It's my turn to ask for some help. Our refrigerator bit the dust and the cooling unit is still under warranty from JC Refrigeration. After some good discussions with JR I decided to change over to the new 12 volt compressor cooling unit instead of the absorption. It is covered under warranty and is now on the way to me here in Yuma.
Does anyone know a good shop or mobile service in Yuma area that they would recommend to me for this change over? I have watched the video and realize that I do not have all the tools needed for such a change and that I am not comfortable doing it. Not to mention that Karen is 7 weeks out from her knee surgery so a project in our home is not a good option. One of the downsides of being full time is that sometimes I have to bit the bullet and hire work to be done. I am willing to pay for the install but I want someone experienced with refrigerators to do it. Any and all of your help is greatly appreciated.
Are you in Yuma now? If so you might ask around the RV park as there is usually someone that can do it, help you do it or refer you to someone that can do it.
Did JR have a recommendation?
Thanks T-man. I am asking around but also thought someone on the forum might have used someone good here. ^.^d
They just have a list of RV repair places but no experience with them. I have learned, sometimes the hard way, it is better to get a referral from someone who has had experience with someone. Not a guarantee, but better than calling blind.
Good luck with your new cooling unit We had our Dometic cooling unit replaced in Shipshewana in 2013 and it lasted until early 2018. At that point I replaced the Dometic with an 18 cu ft Samsung and the difference in space and cooling ability is remarkable. I really wish I would have converted to a Samsung back in 2013!
Hilco RV Supplies & Services treated me right several years ago.
Address: 190 S Avenue B, Yuma, AZ 85364
Hours:
Open ⋅ Closes 4PM
Phone: (928) 783-6671
What was the cause of the failure? I was considering making a trip to have mine replaced, but maybe not if they don't last more than a few years.
I don't really know. The flame was still normal as was the heat output of the electric element. The refrigerator simply stopped cooling as it should. The refrigerator section was perhaps the temperature of a wine cooler while the freezer section was perhaps the temperature of a refrigerator. Since the overall unit was 23 years old and the storage capacity (especially in the freezer section) was barely adequate for our needs--and even at its best an absorption refrigerator is somewhat marginal in typical summer temperatures the solution was fairly obvious.
Not sure what happened to ours. JR thinks there is either a blockage in the tubes or a leak- doesn't matter as it does not work right and needs to be replaced. I like the idea of the 12 volt unit as I don't need to run an inverter to power this. There are marine style refrigerators and living off the grid units using similar technology, but since my unit is under warranty I will update with the conversion from JC Refrigeration. This unit should use about the same power as a 60 watt light bulb so my solar set up and batteries should allow us to boondocks as usual. Time will tell. ^.^d
Hope it works well! Overall, with the high efficiency of midern inverters and residential refrigerators to me it only makes sense to switch to a residential refrigerator with solar power.
The residential refer installation and equipement can turn out to be very expensive. $10k
Please tell me how you can possibly spend that much.
Bill
David- there is no one way that is right or wrong, in my opinion. We are accomplishing the same thing- going electric instead of absorption. In my case, doing this conversion makes the most sense. I don't have to do any cabinet alterations, already have solar, have my 2 8G8D batteries which should be fine for my needs, and if not, my generator works well. My only cost since I am under warranty is the change over labor.
As our friend Dave M. always said- do what makes you happy. ^.^d
If you had oem parts in a late 90's coach you might need a battery temp full wave inverter. And a remote panel and installation and three or four new condition agm's gels and $2-3k worth of solar installed then the refer and install.
A auto gen start is needed plus probably a advanced control panel and a solar controller.
What parts you already have or if you roll your own would lessen the money.
100-125 amp hours extra battery discharge per 24 hours seems to be the norm reported.
Would recommend either lifeline agm's or mk gels.
If you run the gen 24/7 or travel pole to power pole the power useage is not as noticeable.
I purchased a heavy duty slider setup to allow mounting 2 more mk 8g8d's on top of my three.
Problem is the alternator and charger will slow charge that many batteries. Not the recommended 20% of capacity.
Neither will the alternator at 160 amps.
Slow charging can sulphate the plates in non gel batteries so my choice of Lifelines is the only agm's that can be equalized.
Most inverter/chargers do not have a dedicated program for Lifelines with the .2 volt lower voltage setting they need and most do not have the correct profile to equalize the Lifelines.
Magnum does.
Frankly for guaranteed 35 degree refer temps I use my domestic chest freezer under the coach.
60-70 amp hours rough extra consumption running the compressor on the chest freezer.
No cooling fan. Less door opening.
