Several others have already installed these batteries and posted good information in various postings. While they are considered a "drop in" replacement for a lead acid battery due to their internal Battery Management System, there are issues and considerations for properly integrating them. As these batteries seem to be getting more popular, this new topic is created
specifically for the technical discussion of integrating Battle Born batteries into FT coaches.
To start with a relevant issue:
These batteries are capable of accepting very high current charge rates, which aren't good for the battery or the alternator. What, if any, modifications need to be made to protect the alternator from overheating?
Battleborn generically recommends either a Sterling Power Battery to Battery Charger 12V input to 12V output 30amp DC... (https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop/sterling-power-battery-to-battery-charger-12v-input-to-12v-output-30amp-dc-powered-charger/) (for 2 or fewer batteries) or a LiFePO4 Battery Isolation Manager - Battle Born Batteries (https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop/lifepo4-battery-isolation-manager/) (for 3 or more batteries). I'm not sure this takes into account the specific configuration of our coaches, which already have battery isolation & high output alternators. The BB Isolation Manager is only an automated switch that connects the house batteries to the chassis batteries periodically under certain conditions. It is not a direct replacement for our standard isolators & It does not limit the current from the alternator. It is a timer that allows charging from the alternator for 15 minutes out of every 35, giving it time to cool between cycles. They have also indicated that the relatively long distance between our alternators and the house batteries may help to protect the alternator. I plan to monitor the charging output with a clamp meter at the alternator, at the isolator and at the batteries to make sure nothing is overloaded and hopefully not need any new hardware. Anyone already dealt with this?
What I did on my Newell when I installed 1000 amp hours of Winston cells was to use a Balmar MC-614 external regulator. It had many different configurations to protect the alternator and also to limit max voltage and to set float volts. This protected both the alternator from overheating and the belts.
But I'll probably add a cutoff switch between the isolator and house batteries (thanks to Brett Wolfe's suggestion). I'll be relying on solar, then inverter for charging. And only use the engine once the SOC of the BB batteries have gotten up to a safe enough level to turn on the alternator. What are these values? Don't know yet, it'll be somewhat trial and error.
Also I have the Prosine 2500 inverter. According to BB I'll be able to set the bulk, absorb, and float values to an acceptable level.
My Victron Smartsolar 75/15 is programmable to what BB likes.
I have two Victron solar controllers and a Victron inverter/charger. Will try as suggested, a disconnect between alternator and lithium batteries and monitor their SOC. Hopefully solar will supply the majority of the charge I need. I do have a absorption fridge.
My batteries should be delivered on Tuesday next week!
Went by the coach today and did some measurements, etc. The battery cables I have are all for a post connection where the BB's will have a tab (flag) with a bolt, so I'll either have to cut off the connectors and crimp on connectors on all the cable ends or buy a "flag to post terminal adapter". BB has these for $10/pair and I'll need 3 pair. I just ordered these for $1.06 each from Delcity.
Also checked my alternator and it is a Leece Neville 160 amp.
My batteries arrived on Friday and I installed them yesterday. I used the existing racks but added plywood floors for support and to utilize the extra shelf space gained by the smaller batteries. I shed 400 lbs while maintaining about the same usable 300 amphours that I had with the AGM's at a 40% discharge. I always tried to recharge at 30% discharged and rarely ever took them down to 50%.
The only issue worth noting for the installation is that the bolts provided by Battle Born are too short. With only one of my cable terminals attached, the locking nuts wouldn't thread far enough to reach the nylon. Add 2 or more cables, and a longer bolt is required. But, too long of a bolt won't work either because it will hit the battery case. They could have provided longer bolts that would have worked for most situations, and they could have designed the terminals and the case a little better.
