Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: BillO on November 29, 2018, 08:57:29 pm
Title: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: BillO on November 29, 2018, 08:57:29 pm
Rather than resurrect the original thread (whose title can't be edited at this point) I thought I'd start a new followup.
After a delay for Thanksgiving, the coach was towed (a disaster worthy of its own topic) into the CAT dealer for evaluation and repair. Initial report is that the pressure testing showed leakage in the No. 6 cylinder. For me there is always some orientation confusion when talking to predominantly truck people, but it seems that this is the most forward cylinder in our set-up and indicative of more than a simple water pump or oil cooler issue.
They are now stripping stuff off the engine in preparation to remove it. This may be close to completion at this point since I didn't talk with them today.
More to follow.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on November 29, 2018, 09:19:35 pm
I cringe when I think of someone towing my Foretravel.
Interesting. Mine was a bad # 6, all the rest were fine. Head gasket looked terrible, but it was the oil ring in the end that was the issue, although the top of the cylinder was oblong, and the head gasket really looked like it could have leaked (which it didn't). But I did have a mild cracked head, although it wasn't using coolant.
Another FT 3126 is having the same issues with oil loss I had, and it seems to be #6. Number 6 in my terms is, the cylinder above the bell housing. It is actually # 6 in firing order
I can encourage you with this. I am all in love with my coach again, and I love my new motor. This pain for you is only temporary. When I look back, it seemed like the end of the world, now I barely remember it.
It also changed my attitude about our coach, and that is to not go overboard with it, just enjoy it for what it is. In the end, even with the cost of the new engine, you couldn't buy a coach as nice as what we have. Old, maybe a little old school, but quality unlike anything else, without a bunch of glitter and cheap electronics to go out. All the new coaches I see and work on, are just FT's on steroids, want-A-be's!
Lastly, ignore people when they say "Oh, those are throw away motors" Well they are not. And also remember, Cummings have there issues too.Cracked heads and blocks. Keep us posted. Chris
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: Caflashbob on November 29, 2018, 10:31:48 pm
Ah the drive is so good the problems fade away do they not?
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on November 29, 2018, 10:59:24 pm
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: BillO on November 30, 2018, 10:07:29 pm
Holt CAT called this PM to say they had the engine out and were proceeding to move external parts over to the new engine after evaluating them. Interestingly, they elected to pull the engine out from underneath but I wonder if that was simply their mindset from the beginning rather than necessity.
So far the have recommended replacing the turbo and the alternator which they claim broke during disassembly (???).
I'm headed up there Monday to have a look in the open compartment for any hoses that are rubbing to create potential failures down the road. Also will review recommended replacement parts for OK and go from there.
I'm not sure if they will bother to tear the old engine down any further than the already have to find actual source of leak.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on December 01, 2018, 10:52:13 am
Holt CAT called this PM to say they had the engine out and were proceeding to move external parts over to the new engine after evaluating them. Interestingly, they elected to pull the engine out from underneath but I wonder if that was simply their mindset from the beginning rather than necessity.
So far the have recommended replacing the turbo and the alternator which they claim broke during disassembly (???).
I'm headed up there Monday to have a look in the open compartment for any hoses that are rubbing to create potential failures down the road. Also will review recommended replacement parts for OK and go from there.
I'm not sure if they will bother to tear the old engine down any further than the already have to find actual source of leak.
I would imagine they chose to go out the bottom, because other wise the pan and oil pump will not clear the rear cross member coming out. If one has a hoist that can handle that, it would be another way to go. It was no big deal with mine, to install them once the engine was in.
I am sure they will, but I would replace all the radiator hose's. The numbers are in your manual, I found mine easy. Some are hose's that have to be cut into two parts to work in different places.
I chose not to replace the heater hose's all the way to the front, but right at the lower back of the engine the split off with T's, so I just replaced them to there. I also double clamped all the larger hoses.
And yes, I would rebuild or replace the turbo. They are $1600.00 exchange from Cat.Mine is a Borg Warner reman, it was $1000.00
If you don't have transynd oil in the tranny, now is the time for that too.
