Coach has been mainly in storage
( plugged in ) for 18mouths , tried to fire up generator today and lifelines didn't have enough power to spin it over !
Now just considering options if I need to replace them .
Are the O'rielys AGM 8DAD still one of the best options.
Thanks for any thoughts , advice.
Best option is the ones that fit the budget.. lifeline or oriellys are great options
Just found receipt for lifelines and they are 5 1/2 years old , will ring factory on Monday to get a price, tried O'rielys web page but unsure which model other members had used / recommended?
My generator is started by the engine start chassis batteries, not the house batteries. What is the voltage of your Lifeline house batteries and what is the voltage of your chassis batteries? Your Lifelines may not be bad.
Gel as original equip
8G8DLTP | MK Battery 12v 225 AH Deep Cycle Gel 8G8D Battery (https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/mk-battery-12v-225-ah-deep-cycle-gel-cell-battery-8g8d-with-ltp-terminals-8g8dltp.html)
AGM Lifeline 8D
Lifeline 12v 255 AH Deep Cycle Sealed AGM Battery - GPL-8DA (https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/rv-marine/agm/111-and-up-amp-hour/gpl-8da.html)
Oriellys they offer the same battery with 3 different connect posts, this and T904 and T975 posts.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/fleet---heavy-duty-5000/battery-accessories-16452/deep-cycle---marine-batteries-17354/220f7dcd7121/super-start-fleet-heavy-duty-group-size-8d-top-post-battery/agm8d/4742645
You usually have to coach the counter people to look up the right ones at O'Riley's. Might be best to get the manager. Be sure you tell them to get you batteries no more than 3-4 mos old all the same date.
The only fool proof method I have seen since I started in 1984 with Foretravel is the now industry standard battery combiner to make absolutely sure the engine batteries are fully charged when needed and to not have them damaged in storage.
Anyone have another fool proof way? I tried all the others.
Probably what a blue sea 500 amp combiner is on all new coaches?
Replaced a full set of Optima red tops twice before the combiner.
Auto combines on charge. Auto disconnects on discharge. Either battery bank
Thanks for the advice, looking like my batteries are just past the 60month pro rated warranty. The O'rielys have the best price.
Interested in the blue sea 500a combiner , will do a search for any members that have done a write up on the install
Coach came with gels. Not Agm's. 1/2 the cycle life
O'Reilly PN AGM8D
Jimmy,
An elegant is somewhat expensive solution.
What are your objectives-- that will better allow us to evaluate whether this is a reasonable solution for what you want to achieve.
LSL Products TRIK-L-START 5 Amp Starting Battery Charger (https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Ultra-Trik-L-Start-p/trik-l-start.htm)
Ultra TRIK-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer (http://www.lslproducts.net/UTLS_FAQs.html)
That
first photo on the O'Reilly web page for the AGM8D battery with standard SAE posts has always been incorrect. The other two photos on that page are correct. Link below to all three versions of the big battery. If you order batteries, unless you specifically ask for a "non-standard" battery post, you will
most likely get the SAE posts.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/battery-accessories-16452/deep-cycle---marine-batteries-17354/220f7dcd7121/1979/ford/f-150?prodAttr_14418=8D
I have Oreilly AGM batteries already with the SAE posts, so the first would be right for my 97 295. My previous rv had the L terminals as I put new Lifeline 8Ds in it with new end connectors for the cables. As any other after market product, if you are not sure, best to consult with the retailer you are dealing with than tell them what you need.
When switching from gels to agm you might need to change dip switches on your inverter/charger.
Let me restate that: You WILL have to change dip switch settings (older models) or reprogram (newer models).
My engine batteries ran down by my mistake and the tickl charger blew internally as the power draw exceeded its output.
Green light still on. No output.
Went to a heavier unit after buying $700 worth of new optimaa
It failed also.
Another new set of batteries.
Combiner. Solar. Fixed
New agm's other than Lifelines CANNOT be equalized.
ANY capacity loss is non fixable.
Lifelines state a similar cycle life to the mk gels.
All others seem to be 1/2 the cycle life.
Wolfe
We travel to Europe each year and leave the coach in Storeage for 4-6 months, the coach is connected to power and I use a separate "battery minder " connected to the rear chassis batteries.
I had considered leaving coach connected to shore power, disconnect both battery packs and use a battery minder for each pack ! My objective is to keep both sets of batteries charged and in good condition whilst stored
Jimmy,
As long as both banks are connected to SMART chargers (lots of good ones with/without combiners, etc) you should be just fine.
This can be done connected/disconnected. Lots of good options. Not sure one is overwhelmingly better than another.