After installing, I set my Magnum MS2812 inverter/charger to Custom battery type, with the following settings:
- Capacity: 300ah
- Absorb: 14.6v
- Float: 13.6v
- Absorb Time: .3
- Final Stage: Float
- Max Charge: 100%
- Auto Efficiency: On
An issue that I hadn't realized until talking to Magnum about the above settings is that the Magnum charger will not start bulk charging these batteries automatically when AC power is applied. Due to the high voltage of the Battle Born batteries, they will almost always be well above the trigger setting on the charger. So, the charger sees a "full" battery at anything above 12.7 or 12.8v and won't start bulk charging a partially depleted Battle Born at 13.2v, for instance. The workaround provided by Magnum is not a great one. The charger has to be manually forced into Re-Bulk mode every time it's plugged into shore or generator power. Otherwise it goes directly to float mode, which will charge the batteries but will take very long time. Fine for putting the RV in storage at the end of the trip but not ok for recharging with the generator during a trip. It's only a couple of button presses on the remote panel but still a hassle. Battle Born tech support suggested that putting the charger in CC-CV (constant current, constant voltage) mode may solve the problem but I have not explored that option yet.
After getting the settings correct, I wanted to test my alternator charging. These batteries have the potential to accept very high current that is not good for them or for the alternator. 50amps is the max recommended per battery x 3 = 150amps, which my 160amp alternator isn't likely to exceed. My concern is more for the alternator and the belt. I reset my total amphours out meter to 0, started the Samsung fridge and ran the convection oven for 40 minutes, which drained 80ah's from the batteries. I started the engine, warmed it up, turned on the lights and idle'd at 1500rpm. Total amps out at the alternator peaked at about 127amps with 110 of that measured at the batteries. That's well under the limit for the batteries but I don't know if that's a safe load for the alternator to run for hours at a time. Battle Born recommends their Battery Isolation Manager or a DC-DC charger, both of which I'll be considering. A cutoff switch, as others have mentioned, is also an option but I think I'd rather not go that way.
So far I'm happy with the batteries and looking forward to some real-world testing. I'll also be adding a little bit of solar to help extend them further between charges while dry camping.
Next time you check the alternator charging use your infrared temp gun to watch the temperature at the alternator case and the belts.
Install looks good!
I moved the house bank off the isolator and kept my trickle charger from the house to the engine batteries.. so far so good.. Alternator charges the engine only at this point.. havnt decided what is next
I have no direct knowledge but a quick reading of the online manual for the Magnum advanced remote control (ME-ARC) seems to show a custom setting where the charger can be set to come on in bulk charge.
I do not think the std ME-RC has that ability.
Not sure it will do what you want but a call to magnum or a reading of the online manual might show if the advanced remote will help your issue.
Had not thought about the li-ion not having a voltage drop to trigger the charging circuit.
Do the battle born batteries have an internal battery management system?
With a quick reading of the online manual https://battlebornbatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/BB10012-Cut-Sheet.pdf
Yes.
Mike
"... a quick reading of the online manual for the Magnum advanced remote control (ME-ARC) seems to show a custom setting where the charger can be set to come on in bulk charge. "
I believe you're referring to the "Start Bulk" feature? That's the manual setting that I referred to above. It has to be reset every time the batteries are charged. Here's what the manual says about it:
Start Bulk – This selection restarts the Bulk cycle from any stage in the charge cycle as long
as AC is present and the charger is active. The Start Bulk setting is useful when a full multistage
charge cycle does not bring the specific gravity of the batteries to the proper level.
Info: The Start Bulk selection automatically returns to Multi-Stage once the status
displays "Bulk Charging" (or "Constant Current" if battery type CC/CV is selected).
Researching a little further, it looks like the CC-CV battery type settings may solve the problem. Magnum tech support mentioned this setting but recommended staying with the Custom battery type. I'll need to call them back to see if CC-CV is a good option, and how to configure it.
"Do the battle born batteries have an internal battery management system?"
Yes, but their internal BMS only protects against overcharging, drawing too many AH's out before re-charging, charging outside of safe temperatures etc. The other variables like charge rate & charge voltage are determined by the external charger.
Maybe this topic should get moved over into Tech Talk rather than the Chit Chat forum.
Not sure how to do that.
Following Brett's comments in earlier posts I chose to separate the dissimilar batteries by moving to a manual switch instead of an isolator. In the two and a half years of our install, I have never had the need for alternator charging of house. In essence, the DUVAC set up is no longer used. The capability is there but not used to date. The 1180 Solar provides all the charging needed and if it falls short a quick genset run is sufficient. We have done that only two or three times in the last couple of years and only because of my skittish behavior when I see percentages in the high 50%. There is a bit of behavioral adjustment when you first switch over.
