Foretravel Owners' Forum

It's about time for my first oil change since I got the coach. This is my first ever coach and I have been debating doing the change myself, especially after I stopped by the Cummins "coach care" lane at my local Cummins shop and got a price quote.. I change my own oil on my truck and jeep toad so I have the ability, I guess I'm just intimidated by the size of the motor and the fact I have never worked on a diesel.. I know it needs to be blocked up 1st and I assume the rest is like changing the oil on my truck.. I know I need a big bucket to drain the oil into and 36 to 38 qts of delo oil along with a filter. Another thing I don't know is where all the grease fittings are if I want to lube the chassis.. Any tips or points of interests will be greatly appreciated... The motor is an ISM450...
Hopefully if this goes well next on the list will be coolant change and system flush.

Thanks in advance
Keith

Keith, when I first got my coach used these guys. They come to your house or campsite and do everything. Nice thing is, you can get under coach and watch what he is doing and note the grease points. They know Foretravels well. After that, you can do it yourself if you want. Tech actually told me Foretravels were his favorite coach.
RV Mobile Lube - Home (http://www.rvmobilelube.com/RV_home.php)

Not sure on yours but on the 8.3 I do not have to use blocks to change engine oil.

No reason you can't do it.  I take my time and do it all in a morning. 

You do want to use safety blocks.  You don't need them for access but, I don't get under mine without them.  Without them, if you get an air leak, the coach will come down and you don't want to be under it.  Very small chance but not worth the risk to me.

I use two 24 qt oil drain containers from Tractor Supply.  Easy to put a cap on them and take the oil in for recycling.  Put a drain valve in the first time and it gets even easier after that.  The filters are not easy but not terrible to reach.

There is a lube point diagram in my owners manual.  Make sure you read the Forum about lubing (or not lubing) the brakes before you or anyone else gets under the coach with a grease gun.

Rich

Changing the oil / filter & lube is no big deal, similar to your truck only bigger. If you have the time and ability, you will save a lot of $$$ through the years if you do your own maintenance. NOT for everyone, dirty job and difficult to access some things. I choose to do my own service and repairs here at home on my schedule in my spare time. Most shops are reputable and trustworthy, some not so much. If I do it, then I know that its done and done correctly.
I would not advise you (or anyone else) to lube the air brakes unless you fully understand how to do it the correct way. Again, not difficult but there is a right and wrong way to do it. Also MUST use the proper grease.

Go for it......... if you have questions, there are members here that a able and willing to advise you.

Keith,
In the back you will need to grease the drive shaft slip joint and U joints. On the front it is similar to what you are familiar with on any vehicle. King pins, ball joints, and some coaches have a fitting on the steering wheel u joints. As has been stated leave the brake calipers alone until you read and understand the 4M disc brake book as to how to lube the calipers and slack adjusters.

Be careful not to strip out the drain plug on your M-11 when you remove it. Some of the drain plugs were too long resulting in the magnet in the drain plug causing particles to fill the root of the thread. If you work the plug back and forth rather than force it out you will be fine. Adding a drain valve will help the next time. I like the No spill compact system but there are other brands out there. https://www.nospillsystems.com/store/part-finder.cfm

Mike

How not to do it...I knew a guy who used a "blue boy" sewage unit to drain the engine and genset both and then dropped the handle over the hitch ball on his toad and pulled it 5 miles down city streets to the recycle station. Never had an accident but we always held out breath until he came back to the campground

Pray a gorilla instead of a grease monkey didn't tighten up the filters :o

Ditto on safety stands. Also chock wheel. Did my C8.3 for first time last summer. Year before had to abort because previous "pro" at Cummings shop over torqued drain plug. Local Cummings shop had to drop pan to fix. I installed a permanent Futo drain valve, it had once again been torqued rather tight. I was astonished at the amount of oil to pre-fill filter, nearly a gallon. My owners manual helped with lube points, left brake calipers alone. Filter on C8.3 takes a very large filter wrench, largest NAPA stocked. I sent oil sample off to Blackstone Labs, plan to keep doing that for engine and generator. Once you do it the first time it will be a lot easier next, but good to get under chassis. You may catch other issues as you lube. Would have been great not to do it solo first time, but it's not rocket science. Much oil to be captured and recycled. The Tractor supply suggestion is good advice.