Your going to love your fresh engine. Chris
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: BillO on December 01, 2018, 09:44:10 pm
Chris,
I had already requested the replacement of hoses and belts -- did not know that these were listed in the manual but will check when I get there Monday.
The coach tranny had already been converted to Transynd which I replaced 3 years ago when I bought the unit. This may be another replacement since they were talking about pulling the tranny with the engine.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on December 02, 2018, 11:56:34 am
I had already requested the replacement of hoses and belts -- did not know that these were listed in the manual but will check when I get there Monday.
The coach tranny had already been converted to Transynd which I replaced 3 years ago when I bought the unit. This may be another replacement since they were talking about pulling the tranny with the engine.
Bill I was thinking about it. If they broke your Turbo, Cat won't take it as a core. Plan on another $600.00- $700.00 for that. When I thought mine was bad, they wouldn't take my Borg Warner rebuild as a core. They want a genuine Cat turbo core.My friend who works in the parts department, also warned me about some people cutting the bolts on the turbo with a torch and damaging the housing.That is a no, no too.
As far as your old engine goes, you will probably find out what was wrong with it, when the core charge comes into play. They ding you for anything broken or cracked in the block or head.
Not trying to bum you out, just preparing you for the worse. It was all a surprise to be.
Let me know if you need any help with the hoses.It is a bit confusing, because as I said, FT took one hose, cut it, and used it in 2 different places on the engine.They need to keep you old ones, so they can cut the new one's to match.Some of the new ones didn't come with a spring in them. I used the spring from the old ones. The info is in the service area of the manual. I can scan it for you, and email it, if you have any trouble.
As I said, in the end it will be all behind you soon, and you'll be driving your coach with a smile again.
Chris
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: John44 on December 04, 2018, 10:32:25 am
Not sure how a turbo and alternator can break during disassembly,sounds more like they broke them.There is no Cat brand turbo may be a Garret.Have replaced many turbos in the field and if you take the time it's easy.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on December 04, 2018, 10:49:54 am
Not sure how a turbo and alternator can break during disassembly,sounds more like they broke them.There is no Cat brand turbo may be a Garret.Have replaced many turbos in the field and if you take the time it's easy.
I agree about breaking them. By dropping the motor through the bottom, I can see breaking it and the alternator, if they didn't take them off the engine.I can visualize breaking the post's on the alternator too, not backing the nuts when removing. Just theory. My Borg Warner looks different then the Cat one. Also, the cat one say's "Cat" on it. Chris
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: BillO on December 04, 2018, 09:41:10 pm
Thanks for pointing out the existence of the hose data in the user manual.
I went up yesterday to find the manual and review what they recommend replacing. The parts guy said that the manual info would be big help in finding the hoses.
The turbo was not broken on disassembly, it is simply well-used and they recommended replacing, with which I agreed. I can't see any sense putting in a rebuilt engine and sticking generally beat up components back on it.
The alternator posts stripped from corrosion when they removed it. They are sending it out to an alternator shop to see if the posts can be replaced.
Like most OEMs CAT has a lot of parts that they don't make, but get from suppliers and rebrand. A CAT service center isn't going to go out and look for an alternative turbo when they can take one off the shelf from CAT.
They have also recommended replacing the injectors which, again, makes sense to me given the condition of the oil that was likely pushed through them. This includes new solenoids and huei (?) pump. I asked them about injector sensors which I thought I remembered from Chris' earlier post and they didn't understand what I was talking about.
The good news is that they don't see any additional core charges. The mechanic working on the job said the engine still turns over fine which is the basic requirement.
That said, this is getting expensive. In addition to the long block the recommended parts replacements and labor are going to run pretty close to another $20k.
However, in retrospect I think it better than the alternative. Sitting around in a hotel (which I have to evacuate with the dog and valuables every morning) and paying boarding bills for the cat while paying repair shop labor rates would likely have cost me more and given me a lot more aggravation. Also, I think that slapping a couple of parts in to correct an immediate situation just leads to another failure down the road in a less desirable situation.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on December 04, 2018, 10:29:41 pm
Thanks for pointing out the existence of the hose data in the user manual.