At the coach today doing a few things and planning out the BB install. The easiest way will be to put the BBs on the lower rack where the gels currently are. But I've never been accused of doing things the easy way.... So since I'll probably be removing the Bose it looks like there is just enough room where the sub is under the sofa to mount the BBs laying on their side. I can fit 2 together at 18" wide and the 3rd in front of these which is an 18" x 26" footprint. Looks like they will just fit, then have to run the 2 battery cables through the floor. This will have the BBs inside which should protect them from extreme temps.
Should get the BBs tomorrow and will get the exact dimensions, then make sure the battery cables will be flexible enough to fit there also. This would also give me more storage where the gels were.
I'm confused... are you really going camping in minus 4 temps?
Are there any temperature restrictions on your LiFePO4 batteries? - Battle... (https://battlebornbatteries.com/are-there-any-temperature-restrictions-on-your-lifepo4-batteries/)
Maybe I'm being toooo simplistic, but by "drop in" like stated 99% no issues and similar parameters for other types of batteries.
Alternator charging.. says it's ok so I called. BMS Handel's how much charge accepts with our Duval 1 60amp
Seriously thinking this would help my space issue.
I believe the BMS shuts off charging at +25deg, not -4. You can pull power from them at a much lower temp than you can charge them. Moving them inside is a great option if you plan to use them in below freezing temps, and the temp inside the bay would normally be quite a bit higher than outside. For me, the bay temps dipping below freezing would be a very rare situation and a simple space heater in the bay could solve the problem.
As far as the alternator, yes the BMS will limit the total AH's of charge but it won't limit the amps that the batteries will accept to get there. They're going to take as much as the alternator can send them. I tested and my alternator is producing over 110 amps just to feed the batteries. Does it work? Yes. Is it good for the alternator? Maybe not. I know the alternator got pretty hot, and I only ran it for about 15 minutes. Running it for the hours that would be required to recharge a bank of batteries without some protection seems risky. Battle Born highly recommends the 2 options that I mentioned in the 1st posting, depending on how many batteries you have.
I have the same and a slightly different problem. I have a battery combiner that will connect house and start batteries if either bank over 13 volts. could be hard on start batteries if charging lithiums at 14.4 volts. I think I will just remove it and use solar and inverter/charger to charge lithiums. In an emergency can always use boost switch to combine banks.
I tested my rebuilt LN 160 amp alternator and the inverter by baking a dish in the convection microwave driving across the desert for several hours. No gen. Batteries were low also. Lots of gauge/voltage fluttering as the oven cycled on and off. Nothing failed.
Dan at Lewco in Costa Mesa, ca rebuilt and tested the output on the neatest old Bakelite, made in Chicago, machine.
He noted the oem LN has large heat sinks for max loads.
As far as the ME-RC versus the ME-ARC remotes being better suited or even capable of being able to run a li-ion battery bank seems to be an unknown at least by me.
After a couple of cryptic email answers from Magnum tech support today, the Constant Current/Constant Voltage option is apparently supposed to solve the bulk charging problem. Why didn't they tell me that in the 1st place? There's got to be a downside to CC/CV but they aren't responding to that part of my question. I won't be able to test it now for a couple of weeks.
Regarding climate control of lithium batteries, I:
- Insulated the house battery box by extending the divider between the diesel fuel tank, installing insulation and a rubber door seal
- Drilled two 3 inch holes on the ceiling of the battery box. One for intake under the couch and one for exhaust under the fridge.
- Installed a 3 inch 115VAC fan to circulate climate-controlled cabin air into the battery box. The fan only draws 5 watts. This keeps the batteries between 40 and 90 degrees F. The only down side is that the coach has to be heated to about 45F during the winter and cooled to 85F during the summer even if the rig is not being used. Since I don't winterize, the energy is not wasted in the winter.
- Mounted the batteries with a one inch air spacing from the floor, since there is thermal bridging with the steel structural members on the basement floor. I should have insulated the batteries with 2 inch polyisocyanurate rigid insulation, which is R13.
Appears the Battle Born with the built in BMS are pretty tolerant compared to early lithiums. If you stay out of extreme temps, you will probably be okay.
Battle Born 100 Ah LiFePO4 12 Volt Deep Cycle Battery (https://www.batteryequivalents.com/battle-born-100-ah-lifepo4-12-volt-deep-cycle-battery.html)
I try not to get below 40 or so, and above 110 or so, ambient. This is the advertisement, will see how it works in the real world.