Foretravel is-45 has a 340 alternator and two inverters to charge at 250 amps and six 4d gels to run the coach and auto gen start for sure
Only Bob would spend $10K putting in a residential refrigerator. We put our Samsung in ourselves for under $1000 and used it for two years before adding solar and other changes, none of which were required for the residential refrigerator. We made those changes by our choice to increase endurance and off grid capability. Even with all of that including the residential refrigerator we came nowhere near $10K.
And like many we used Victron equipment, Bob's favorite hate mongering subject. Maybe that is why we didn't spend $10K. And ended up with a better result.
Humm, is it me or has this jumped clear off the rails? Just saying.
Bob, North Idaho RV
He has a place there and works all winter
208 660 4450
John B
208 640 0538
Both insured, both excellent, and highly recommended. Going to be less then a shop, both are mobile
Bob will be in the local "White Sheets"
Tell them I referred you
Chris
I'm well under 1000 even with the second alternator. Runs fine for 24hrs between charges of the 2 8D .
My residential was $800 labor for Parliament to install. and the counter depth Hair 33" wide was on sale at Greggs for $1,250 - Just over $2K for residential. Added solar later, but really don't freak out if I have to run a 12,000 - 20,000 hour generator a couple of times a day for two hours, or find a power pole. Other folks ever want to run the generator in the name of peace and quiet.
Different strokes for different folks. "Do what makes you happy".
I will interject that I have yet to hear someone on the forum say (gee I wish I had my abosrobtion refrigerator back" after putting in a residential. I also took out my propane 2 burner stove and went induction - I do run the generator when I use that for more than a few minutes if not plugged in. Got back a REALLY big storage compartment when I took out the propane.
Roger kept his two burner stove but went to a much smaller propane tank and put another bank of batteries in that space. It is a really big space when you take out that tank!!!
Yup it is off the tracks and into the ditch in a Flash. Simple enough to stay on topic for most.
IF you were a prepper in shaky town would you replace a running absorption refer?
Or like to dry camp in quiet desert areas that is so quiet that your ears ring from the city high background noise you are used to.
Or dry camp with friends with tents where the noise is objectionable.
Or where others are downwind of your diesel smells?
Having to run the gen several hours a day.
Nice that some here assume cheaper is better. Short term yes. Maybe. Long term? No.
Running non equalizeable agm's and not running them to float almost every day and/or not charging them at the 20% manufacturer spec rate for keeping the batteries from losing capacity is much more expensive long term.
Foretravel sold a matching system always.
It's an rv. Not a park model.
Original design to dry camp for several days with no gen.
Tell me again how the solar and batteries and inverter were free?
Takes a lot of gen run time or a lot of solar the replace several hundred amp hours used in a day.
Oh you do not mind the noise or smells or fuel use or gen maintenance. No problem.
If I leave the chest refer off in mild weather I can live fairly normally for up to three days. No gen run time. No noise.
But most do not live in shaky town. As a 5 year old I went through the 53 Bakersfield earthquake. Threw me on the floor. Woke up half way to the floor. Can still relive it like it happened to this moment.
Tried to stand up. Knocked me down 8.3. Last great quake.
Two to three weeks minimum to get food and water to so cal.
If your lucky. So the coach is walking distance. Full everything when parked.
My training is to not lessen what Foretravel sold new.
A park model is not capable of four season dry camping or extended use without re provisioning.
As far as Victron I wanted more than Foretravel sold electrically. Stock was a 2500 watt non sine wave non battery temp controlled inverter charger.
Call me old fashioned or stupid but a hard to service 2200 watt made in India cheaper unit is not my or any other manufacturers offering.
No program to run Lifelines which should be run with non conforming charging rates for much longer battery life.
Or gels to not be harmed by incorrect charging rates.
I told countless customers that "the mark of any rv is how it dry camps without running the gen on internal water.
Most who convert their coaches cannot dry camp for several days with no gen.
We and the Fores were rv'ers. No power pole. Internal supplies.
No paint as bushes damaged it. And it made the coach hotter in the sun.
Like I said no Indian made non serviceable components please.
Yes it's cheaper. And has a color tv to run it. That's nice.
My local high volume rv service places owner installed a replacement absorbation unit on his domestic side by side.
He laughed about installing a residential refer in our shaky town somewhat isolated area in so cal. No.
We understand the limitations. Most have no need or want for what we want/need.
$2k worth of long life new batteries. $2k worth of inverter. $2k worth of solar. Plus the refer.
Nice if you can do your own work but the parts cost is above.
Not buying non American non serviceable non spec parts. Period.