I went up yesterday to find the manual and review what they recommend replacing. The parts guy said that the manual info would be big help in finding the hoses.
The turbo was not broken on disassembly, it is simply well-used and they recommended replacing, with which I agreed. I can't see any sense putting in a rebuilt engine and sticking generally beat up components back on it.
The alternator posts stripped from corrosion when they removed it. They are sending it out to an alternator shop to see if the posts can be replaced.
Like most OEMs CAT has a lot of parts that they don't make, but get from suppliers and rebrand. A CAT service center isn't going to go out and look for an alternative turbo when they can take one off the shelf from CAT.
They have also recommended replacing the injectors which, again, makes sense to me given the condition of the oil that was likely pushed through them. This includes new solenoids and huei (?) pump. I asked them about injector sensors which I thought I remembered from Chris' earlier post and they didn't understand what I was talking about.
The good news is that they don't see any additional core charges. The mechanic working on the job said the engine still turns over fine which is the basic requirement.
That said, this is getting expensive. In addition to the long block the recommended parts replacements and labor are going to run pretty close to another $20k.
However, in retrospect I think it better than the alternative. Sitting around in a hotel (which I have to evacuate with the dog and valuables every morning) and paying boarding bills for the cat while paying repair shop labor rates would likely have cost me more and given me a lot more aggravation. Also, I think that slapping a couple of parts in to correct an immediate situation just leads to another failure down the road in a less desirable situation.
Good news The reman injectors are a great idea. The rest makes honest sense. I wasn't saying get a aftermarket turbo, I was actually saying get a Cat reman. I made the mistake getting a aftermarket. The genuine Cat one should be $1500.00 exchange.As long as your core is good. The injector sensor is this: 122-5053 1225053 FITS FOR Cat 3126 3126B IPR Valve Injector Pressure... (https://www.ebay.com/itm/122-5053-1225053-FITS-FOR-Cat-3126-3126B-IPR-Valve-Injector-Pressure-Regulator/132537331870?hash=item1edbd7309e:g:3rwAAOSw1URauXLA:rk:1:pf:0)
That one is a crappy import. A Cat one is $250.00
It controls the 2,000 lb oil pressure to the injectors, which in turn injects the fuel.
I am sure they are replacing it, especially if your replacing the HUEI pump.
I would be curious what weight oil they recommend when done.Please let me know Hang tuff, your almost there Chris
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: John44 on December 05, 2018, 05:33:33 am
Get a price on the alternator repair,if it's the original get a Delco Remy repalacement,much better then the Leece Neville,had my LN rebuilt but it did not last,the new Delco was cheaper then the repair.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: Caflashbob on December 05, 2018, 01:27:18 pm
Most alternators overcharge our use batteries. The large heat sinks of the oem and the adjustable voltage may be why Foretravel used them? The output needs to be 1/5th the battery bank capacity to charge most batteries correctly to avoid sulfation of the plates and loss of capacity IMO.
As Brett posted here I turned down my LN to 13.6 volts at the battery.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: BillO on December 05, 2018, 09:27:19 pm
Chris, The service writer showed me what they've planned for the oil fill -- Mobil 15w-40. I asked him about a thread here that suggested CAT recommended something lighter and his response was "the 15w-40 is CAT's recommendation".
My bandaid comment wasn't referring to the turbo, but to earlier posts about just fixing a water pump or oil cooler, cleaning things up and going on. I think that only full-timers can appreciate the fallacy of those kind of comments. It's one thing to have an engine lock up or crap out again when you can throw your pets and valuable in the car and go home. Quite different when you have to find a motel that will accept you and pets (as an aside it is costing more for the dog surcharge and the cat boarding than it is for me) and live with it a second time because of going cheap the first time.
