See photo for metal shavings on the front wheel oiling bearing magnet. Is this amount normal?
The bearings, races and seals were just replaced 2,200 miles ago. The oil quality looks good.
First thing I would do is call the shop and find out how good he cleaned everything,if that is from 2,200 miles ago you have a problem.Should be no metal.
Agree......trouble ez a commin.
The oil quality might look good as the magnet took all the "metal flake" out of suspension. I would talk to him plus call other shops that do this kind of work. That much metal might be found in a transmission drain plug magnet after many thousands of miles. If the parts were really clean, I would not expect a new set of inner/outer wheel bearings to generate this many shavings in many thousands of miles let alone 2200 miles.
This this the bearing you were recently having a problem with?
Pierce
Excellent work checking it. ^.^d ^.^d ^.^d Most would have waited for a failure.
I'll send you the password for viewing my travel slides from the last 70 years. :D :D :D :D
Pierce
Need IMMEDIATE SERVICING (replacing of both bearings and races).
Good thing you checked it. Why did you have it out after only 2,200 miles? Were you having problems?
Should read "The bearings, races and seal . . ."
I'd go to a different shop and source the bearings and races myself. There are different quality levels for bearing specified by precision. That and I'd replace the cleaned plug and check it again soon.
When in doubt go to the source for information.
Precision Tapered Roller Bearings | The Timken Company (https://www.timken.com/products/timken-engineered-bearings/precision/precision-tapered-roller/)
SKF is another name I trust.
Tapered roller bearings (https://www.skf.com/group/products/bearings-units-housings/roller-bearings/tapered-roller-bearings/index.html)
Happy reading.
According to axletech, this is normal, especially during break-in.
https://www.axletech.com/at-admin/resources/analyzing-contaminants-on-magnetic-drain-and-fill-plugs-v1-002.pdf
The metal filings should be removed whenever the cap is removed.
I also asked Red Tractor for his advice.
I'll also jack the axle, spin the wheel and listen for unusual bearing noise.
What kind of a front wheel bearing cap has a magnet? Is this in place of our red plastic Stemco plug?
I am not aware of a magnet in the front Stemco hub.
That is not normal at all for a front wheel bearing. The link is referring to a differential axle bearing where gear wear occurs. That metal had to have been left in the hub when that front bearings and races were changed. Probably not a major issue as the front taper bearing are tough. and now most of the metal has been captured. I was a heavy equipment mechanic in the Operating Engineers for 22 years and never found that kind of metal after changing bearings and races. I always flushed the metal out of the hubs on a catastrophic failure. Not necessary on just seal and bearing changes.
I'm with Barry on this one,where exactly is this magnetic plug and how big is it?????
That post from that bearing maker does not pertain to that bearing.
For the rest of the world, some additional explanation regarding gears. Hypoid gears are defined by mathematics that need to realized in the real world, so there is some wearing in needed in practice. Same thing for spiral bevel gears, so there are some fuzzies that are flushed away by the lubricating oil.
Ball bearings, roller bearings and tapered roller bearings may have "fuzzies" left from the grinding process but not on any bearing I'd buy.
FWIW, Chrysler Corporation developed "super finishing" in 1939 to combat Brinelling of its product's wheel bearings when being transported by rail car. Removing the fuzzies from the race grinding process eliminated the transport damage.
Lots of bearing grades. Usually not that much more to move up a couple of grades. Bearings in skate boards and inline skates are a lot more expensive than you would think they would be.
Just an idea: Wheels Mfg Sealed Bearing Grades (https://wheelsmfg.com/technical-help/bearings/sealed-bearing-grades.html)
Pierce
The skate board people are willing to pay for angular contact bearings because they can feel the difference in stability. I've never stayed on a skate board long enough to find out for myself. Once upon a time I did order a $20 bearing, and when asked relied that it was "only and idler." After THAT bearing failed, not having lasted very long I had to admit to my mistake and promise to never ever try to save the company money that way again.
Using old school terminology, the lowest grade angular contact bearing we purchased was ABEC 7.
FWIW, the French company Wirth & Gruffat used precision tapered roller bearings in their drilling spindles. Lead time on those can be 6 months.