Extreme temperatures occur frequently. For example:
C O L D
I was in Laffayette, LA (near the Gulf coast) in January and there was a rare ice storm that lasted for days. The detrimental phenomenon is called "Lithium Plating". The article below states: ..."When charging at above-freezing temperatures, the lithium ions inside the battery are soaked up as in a sponge by the porous graphite that makes up the anode, the negative terminal of the battery. Below freezing, however, the lithium ions aren't efficiently captured by the anode. Instead, many lithium ions coat the surface of the anode, a process called lithium plating, which means there's less lithium available to cause the flow of electricity and the battery's capacity drops."
H O T
In the hot summer, the sun will beat down on the side of the rig, causing the battery compartment to reach 120F. Technomadia, a popular RV couple and website, noticed that their expensive non-climate-controlled LiFePo4 batteries had reduced capacity, probably due to high temperatures. Many Nissan Leaf batteries had to be replaced early in the hot desert southwest due to excessive hear and lack of a battery climate control system, a Nissan design mistake.
SUMMARY
Without climate control, the batteries would have been damaged in both cases. This damage does not appear right away. It appears years later in reduced capacity. Here is a relevant article from the web:
EVEN MORE DETAILS
Lithium Battery for Cold Weather Applications | RELiON (https://relionbattery.com/blog/lithium-battery-cold-weather)
"Lithium iron phosphate batteries can be safely discharged over a wide range of temperatures, typically from –20°C to 60°C, which makes them practical for use in all-weather conditions faced by many potentially cold temperature applications including RVs and off-grid solar. In fact, lithium-ion batteries have much better performance at colder temperatures than lead-acid batteries. At 0°C, for example, a lead-acid battery's capacity is reduced by up to 50%, while a lithium iron phosphate battery suffers only a 10% loss at the same temperature.
The Challenge of Low-Temperature Lithium Charging
When it comes to recharging lithium-ion batteries, however, there's one hard and fast rule: to prevent irreversible damage to the battery, don't charge them when the temperature falls below freezing (0°C or 32°F) without reducing the charge current. Unless your battery management system (BMS) communicates with your charger, and the charger has the ability to react to the data provided, this can be difficult to do.
What's the reason behind this important rule?
When charging at above-freezing temperatures, the lithium ions inside the battery are soaked up as in a sponge by the porous graphite that makes up the anode, the negative terminal of the battery. Below freezing, however, the lithium ions aren't efficiently captured by the anode. Instead, many lithium ions coat the surface of the anode, a process called lithium plating, which means there's less lithium available to cause the flow of electricity and the battery's capacity drops. Charging below 0°C at an inappropriate charge rate, also causes the battery to become less mechanically stable and more prone to sudden failure.
The damage to the battery when charging at colder temperatures is proportional to the charging rate. Charging at a much slower rate can reduce the damage, but this is rarely a practical solution. In most cases, if a lithium-ion battery is charged below freezing even once, it will be permanently damaged and must be safely discarded or recycled."
Good points Tim, if it looks like a hard freeze, I will probably be plugged in somewhere with bay heaters on. My batteries are also in next compartment to aquahot, so doubt they would see 32 f.
I would turn off my inverter/charger and solar chargers if it did get very cold but believe battle born bms with disconnect batteries from charger or inverter if too hot or too cold.
What is a BMS? - Battle Born Batteries (https://battlebornbatteries.com/what-is-a-bms/)
Yes, the BMS is there to protect the battery from charging at too low or too high temps, and the 8-10yr warranty backs that up. I think I'll trust it to do it's job while I also monitor my bay temps. If I the temps are frequently getting out of range, I'll explore options for permanently dealing with it. Until then, I see no reason to fix what probably isn't broke.
If the battery suddenly disconnects from the charger, a voltage spike could damage both the charger and 12 Volt DC load electronics like the fridge, heater, AC and hot water heater. This depends on the design of the system. This is why I have big honking 15 Volt zener diodes across my house 12 VDC bus. The BMS should send a disconnect signal to the charger to stop charging but shoukd keep supplying 12VDC to the house.
Conversely, the BMS should shut down the battery load if necessary, but this should not harm any electronics.