John,
I thought about just getting a Delco replacement. However, in searching the forum here it seems that there is a good bit of confusion. One topic cited a Delco replacement that didn't work until the provider called FT and was told that the Delcos need to have a higher voltage. I didn't understand that, but I just didn't want to have to debug that through second and third parties in the middle of everything else.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on December 05, 2018, 11:18:27 pm
Chris, The service writer showed me what they've planned for the oil fill -- Mobil 15w-40. I asked him about a thread here that suggested CAT recommended something lighter and his response was "the 15w-40 is CAT's recommendation".
My bandaid comment wasn't referring to the turbo, but to earlier posts about just fixing a water pump or oil cooler, cleaning things up and going on. I think that only full-timers can appreciate the fallacy of those kind of comments. It's one thing to have an engine lock up or crap out again when you can throw your pets and valuable in the car and go home. Quite different when you have to find a motel that will accept you and pets (as an aside it is costing more for the dog surcharge and the cat boarding than it is for me) and live with it a second time because of going cheap the first time.
John,
I thought about just getting a Delco replacement. However, in searching the forum here it seems that there is a good bit of confusion. One topic cited a Delco replacement that didn't work until the provider called FT and was told that the Delcos need to have a higher voltage. I didn't understand that, but I just didn't want to have to debug that through second and third parties in the middle of everything else.
I personally gave up on the oil debate with everyone, So I would go with what they say. For me, I decided to take the mid road. 10/30, because of the Northwest and a new engine (break in), then when spring comes,one third 15/40 two thirds 10/30.
Here is my logic: Mechanic: "What is a HEUI pump?" I said a hydraulic pump. Mechanic: "What do you put in a hydraulic pump?" Me; Hydraulic oil. Mechanic "What weight is hydraulic oil?" Me 10 weight or less.
Personally, with a new engine, and cooler weather, 10/30 makes more sense. But in your case, they are warranting the engine.
Zero to 104 degree's. 10/30 5 degree's to 122 degree's 15/40
The reason is in a Cat, the thicker the oil, the more of an issue you can have with carbon behind the rings (read broken rings) Also, because of the HEUI system, (oil making injector pressure via a hydraulic pump), the more the issue with clogging the pump and injectors. This is what causes the Injection pressure regulator to have issues.Which I had I'll just leave that right there.
Cat oil, is made by Mobile. It's Devac Your making great decisions. You'll be on the road soon with a smile. Chris
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: BillO on December 06, 2018, 08:52:09 pm
Today's update:
Called to check on progress. They have all the hoses for the engine compartment (nothing back to the front-end heater, which is fine) and the engine has been reinstalled (service writer wasn't sure about the tranny). The alternator shop was able to replace the corroded posts so the original will go back in "as is" and I'll deal with replacement later.
Looks like they'll finish up tomorrow or Monday and then take it for a test run to ensure it doesn't blow up :D or have more minor problems.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: BillO on December 08, 2018, 06:28:43 pm
Got a bit of scare with call from the service writer mid-morning Friday to ask where the main fuses are. Seems when they tried to turn over the engine they got no juice to the dash, engine and other things. I directed them to the areas that I knew.
When I called back late in the day to see how they fared the service writer told me that the run solenoid had stuck but was freed up with a tap. He suggested replacing it to which I readily agreed. After researching here and several websites I'll probably call back Monday to remind the parts guy that the replacement needs to be a continuous duty solenoid and at least comparable or greater amp rating.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on December 08, 2018, 07:51:05 pm
Got a bit of scare with call from the service writer mid-morning Friday to ask where the main fuses are. Seems when they tried to turn over the engine they got no juice to the dash, engine and other things. I directed them to the areas that I knew.
When I called back late in the day to see how they fared the service writer told me that the run solenoid had stuck but was freed up with a tap. He suggested replacing it to which I readily agreed. After researching here and several websites I'll probably call back Monday to remind the parts guy that the replacement needs to be a continuous duty solenoid and at least comparable or greater amp rating.
