Want to improve the exterior appearance of our coach,
First question would be, what type/ brand of buffer works best
Second question, any recommended "polishing" product?
I could not find anything already posted
Thanks
David
This is what Extreme uses
Check out the attached Cindy's write up on how she kept our Gel Coat looking like new. It's all there from soup to nuts.
Thanks Barry, Cindy and Dick
That at least gets me headed in the right direction
I have s lot of buffing ahead
David
Last time I was at Xtreme, Rance used a product called Aqua Buff;
Aqua-Buff Compounds (http://fiberglasssupplydepot.com/Aqua-Buff-Compounds.html)
I bought some, but haven't had a chance to use it yet. A novice user may be better off with a random orbit buffer like the one from Porter Cable, as it is much harder to accidentally burn through the gel coat vs a traditional buffer, IMHO.
Don
a full body paint coach is completely different, I'm not sure what you have?
I use: Gel-Gloss RV GG-64 Polish and Protector 64 oz with a Porter Cable industrial buffer with sheep head. The Porter Cable has enough torque that it doesn't slow down while buffing.
I do the whole thing top to bottom, stem to stern 2 times a year. I apply the Gel Gloss by hand and try to remove any Haze seen in the surface. Buff when dry.
Have considered using the same stuff Rance uses but I know how this works so I am staying with it, Been using it since my boat days.
I used 3M cutting/polishing compound and the Porter Cable orbital polisher when I did my 97 U320. Worked great!
We use the Zainobros.com products,works for me been using them 20 years.
Sorry I did not mention that the paint is the original white, just the same as it came off the factory floor
Is it white PAINT or white GEL coat? Big difference. OE was gel coated fiberglass.
Is there a VISUAL way of knowing whether one has paint or gel? My files show a color chart, but no info what application it is.
Any good paint guy could look at a coach and tell if the OE gel coated FG has been painted. Same as could be said for someone knowledgeable being able to spot a repaint on a car. Been there, done that.
Rance gave me a bucket that was near the end of its shelf life when he did the headlights and step.
Mike,
Unless repainted, you have a gel coat. Before you can start polishing your coach, you have to determine the condition of the finish. If it has a gel coat and has been stored outside, even a shop buffer is not going to bring it back. I tried buffing but went to a HF jitterbug (air) with 3000 wet/dry with a tiny water spray every thirty seconds or so. This produced a nice shiny surface. A slow speed shop buffer with a foam pad and either new school chemical compound or old school rubbing compound will bring the shine almost to like new. The OEM gel coat is rock hard and difficult to damage with a buffer. Because of this, a super fine wet or dry paper is the ticket as the scratches from a coarse paper can prove very difficult to remove later.
Buffers: I have a Milwaukee shop buffer spinning at 1400 RPM. Also an old 1250 RPM Sioux. These are heavy buffers and will just about dim the lights. I do use quite a bit of pressure but keep the pad moving. They work great for restoring most any kind of headlight or taillight with a plastic cover.
A really good body shop buffer costs a lot but frequently can be found used on Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace for pennies on the dollar.
Never purchase a 2000 RPM or faster buffer. They can heat and possibly damage the surface in seconds. Low speed is the ticket here.
Restoring the shine IS going to be a lot of work so do a little at a time. A lot of work!
Pierce
As Pierce says it's A LOT of work. Takes me about a week of on and off to buff and wax the coach. I buff once a year wax 2 times, more on the front for bugs and bay doors for hand prints.
It's a project that's on my list as well. I've used those 3M products on my last coach (SOB), after wetsanding due to the amount of oxidation that was present. It was a two week project on a 37' coach, and lots of beer.
3M has a new product out for gelcoat, and I was wondering if anyone has tried it yet?
Introducing 3M™ Gelcoat Finishing System - YouTube (https://youtu.be/IEU6MbK_Jcs)
The front bumper area seems to be the first to dull and need the most frequent work. The gelcoat seems to be a different quality on our GV's front cap and oxidizes faster, plus seems softer. When the front bumper is badly oxidized, it takes a lot more work to get the bugs off.
I use the same compounds as seen in the top photos. Works well.
Pierce
So I'm assuming that as we are "buffing" the gel coat you will need to stay away from the decals. Are there any tricks to doing that, like blue taping them or... staying far away and doing the close up by hand. I doubt that you just buff right over them.
