracking=551b712f-42df-4e01-ac98-03b86bed9730%7Cf50d31a0-4e90-4c24-aed5-33dd311860b2
Choose what you want to use.
So fire retardant cables are not important? Good for you. The EPDM sags off the cable and can increase the amount of shorting if it occurs. It drips off. The pvc forms a dryed out covering helping to reduce adfitional shorting.
The pvc puts out Halogen gas when burned.
Yes I know it's more money.
An 85 year old horse trader stood in one of my coaches 30 years ago and offerred his sage advise.
"Cheap things aren't good and good things are not cheap."
As far as pricing things "you can always go down, it's hard to go up."
As I was in the building the night of the Vegas MGM Grand Fire and spent a few years afterwards 16 days in the burn ward in a propane fire I am a little conservative about this stuff.
Here is the standard from 1987
https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/006/ul.1426.1986.pdf
One thing not knowing it's another thing to save $$ on cabling when a safer alternative exists.
But then again I only use UL appliances as did Foretravel.
Foretravel probably was not aware of the cabling differences. Some on this is recent stuff.
And of course it's not a boat. Just a bunch of fiberglass and fuels and electrical systems. An accident is where this may help.
Found my army surplus one's on Ebay. All the bells and whistles like Bob pointed out. Cheap as chips
Went through the same thing in Yuma. Almost pulled the starter to have it rebuilt while there. Our one Deka 8D start batt. read 12.2 while turning the over engine. Load tested fine, but flunked the hydro test.It was just one weak cell.
Went with two group 31's
The new tray sits on top the old one. Just lengthened the hold down bolts. There are piece's of angle iron to keep it from sliding. Didn't want to weld on coach.
Have never looked back. I could drive the coach on the batts now.
Chris
* Note. I changed the batt cables since the photo to change the load across the batteries.
Just wanted to mention,I installed both Napa ready made cables today. After tightening hold down,and installing the red right side positive I noticed the black negative is 3/4" longer, or positive was short.
So you'll notice after loosening hold down, I tilted rear battery a bit to allow longer negative cable to fit. Napa lists them as 8 inch. Maybe measuring from center post to. Center post.?
The black rubber between clamps was 6 1/4" and red rubber was 5 1/2" long.
Will let the trick L start do its thing overnite,then turn the key. Both now at 12.9v
You should reverse one set of cables so that the main positive cable goes to one battery and the main negative cable goes to the other battery. Hooking them both up to one battery will put most of the load on that battery and it will have a dramatically shorter life than the other battery.
Roger, Not a bad idea. This is my first mh,let alone first FT. Just copied FT original design.
Like you say, I could slide both batteries inward towards motor and hopefully main pos or negative lead would reach reversed post clamp.
Thanks again.
Roger, thanks again for post and your diagram.
Reversed the left negative cable, and moved batteries back so large negative cable would reach.just drilled new 3/8"hole for hold down.
Not tissing you over this Rodger. I actually changed mine to this configuration back when I did mine. But I have had lots of conversations over this issue, and most people that understand electricity. One being a guy that rebuilds starters and alternators for big rigs.He is old school. They don't agree. Just a fun conversation.
Now lets discuss leaving batteries on the cement, or on a piece of wood.
Chris
;)
Chris,
There are lots of old school guys that are old school in thinking, understanding and comprehending. Some of those live right here on the Forum. Just because someone thought that was the way to do in the old days doesn't make it right now.
https://www.iotaengineering.com/pplib/balancedcharging.pdf
You are free to use your batteries anyway you want and replace them much sooner than everyone else along with the old school guy.
Like I said, I changed mine to this configuration just to appease everyone, but still doesn't make any logical sense to many of us.I guess we are all hard headed.
Lots of things pencil out on paper, but don't really work in the real world either.
When I take them out, I still put them on blocks of wood too. LOL
Cheers
Chris
I have seen other diagrams showing all positive and negative cabling the same exact length. Some would be coiled up.
Then draw the power from the junction of the cables ends.
It's the slow loss of capacity that results that is noticeable if you have good to start with new batteries.
Less than optimal setups finally become noticeable that they have lower voltages after similar amp hours used.
And takes more gen run time to reach float voltage.
The shown setup may work well. Only way to know is to run this a few years and then test each battery separately.
Especially if you started with new fully charged measured at rest batteries and wrote down the individual battery's voltage.
Anyway other than equal length cabling would require me to rotate the batteries to equalize the wear.
Not easy for most here to rotate the house batteries. So equal cabling should eliminate that need and give better results for longer use and last much longer.
Someone here has the equal length battery bank wiring diagram.
The PDF and the theory all sound good and are true. But being practical, the charge current put out by the charger is usually drastically lower than the ampacity of the cable and connections. Any voltage drop on clean connections is going to be negligible...especially at float voltage/current. If doing new wiring, it makes sense to do it that way, but it's probably not worth worrying about.
Only reason I mention all this stuff is the long term capacity loss. Irritates me to see the amp hours used not match the battery voltage left. If you do not know what it is supposed to be then it may not bother you are much. What if you spent the time and experience and research to know?
Any mismatch is not going to come back unless maybe you have Lifeline AGM's or flooded cells which can be equalized.
The oem gels cannot and do not need equalization.
I am getting the idea that all this info is unappreciated. That the cheaper price regardless of the quality and results and safety is the governing idea here.
Not the way Foretravel built every uni whatever.
Not the way I ran my store.
If you can show me an equivalent result for less money I am all ears.
Not a price guy on rv systems. Never worked out better for me or my customers.
My experience since 1984 with Foretravel and my other brands.
Hello Bob, your posts are appreciated! My next set of house batteries will be gel, unless because of budget and I go to 4 8Ds from the three. I've read more on the differences between gel and agm, after adding the residential refrigerator, you are very accurate.
Spent countless hours as a Foretravel manager trying to help rv'ers. Lots of skeptics. Had many customers write down stuff I said. Then they would spend up to years checking what I said out.
Had some cone back and tell me I was correct and told them the truth and ask me why I went through that much work to educate them.
I told them that if you know I will end up with the sale.
Average customer took 21 months to buy. 4 to 5 return trips to my store.
Foretravels were not an easy sale. Not pretty
Charging or discharging works the same way. The closer you can get to having balanced resistance to charging your batteries or discharging your batteries the better they will be for it. They will just last longer whether they are AGM or GEL type. FT right out of the factory were wired this way. The only improvement is to wire each battery with equal length cables to a common plus or minus bus bar and connect load or charge to the bus bar.