I did two things:
1. Jacked the front right axle and spun the wheel: No bearing noise.
2. Wiggled the tire in the X, Y and Z directions: tight as a drum.
I witnessed the bearing job, done by a seasoned, trusted professional. The spindle, races and bearings were cleaned with a pro shop (lint-free) rag and cleaned with a pre cleaner prior to assembly. Then clean gear oil was added.
See photos of:
A. Hub seal assembly. The round cap has the magnet.
B. Receipt for parts. They are from a pro truck shop: FleetPride and are made by NTN (Bower) and Timken.
I'll check for metal in a few hundred miles, but I doubt there will be much more metal. I wonder if the bearings needed to "Break-in" to their cages / holders?
I appreciate this forum's advice.
But was the hub flushed out? The rotor assy.
In case of an engine failure or an engine block being bored, I was always taught that cleaning solvent would not remove all the small metal filings and the block needed to be cleaned with Tide or another HD detergent to remove everything. Then I remember all the trouble Ford had trying to get their pushrod 427s to last 24 hours for the Le Mans race. They blew up one after another until they constructed a ultra sonic cleaner large enough for the blocks to fit in. Even after the normal cleaning, they would still get a teaspoon full of particles after the ultra sonic did it's work. We all know how successful the big Fords were for many years after that.
Several good big rig wheel bearing posts online. One failure was traced to "counterfeit" bearings being used.
After any failure leaving metal particles behind, it's good to really make sure every crevice has been cleaned out so absolutely nothing is left behind. Just seems strange to me that new precision bearings with chrome or hardened surfaces would leave that many metal shavings in the magnet.
Pierce
Precision bearings don't break in, they wear out. That being said, 5, 50, 500 miles is a sound game plan. That is to say, check for metal at 5 miles, an additional 50 and so on.
The magnet is there for a reason. We operate in the real world..pragmatic solutions are more important than the theoretical perfection of impossible-to-obtain cleanliness.
If it were my wheel, I'd wipe it off and check it in a few hundred miles. I (meaning I did it myself) just replaced my front wheel seals. I preloaded them too! (there's a thread about that)
Anyone know of a magnet plug that fits where our red plastic Stemco plug fits??
Yes on washing hot tanked blocks with tide immediately after getting it home, then rustoleum immediately as the iron rusted
Another tip I got from YouTube is to buy a powerful button magnet and periodically rub it on the sight glass. If it picks up metal particles, you have a problem.
Were these wheels changed from Hub piloted to stud piloted?
Noticed that the hubs have the tabs broken off.
I don't know what brand of axle you have but on Rockwell steering axles, the spec is 0.001" to 0.005". I can't tell the difference without putting a dial indicator on the hub. Here is an excellent video (in 3 parts) on the entire process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8-XL4E4m7o
He is working on a tag axle but the process is the same; just the specs change.
TOM
Traveler,mine look the same way,just how it's made,we have the red cap style cover.
The stemco man mentions twice the legally required measureable clearances.
The clearance induces a small dead spot in the steering, a small preload eliminates that dead spot
For what it's worth, Google is my friend.
Stemco Magnetic Fill Plug brings up:
1696356-4195367-4195Sentinel Oil - "P" w/ magnetic fill plug1
Located at: http://www.stemco.com/qbin/397.pdf
Art
Reading this thread has me thinking out loud.
"I've never had a magnet anywhere near my front bearings on my grease packed hubs on any car, much less my oil bath bearings of the 2 foretravels ive owned in the last 8 years." Hard to really say what is "normal". I loved my skateboards boards back in the 70s, and remember how many yards i had to mow to buy the fancy sealed bearing wheels of the day. I'm really curious what the consensus is concerning normal "bearing dust/shavings caught by these magnetic covers... I'll have to get a pair
David
Those shavings were a result of a previous failure in my opinion. I have over 300,000 miles on my '81 International and I have changed the seals each time I did a brake job and never had any shavings in the oil. The oil will look like it has graphite in it after 100,000 miles but nothing that would look like what Tim had. I still have the original bearings on the truck by the way.