Maybe captain obvious can help me out here.
Using tape works well and should be done. Two inch tape should be wide enough for any mistakes. Our decals were shot, especially on one side so I removed all of them. Took a full day. The worse they are, the harder they are to remove.
P
Speaking of a lot of work to keep gelcoat looking good, Cindy continues to tell me how MUCH easier it is to keep our painted coach shined up. Car-wash soap, water (change often), microfiber, wipe dry and red bucket. When necessary, touch-up with her favorite high quality "Klasse All-in-One" non-abrasive cleaner/polish.
Cindy has saved hours and hours since having our coach painted. The clear coat is so good that after 8 years it continues to look like the day it left Xtreme and with mainly just car-wash & water. Money well spent. Painting the roof with one-step gritted paint also makes keeping the 'difficult to keep clean' roof clean, also much easier with a couple of buckets of car-wash & water. And keeping roof clean, keeps the sides of the motorhome clean.
Better quality car-wash leaves the coach with a slick shiny polymer surface. Doing one 3-4' section at a time, washing, turning rag, and drying immediately with microfiber towels.
Each bucket has a (cut-down-smaller) Grit Guard on the bottom to help keep dirt out of the water.
I learned, the hard way, of course, why so many folk store their coach indoors down here in the 'Deep Desert'. For full-timers, that's impossible: our decals, after six years, are just about shot on the nose and heading out on the sun-side. I've tried every product, talked to the installer, talked with 3M and they all give me the same runaround: "They will not last long in full sun, whatever you apply." Of course the shade side is fine, but anywhere I get sun is starting to (and has) failed. So I guess, 10 years is the life expectancy? BTW, I have new paint/ gel (also done in 2013) that is doing fine. I'm not surprised to see so many coaches that have the 'Prison Bus' look. The installer said he'd re-do the nose (something about the angle makes it the worst) for $250.00. Not bad, but, that would buy a lot of Jamesons! ^.^d
I've spent a lot of time studying our new home, and at first I thought that the diagonal black marks, on what remains of our decals, were "art." After a couple of just right morning dew visits I realized that the metal frame had worked as a heat sink for the ink on the decals and what I see is the frame. That frame. One of the reasons I jumped on this RV.
My Xtreme paint job still looks like new so I have never buffed it. I use Wash Wax All after washing it. For the cars and boats I have a DeWalt professional variable speed unit with soft start. Slower speed is better. If you have never used a buffer before a random orbit unit will work best for you as it's easy to burn the finish. Look on YouTube for videos on how to do it. There are a few tricks you need to know.
Keith
I see those on the rare occasions we get dew. Like Brett told me, "If you don't see them, you are in BIG TROUBLE!
Best method, in my opinion, is to have it done this first time by professionals that know what they are doing and have done it before. After that it is up to you to maintain the glossy exterior.
I have found that one pays for experience one way or another.
Yes our coach is original white with the original and not in great condition stripes, so I assume it has the quality gel coat finish.
we have booked it int Xtreme go November 1 but thought I might give it a bit of a shine to get it through the summer.
It sounds that by the time I get the time to work on the exterior it will be too hot put the necessary effort into it and I should let Xtreme do it, and then keep it up.
After all I want to be away week ends enjoying good food and cold beer, a Foretravel is designed to leave the back yard on summer days off.
I like nighthawks idea. By the time one invests in the "pro" quality buffers and such. Your likely to be about on par with having it done up by a pro. Then maintain using a much cheaper orbiting polisher and a good layer of wax.
But then again, Some like the challenge of restoring it on their own.
I know it would have been a wash had I just spent the money on fuel to go somewhere to have my wheels polished. Took me two days $100 in supplies (electric drill and pads) Then some major league sore back & hips & tennis elbow. But the wheels looks ace now.
"I should let Xtreme do it". They don't do the buff and shine as a service last I checked. Xtreme will send you down to Precision Detail on University in NAC. Precision does a fine job, it was $1300 when they did ours, probably still under 2 CB.
What ever it costs here, Mexico will be about 25% as much. Paint too.
P
I'll do like Mr. Miagi,get a couple of "Daniel Sans" and wax on wax off,or as Pierce says,"Jose Sans"
Is there a place in Mexico close to the border that you know of?
Is it safe down there?
Probably still under 2CB's for a buffing.