If you have more batteries can you charge them at 1/5th C? Or equalize them? Or did you reinstall what was oem on every Unicoach? Mk gels? They can take a lower charge rate without damage and do not need equalizing.
Sorry. A lot of rv'ers assume cheaper is better. Oh it does not last as long? And gave less service?
If someone posts a build where everything matches the original engineering or better I would love to see it.
Not knowing all this is one thing. Knowing all this and still doing the setup less than optimum is a different decision.
Almost universally in my experience if someone says "it's less expensive" I have learned to ask "what is missing? What corners did you cut?"
Just a purist. Not a price buyer. Had to fix too many poorly done rv's long ago.
If I was appraising most coaches I see I would deduct for non correct systems.
Way easier to sell and show if you can show prospective buyers everything is done correctly and can be shown.
Done this hundreds of times and used hundreds of coaches at random to go rving.
But my cell phone was on 24/7/365 for my customers. Still is.
.
Cut no corners and the phone never rings. The other ways cost too much repeat business.
Could not afford to not engineer my coaches sold less than perfect.
The frugal folks are legendary in the rv biz.
Countless stories.
Like the led g4 lights. The cheap ones died quickly in use. "But they were less money?"
Bob
I think I was in that same earthquake, I was 4 or 5 years old and lived in Shaffter Cal, my Dad worked at the cotton seed mill. My mom decided we would move back to Arkansas very shortly after the earthquake and been here ever since.
Small world.
I have recently heard someone rethinking his Residential Refrigerator install after spending some time boondocking at Quartzsite. He also was unfortunate and lost his previous coach to a fridge fire not a cooling unit failure but a faulty gas valve which had just been installed hours before.
Bob you can always boondock where there are no people. Here is a unit Built by Foretravel with the residential refrigerator, gas electric cooktop, diesel heaters and electric water heater. All in 1981 I can get the build number off it if you want.
I serviced one of the similar coaches to your 81. Drove it many times. Jack Carlisto's coach.
Installed a zillion extra 8's in the bays for him now that I remember and a set of Apollo tanks and a pressure washer.
Had forgotten about the residential refer. Hence the 4 extra 8d's. I think we put a 4400 watt ac alternator on the Cummins. And a giant marine spotlight on the roof.
Upsizing everything electrical to match the bigger bank and use of Lifelines for the increased capacity and the ability to be equalized or more gels would be better.
Dave, brads brother, added a fourth 8d to his coach and he posted it helped a lot.
I did buy the slides to build a additional battery box in the next compartment back to mine as the cabling would go through the wall. Inverter and air compressor are in the bay so sparks are a potential issue.
No the Victron is not no spark in its design. Or certification. Should not be where the batteries are.
Magnum mentions that they are not no spark certified. Big print on the manual.
Seen boat people put the Victron in a gas engine boats engine compartment.
Seen boat fires where the reason was unknown.
Need the UL listed marine cabling with the pvc coating to suppress fires also.
Been in the burn ward once.
My guru buddy either uses a no spark certified outback sealed inverter and/or a large battery box.
Poor Ted is still waiting for an answer.
Actually John he did get a few names etc that should work out.
Now to answer C bob's quote on the 10k cost on my changes to residential and solar. I did the fridge and AM Solar started the panel etc install then I put more panels on top and redid the wiring replacing the original sized wire with #2 copper for even better control of voltage loss,and put in new Lifeline AGMS. I have 4 8ds and while on trips of weeks or months my use of genset is about 8 hrs for total trip.I do go to sunny places but we are not tied to the tv (in fact hardly ever have it on) We do a lot of bbq ING and Ruth makes bread once a week in her Gas camp chef oven. In 9 yrs of coach ownership we have put on around maybe 50 hrs.
The solar install, batteries and res fridge cost me about $6k canadian and are working great with not one issue or regret.
JohnH
I know,just thinking they should start a new thread so those of us wanting to know about Teds solution find out.
Bob, You remind me of someone I used to work with. He use to brag he only paid full retail that way he knew he was getting his money's worth. ^.^d
Bill
John your 2000 came with a battery temp controlled full wave inverter? My 97 did not. 96's has only two batteries and no mounting rack for a third more or less the needed fourth
Actually I normally pay less than most here as I still have my old friends in the rv biz.
I just start at the "best" of any product and research the features and benefits changes as the price point drops to see if what I need can be produced for less money.
"Good, better, best"
Old rv's had poor electrical systems.
Over the next 30 years technology has fixed almost all the old issues.
Everything matches. Safer. Lasts longer. Gives better service. Better resale value.
More fun.
