Good morning,
I'm in the process of purchasing a foretravel and actually drove my first one yesterday.
I noticed that the front Dash AC wasn't cooling enough on its own .
Is it standard practice to be driving down the road with the generator on to run the rooftop A/C's
In the summer heat you will have to run roof air going down the road..it's nice if dash air works too but many don't and get by. In extremely hot weather you may set a fan in the floor behind traveling chairs. I wouldn't cancel a trip over dash air not blowing but I am happier when everything works as it should but the best of dash air isn't meant to cool a coach.
Those big windows require a LOT of AC so turn on the roof AC and the generator.
Notorious for Foretravels, but mine has worked since 19 and 94.
Window tint will help with the heat inside, and I believe they now make a clear that can be used on the windshields to cut down on heat and UV.
Drove my 280 from one end of the gulf coast to another with just roof airs and a fan and stayed plenty cool in July.. I aim to keep dash air working on the 270 just because it frets me when something doesn't work.
It is in our coach.
That way, when we get to the RV park at the end of the driving day (4:00PM in our case), the whole coach is nice and cool and ready for a relaxing evening. Others may do it different, but we get along fine without a functional dash A/C.
The previous owners told us our dash air has never worked, in spite of several coach bucks being spent on it over the years. We have a residential refrigerator, so the generator is generally on when we're traveling. On those rare occasions when it is neither too hot nor too cool we can use the inverter for the refrigerator. I think that has happened once or twice. Usually I start the Detroit and make sure that it is running properly, then start the generator. Since I can't hear the Detroit when the generator is running I want to hear it as well as see the gauges before adding a louder (closer) engine noise.
Dash air is a weakness on almost every motorhome I've experienced. You have a big sunny window in front of you and a big box of hot air behind you. I think infrequent use contributes to seal failures.
We just had a new compressor installed, but it's just hanging there on the bracket waiting for new lines to be fabricated and hooked up.
Our expectation is that, in central Texas, we can run the dash a/c during the spring and fall and add the roof a/c's during the summer.
I think most dash air conditioners are designed to cool roughly the same volume as is in a typical car or perhaps van. Therefore they probably can't be expected to properly cool a motorhome except in moderate weather. We use our dash air when it's sufficient and add the roof air when needed.
I have a 2002 U270 36' single slide I replaced the AC compressor the expansion valve and the condenser electric cooling fan (spal) this is a very high dollar fan check nascar used parts I have never had an issue where we need to run the roof top AC units even driving in Arizona . My personal thought is most shops Add entirely too much oil to the system I consistently see temperatures in the low 40s high 30s from the evaporator coil with fan on high and 95* outside temperature I personally think foretravel designed the AC system on this particular motorhome quite well .
The dash air on my coach is 22,000 btu 8,500 more btu than my roof air and closer to the passenger compartment.
2002 U270 , 28.000 btu Automotive air conditioner
Wonder where they picked up the additional 6,000 from my '99?
Looks like 2001.
http://beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/models/2001-u270-foretravel-specifications.pdf
The airflow for the dash AC is poor. The ducting from the air handler is undersized and restrictive. The dash AC can make lots of cold when working correctly, but at least in my '98 it really could use better ducting.
OPELGT327
Can you elaborate on what you did in layman's terms?
Where did you get the parts and do you have part numbers?
Thanks
He didn't DO anything. 28,000 is the standard 2002 dash A/C BTU rating. See link below (scroll down to
Heating/Cooling/Electrical):
2002 Foretravel U270 Specifications (http://beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/models/2002-u270-specifications.html)
2001 is when the Unicoaches dash style changed from the electroluminescent black aluminum gauge panels with the padded vinyl upholstered hood, to the molded plastic design. The new style apparently gave more room for the HVAC assembly along with different cup holders and some storage. I still like the older style better, but the higher btu rating of the 01's and above might make me learn to love it...
Don
As I stated earlier all the components on the factory system 2002 are good components they just need to be properly filled with the right charge with the correct oil you might wanna check your condensing fan because most people will replace the fan with an inferior model all in all the system should work very well. If I was ever going to try to improve on the system I would replace the rear condenser with New style condenser As technology and materials have developed a new condensers that are highly efficient
The FT a/c in my opinion is a money pit. MOT, Bern'd, Byer's in Jacksonville,IL and FT have all worked on the system. Each replacing different components. Compressor, expansion valve, condenser, and non of them was able to fix the a/c. I only know Krush to have been able to fix the a/c. I have had trucks that the a/c worked for the life of the vehicle. Not Foretravel.
I'll admit they are harder to service because of the long hose runs compared to a truck, but they came from the factory working and without personal experience on your coach can't say what your problem is. My '99 works great after changing compressor, expansion valve and condenser fan. And I was able to get my Monaco going after PO said they couldn't get it to work.
Then you need to find someone who really understands automotive air conditionong. The dash air on our 1995 U320 performs acceptably well. It doesn't do an outstanding job because the air flow volume could be much better, but it does hold a charge and does blow nice cold air. It is not a "money pit."
You just need an AC guy that is an AC guy... They have no moving parts other than the compressor... whats the problem? Get a guy that knows what he is doing and one step at a time to fix it.
https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=4090 Willy White Did mine Steve helped me out and spent almost all day with me .. explaining how they work and how simple a system...Awesome Character !! Maybe Pm him, Hes always willing to help
....dash air can be fixed, depending on who fixes it.....I chose to defer it, 2 years later made it part of my nearly $10,000 bill at MOT but within a day or so of them "fixing" it, it died again...(on my way back to Florida)....got back to FL & had Paul Yasbeck do it right, he does everything right the 1st time, it's icy cold still.