Not sure Foretravels with inverter/chargers have the ability to stop charging batteries but still supply 12 volts to the coach. The battle born batteries do not communicate with the charger. I look at the automatic battery disconnect feature as sort of a fuse in case of a catastrophic failure. For as much as they cost, I will be keeping a close eye on temps and operation. If anything looks suspicious, inverter and charger, and any sensitive 12 volt loads will be turned off by me before battery has to disconnect itself.
Jim one other thing to remember in that compartment is the heat generated from the return line to the fuel tank. You have probably read the same posts in the past that I have concerning fuel temps and would want to keep the tank at least half full.
I also added a 120 outlet and use a small 200w heater in that space. If boondocking, I do as you mentioned and turn off the inverter. Solar is also turned off with overnight lows as I don't want the morning sun charging.
Though I have not had to or attempted to, I think the 16 amp draw of the heater could warm the compartment in a short amount of time and then kick in the Genset. But I haven't done more than wool gather on that idea.
Thanks George, my fuel tank is behind my battery compartment so hopefully not too much heat transfer, but do keep over 1/2 tank all the time. Aqua-hot is in opposite compartment so when its running should help keep battery compartment warm enough. I am going to buy a remote reading thermometer with audible alarms so I can keep track of temps down there from inside the coach.
Still waiting for my battery monitor and shunt before I get it going, but am wondering like Bob, how to get the inverter to go into charge because the voltage does not drop to signal charge to start. [I have a Victron multiplus} How is yours set up?
Lithium is a great idea, no voltage drop, 100% SOC usability. Light weight. Quick charging. What's not to like?
Temp....
My system is set up with an external BMS that receives direct signals from the batteries. The shunt to the 702 to the CCGX and the Digital Multi. There is no internal battery management component. Have you programmed the inverter for the parameters of the BBs? I am not familiar with them. You may want to drop Roger a note or ask BB if they have a script you can load into the Multipass. Sorry I can't be of more help.
Two things:
1. OVER VOLTAGE PROTECTION
I put three 1N3314 Zener diodes across the house 12VDC bus just in case the lithium system voltage rises above 15 VDC. Here are photos of the data sheets. Three diodes can dissipate up to 150 watts of power and are mounted on a big honking heat sink. See photos below.
2. FREEZE PROTECTION
Two methods:
A. INVERTER OFF
The propane furnace supplies heat to the cabin and basement.
Lessons learned: These fans should have been 12VDC so that they could run with the inverter off. I am concerned with freezing without the fans. I may add a small branch duct off a propane hearer duct under the couch and route it to the lithium battery compartment.
I am boondocking at French Creek State Park in Pennsylvania under trees and a cloudy sky. The solar panels may only produce 1KWH today, enough to survive, but with a night time low temperature of 25 degrees, I will have to more actively prevent pipes and batteries from freezing.
B. INVERTER ON
Two methods:
a. There are four small, quiet four inch 115VAC fans that circulate warm air around the basemenmt: Two fans bring in warm cabin air and push it to the basement. Two circulate air around the basement.
b. Two 115VAC Frost King 200 watt heat strips warm the water and waste tanks when the temperature is 42 degrees or less in the basement. The lithium battery has no heat strips.
Something to get you started.. I have not been able to spend time in the coach to try any of this yet.. float around 13.8 but never seen 14.4 ... im still a little confused on this so havnt spent much time on it..
but it is working as is and as advertised .. still have questions but like I said, confused
https://2n1s7w3qw84d2ysnx3ia2bct-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Lithium-Iron-Phosphate-LiFePO4-Generic-Charge-Settings.pdf
Victron Lithium Battery Setup (https://shop.pkys.com/lithium-installation-details.html)
The second link above shows the screen shots of your Multipass. This what the script I mentioned will upload into and is described by the author. But this will depend on the settings from BB and their recommendations for their battery's. It is not difficult to do but you will need a PC.
Yes, I have Victron Configure on my laptop, BB takes slightly different settings than the Victron batteries. Alan at Bay Marine works with BB and they have established good settings. He sent me screen shots of BB recommendations.
Just met him in person a couple of weeks ago. Very gracious with his time and a real gentleman.
Just as an aside, the Victron solar controller has a lithium setting as well. Small bevel underneath with arrow to set. You are going to be very happy with these after initial set up. The two chargers talk to each other and remove any conflicts.