If you paid 20% less and it lasted half as long and quickly gave less service did you save enough to have been a good decision?
I am a high line buyer. But older. Bought a Lexus ls460 recently. 08 model with 54k miles garaged. Now rebuilding the wear items just like my 20 year old Foretravel. High quality but used.
How about spending 10 to save 5?
Lets see if I can help with the original question. Try to make the moderator happy.
I would look in RV Service reviews. There were a couple of places with good reviews.
http://www.rvservicereviews.com/StateList.asp?state=AZ
When you do find someone please do a review to help outhers find the good places and avoind the not so good ones.
Bill
Ted & Karen
In your post, you said you are getting the 12 v compressor cooling unit from JR. Then in reply #7 you say from JC.
1) which is it?
2) where are they located? website?
3) how does the 12 v differ from the absorption?
4) how much did the unit cost?
Thanks
Inquiring minds want to know
JR is the person who is in charge at JC Refrigeration in Shipshewana Indiana.
Glenn & Amy - hopefully this thread will help with some of your questions.
JC Compressor Units (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=33861.msg309717#msg309717)
Here is an update for everyone. The new unit with the 12 volt compressor is on the way to me now. Should arrive in a few days. It will replace the absorption cooling unit with a cold plate run by a 12 volt compressor ( think DanFoss compressor). No more propane , ammonia, hydrogen, etc....so no fire concerns.
This unit is sent to me under warranty since the absorption unit failed during warranty- no cost.
I am looking at several options for installation which will happen the week of 2/18 as I have family commitment. Will keep you informed about the change over, and how it works as we start using it.
Thanks for your concerns, ideas, and entertainment......................... ^.^d
Good luck with this project. I'm sure lots of folks will be interested to hear how the new 12v cooling unit performs and how much juice it really uses. Can you provide us with a link to this cooling unit maker?
JC Refrigeration | (https://jc-refrigeration.com/)
Converting our RV Fridge to a High Efficiency DC Compressor- 8x More... (https://youtu.be/Yte1V3CkDrw)
Here is the link from an installation of the 12 volt DC system from JC Refrigeration. It's a little long but very good in describing the product, differences from absorption cooling units, installation process etc...
Hope this answers some of the questions people are asking- enjoy. ^.^d
I watched the video and the temperatures they describe -- even with the new cooling unit -- are not acceptable. I suspect their door seals need to be replaced or maybe the airflow in the back of the refrigerator is inadequate. If they are using the original Dometic control board, that could be a problem too.
Thanks, Ted.
Very well done video.
Yes, Tom always does a great review/install on his projects. "Mondays with the Mortons"
Based on the power consumption data that have have been reported here it appears as if the the JC Refrigeration compressor conversion uses about the same power as a Samsung residential refrigerator and so it's difficult to see the advantage (in terms of boondocking capability) of not simply installing a new larger capacity refrigerator.
I'm seriously considering changing out my absorption fridge in the 2001 U270 36' so I think I'm limited to my choices if I go with a residential type unit. JC Refrigeration does offer the 12v or 120v option for the compressor.
As a newbie I also want to consider how the use may change in the coming years. At this point in our lives we will just take 2-3 week trips a few times a year.
What should I consider if I was to go with JC Refrigeration as to 12v or 120v compressor?
I know the solar question may come up so I don't mind admitting I'm at a total lost with solar and can tell you I have only one panel so I'm sure another coach upgrade is in the future. And I'm going to need a lot of help there!!!
If you do a lot of dry-camping, the 12 VDC version makes more sense, as the 120 VAC version requires the inverter to be on 24/7. No inverter is 100% efficient when operating and takes a small amount of power just to be on standby.
If dry camping is not a prime determinant, the 120 VAC is a good option.
I do not know the relative cooling capacity of each. That could be a factor in making the decision.
Douglas and Amanda's 120v JC conversion averaged just over 64 watts per hour over nearly 1000 hrs. (40 days).
JC-Refrigeration Conversion, Measured Power Consumption (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=34886.0)
JC-Refrigeration Conversion, Measured Power Consumption (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=35170.msg327673#msg327673)
This was measured at the refrigerator. If you include inverter efficiency losses (6-7 watts) and the inverter loads just to be on (depends on which inverter you have) that could add another 10-15 watts per hour, maybe more). The 12 volt version motor should use about the same amount of power, either motor has to turn the same compressor doing the same work in either case. There might be some small differences in efficiency between the AC and DC motors.
Our 19 cu ft Samsung has averaged just over 69 watts per hour measured over a couple years.