Please define "small dead spot" and "small preload"
Also, are you saying the legal requirements are to be ignored?
Thanks!
TOM
A dial indicator was used when tightening the spindle nuts. I used to do this by feel, but now that I've seen a professional mechanic do the measurement correctly, I'll have to buy a dial indicator for home use. Hello Harbor Freight.
By the way, I just dipped a magnetic pickup tool in the oil bath. It did not pick up anything. I know this is just anecdotal.
I also talked to my truck mechanic friend and he said it should be disassembled, checked, and while I was at it, put in a new set of bearings. (and maybe races).
Personally, I am a "wait and see" person. Fortunately I will only put a few hundred miles on the rig until July 15th. Then I plan a 2000 mile trip and will make sure no more metal is being produced before going too far.
My opionion would be skip harbor freight and check ebay and the pawn shops for a Starrett or Miyotou indicator and get a dial
not a digital for the bearing.
Tom if you watch the stemco mans 30 minute video you may be able to read between the lines when he discusses how the measurable amount of endplay came about. If you feel more comfortable using the legally defensible in court adjustment then please use it.
My Foretravel dealer line mechanic for many years fixed countless Unihome steering wander and dead spots complaints long ago by preloading the wheel bearings. Hundreds is what Vincent told me. He also is the one maintaining Barry's coach in Seal Beach, Ca.
My U320 has had every front end part checked, adjusted, lubed and/or replaced since we got it.
Had legally loose bearings, preloaded then loose again. .001 and .003 adjustment have reintroduced a small dead spot in the steering most would think is perfect.
Except if they had driven the same coach with preloaded bearings.
My Cummins shop service writer said no way. Vincent and I and a lot of Foretravel owners said yes, it's noticeable.
The Michelin tires seem to have been designed to self steer straight with the directional sipes in the tires edges.
Seems to work.
With the preload slight pressure on the steering wheels edge can correct any steering departure angle.
With the measureable adjustment a small movement of the steering wheels edge is necessary to get to where additional movement changes the coaches path.
No "play" versus a little play is noticeable. At least to me, on my coach with the Michelin's.
I posted here long ago about this and that I was going to test the difference.
To me on my coach with my tires it's noticeable.
I am not in the truck repair business where if sued that I need to verify a certain adjustment endplay was used so my attorney, in court, has a defensible DOT approved number.
Watch the video. See his face and word inflection when he mentions the .001-.005 method. I did. Lots of good info there if you are interested. Read between the lines.....
Bearings are designed for preload. This has been discussed and I think I provided links/engineering reference in past threads. For example, here is one: Selecting preload (https://www.skf.com/us/products/bearings-units-housings/principles/bearing-selection-process/bearing-execution/internal-clearance-preload/selecting-preload/index.html)
Here's a non-committal article: Preload Vs Endplay: Understanding Different Bearings Settings (https://www.fullbay.com/preload-vs-endplay/)
The reason preload isn't "the standard" is because it is difficult to create a procedure to get a direct measurement.
Bob,
I'm not trying to argue, just looking for information. I have owned a trucking company 40 years ago and have replaced dozens of driveline componets. I am sorry to say things didn't always get done as precisely as they do now. That said, I usually tried to use the OEM specs whenever possible, except in engine settings. We hot rodded a lot of stuff back then, sometimes with catastrophic results! I will grant you for the sake of argument that you can tell the difference between preloaded and endplay adjusted bearings. I just wanted to know what measurement you are using. When preloading, do you use a calibrated torque wrench? If so, what value do you use? I may try it just to see if I can tell a difference. Timkin recommends the same procedure that WM used in the video. You can read about it here:
https://www.timken.com/pdf/10410_Manual%20Wheel%20Bearing%20Adj%20Procedures%20Sell%20Sheet.pdf
The Rockwell field maintenance manual says the same thing.
I'm certainly no attorney, not do I want to open that can of worms; however, if you have a wheel bearing failure and anyone can prove you knowingly used a non recommended procedure, I'm guessing you would have trouble. Of course, if you have that kind of failure, a lawsuit may be the least of your problems.