Also, Cat wire differently then a Cummings in a FT. Took me a bit to figure it out. There is an addition on the wiring diagram. Took me a few to figure it out Chris
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: BillO on December 13, 2018, 10:00:02 pm
I finally got the coach back, along with a bit of a financial shock and a huge disappointment with CAT. The total bill for replacing the engine was ~$28,000. In addition, it cost me another $2K for hotel and pet boarding.
For that amount of money I also expected some kind of decent warranty. Instead, the CAT warranty is a single year for parts only.
They did note that the fault with the engine was a crack in the No. 6 cylinder, but not enough to generate a core charge.
I had planned to run the coach around the area for a while and spend the night at a local campground. However, some impending bad weather (ice storm) forced a change in plans so I drove further south about 60 miles. Things seemed to run well enough, but not much different than before this incident so I can't say I see any dramatic improvement.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on December 13, 2018, 10:04:34 pm
Well,hopefully it's behind you. Hope this warranty is good at ANY Cat dealer. Pretty slim warranty I must say for that kind of dough.Certainly doesn't leave you warm and fuzzy, and secure by any means. Cheers Chris
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: John Haygarth on December 13, 2018, 11:43:34 pm
My thoughts on that piece of paper (cannot call it a warranty by any stretch of my imagination) is an insult after that amount of time and cost. Not a good advert for Cat I would think. Maybe Brett can give you someone up the ladder to complain too? Sounds like a "back yard " operation more than a big company they are. Just my 2 cents. JohnH
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on December 14, 2018, 12:08:47 am
I know when I was considering a new (reman) Cat engine, the warranty was 1 year, don't remember the miles. But they were more then I could drive in a year. But I was under the impression it covered labor too if done by a Cat shop.This is beyond me that the labor is not covered. Chris
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: Olde English on December 14, 2018, 09:54:18 am
Bill, I tip my hat to you, if someone had handed me a bill like that I know that flashing blue and red lights would have been involved shortly afterward. I am well aware that CAT much like IBM seem to put a premium on three letters, but that price seems more like a mask and gun job. This saddens me on so many levels, As Kipling put it "you're a better man than I am Gunga Din "
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on December 14, 2018, 10:02:12 am
If you take your coach to a shop for an overhaul, the bill after everything is said and done, is going to be $25K-$30K. Do it yourself, you can save a huge amount but few have the facilities or experience necessary for a major DIY.
Bummed for you Bill. Hope the New Year is much better.
Pierce
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: John44 on December 14, 2018, 11:22:44 am
In observation of the past few years of overhauls and major engine troubles I have come to a conclusion,these are "million mile" engines only if the moon and stars are aligned and every maintenace procedure is done correctly,and then you have these oddball number 6 cylinder problems,how do you prepare for that problem?
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on December 14, 2018, 11:31:40 am
If you take your coach to a shop for an overhaul, the bill after everything is said and done, is going to be $25K-$30K. Do it yourself, you can save a huge amount but few have the facilities or experience necessary for a major DIY.
Bummed for you Bill. Hope the New Year is much better.
Pierce
I agree. The engine could have been pulled, cylinder sleeved, rings and rod bearing, new gaskets.Valve job to the head. I realize water went into the oil, but these engines are industrial grade, and can handle that. It isn't as though Bill drove it, and burnt it up. Simple cleaning of parts and inspection, put it back together.
It is sad, no one wants to fix stuff any more, just replace it. I did mine myself, it had basically the same issue, cost me $3500.00, plus I forced my buddy to take another $500.00 for helping me. I realize Bill doesn't have the means to do it himself, but a shop should have been able to repair it as I said above for maybe 10K, and made good money. I understand having a business means warranting your work, that is why they want to replace everything.But they are not warranting it anyway, so what would it matter.
I was told by a couple of people, these shops are just laying waiting for us. They know we have good credit or the money in savings to do whatever, and we are at their mercy once the coach is apart and in there shop.
Chris
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on December 14, 2018, 11:50:12 am
In observation of the past few years of overhauls and major engine troubles I have come to a conclusion,these are "million mile" engines only if the moon and stars are aligned and every maintenace procedure is done correctly,and then you have these oddball number 6 cylinder problems,how do you prepare for that problem?