Enjoy!
My coach lost over 500 lbs of ugly battery fat.
I intended to switch my Magnum from custom battery type to CC/CV (Constant Current/Constant Voltage) to resolve the issue where the charger can only start in Float mode due to the higher voltage of the LiFePO4 batteries. I couldn't find that option on my ME-ARC remote. Magnum now tells me that it wasn't available until version 4.0. Mine is 3.01, and is not upgrade-able. To use CC/CV I'd have to buy a new remote. So, I'll live with it for a while and see how it goes. Worst case is that it charges at the lower float voltage unless I manually force it into re-bulk mode. Even at float voltage it's putting over 70 amps into a 20% drained battery bank. That may be good enough for most situations but whenever charging with the generator, re-bulk would need to be started manually to speed it up.
Magnum says they are working on custom profiles for LiFePO4 but will not have anything available anytime in the near future. And they may require a new controller as well.
Finally got help today and removed the 3 gel 8Ds and installed the 3 BattleBorns. I'm letting the inverter run a charge cycle, in absorb mode for a little while longer then I'll set the SOC at 100% in the BMV-712 and shut off the charger. I plan to check back in a couple days to see how well the solar panels keep up the charge. I'm plugged into shore power so shouldn't have much battery draw. After the holidays I'll spend a few nights in the coach to do a full test on battery power.
I decided to put the BBs on the top shelf and use the bottom shelf for storing spare parts. They fit well but the 3/0 battery cables were pretty stiff to work with. Would have been much easier if I had made new cables but decided to use the existing ones.
folivier, looks good. The 3/0 cables, if they are indeed battery cable are pretty stiff. Much stiffer than EPDM covered welding cable which is what they must have switched to by 2001. I wired up my L16 6v batteries with 4/0 welding cable. Petty flexible stuff.
When you get to it change those cables to three sets of equal length cables that go to bus bars. A switch on at least the negative side after the bus bar makes it easy to isolate the batteries. Shunts for battery monitors go after the bus bar. Then from there with a negative cable to the common negative post on the next bay. The cable from the positive bus bar goes to a common post in the next bay as well. I am liking the idea of a switch in the plus side after the bus bar as well. You should have a 300 amp fuse at the plus common post now.
I will be looking for this BB Black Friday Sale next year. My lifelines will be 8 years old and if they have any poop left in them I will wire them up to get charged from my 9600 watts of solar on the house for a power outage backup.
Since my RV will spend some winters in Oregon not plugged in, some weather low 20's, yes temp prohibits me, next will be gel or again agm, because of that.
Oriellys has online 15% off till year end on AGM8D, 8D AGM @ 459 less 15 %
I was going to start another thread but I'll integrate this here as it's still has to do with lifepo4 setup and install. I am looking to install the li-bim 225
If has a spot for chassis and house batteries. As per photo.. any idea where the alternator wire goes? Do I need to drop the isolator completely to tie this in? Also thinking the boost switch wire can be ran to this directly at the switch wire? A little confused .
Pics and another install sheet that has the same basic setup .. any ideas?
As long as you have a BMS ( built in battery management system) you can't really hurt these to bad.. it takes most of the thinking out of it. If the basic operating parameters work then you shouldn't have an issue for the most part.
To me, appears to take the place of the diode isolator, and alternator, sense wire, etc should be on the chassis battery. In my case I removed the isolator and am only using the boost circuit to join the two banks together if necessary. I can watch both banks while driving and see SOC of house batteries so can manually connect and disconnect them as needed. Haven't really needed to use the boost switch much, because the lithium batteries charge much faster than lead acid.
Do agree that the Battle Born's are pretty much "operator error" proof.
The alternator wire goes to your chassis battery. Since the chassis battery is connected to the Li-BIM 225, the alternator is indirectly connected through it as well. Note that this is not a battery combiner but a timer to limit charging to 15 minutes of every 35, with 20 minutes between for cooling the alternator. As jcus said, it should/can bypass your existing isolator or combiner but I'd recommend keeping your boost relay as well.
Correction....I could be wrong about still needing the boost relay. Maybe the Li-BIM 225 replaces that as well by connecting the boost switch wire to the "Sig" post? Here's what the directions say for that post.