Again, I am just looking for info here. I am not saying what is right or wrong.
Krush: That is really MORE info than I wanted! LOL!
TOM
There is No calibrated adjustment to preload wheel bearings. Do not preload any wheel bearings. Just an observation after selling and servicing and driving high line rv's since 1984,
If you need a calibration this is may not be for you.
Maybe I am wrong but my memory says that tapered roller bearings were always preloaded. Am I incorrect?
I hesitated to post this but I said I would long ago.
I have personally hadthe bearings preloaded of hundreds of rv's over the years without any issues other than the coach steered better.
If you do not feel comfortable doing this do not do this.
I am intending to take my coach with the .001-.003 bearings back to Vincent to have him preload them again.
Done this dual test many times in the rv biz starting long ago always with the same results.
Depends on how sensitive you are I suppose. Tire pressure variations of more than a few pounds are noticeable IF every other variations are eliminated.
My store did well selling critically setup driving coaches, if you drove a unihome or unicoach brand new congratulations to you.
I want that "feel" for a fraction of the money. I like driving the coach from the bottom of the wheel
As mentioned by krush, tapered roller bearings are designed to run under preload. As I recall from Timken engineering data, that only applies when run in an oil bath. Determining correct preload for a given assembly is not so simple a thing for us average folks. Preload is a given amount of force with the intent of keeping the rollers and races from losing contact with each other. Simply saying that X bearing set requires Y preload in any situation won't work. Speed, load, housing elasticity (hub), shaft elongation (spindle), and temperature all contribute to determining what is the ideal preload for a given assembly. Calculating this using math is beyond my technocracy. However, one could determine the correct dimensional preload for an assembly by using the bearing manufactures preload data for the speed, load, and operating temperature. Using a load transducer (or short doughnut cylinder with a gauge), and a dial indicator, increase dimensional preload (in our instance, with the spindle nut) until the force preload is as desired. Note the dimensional change on the dial indicator. Knowing the thread pitch of the spindle/nut, calculate the Deg, Min to turn the nut to achieve same dimensional preload. Summary: Dimensional preload is the amount of deflection in an assembly that achieves a desired amount of force. In a fairly compact, rigid assembly, such as our hub/spindle, a small dimensional change will effect a large change in pressure: NOT very forgiving, and a hit or miss situation with typical spindle nut retention. I'm not saying don't run preload (I do), but for us mere mortals, without a precise means of measuring force preload, or experience in knowing that "feel", you're most likely better off (AND SAFER) running a minimal (easy to measure) clearance.
EDIT:
I should have mentioned, there's another, easier, way to determine correct preload with a torque wrench. Some manufactures will provide the amount of torque required to rotate a properly preloaded assembly. Since tapered roller bearings are "zero scrub", this amount will be very low: typically in inch-ounces for bearing in our size range. The amount will be slightly higher for new bearings vs. run-in ones. Using this method, the torque wrench replaces the subjective "feel".
Greg
Tim seems to have a different cap on the wheel than most of us have. Tim, was the cap changed when the bearings were changed? Maybe this is something new from Stemco. Looking at the picture, the magnetic is a mounted on the side and not in the end plug which is gray rather than red.
My wheels too have the tabs broken off. I have always wondered why someone did that. How many others have the tabs broken off?
Jerry, my rig came like that when I bought it three years ago. It looks new. Definitely not OEM. Here's are some photos of the bearing job as it was being done, FYI, including the dial indicator measurement. The photos of the darkened spindle are before the cleanup. The spindle was shiny after using a crocus cloth and cleaning with brake cleaner.
Also FYI: The steering on my rig always seems touchy. It drives straight only on smooth, level roads with no wind. Otherwise, I have to constantly provide corrections for things like road slant, cars passing me, small pot holes, etc...
X2 Tim, working as a machinist for 20 plus years you really don't want to use a HF indicator on something like that, They are fine (to quote a friend) if you can deal with "yard stick close"
Just my 2c woth
Chris
I was just trying to provoke the Forum into comments about Harbor Freight. :) I agree with you. HF is good for some things but you have to buy high-quality stuff for the critical measurements.