You can do it, and do it correctly with confidence, safety first. Also allows you to look around for other things that might need attention, for instance I had some wiring that had come loose and may have caused trouble, so stuff some cable ties in your pocket. PO had my coach lubed at some joint, when I got it home (1400 miles later) I discovered the tech must have used the differential vent as the check point and had to drain about 2 gallons of  excess lube out of the differential, good news is my axle and pinion seals are still sealing great.

Would definitely get the drain plug upgrade.

Do yourself a favor and read the posts, buy a couple of necessary items and it will be fun. Otherwise, you may make a huge mess and never want to do it again.

OK, buy a quick drain for your engine, a bunch of one gallon freezer bags, thin HF gloves, rags, a sharp punch and away you go. Naturally, you need the oil and filter as well as some dirty clothes.

Once you have everything in place and have done the safety stuff, pull the top off the oil filler and tape your vacuum cleaner hose to the filler. Turn on the vacuum cleaner (no, it won't ruin the vacuum cleaner) and then pull the oil pan drain plug. No oil will come out, it just will suck a little air in. Thread the quick drain into the pan taking your time as not to cross thread the drain as Cummins have aluminum pans and the thread is also aluminum. Once tight, remove the vacuum cleaner. Take the sharp punch and with at least a gallon container below, puncture the bottom of the filter. With the container in place below, remove the punch. Now, you will have saved yourself a huge mess as nothing should be spilled. If you loosen the filter, oil will pour down the sides and WILL make a mess even if you have a plastic bag around the filter. The big difference between changing your car oil and the diesel is the nasty black color and how hard it is to get off things once you spill. And I've had plenty of spills.

With the quick drain in place, you can fill several smaller containers like gallon milk, anti-freeze, etc. Easy to start and stop the flow without spilling a drop (in theory).  :))

Best to do this with the engine warm but not necessarily hot. To make things easy the next time, read the directions on the side of the filter and don't add an extra quarter turn. Use engine oil to lube the oil filter gasket a little and away you go.

So, you have not made a mess and will never again have to worry about stripping the oil pan threads. The only down side is that the quick drain may stick down a little and could be damaged. Some oil pans have the drain on the side at the bottom so not a factor.

Use a felt maker to note the mileage and date on the side of the newly installed filter. Nice to note how many gallons the engine took somewhere. The engine will get oil pressure and fill the empty filters in a couple of seconds so I don't prefill them.

Check for leaks and you have only spent about $100 total (for conventional oil) instead of $$$ at the shop plus a lot of shop guys install filters like they install lug nuts and it's hard to get them off the next time.

I'm sure some Cummins operators will want to add something that I have forgotten.

Pierce

I'd like to have one but for that reason,  or that some road-kick might break it off and empty the oil pan.  I thought about making some type of roll cage affair to protect it, but haven't done it yet.

Look at the No spill compact. It is only .030 thicker (with the cap)  than the OEM oil plug.  There is one member that had road trash hit there No Spill plug and damaged it but it didn't completely fail.

Mike

I have been trucking 38 years.  I don't pay anyone to do something I can do myself..  Changing the oil is nothing. Just on a larger scale.
I want you to think of something.  Don't change your oil change your way of thinking..  Put a bypass oil filtration system on the engine.  Something like an OPS system. google it  Stop changing the oil and start taking oil samples and let that be your source for changing oil.  Oil doesn't wear out it only gets dirty.  There are over the road trucks that have driven hundreds of thousands of miles with out changing the oil.  how would you feel about going 300,000 miles with never changing the oil?  It's possible.

You can install the system yourself.  You just run an oil feed from the turbo and then a return to the oil pan, a 12 volt hook up and your in business.  Pull a oil sample every 30,000 miles and that'll tell you what to do or what not to do.  If you are close to Louisville, Ky. the last week of this month go to the truck show.  You can learn so much there. people from every aspect of trucks and truck related stuff.  RV are trucks. LOL
That's my 2 cents worth.  Good Luck

I use the FUMOTO oil drain plug.  You can get them on Amazon

The M11 - ISM11 engines use 38 qts of oil so some big containers are needed.  Getting rid of the oil is the hardest part for me.  Raise the coach on safety stands makes it easier.  Give it a try.