Boy was I off in my thinking about how much it may cost for a buff. But I often am off on the cost of coach stuff. I need to start adding one or two zeros. :))
There are lots of folks that will shine up you coach for $400 or so. Precision does a complete fluff and buff detail. Precision spent three whole days on our coach. They washed it, compounded the roof (needed it) and the rest of it and then waxed and polished it. They polished all of the aluminum awning arms and awning covers. They cleaned the insides of all of the bay doors. The cleaned and painted the insides of the wheel wheels. The did the tires with 303. They cleaned the wheels, caps and lug nut covers (no polish on the Durabright Alcoas). They cleaned all the windows. They even cleaned all of the bay door handles grooves with a small brush (tooth brush).
It is the difference between an automatic car wash and a full on detail shop. You get what you pay for. It was good for us.
Unless you deal drugs, it's much safer than here. No kids shooting each other in school, drive by shootings, etc. Our trip last week was close to my 100th time down since I was 14 1/2. Have never heard a shot, lots of firecrackers though.
Yes! If you want to stay on this side of the border, there are a couple of shops in Algodones (Los Algodones) that have excellent reputations. They will come over to the U.S. and give you an estimate as it's right on the border. Do a Google search plus there are YouTube videos on their work. Here is a video of Navarro's Paint Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACwiiwoINdI If interested, I suggest you give him a call for buffing prices.
For a bit of a vacation in a Mexican city on the beach, Puerto Peńasco is one hour from the Lukeville border with an excellent overnight before crossing at Organ Pipe Natl. Mon. They come to the RV parks to do the work. Figure about $175/wk for the RV space. Anytime you cross the border you must have Mexican liability insurance. I purchase a driver's license policy for $100 is good for a year and covers US$335,000. PM for details.
Glenn just came back from an extensive trip in their coach. Contact him for his take on everything.
Mexico paints a good percentage of our airline fleet. Our plane badly needs paint and the cost in California is about $13,000. While we were in Lake Chapala last week, we went to Aero Club Chapala and looked at their paint jobs. Google Maps: Report Inappropriate Image (https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x842f38b251a820f3:0x55b1a667a58de6b1!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4shttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipNlaCZjNjpyu9wqYl_kKscD2h8maKW8Z5823XbM%3Dw426-h320-k-no!5saeroclub+chapala+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e10!2sAF1QipNlaCZjNjpyu9wqYl_kKscD2h8maKW8Z5823XbM&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiPiev4sNzhAhVOlKwKHTrTAMkQoiowE3oECA0QBg) . About $3700 total for a strip and repaint.
They build and paint the planes at this really small airport at the edge of the lake. Photos are of a couple of RV aircraft they built and painted.
For anyone considering retirement where the weather is perfect the year around, restaurants are inexpensive but outstanding, big ex-pat population and inexpensive but excellent medical/dental facilities, this is the place.
Pierce
I was at FOT last year (Nov), I called precision out for an estimate to polish and detail my coach. He was there within the hour, and the entire detail would have been exactly what Roger described. But it was far from 2CBs, he wanted 4.5CB, so I passed of course.
For many of us on a fixed income, $4,500 is astronomical, especially on an older coach. As the years go by, Many of us can't do as much as we used to and when faced with prices like you posted, we are faced with deferring the work, paying but no longer being able to afford some other things we enjoy or finding an alternate way of getting the job done without breaking the bank. Yes, it's easier to just pull out the card but with a little "thinking outside the box", getting the work done for a reasonable amount can be even more rewarding plus add a little adventure to one's life.
Pierce
I agree Pierce, I've done some wet sanding and polishing in the past, by I'm not a pro at it by any means. I'll keep searching for now, and may end up doing it myself after I remove the vinyl decals.
I suppose price depends on the condition of your coach.
Looking at the pictures - RV-12? DO they contract build them too or just paint? Nice work.
US EPA regulations, workers compensation insurance and US labor costs, rent, etc. contribute to much higher US costs to do this work.
Sadly, this paint kills people if proper protection not used, hopefully the over the border shops don't scrimp there. What I saw on the beach at PP was SCARY! to the person painting, plus it was painting in the open air on the beach, no way not to have dust/grit in the clear coat.