Don't exceed 210 degrees, don't idle the engine for extended periods, cool engine/turbo down before shutting off, don't use the "override" switch on electronic engines, don't replace the air cleaner with a K&W or worse, change oil once a year with correct type/weight, know how to replace and keep spare belts in coach, don't count on the Allison to keep engine from overreving going down grades and keep your fingers crossed.
Helps to know the maintenance history before buying but sure not a guarantee.
440,000 plus on a 300SD with nothing done to engine or transmission. Not even a water pump. Sometimes it sits for 6 months without starting but starts instantly and runs like a clock. Looks terrible, needs paint and rodents nest under hood.
Chris, just read your post. Yes, shops are just waiting for us. Count your fingers after every handshake in a shop. Good for you. Your ability is rare now in a specialized world. Remember when everyone washed their cars on Saturday? Hate to say it but tent trailers behind a 4Runner are about the least risky way to see the country. Also, there is a lot to be said for the folks that have the front engined Foretravels with the gas engines. Costs a lot to fuel but no mortgage to take out if the engine needs replacing.
Pierce
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: kimosabe99 on December 14, 2018, 12:01:35 pm
I agree. The engine could have been pulled, cylinder sleeved, rings and rod bearing, new gaskets.Valve job to the head. I realize water went into the oil, but these engines are industrial grade, and can handle that. It isn't as though Bill drove it, and burnt it up. Simple cleaning of parts and inspection, put it back together.
It is sad, no one wants to fix stuff any more, just replace it. I did mine myself, it had basically the same issue, cost me $3500.00, plus I forced my buddy to take another $500.00 for helping me. I realize Bill doesn't have the means to do it himself, but a shop should have been able to repair it as I said above for maybe 10K, and made good money. I understand having a business means warranting your work, that is why they want to replace everything.But they are not warranting it anyway, so what would it matter.
I was told by a couple of people, these shops are just laying waiting for us. They know we have good credit or the money in savings to do whatever, and we are at their mercy once the coach is apart and in there shop.
Chris
This!! My part time boss is overhauling a Cummins N14 Red Top, in frame, for around $6500. This engine has around 1.25 million miles. Its not the first time any works were done but first major. My last big truck had a C-15 CAT, 550 HP and was at 850K miles when I got out of it and was going strong. Biggest shop visit was for injector tune up. I suppose this might be just dumb luck. Oil and all filters changed faithfully at 15K miles. Somewhere on my old work lap top, I have a listing of INDEPENDENT heavy truck repair shops that I kept in case of away from base breakdowns. If I can find it I will post it and members can use it to search for options.
Fortunately for me, my 8.3 Cummins, born on date 1991, is in decent shape except for piss ant leak in exhaust manifold gasket, #1 cylinder, that needs to be addressed.
Bill, I am sorry about the big CAT bill. I also hope the did an outstanding job and you get thousands of miles of trouble free service from your new engine.
jk
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: Protech Racing on December 14, 2018, 12:31:50 pm
I had assumed that the head and pan were pulled and the engine declared junk . Head gasket and piston were maybe the only broke items. But with out diagnostics how would they know? If it broke a cylinder wall, I doubt that the core would be sent back. Too bad there are shops that bill according to wallet weight . Maybe thats why I work hard for my customers and dont have a huge bag of cash. Just enough tho.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: kimosabe99 on December 21, 2018, 09:35:05 pm
I couldn't find my repair service list that had on my work computer. I did find this search outfit that works well. I tested it using the locations of the last three mechanical services and found the three small, competent shops that helped me out at reasonable prices. This is work done on Class 8 trucks. The big guy$ show up too but at least you have options on finding a shop that can do your work and maybe save yourself some CB.s Try it out and maybe bookmark it.
If you take your coach to a shop for an overhaul, the bill after everything is said and done, is going to be $25K-$30K. Do it yourself, you can save a huge amount but few have the facilities or experience necessary for a major DIY.
Bummed for you Bill. Hope the New Year is much better.
