Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Carol & Scott on January 22, 2019, 09:54:42 am

Title: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 22, 2019, 09:54:42 am
Pulled into the Pilot in Quartzite to refuel yesterday, and while refueling noticed a slow drip, - drip, - drip under the engine.  After refueling and taking on 90+ gallons we had a wet spot under the coach the size of a small paper plate.  Realizing that there are thousands of coaches are at the Q and probably all repair shops are busy I decided to make the 3 hour trek to my sister's and monitor the problem.  Upon arriving at my sister's a few hours later was still seeing the drip, drip drip while the engine was running.  Shut the engine down after we set-up and opened the engine compartment door and saw moisture on the right side of the engine and smelled diesel.  No drip, drip, drip when the engine is not running.

Will contact Northern Arizona truck repair to see if they can get us in.  Guessing have a small leak either going to the engine or returning to the tank.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: John44 on January 22, 2019, 10:04:57 am
Did you have filters changed recently?May be something you can tighten?
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: craneman on January 22, 2019, 10:06:45 am
You have a fuel filter, the fuel line from the primary filter to the secondary filter and the line from the engine to the fuel cooler in that area.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on January 22, 2019, 10:10:39 am
Scott,

I know you have a different Cummins engine, but I suspect the fuel line plumbing follows a similar path.  I recently had a fuel leak with the exact same symptoms.  Thread below might give you (or mechanic) a clue to one possible source of leakage:

SAFETY ALERT: C8.3 Fuel Leak (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=35104)
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Andy 2 on January 22, 2019, 10:35:30 am
Scott we will be back in camp Verde next week if you want to wait we can come over and take a look at it. There is a guy in cottonwood that might be able to look at it. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 22, 2019, 10:40:52 am
Thanks for your prompt responses. 

Yes the filters were recently replaced in Houston, but the leak appears to be higher and looks like it is near a metal elbow below the valve cover.

Andy - would like to take advantage of your offer.  Lets connect after you get settled in the Verde Valley. 




Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: wolfe10 on January 22, 2019, 10:41:53 am
Scott,

Can you post a picture of the leak source?
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 22, 2019, 10:54:48 am
Hey Brett - Will try, but hard to get an eyeball on it - hoses and stuff. 

Awfully cold outside this AM - 30F.  Will try to get a better look-see later today when it gets warmer from the top-side.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Sven and Kristi on January 23, 2019, 01:57:31 am
I recently replaced three metal fuel lines in the area described.  They can be seen from the top if you can access the engine compartment from under your bed.  Hopefully the fittings can be tightened.  This link should show the lines I'm referring to:  https://quickserve.cummins.com/qs3/portal/parts/option_detail.html?path=/qs3/parts/99/ii/06.03/ft22072-06
Cummins Quick Serve is a great resource.  You would need to register your engine # in order to find the correct parts.

Good luck
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Sven and Kristi on January 23, 2019, 02:19:28 am
Here is an amateur video from a mechanic that shows the fuel lines to the fuel pump, ECM then into the engine where it will deliver fuel to the injector pump.  These are the lines I replaced and is much better than the photos I took.  It is looking down on the engine from the top starboard side of the engine (back half if you are kneeling and bending over the pedestal.  The useful part starts at about 4:30 on the video.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8E9ddfKGrE
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Rich Bowman on January 23, 2019, 08:14:50 am
Scott,

I had a couple of fuel leaks that I tracked down.  With the leak that you have, you should be able to clean the engine and then start it and watch for the leak.  It takes a lot of twisting and turning with a good light.

One was on top of the engine where the metal fuel lines to each cylinder attach to the top of the engine and the other was at the other end of the same lines.  I also found that the spacer blocks (blue plastic on my engine) that keep the metal fuel lines from rubbing were missing in a couple of places.  I caught this just before the metal lines wore through.  They are very tangled as they go to the engine from the fuel pump.  Inspect them closely.  They should not be touching each other.  They are very stiff and won't move much but you can look for places where they could be touching/rubbing.

Hope this helps,

Rich
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: mark f on January 23, 2019, 09:23:28 am
If the leak is coming from the connection at the ends of the metal fuel injector line do not just tighten the connector. Usually it will not stop the leak if you just tighten it. If you loosen the connector first, then tighten it you will have better results.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 23, 2019, 09:48:22 am
Thanks guys -

Supposed to get up to 54F today.  Will take a look this afternoon.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 25, 2019, 03:16:40 pm
Pic attached.