Tim, don't get me wrong I visit them (HF) quite frequently just not on the really important stuff!
Chris
The tabs are for helping install the wheels.(on stud centric wheel).
If the bearings are not the same OD;
IMHO all of the bearing narlies will wind up in the large section of the hub , at the inner seal. As long as gravity is working , There should be no reason for them to wind up on the outer plug area. You have to clean the hub with a tooth brush and blow gun to get the narlies out of the seal area.
The dark black oil residue on the nut scares me a little. Definitely overheated the bearings.
The tabs are what center hub centering wheels.
Those nuts in the pic look like the stock OEM meritor setup. I removed mine (and stored in a box) and installed the Stemco 448-4836 Pro-Torque Spindle Nut. I paid $29 each for the pro-torque nuts off Amazon at the time, and it was the cheapest I could find (Nov 2018). I really like the pro-torque, and recommend it. Stemco has another new version that is automatic locking that doesn't require installing the spring lock, but it seems complex and is surely more $$$. Pro-Torq® Axle Spindle | STEMCO (http://www.stemco.com/product/pro-torq-axle-spindle-nuts/)
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stemco.com%2Fqbin%2F427.jpg&hash=4f4d6ac7d8512f46d6398868ca6ae68d" rel="cached" data-hash="4f4d6ac7d8512f46d6398868ca6ae68d" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.stemco.com/qbin/427.jpg)
After a little bit of research, I decided to go with SKF Scotseal Plus XL wheel seals. They are unitized seals, and hand installed...literately just push them in place on the hub by hand. I found some for decent price on eBay and bout a spare front and rear. I think these numbers are correct for my RV: Rear:SKF 47691 $34.95 Front: SKF 35058 $26.34 Prices vary a lot for these seals (NAPA is $$$).
My guru buddy removed my seals that rode on the hub and reinstalled the oem ones with the separate inner sealing ring
The oil was darker than I expected and more metal appeared on the magnet, so I pulled the wheel off and inspected the bearings and races. To the naked eye, they look fine. However, in the detailed iPhone photos below, tiny scratches appear on all the races, indicating dirt was scoring them. Should I go ahead and replace the bearings and races? Should they look totally polished?
Are you sure the races were changed,the first one looks pretty dinged up,polish the spindle with a scrubby,will look better.
Yes, the bearings and races were replaced with high-quality parts 2,200 miles ago.
Something somehow put those dings in the first picture,maybe just install all new oil and watch closely.
On the first photo, I probably wiped my gloved finger on the race to feel for any irregularity. There are none, other than what you see on the photo. I probably had some dirt on the glove. At first glance the races look OK, but there is some microscopic grooving occurring.
It's amazing how the iPhone's advanced camera an pick up things my eye cannot see.
Hummph! Here's a photo of the NEW race. When photographed with the same iPhone XS Max, it shows microscopic grooves. Guess the old races are OK, aye?
The "old" races are fine, metal from the previous bearing has been rolled into the surface. The microscopic grooves are the surface finish left from the grinding process, possibly from a final super-finishing.
Good chance of the outerbearimg,inner race spinning on the spindle. contaminating the lot.
A few prick punch hits around should snug it up .
Camera's do see the world in a manner similar to but still different than our eyes.
If you want to obsess over surface finish, use your fingernail to judge the quality of the surface in question and compare what you feel to these: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06558019
A true surface finish measurement uses a device that runs something akin to a phonograph cartridge and needle in a measures stroke across the surface in question and returns a numerical value.
I wasn't joking when I suggested Simple Green and hot water for cleaning. If you want to get rid of all the metal particles you need to remove the oils first. Very hot water will cause the surface to flash dry. Then a quick spray with WD-40 will prevent rust from forming until you can re-assemble you hub.
FWIW We used to be part of the manufacturing of anti-lock brake system valves and fuel injectors. Everything was cleaned with hot water. The final test was a measured sample of parts soaked in a light solvent, then the solvent was filtered for debris.
Reminds me of the way we would clean our M-16's,with hot water for inspection.