T-MAN,Fumoto has a right angle plug designed just for that purpose,put one on our 8.3,but my plug is on the bottom of the side.

Quick drains that don't stick down seem like a good idea. View at: No-Spill™ Systems Oil Drain Plug – Official Site (https://www.nospillsystems.com/)

Philip, bypass systems are great. The big difference between the trucking industry and RVs is the type of use the RV sees. While the OTR truck is usually underway, the RV sits 99 percent of the time and is moved, started, driven very small distances so condensation along with acids builds up. Modern oils have additives to counteract this but only on a limited basis. I'm always moving our coach to work on it, move it off the pit so I can work on something else, etc. That's why I don't mind shelling out $100/yr for an oil change.

If I drove the coach commercially, a full synthetic oil, bypass filter, sampling would be great. But sampling ever 30K is several years for many RVs. Too long to wait for an engine that sees only intermittent use in my opinion.

I'm like you, I never pay for something that I can do myself. But, the first time anyone does a big diesel change, it's a bit daunting and nice to have someone to hold their hand on the initial change. While you and I plus others on this forum comb their hair with gear grease, others come from insurance, medical, sales backgrounds and the idea of a filter installation, etc are major projects to them.

Pierce

And for the last 20+ years, I have changed my own oil in the coaches with the standard drain plug.  No problem!

Yes, and from your background as service manager, you also comb you hair with the same gear grease that I use.  ;)  I'm just thinking of several posts in the past where newbies have cross threaded the drain plug and had to get towed to a shop. I just did a plug change on a Toyota Tacoma with the deep and long reach plugs. One seemed frozen and after about 15 minutes of gradually getting it to move plus lots of penetrating oil, it finally came out but brought lots of aluminum thread with it. Someone overtightened it years ago and when the other 5 were changed, no one was able to remove the over torqued plug.

Pierce

Our style of disposing of used oil is to add to the cost of changing our own oil by buying and 'donating' Lowes 5-gallon covered pails. Easy to pour used oil into pails, cover and take to the nearby Walmart auto service center. Easy Peasy...

And I just recycle by using an old coffee can and funnel to pour the old oil in the new jugs.  Put them back in their 6 gallon case and return to Walmart.

Talked to some friends in the gas compressor business lately and believe it or not there are still companies out in the Carlsbad
area(way in the boondocks)that drain 100 gallon plus of oil on the ground,yes it's illegal but they do it.

I change my own oil and find it relatively easy to do. Our engine has a shutoff oul drain valve (not sure of the brand--installed by previous owner). I use a plastic box (sold for under-bed storage) that easily fits under the engine & then pour oil back into the gallon jugs the new oil came in. I always feel better about the maintenance I do myself.

Here's a tip with the box,use a 55 gallon plastic bag,in case of a leak and easier to clean the box.

I am just waiting on my oil report to come back before I change my oil. I bought a small mortar box at Home Depot as a oil pan and had a old plastic 2qt pitcher I use to get the used oil back into the empty oil containers to recycle.  I have changed the transmission oil before and it wasn't that big of a job. The hard part is sneaking the picture back into the house. ^.^d
Bill

I bought a 24 qt oil drain pan/container from the local O Reilly's, it slides in nicely under the oil pan, has a place to put old filters to drain. Then I take it to the store and drain it in the appropriate tank. FYI when putting the the drain plug back the trick that I was taught was to turn the plug/nut/bolt left till it dropped into the threads then tighten, it stops cross threading.

Thanks for all the great advice..  got a great offer today from a friend that has access to a pit with one of those catch pans that has a funnel on a pipe that raises up to close to the drain hole... woohoo! Got a fumoto drain valve a couple of weeks ago. Now I gotta get the oil and figure out what filter I need, looks like a fleetguard LF14000 filter is on it. Then schedule some time at the pit. At least the first time will be easier for me to check it all out and get the drain valve in...

This forum is a great place! Thanks to all!!!

Keith

Where do people dump their used oil in states like WI when the lakes and rivers freeze up?
(It's a joke!)

Down the toilet?          (also a joke)

OR, you could burn it in your stove!