Is that the fuel feed to the engine or return?

I torqued the fitting a bit and the leak partially moved from the engine fitting out through the flange fitting.  Can't see where the metal tube goes.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Protech Racing on January 25, 2019, 03:52:03 pm
Split line
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: craneman on January 25, 2019, 04:02:25 pm
Scott, looking at mine it looks like from above it would be an easy change out. Like you it is hard to see from the rear, but is a short metal line.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: rbark on January 25, 2019, 04:13:08 pm
Sven just did that line plus the others, maybe he'll chime in with which line that is.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 25, 2019, 04:47:45 pm
It looks like a short piece of tubing and is probably the fuel feed line.  Can see where it's attached.  Would guess it's connected to the  fuel pump.

The other line - guessing it's the fuel return, looks extremely corroded too.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 25, 2019, 05:03:30 pm
Fuel line to injector from the ecm cooling plate.  Now to find the part number and locate the part.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 25, 2019, 06:03:32 pm
After talking with Cummins the Part # is:  3161618.

Available from:  3161618 | Cummins Fuel Supply Tube | Diesel Parts Direct (https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/3161618)
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 25, 2019, 09:04:14 pm
Ordered part from Cummins.  2 day delivery.  Will be installing Wed/Thurs next week.

$45+/-.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: John44 on January 25, 2019, 09:20:27 pm
My advice on any nut and or bolt use anti-seize,can get at Auto-Zone.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 25, 2019, 11:48:44 pm
Any other thoughts or suggestions?
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Old phart phred on January 26, 2019, 12:09:45 am
Waiting on parts sucks, especially hoses that may be sourced locally. Learn to identify fittings, they may be AN fittings which may be sourced at local hot rod shop, along with cut to fit hose. Ask about Earl's or aeroquip. Or a local hydraulic hose shop, lay it on the counter, tell them what fluid it carrying, walk out the door 20 minutes later with a replacement. Maybe cheaper.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 26, 2019, 12:40:31 am
Thanks for the suggestion Phred.  Thought of trying to source local but decided to get the part from Cummins.  It has 3 or 4 - 90 deg. bends  so I thought I would play it safe.  I also have never replaced a fuel line before.  Looks like I should be able to make the exchange.  I also have a plan B if I get cold feet- Local RV service company is a Cummins Preferred provider - what ever that means.

We are parked in my sister's driveway for another week. 
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: DavidS on January 26, 2019, 09:03:36 am
Wont know until you try ... $45 is cheap for an OEM part from Cummins.. You are your own limitation.. now get out their an make it happen.. I am waiting on " we are up and running thread and I did it myself"!!

Go get em Scott!!!
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: wolfe10 on January 26, 2019, 09:22:35 am
Two suggestions:

Clean the area at both ends of the pipe VERY well.  You do not want dirt to get in there.  If there are dirty items above or around where you are working that could cause dirt to get in, either clean them or wrap them in plastic.

Start the threads by hand to verify not cross threading them. Do NOT over-torque them (Cummins should be able to tell you proper torque).
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 26, 2019, 10:11:37 am
 ^.^d
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Sven and Kristi on January 26, 2019, 12:34:31 pm
Scott, a couple of months ago a coolant leak (while away from home) brought my attention to the area and it turned out to be a pinhole leak in a rusted pipe.  I decided that I did not want to repeat the experience, especially with the nearby fuel lines.  Because it is difficult to change out any given pipe without removing others, I replaced all of them.  As far as the parts and numbers are concerned, I posted links to photos and part numbers earlier - I'm not sure you saw them.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: John44 on January 26, 2019, 12:56:04 pm
would definitely do what Sven said,replace all now,you won't have to later.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: wolfe10 on January 26, 2019, 01:01:59 pm
would definitely do what Sven said,replace all now,you won't have to later.

Agree, IF all are degraded.  If only one bad and rest OK........
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Sven and Kristi on January 26, 2019, 01:21:54 pm
In my situation, the pipes were all crusty with rust; it was a matter of time.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 26, 2019, 02:15:12 pm
The other line looks corroded as well.  Will replace this line now and replace the other line soon.

Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 29, 2019, 07:28:55 pm
Update -
Got the fuel line from Cummings Avondale today - looks pretty close.

After chatting with Coach net and Cummins we have decided to have Affinity Service in Prescott change the line tomorrow AM.

Met both of the "Diesel" techs and they understood what needed to be replaced and felt confident that it is not a bfd.  Shop-time est is 1 to 1 1/2.

I figured I could do it and decided to pay the $$.

Thanks again for all comments.  Seriously couldn't keep on doing this without your help.  :D  ^.^d
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Ted & Karen on January 29, 2019, 10:17:39 pm
Great news Scott- have them do a test drive under real operating conditions before you pay and leave the area.  Just my suggestion.

Cya down the road                      ^.^d
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Andy 2 on January 29, 2019, 10:54:46 pm
Good news Scott glad you figured it out 👍
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Old phart phred on January 29, 2019, 11:14:13 pm
Scott, mechanics or anybody else had to learn by baby steps. You can do it also and become more self sufficient, and this forum can probably help you if you get into a bind or advise you to leave it up to a hired tech. When time and physical abilities allow I would highly recommend taking some of these baby steps on a simple projects like hoses, belts, filters, etc. The satisfaction,experience and pride will build. You may make an mistake or two, but techs are not imune to that either as each machine is somewhat unique in some form or other.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: DavidS on January 30, 2019, 10:05:31 am
You can always call them after you try and fail..
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on January 30, 2019, 01:08:50 pm
I am also replacing the Fuel Line Return and the tube that runs from the fuel pump to the ECM Cooling Plate.  Parts are ordered from Cummins and will replace - myself - when received.

BTW - found the Cummins Fuel Flow Diagram an Barry's website.

Note:  As Caleb, the tech, started to remove the Fuel Line to the injector tubing, it broke near the flange nut. 

Cost for the tech to replace the tubing this morning was $115.00.  I feel well worth the $$$.

Cummings part and install.

Thanks again ya'll.

Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: John Haygarth on January 30, 2019, 01:32:15 pm
Glad you got that changed now or looks like it would have been a disaster waiting to happen on the road. I think  I will check mine as it is 2 yrs older than yours.
JohnH
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on February 01, 2019, 09:55:43 am
Replacing the other two lines today.

Should I use a "thread sealant" when I screw the other lines in place?
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: craneman on February 01, 2019, 10:00:03 am
Not if they are flare ends. Thread sealant is for pipe threads and Loctite is for bolts and nuts.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on February 01, 2019, 10:46:46 am
What do I use to torque to 18ft# using an open end wrench?
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: craneman on February 01, 2019, 11:02:30 am
What do I use to torque to 18ft# using an open end wrench?
It takes a crows foot to get the exact torque. If you have a vice put a bolt in it and torque it with a torque wrench and feel with an open end about how much force it takes. It really isn't that critical unless you over torque enough to strip it. You can bet most shop mechanics including me would not be using a torque wrench on line fittings.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: John44 on February 01, 2019, 11:04:26 am
Exactly what I was going to say.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on February 01, 2019, 11:06:08 am
Thanks guys.  😊
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on February 01, 2019, 03:08:18 pm
Replaced the high pressure fuel return line.  Had to bend rigid tubing to align the threads.

No leaks - yet.  😊

PITA -  A couple of hours because I'm not the sharpest tack in the box.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: DavidS on February 01, 2019, 03:37:29 pm
Replaced the high pressure fuel return line.  Had to bend rigid tubing to align the threads.

No leaks - yet.  😊

PITA -  A couple of hours because I'm not the sharpest tack in the box.

Well at least you are in the box...  :))  ^.^d
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: craneman on February 01, 2019, 04:13:45 pm
Replaced the high pressure fuel return line.  Had to bend rigid tubing to align the threads.

No leaks - yet.  😊

PITA -  A couple of hours because I'm not the sharpest tack in the box.
It gets easier to fix stuff as you learn how they work. Good that you did it yourself and saved some money while getting experience.
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Caflashbob on February 01, 2019, 04:48:53 pm
Offset crows foot and recalculate the torque wrenches setting to compensate for the offset. 
Title: Re: Fuel leak
Post by: Carol & Scott on February 01, 2019, 09:43:41 pm
Took me about 90 mins to realize that I could BEND the tubing.  :))