Average loads are just that. Loads while idle will be much less and loads while running will probably be about twice the average. Peak loads (short term on a warm start) can be several times the average. Be sure you size wiring for a 12v option based on maximum running loads plus at least 10%. Figure using the wire length to and from the refrigerator to the battery with 1% or so voltage loss. And be sure there is a fuse in the circuit close to the supply end.
Bos'ns' Corner - Wire Size Calculator (https://baymarinesupply.com/bosns_corner_wire_sizes)
The video mentioned above says their power use varies by 300% depending on outside temp. That has to be a function of refrigerator insulation and coach insulation. Their refrigerator and freezer temps are much higher than our Samsung and what Douglas and Amanda are seeing. 64 watts per hour is going to be right around 1500 watts per day. Their claim of 8 times more efficient is gased on the absorption refrigerator using 8,000 watts per day (333 watts per hour!) compared to their low end claim of 500 watts per day (21 watts per hour). Misleading at best.
I encourage anyone who puts in a residential refrigerator or one of the conversions to measure power consumption over as long a period as you can and report back. Making these choices, adding solar, adding batteries, understanding your endurance on batteries alone all depend on an accurate and realistic energy audit, understanding how much power you use in the way you use your coach. Others may use more or less but your choices should be made based on how you use your coach.
I will be waiting to see what Ted reports.
It would be very interesting to see a comparison of the efficiency of the JC Refrigeration compressors with the high-efficiency inverter compressor Samsung uses.
Remember that a big part of my decision to do this conversion is because the cooling unit that failed is under warranty, so the new one is no cost to me except installation.
We live in our coach full time and like to boondock, therefore the 12 volt compressor seems like a good option for us as we do not need to have inverter on to power it. We have plenty of power from our 500 watts of solar, generator, or plugged in at a campground and we use our power quite well during boon docking times. The only question that will be answered over time is how this conversion will work using our 2 batteries which are 5.5 year old gel 8D batteries. At Quartzite, I ran the generator 1-2 hours in the evening so I had plenty of stored power for the night. I had our furnace set on as Karen was cold and wanted heat. Running the furnace takes a lot of power but in the morning we were always at 12.4-12.5 volts, then the sun came up to do it's job charging us up again. If I get similar results with this conversion I will be very happy as I do not have the furnace on most nights, so the only thing using power would be the refrigerator. Also keep in mind that the ambient temperature at night is generally less and since we are sleeping we are not opening and closing the door. This should help in lowering power consumption at night. Maybe it will use less power than my furnace?? We shall see.
As Brett said, there is no right or wrong way to do it. Most of the decision process has to do with how you use your coach, how much power you consume, your battery bank, charging methods, and most of all, budget. My absorption unit worked well for us right up until it failed. ^.^d
Good point on the Samsung internal inverters efficiency.
I have most but not all the electronics needed for a residential refer future installation.
Having my buddy put them in coming up.
ME- BMS, ME-ARC, ME-AGS and a ME solar controller.
$1,500? Worth of stuff.
Then even more solar. Lots more money.
I intend to add more 8g8d's as they can be slow charged without plate damage unlike most AGM'S.
Or I would have to majorly mod the charging system to get the 1/5th C necessary to avoid battery damage to AGM's.
I would also like to add that the reason
WE chose to go with the JC conversion is because we have the cat condo access point underneath our refrigerator. Installing a full size Samsung is not an option as long as we have cats. We didn't want to have to manufacture cabinets around a smaller residential.
The 12V conversion was not an option at the time of our installation last May.
If the 12V compressor had been available, we might have gone with that. As it was, we were the very 1st coach to get the new 120 conversion for our type refrigerator.
I, too, am looking forward to hearing your reports about the 12V version. ^.^d
Exactly Amanda- we do what makes sense for our lifestyle. ^.^d
My heater draws a lot more than my Fridge (39W) . If the heater runs at 45* ambient, the batteries(220AHR usable ) are 12.3 after 10hrs.
Without the heat running the same volt reading takes 30hrs or more , just the refer.
Thanks Mike- do you have a residential Fridge or absorption?
Small resi . Look back at "what refer fits through the door."
The bottom line is how much power does it take to run whatever refrigerator you have to the internal temperatures you want. The 120v JC conversion and our Samsung us 65-70 watts per hour. The Samsung is almost twice as big and we do not have to defrost it. And our Samsung with a 5 year extended warranty cost less that the JC conversion kit especially after selling the Dometic we took out.
Whatever works for you is your best choice.
I completely agree! I know I would never want to go back to an absorption unit, and I would never again spend the cost of a new refrigerator in order to put a new cooling unit in an old box.