Looking at the video - differences vs Xtreme obvious - they mask most of the coach in the video, extreme removes everything - ladders, awnings, windows, lights, etc. Xtreme has a high tech paint booth which would reduce the amount of dust in finished product vs. home made paint tent made out of plastic. Finally, it may be customer preference, but paint scheme is pretty basic and "lineal"
That being all said, for most of the coaches represented on the forum, a $30,000 Xtreme Full Body Paint is not economically practical. (of course what about a luxury motor coach is economically practical.....) While I was underwhelmed with the quality of work at Rocky Point (Puerto Penasco) with regards to "paint on the beach" service there, this type of shop and cost makes a ton of sense for the $30- $70K coach, especially if you are looking at a 3-5 year ownership horizon.
Agreed, I was just taken aback as to how far I was off in thinking what a buffing would cost.
I'm sure the condition has an affect on price Roger, but it's not like I'm bringing them a 1984 winne 😂 The drivers side of my coach took most of the sun, and may need some wet sanding first, but not 2.5CBs worth.
I'm sure your 01 was much in better condition then my 99 without a doubt, but it's coming along and I love it.
I have had many collector cars over the years and view my 95 FT U320 the same way. It is not new and I had one before but these have a soul. I will wash and wax and maybe new decals but a new total paint just seems too much to me!
I agree Nigel, there's another member on the forum that got new graphics put on by Bayou Graphics, they're in Houston I believe, for a little over 1CB. He said they did a great job, and they even removed the upper and lower decals for that price. I believe it was a 99 or 2000.
They're on my list also...
Houston Fleet Wrap | Vehicle Wrap Houston | Fleet Wraps Houston TX (https://www.bayougraphix.com/)
Tim,
They build them for themselves with several other models seen in the Aero Club video. Not sure if it was the standard or quick build kit. They appeared to have all the right masks, etc.
The guy that I work with here is probably the leading specialist for XXX airplanes in the whole world. He sprays Emron all the time but until I came along, he just used a regular mask, no suit, no air supply for breathing and all in a small room that the wings fit into. Unless someone belongs to the EAA and works as a team, I expect most shops stateside that shoot car or airplane paint with Isocyanates don't have the full needed protection unless forced by OSHA. My friend still won't spend the $$ on a suit.
In Mexico or here, the amount of stripping, taping, types of primers, paint dictate the cost for the job. I've seen some OK jobs on seats, etc here and in Mexico. I wanted the seats to look EXACTLY like the OEM vinyl Ultraleather but with a little heavier duty material. I carefully went over the stitching, folds, pleats, etc and came back each day to check the work. When done, it was even better than I had expected. This avoids the disappointments. There are shops for Foretravels that have done enough of them so they know what the owners will expect but along with this knowledge goes a high price tag. Hey, if you want all the ladders, awnings removed, the Algodones shops will also do that. It's part of knowing what to expect and communicating it.
So, if you want a good job, get involved, very involved. If you want an airline quality job like in Monterrey, Mexico with huge hangers, state of the art equipment, etc. resulting in a perfect job or an beachside repaint for little money, it's your decision. Just take the time to come up to speed on everything involved whether here or there. It's just not that hard to spend a few hours and study the subject. I always research as much as possible but also listen closely to others for their input. No need to reinvent the wheel.
As you say, rent, regulations, cost of labor, etc all add up to what the shop charges. But when the cost of living is much less in that location, it's usually possible to stretch your $$ pretty far. If the shop owners live in McMansions, you have to pay for their lifestyles. If they live in more humble abodes, the prices reflect this.
When we had a big sailboat built in Taiwan, we could have just taken the stock boat the way it was designed. We opted to have very intricate dragons carved on all of the doors. The chart table was also not exactly as I wanted it plus I felt the water tanks needed much more bracing in order to not come loose in rough weather. The carving on the doors cost $14/ea additional and the other charges were minimal. I had seen other boats done this way and took advice when I could find it. I then communicated to the builders exactly what I wanted done. In the end, everyone was happy. They only thing they would not do was replace the damm Perkins engine.
Pierce
$400 will get your moneys worth of compounding and waxing. Buffing is not the same as a full detail. Price is not either. Do what you want.
Another thread that took a left turn.
Marine 31 boat care products, boat detail products, best boat wax (https://www.marine31.com/marine-31-boat-care.html)
Marine31..great stuff...Gelcoat polish and Gelcoat Wax and Sealant...
Hans