Pierce
I think that you are dead on -- especially for a CAT. Also appreciate your well wishes.
I agree. The engine could have been pulled, cylinder sleeved, rings and rod bearing, new gaskets.Valve job to the head. I realize water went into the oil, but these engines are industrial grade, and can handle that. It isn't as though Bill drove it, and burnt it up. Simple cleaning of parts and inspection, put it back together.
It is sad, no one wants to fix stuff any more, just replace it. I did mine myself, it had basically the same issue, cost me $3500.00, plus I forced my buddy to take another $500.00 for helping me. I realize Bill doesn't have the means to do it himself, but a shop should have been able to repair it as I said above for maybe 10K, and made good money. I understand having a business means warranting your work, that is why they want to replace everything.But they are not warranting it anyway, so what would it matter.
I was told by a couple of people, these shops are just laying waiting for us. They know we have good credit or the money in savings to do whatever, and we are at their mercy once the coach is apart and in there shop.
Chris
Chris, I think maybe you're thinking of a small, independent shop. An authorized CAT shop, at $150/hr, couldn't touch a rebuild for $10K. In fact, that was the labor alone to pull the old engine and put in the new long block. I believe that if you added up the hours starting from first wrench for removal to final test drive to temp that you and friend put in (including the hours for the outside shop to bore the block which CAT would do in house) then multiplied by $150 each it would likely exceed what I spent.
I chose to have them get the long block in rather than go that route because of the hassle factor. They could spend the two plus weeks getting that block in while I was still in the coach. It was two less weeks of dealing with a hotel, etc.
Yes it is a rip-off. CAT is notoriously expensive as Olde English noted (I could relate some interesting stories about freelance firms making good money finding CAT component suppliers, cross referencing the parts and selling end users catalogs of original supplier replacements), However, when I put it in the perspective of $110-120/hr at Foretravel or MHT it isn't any more of a rip, yet not many comment that the folks in NAC see us coming.
I think that, in general, it is the nature of along-the-road service rather motorhome or truck. If you want it back on the road relatively quickly (and can't do it yourself) you're going to pay for it unless you're a big outfit with service contracts all over.
I couldn't find my repair service list that had on my work computer. I did find this search outfit that works well. I tested it using the locations of the last three mechanical services and found the three small, competent shops that helped me out at reasonable prices. This is work done on Class 8 trucks. The big guy$ show up too but at least you have options on finding a shop that can do your work and maybe save yourself some CB.s Try it out and maybe bookmark it.
Jack, I gave your reference a try just for fun. The only places that showed up within 100 miles were T/A outfits and one shop in Dallas. My own experience showed T/A will not work on RV's by policy. They wouldn't even tighten a leaking hydraulic hose connection for me.
Appreciate your well wishes.
Title: Re: CAT 3126 Coolant in Oil: Followup
Post by: gracerace on December 23, 2018, 12:54:21 am
Bill So if it's a authorized Cat shop, not sure why there is no labor warranty for that kind of money. I hear what you are saying, but all my machine shop work was just shy of $1800.00 (our local Cat dealers use the same machine shop, they don't do any of that). All the genuine Cat parts , oil, coolant,hose's etc. was another $1700.00 and yes 50 hours labor at $150.00 is right at $7,500.00. That would be $11,000.00 total. At the $3500.0 I paid for machine shop and Cat for parts, they made their normal profit's. 3/4's of the $150.00 hour is all profit, because they don't pay their techs that. My machine work cost also included a $500.00 core charge for the cracked head. Working off and on, I had about 50 hours with my job, that included detailing the engine compartment and super cleaning and painting all the parts.16 hrs of that was RnR engine, most I did myself. And I am not even setup like a shop that does it all the time as a business. I also had to train myself as I went as I am not that familiar with what I was doing like a true diesel mechanic. My friend helped with assembling the main part of the long block,and helped with getting it back in. I did all the rest. Didn't mean to make you feel bad. If you are happy, and it's running good, it's water under the bridge. Merry Christmas Chris