Just completed an 1100 mile trip to a son in the hospital and when home found the Pax side streaked with oil. (Takes Goof Off to remove it.) The drive, both ways, was full of rain and wind and worry. This topic got my attention and is full of info that I never would have considered. Thanks to you all. I may have a blown seal.... And I now consider a fix to be beyond me and perhaps beyond my local diesel shop. However, I will be better prepared to discuss issues and component replacement and procedure.
(Never cleaned my M16 with water. Most of the water available to me you could not see through.)
Found a great video on using a punch to ensure the race doesn't spin on the spindle (called "peening"): semi truck wheel seals bearings races tips and tricks - YouTube (https://youtu.be/tXBuAh8lZI0)
I am waiting on:
- 2 5/8 socket
- 2 1/4 socket
- Dial indicator
Then I will punch the spindle, reassemble and run it for a while and observe the oil color and metal on the magnet.
By the way, there was lots of fine metal fragments on the left steer wheel side magnet of the oil bath. The oil looked fine...not dark. This assembly has over 14,000miles on it and is still running well.
Not sure why it would tunr , but some do . The Brits used tube spacers between the races to stop it.
Have you slid the inner races onto the spindle to check for fit?
Thanks for all your replies. Two things:
1. I will check the race-spindle clearance today.
2. For an enlightening diagram of "peening" the spindle, see: How to deal with a loose bearing race - Grainews (https://www.grainews.ca/2014/12/10/how-to-deal-with-a-loose-bearing-race/)
Some mechanics use Loctite with peening the spindle.
Lewis,check the easy parts first,may be the gasket or the red plug could be old and getting brittle,or the pinhole in the plug could
be plugged up.Try some of the hub oil that comes in the white and red quart bottle may help with the leak.
I don't want to tell you the things I've done to keep machinery working.
But. If you insist:
LOCTITE 641 (https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/product/retaining-compounds/loctite_641.html)
Thanks for Loctite recommendation. Below is a photo of my spindle bearing race, showing that it was spinning. I hypothesize that very fine metal particles, or burning was making the oil bath brown.
I just punched the spindle in eight places(four inner and four outer race), cleaned the spindle with isopropyl alcohol, coated the spindle bearing surface with Loctite, and reinstalled the wheel assembly.
Time will tell if this did the trick. That said, I should probably look for new right spindle, just in case.
I've done just as you described. I drove my 1950 Chrysler Windsor from 1976 until I sold her in 2012.
Had to remove the hub, AGAIN!!!
Due to two unenlightened actions, the hub needed to be removed and reassembled with new parts, including a new seal:
1. I am ashamed to admit I installed the bearings from a different kit (Kit 413, Kit 406). This caused tolerance and binding issues because kits have slightly dimensions, so they don't call it a kit for nothing..
2. I used Permatex non-permanent threadlock on the inside bearing sleeve. This also caused binding and I could not adjust the end-play. It was ZERO. When removing the hub, this caused the need for percussive persuasion from a sledge hammer and a 3 ft pry bar to remove the hub assembly. I recommend NOT using a thread or bearing sleeve retaining compound because it:
A. Glues the bearing sleeve and no further adjustment can be done. E.g. .001 to .005 inch tolerance
B. Makes it VERY difficult to remove the hub.
Hitting the spindle with a punch is MUCH better because the bearing sleeve can still slide a little IMHO.
FYI: Here are the tools I ordered to complete the job:
OTC (1920) Locknut Socket - 6 point, 2-1/4" Opening Size $19.97
Sunex 10619 2-5/8-Inch 6-Point Wheel Bearing Locknut $25.79
Adapter - Sunex 2302 - 1/2" Female x 3/4" Male $7
Dial Indicator - Clockwise Tools DIBR-0105 Electronic Digital Indicator Gage Gauge and Magnetic Base 0-1 Inch/25.4 mm $47
They dont call it "Loctite" for nothing. I would only use Loctite on the races for a permanent, last ditch effort. The pin pricks should suffice . FWIW The inner race seldom moves, probably due to much more area and more load .
A small bearing preload takes the last play out of the steering system. Mine has a tiny play in the steering wheel with .001 and.003 endplay that was not present with a slight preload.