"Provides Emergency Start with Dash Switch. Optional power connection for existing
applications, and ground connection to allow Emergency Start of either battery"
I know that the Isolation Manager was Battle Born's recommended solution for anything more than 2 batteries. I probably should have done that but chose the DC-DC charger instead.
I am thinking running the boost wire to the sig post on the li-bim. Taking the alternator wire install on the chassis with the chassis battery and see how that goes. Not going to connect the ign at this time and see how it goes
Installed two more Battle Born batteries . BMV 712 monitor shows 87 amp use while running fwd ac in heat pump mode on inverter. Load is actually about 125 amps, but solar was supplying about 40 amps at the time. Hoping that on a sunny day, will be able to run down the road with alternator and solar supplying enough to allow me to run one ac without the generator, and not deplete the batteries. Unit does have a Micro Air Easystart, so no big initial load on inverter. [Victron 3000]
Jim will the alternator do the load alone?
In theory yes, the alternator should put out 160 amps, but as others have pointed out, it does get pretty warm at high outputs, so the less load on it, the better. I have removed my battery combiner, and now only rely on a upgraded [200 amp] boost solenoid to connect alternator to house bank. I figure that if I disconnect alternator for about 20 min every hour, the batteries will not deplete too much, and the alternator can cool down.
But would the alternator get even hotter since when you put it back on line it is going to have to make up for power that was used from the batteries and continue with the online load?
6 of those batteries will accept more charging amps than the alternator and solar combined can provide, at almost any SOC. They have virtually no float mode, so the full 50 amps each for 300 total will be called for as long as they are under 100%. And 300 is the recommended max. It's not enforced by the BMS. They can take much more than that. I don't think the extra load of the ac running should matter since the charging systems are already maxed out anyway. That's my understanding anyway, and why I added a DC-DC charger to limit the alternator load. Frequently switching the alternator off for 20 minutes should accomplish the same goal as the LiFePO4 combiner that BattleBorn recommends.
Thanks Bob, I have my alternator set at 13.6 volts, so will be interesting to see how it loads up when batteries get to 13.6. I will monitor temps and voltages on my first trip.
Interesting interview with Battle Born president. He even had batteries UL certified, to keep a forum member happy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIr6HYwoH_E
They're still not Gel...UL or no UL.
My Magnum charger float mode is also set to 13.6v I believe. When the it tries to charge them at say 80% SOC it runs about 75 amps. When I force the charger into bulk mode, it maxes out around 133 amps. So, I suppose your alternator should be putting around 75 amps into them. I know that my alternator was running a lot higher than that when measured at the batteries with a clamp meter. Well over 100. I'm not sure what the voltage is set at. Whatever the standard Foretravel Leece-Neville alternator is.
Yes it's probably me on the UL. listing. I cannot imagine a reason why I would not want every part I put in a flammable box with us in not to be independently tested for safety.
The idea the euro testing is accepted for insurance coverage and claims is nice theoretically but if the insurance company coughes on a claim do you have the money to hire legal help and engineers?
IF everything is UL on close inspection you are done.
No manufacturer installs non UL equipment. No store sells it to my knowledge. Yes I know amazon does. That's nice.
I was a Foretravel factory sales manager, no way I would take a 1% chance with anyone's safety.
Not that there is but the UL testing positively eliminates that.
Battle born sells both units. Choose for yourself.
I wanted a 3000 watt inverter made in USA with parts available versus a 2200 watt unit made in India with limited service.
Bob. You need new information sources, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but the ETL and UL listings are interchangeable and equally compliant for US NEC purposes.
As always, do what makes you happy.
Tim Fiedler
Gen-Pro.biz
630 240-9139
I assume you are correct. Did you read what the two actual euro tests that was shown on their spec sheet comprise?
One was a test of the power cord. The other one is a hot wire test where a 1800C heated wire is passed over the boards.
If no flames result or go out when the heat is removed it's passed.
If that has changed as far as tests that's great.
The UL test is 20? Different tests for various failures. Easy to find it if you look.
It's not whether the NEC accepts the ETL standards to me but are these parts actually tested/designed to our standards.
Read the two brands quoted testing.
Lots of this stuff seems to be political. We let let your stuff in if you let our stuff in.
The results here seem to show good quality.