Our Xantrex'true charge-40' has been in our coach for quite some time, installed by Brett. Works perfect: watching it adjust itself is better than TV! Xantrex | Power Inverter, Inverter Charger, Battery Charger Manufacturer (http://www.xantrex.com)
Look at today's specifications for these batteries. There is not a significant difference in life expectancy (measured in 25% discharge cycles) between them. Here is MK's data sheet for depth of discharge life cycles for their GEL and AGM batteries as well as Lifelines and Fullriver batteries for the same thing.
A 25% discharge, which is generally accepted for longer battery life, gets you ...
MK AGM 8A8D @ 25% discharge has an expected 1900 cycles. 245 amp hr capacity at a 20 hr discharge rate.
MK GEL 8G8D @ 25% discharge has an expected 2100 cycles. 225 amp hr capacity at a 20 hr discharge rate.
LL AGM @ 25% discharge has an expected 2200 cycles. 255 amp hr capacity at a 20 hr discharge rate
LL AGM L16 6V @ 25% discharge has an expected 2200 cycles. 400 amp hr capacity at a 20 hr discharge rate.
FR AGM L16 6V @ 25% discharge has an expected 2300 cycles. 415 amp hr capacity at a 20 hr discharge rate.
FR AGM DC260-12 8D 12v @ 25% discharge has an expected 2300 cycles. 260 amp hr capacity at a 20 hr discharge rate.
There is no manufacturer's data to support the 2x life cycle claim for todays GEL batteries vs AGMs when used in a reasonable way.
Am I wrong to assume the Foretravel original charger is not sufficient to maintain the coach batteries when the coach is plugged into shore power?
If so , am I better replacing the original charger or disconnect the coach batteries and use an external smart charger
Jimmy,
According to the spec sheet at beamalarm.com, your coach came with 3 8D gel-type coach batteries and a ProSine 2500-watt inverter/charger. As long as the inverter/charger is functioning properly, and is correctly programed, then there is no reason to think it would not be capable of keeping the coach batteries fully charged when plugged into shore power. Many owners choose to upgrade their DC electrical system for one reason or another, but the stock equipment installed at the factory should certainly be adequate to the task.
Of course, you do need to provide a separate charging source (of some kind) for the start battery bank.
Chuck, thanks for the response, I assume the prosine is adjustable by layman?
Your Prosine is fine, but it charges house batteries only and not engine batteries. Unless you use the combiner switch (which is not a method I prefer long term) . OR install a dedicated smart combiner or the Tril-L-Start unit above.
Both the AGM and gel mk batteries require temp controlled charging and the AGM's for sure like and need the 1/5th of capacity charging. My understanding is the Gels are not as ,if at all, affected by a slower charge rate(like solar)
6 years ago the mk spec sheets showed a bigger gap in cycles than currently.
Their engineer then(2014) mentioned a change in plates and internal supports and connections I posted here back then. Seems to have worked well
Your 2015 and the current 2017 chart match and show a considerable change in AGM cycle life and a tiny bit in the gels.
Lifeline shows similar cycling to the mk gels. Seems mk/east penn has improved their products.
If you can always charge your batteries at 1/5 C,including solar, no one should have any long term issues IMO.
Remember lost capacity cannot be restored on AGM's other than Lifelines. Gels are basically unaffected by slow charging.
Every unicoach made has east penn gels in it new.
We are supposing the o'reilly's are the exact same product as the mk gels the chart references.
Maybe yes. Maybe no. Second line? Different process? Same test results when made as they fully discharge then recharge them in production.
No idea if the orielly's are done the same more or less other brands.
O'reilly's does not sell any gels for whatever reason.
hard to generate 1/5 th C from solar. Not needed with gels.
I borrowed two 9 year old gels originally from my buddy used in a electric bus conversion and never rotated and the cabling was on each end of the string so the end batteries did most of the work. The two centers had 85% capacity after countless cycles.
My buddy used to be an extensive lifeline user but he had warranty issues with them even if he removed them and individually equalized them to restore capacity. Not that old. Under warranty. They disallowed some claims. He took them to lifeline personally.
He finally switched to mk gels only. No issues. No reduced capacity. No calls. Happier customers.
Probably the same from Foretravel with Michelin's and Mk Gels.
No calls is good. Happy customers come back. "Never gave me no problems" was my favorite words.
My 15 year old heart freedom only charged at about 70 amps into the house batteries from contactor wear.
Most owners do not rotate their batteries and/or maintain their cabling perfectly so a battery that does not lose capacity from low charge rates probably makes the normal customer happier longer.
My buddy puts in xantrex power pro in almost all his coaches. Most customers look at the gauge to see how much power they have.
We here are nerds and retentive. He has maybe a small percentage of his users that know or want to know about all this.
So for general big coach use with heavy electrical draws and normal owners he only uses the gels as errors will not kill them as fast.
Lots of playing with batteries when he used the Lifelines. Almost none now.