No I cannot tell you how much small is.
You guys are starting to scare me. These are tapered wheel bearings. Something that's been in use since at least 1909. Granted the advent of using high pressure gear lube is a great improvement, but it wasn't so bad putting a dab of grease in the palm of your hand and scraping your palm with the bearing until grease sprouted from the bearing rollers. Drop the inner bearing in the hub, tap in the grease seal. Slide the hub onto the spindle and push it all the way back. Grease the outer bearing the same way and slide ti onto the spindle. Install the hardened flat washer with key ans spin on the nut. Wipe your hands clean. Spin the tire while tightening the nut until all play is removed and you're pretty certain the grease has been squeezed from between the bearing rollers and the races. Back up the nut until yo find the first place to insert a cotter key. Lesson to insert cotter key follows later.
Seriously guys, for drilling spindles with tapered roller bearings I tighten the nut until a specified amount of torque is required to turn the spindle. For my Honda motorcycles, the tapered roller bearing in the steering stem, I use a spring scale on the handle bar end and look for 2 ounces new, 1 ounce used.
For the undersized Chevrolet P-30 chassis on which far too many motorhomes were built. Spin the tire and slowly torque until the specified amount is reached and lock the nut in place with the cotter pin.
You can glue the inner race in place because it doesn't move until it's time to be replaced. Then, again, Mr. Murphy whispers in my ear "Are you certain you want to make that a permanent assembly? If you do sooner or later you'll be the one to take that permanence apart."
Art Joly
P.S. The Ford "T" model? The Timken outer tapered roller bearing is threaded onto the spindle.
Thanks for rolling (Pun) up your sleeve (Pun) and sharing your advice. The problem occurred when the outside bearing sleeve started to spin inside the spindle, making some metal which was caught in the magnet and causing the oil bath to darken. The other issue is that I am an electrical engineer; smart enough to be dangerous but dumb enough to mix bearing sets. So I had to re-install the bearing set twice.
My lesson-learned is that small dimples should be put on the outside spindle bearing sleeve location to retain it from spinning. These dimples should do three things:
- Keep bearing sleeve from spinning
- Allow for proper torquing and break-in of the bearing assembly.
If the bearing sleeve is glued in place, how could end-play be adjusted?
- Easier rework in the future: No sledge hammers, pry-bars and removing old glue.
News Flash: I drove the rig this morning. The wheel stayed on and no unusual sounds were heard. Yay!
Hopefully this will be that last bearing job this 22 year old Foretravel and 61 year old engineer. Thanks for all your advice.
My partner is an electronics engineer. Our household is divided as though it were a union shop. Much safer this way.
If you wanted to learn about wheel bearings, couldn't you have picked something smaller with which to start?
Congratulations on sticking it out to the end and a successful conclusion.
Loctite comes out like an oil and gives plenty of time to set end-play before setting up. Just information to add to your knowledge base.
The problem is that I got spooked by the 450 degrees F required to soften and disassemble a sleeve bonded with Permatex 64000.
See https://441py33rout1ptjxn2lupv31-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/tech_docs/tds/64000.pdf
A few questions:
1. Would 450 F damage, warp or change metallic properties of the spindle and surrounding brake parts?
2. Would it have been better to use Loctite or Permatex on the sleeve vs dimpling the spindle with a center punch?
3. Would it have been better to replace the spindle?
In any case, I was unable to measure end play because the glue and/or dimples locked the bearing sleeve to the spindle. No matter how hard I tugged or pushed on the hub, the dial gauge read ZERO. The big spindle lock nut was torqued properly and backed off 1/4 turn per the Timken RP-618 procedure.
Loctite only if the dimples don't suffice.
You can set endplay by mounting the tire, giving it a smack with a 10# er and then turning the nut .
Barring that run it a few miles over the nearest RR crossing and recheck .
In the past I have knurled to raise the metal surface then finish ground to size for the ball bearing's inner race.
I have ground down the surface and installed a repair sleeve then finished to size.
And I once purchased the complete front suspension for my 1950 Chrysler Windsor at a California salvage yard.
When I found out that my U225 has king pins, well, I'm down with that.