Yasbeck Construction, Inc. - Home (http://www.yasbeckconstruction.com) .....best FT tech in the state, possibly in the country....
Miz Dani
Thank you for communicating exactly the way I feel about getting a professional to fix the a/c. MOT, FT, Bern'd and Byer supposedly all knowledgeable and capable of fixing a FT a/c; failed and yet I am without a/c and over $3000 less in my pocket. There seems to be a industry attitude of screw the customer. Rework due to failure of work preformed is REPAY again. Not one of the entity involved has ever offered to fix it on their dime. It is not just a female thing, it is the way they do business. Standing behind your work does not exist in the repair industry especially when it relates to FT.
97 and 98 had 17k btu dash air. 99 and up had larger(27k?) dash ac.
My dash air keeps the front seats ok until the low 90's outside with the gen and roof airs.
My thermostat is reachable from the drivers seat.
So I leave the control panel set for a/c and the fans on auto and the front and rear temps are where I want them to be.
When needed I turn the gen on and give it a minute to connect and then reach back and power on the control.
2 minute delay the compressors come on,
When turning off the system reverse the steps. Load off first. Then the gen
On my 96 coach, I ended up replacing everything but the condenser to get all the leaks repaired and the unit operating properly. This included all the hoses. When my 2005 coach started losing refrigerant, we disassembled every connection and replaced the rubber seals. Only after that were we able draw a vacuum down to 500 microns. We serviced with refrigerant to the proper sub cooling and superheat. I can now run the dash air to cool the entire coach by running the exhaust fans in the back. Of course this will not preclude running the roof air in Texas in August.
I have found most automobile a/c technicians still use just a set of gauges and only get the a/c to cool. They never attempt to get it to produce the maximum possible. Getting it correct makes a significant difference.
I have not coated my windshield with the clear 3M sheets yet, but know someone who had his Fleetwood done and he was impressed with the reduction in heat.
Mine works well, however, I have to add a can of refrigerant every few months. Check the oil, check the tires, add a can of R-134 and we're good to go. I spent a bunch on the automotive A/C in my previous coach but it never did work great. Probably the only way to get there is do like Steve and go through the whole system end to end.
jor
Have tried a leak stop called "Red Angel" with good results,can get it on Amazon.
The claimed capacity may have increased, but I suspect the actual capacity didn't really increase. The Sanden compressor that is used in many applications (including our 95 U320) is capable of producing only about 24,000 BTU when operated at the speed it operates in our coaches (given the engine RPM and pulley diameters). It would be interesting to know which compressor Foretravel used in 2002.
The 99's had a different dash ac box as far as my research into my dash airs lack of desert type cooling. DIfferent assembly.
Foretravel tended to order 2 years worth of parts spread out over the two years.
Probably a year in they got enough feedback to know what needed changing and to engineer the changes and build the parts then test and install. Problem is the test and install is probably at the same time.
I'm gonna get me some of that stuff. Thanks for the tip.
jor
Anybody can replace parts....but in my experience only 5-10% of "experienced techs" can troubleshoot correctly. This is everywhere: RV's, cars, plumbing, electrical work, IT, space shuttle, ships, power plants, airplanes.
We have a 2002 U270 and the dash air works great without the roof air on until the return temp in the coach starts to warm up above 78 degrees. We then crank the generator and roof air units and my wife travels with a blanket on her its so cold.
Recently though while on I-10 west the road was so rough that a damper swapped over on its own and now the air only comes out of the defrost and floor vents. I cannot get it to swap back over. Anyone know how to access the damper system in the dash?
Allen,
Welcome to the ForeForum.
Sounds like it might be a vacuum issue. Default condition when no vacuum present is defrost. If most is coming out the defrost vents, and only a little out the floor, that is where I would start.
You have a 12 VDC vacuum pump OR air powered vacuum pump (depends on year model) up front that generates vacuum. Start by tracing the vacuum line to the dash HVAC selector.
Allen,
On my coach, FOT installed an air driven vacuum pump when it was built. If yours is original, it should be the same. It is located behind the fold down outside step curtain. I ended up replacing it with an electric pump when it failed. The original vacuum canister is just a tin can. Mine was pretty rusted and I replaced it with a plastic canister. All available through NAPA. More info on the forum if you search.
All the vacuum solenoids are located in the center of the dash behind the storage compartment and under the drawer. I did a post a number of years ago about how to disassemble the dash and access them.
Rich
Dash Removal (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=18705.msg129455#msg129455)
Allen,
Also check the position of the rotary switch on the magazine rack to the right of the passenger seat. IIRC it controls the vents that blow towards the passenger.
Allen,
The vacuum solenoids I referenced above control the flaps that direct the air. You can spot them by all the small black tubes that distribute the vacuum. I replaced one last year when a flap quick working. Each flap also has a vacuum driven actuator.
Rich
Eye-opening thread for me. 1992 U225, purchased in 2002; 1st service was by FT and included topping off the R12 for dash A/C and it worked OK. Short time later prepping for a trip - no cooling. Had system charged again, same thing. MOT worked on it with same results, Freon gone a few months later. Through 2017 spent between $3k and $4k , everything from converting to R134a, new clutch and compressor, multiple checks for leaks and replacing fittings. Finally gave up - R12 and R134a both would never stay in it.
For 2 years now I have a 1995 U240 with no cooling at all, and I have been afraid to even try to have it fixed. End result - for 17 years of driving FT I have never had success with dash air and no longer count on it. Use the generator and roof air.
This thread has eased my worry over it - I never before realized that's just the way it is.
Thanks to all contributors.
Doyle