He did say that the Lifelines are excellent batteries but still AGM's
He will not install anything other than mk gels or Lifelines
Every new coach made uses a combiner as far as I have been told,
Does not combine for starting as that covers up bad engine batteries.
X2 on getting O'Reillys brand when I talked to a local store sales person they said there was one in one warehouse and another in another warehouse in 2 different states. I told the person I wanted to order 3 with a close mfg date and he told me that wasn't possible! So I went to the local warehouse and told them what I wanted, salesman said not a problem and promptly ordered 3 AGM8D batteries. They came in a few days later and were all within 30 days mfg date--worked for me
Chris
The charts I posted are from today on the manufacturer's websites. Current information. Obsolete data is not relevant. The last Unicoach was built 14 years ago. Likely none have the original batteries. Everything built since 2006 has been a Nimbus or a Phenix or IH45 or IC37. Maybe a few odd special orders. The last Unihome was built in 1995.
"If you can always charge your batteries at 1/5 C,including solar, no one should have any long term issues IMO."
No charging system continuously charges your batteries at C/5. Not your alternator, not solar, not the inverter charger.
Unihomes were built 14 years ago. Unicoaches are being built today. Front door.
The chargers do charge at 1/5th C in bulk. Up to what the batteries will accept.
My three 8g8d's accept 110 amps in bulk charge.
The alternative charge, at least from mk or lifeline which are American made is either 1/5th C or 1/20 th C.
In my case my solar is slightly less than 1/20th C.
Remember I posted about the shorter life and non equalizable batteries when it comes around.
Done hundreds of battery change outs.
As has .foretravel.
We al! needed better so the gels were installed in thousands of coaches new.
Seems this is now how inexpensive you can get by with.
If your coach was a very long term "keeper" and the gels were the same price would anyone still buy AGM's?
So it's just cheaper. Not the same for less money. Different idea.
Equalized countless batteries trying to restore them long ago.
I have better things to do versus worrying about correct battery charge rates to restore the plates so that I do not lose capacity.
Same with my optima red tops. Cummins says the m11 needs 2200 amp hours to start.
The three red tops are 2,400. Winter takes more. So I cannot lose any.
Hence the combiner. Like all new coaches have.
If you never let the red tops run down they retain their capacity very well.
Seems a lot here NEED to pay less to keep up their coaches. God bless. Seriously.
I built a hundred old FTX Foretravels into new interior coaches for customers that could never buy a new coach.
Was great fun. Made a lot of people smile.
Made my store good money. Foretravel quit having to,support my store to the tune of $50k a month in 1986.
C.M. Fore told me that allowed him and the factory to pay off Oshkosh's chassis flooring credit line and spend the money to build the Unihomes a lot here drive to this day.
I have forgotten about the need to economize not because of cheap but for real need.
I found for my long term ownership of almost everything we own that the best quality lasted longer and gave better service during its life.
But what do I know? 35 years of high line rv's. Custom built a hundred new high line motorhome from various brands.
Bit me hard to,cut quality. Lost customers trust. Not a good business model.
But that's serms to be in the past here.
Inexpensive. Cut corners.
Go for it. I spent a lot of time to update my old info to new ideas. Much better for me.
Thank goodness the technology has changed. Fixed every issue I spent time on 30 years ago.
No way I am going back. Way too many bad trips. Too much time. Less fun.
Hey Bob, appreciate your posts, we"ve had many similar experiences and responsibilities, it all was fun.
New tech....? Next thing you know you'll have a few lifepo4 batteries! Yes technology is great, however a lot is to be said for old fashion experience.
And on and on we go. I guess only the very best batteries will do, never mind the $$$. Please excuse my attitude, buttt.
Seriously checked into li-ion. A perfect world would be a tesla powerwall.
Price and temp restrictions were drawbacks then and now.
I rarely exceed the temp limits in actually.
Without the actual needs for the amp hours the system and setup is a future project. Maybe.
Jack I had forgotten your similar experiences.
Miss my old friends. Dick Crandall. Susan Graham. Don Fults. Dick Martin. Don Kelley. Many others.
Guarantee people were competitors but friends. That's the old days in the rv biz went
While at the FOT ladies' driving school in fall 2014, James T. told us about the VSR, Voltage Sensor Relay, I (and many others in attendance) elected to have them installed right then & there, as I recall they weren't terribly pricey (like $200-300) and not difficult to install yourself. So far very pleased with the performance, seems this instrument gets the two battery banks to "talk to each other" and keep things charged up, & with all the time she's spent in storage in recent years, it works for me...doesn't hurt that I have two fairly new sets of the top grade of batteries available...(thank you, Paul Yasbeck, always gets the best). I also have the Xantrex 3000 inverter & have thus far not had any issues with starting her up when coming out of storage.