Turn Your Waste Oil Products Into Home Or Shop Heat The DIY Way - Green... (http://www.greenenergyjubilation.com/turn-your-waste-oil-products-into-home-or-shop-heat-the-diy-way/)

When I was a kid, we used to use the old oil to kill the poison Ivy growing on the trees or phone poles. Wouldn't be caught dead trying that now.

You'd be appalled if you saw what they dump on the ground in the oilfield,offshore is pretty clean,one drop of oil makes a noticeable
spot.

Great idea to install a drainer valve on M11 aluminum drain pan. We found Fumoto much longer than Femco Compact, possible causing that drainer to be the lowest point on the engine, with risk of something hitting it.

Berry, yes, once you pull the OEM drain plug, how do you stop the flow and if something slips? It's all coming out. And if it's hot? The Femco Compact plug looks hard to damage.

Pierce

I dump my fresh oil in a 5 gallon pail. Use a cheapo hand pump form Tractor supply, or Hong Kong freight (harbor freight).

You can throw old oil out in Idaho where we live into the trash. Big mistake. Trash truck decided to crush in front of my house/driveway. Need I explain more?

I have a 55 gallon drum. My friend takes old oil to burn (legally) at his shop

What is the drain plugs size on an m11?

I don't understand the problem. You use a drain pan that is big enough, you pull the plug and let the oil run out. I want it to wash all the sediment and gunk in the bottom of the pan out when it drains.
Here's a tip for when you drain hot oil(the recommended way). Get some cheap cotton gloves to where under your rubber gloves. This will protect your hands from the hot oil.
Bill

Old oil on the skin can cause cancer.  I've owned a couple repair shops and had several mechanics I knew get skin cancer from it running down their right arm.  I too was one that changed my oil for a long time, no longer.  Truck tire shops that change oil and filters do a great job and earn their money.  If cost is a factor for your toad, Walmart can do it as cheap as you.  And yes, I assume all made an error, and moniter accordingly.

A good practice!  Stripped or cross threaded drain plug threads seem to be a common concern - hence the interest in the permanently installed "quick drain" devices.  Aluminum oil pans with minimal surface in the tapped drain hole is a recipe for trouble unless reasonable care is taken.

And, if the M aluminum pan threads are stripped, not major deal:

Engine Drain Plug Insert (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/engine_drain_plug_insert.html)

You can learn to do it Keith and do a far better job than some kid "diesel tech".. I run 10 diesel trucks and cringe at the thought of some "tech" fooling with something as important as oil. I wouldn't allow one under one of my trucks or coach.

I also use the "Fumo" drain valve so that I have some control over the flow.  I use two 5 gallon containers (restaurants probably use them  for their veg. oil) that fire retardant used to come  in.  Because of the weight of 36-38 gallons, I would suggest two containers.  When I do the change, I put the containers side by side in a cement mixing tray (Home Depot) to catch spills and the valve allows me to shut off the flow when I go from one container to the next.  You can check to see if your area has a hazardous waste collection site or take it to  your nearest auto parts store, if they are set up for large volumes.

I'm reviving this thread to give Pierce some props. This is one of the more underrated tips & tricks I've stumbled across on the forum. It made switching to a no-spill oil drain kit super easy. Thanks  ^.^d

Thanks Eliott!

Good to have a HD filter wrench, not the rubber strap wrench most the parts stores sell. The PO or a shop may have over tightened the filter and the strap may slip before the filter comes loose. The type that take a ratchet, breaker bar or adjustable wrench work the best for oil, fuel or a spin on air dryer element and take only a little effort. NAPA has one that gets good reviews for less than $8 or chose one from Amazon for $20+.https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7769017?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&campaign=GSC-Filtration&campaign_id=6478904302&adgroup_id=121544424384&adtype=pla_with_promotion&gclid=Cj0KCQiA14WdBhD8ARIsANao07jZUWnk9P4Sa-ZSVlO18pQckKNF6W6CcMWMpuUBDOZh0C8vlJ2jomkaAuorEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&

Lube the rubber filter gasket and then tighten according to the instruction on the side of the spin-on filter. Don't go "that little extra" as it won't leak.

None of these are my original ideas but picked up from other sources and just put together. I have been covered with black diesel engine oil in the past and don't want others to suffer the same fate. ;D

Pierce.