I shot this video on a good stretch of I-35 with just a light wind from behind me.
is this excessive working the steering wheel to stay in my lane? I am focusing about a 1/4 mile down the road.
VIDEO (https://photos.smugmug.com/Foretravel/Forums-post-1/i-TgC8cvs/0/c112a57c/1280/20190425_143950-1280.mp4)
Yes, unless there is a lot of gusty side wind, that is too much working of the steering wheel.
First, verify that nothing in the steering is loose. Takes 2 minutes with a helper. Engine off, have helper work the steering wheel left/right back and forth while you check for play from column all the way to right front wheel.
May be worth checking front wheel bearings for excessive freeplay-- it takes a dial indicator.
The Sheppard M100 box DOES have more "slop" than many. Redhead in Washington state does blueprint them to remove much of it.
THEN, instead of "driving" try to "aim it". Said another way, let it wander a little and you just correct if it gets too far off course. Said another way look way further down the road.
Yep that's too much! Get your wallet out. :)
Mine used to be like that and after alignments, new torque rod bushings, preloading the bearings, blueprinted steering gear, and a few tie rod ends thrown in I'm down to about a 10th of what I'm seeing in the video. The sad part is I'm still not happy. I have about 1/4" play and it makes me cranky.
see ya
ken
Has anyone seen up close or used that $1000 device used to set the wheel bearings yet??
Thanks Brett, I do aim it down the road that is why I focus about a 1/4 mile and just try to keep my left foot over the left track.
If Tim can get a deal setup with RedHead or MOT I will do that and they can put that in and check the bearings and alignment at the same time.
Steve, we are experincy the same issues with our coach. Flat wears me out! Our '98 was rock solid and never had this much play. Going to find a truck service center that specializes in front ends as we are in TN now and will be heading up the east coast this summer. May stop in Alcoa and have them check the front end!
If you need too rice tire in Winchester VA off I81 does front end work but hope you can find one in TN.
Ken my X Foretravel dealer mechanic mentioned "clocking" the u joints in the steering column at different rotational positions to reduce the inherent play in the early coaches.
Foretravel made a "brace" at some point in the early uhihomes model run to help this issue.
Yes the 1/4" is noticeable.
Janes T should be able to help with info.
The dead spot was a customer complaint on many not all coaches. Some had it. Some did not. That's why Vincent and the Texas staff came around the the offset steering column " bearings" or u joints.
May be visible if you hold the front tires against something hard and work the wheel back and forth and see what does't transmit the inputs.
I got mine down to the wheel bearings.
If not the box would go to straight line engineering for a for sure blueprint.
You said dead spot. Tires do not do that so I did not ask about them.
Interesting to know if James knows anything about this. If not I will ask my friend who fixed these back then if your 02 would be helped by this.
According to him my 97 is the first year Foretravel moved the steering box over for the wide body box.
Apparently the boxes were located the same as the narrow bodies and the drag link arm was at an angle going from the Pittman arm to the axle.
If I do not have the description correct do not critique me as Vincent mentioned this in passing to me when he first worked on my 97.
Tie rod ends wear quickly. Check for play? A shot of grease may help any wear.
Hope this info is of help. Vincent used to rotate the columns parts and road test. Then rotate if again. Normally one position was better than the others. Did a lot of this testing personally through aug 89 when I left...
There's a lot going on here starting with the lack of rack and pinion steering. My chassis has a solid front axle with king pins.
Now over the last four decades I've logged many miles driving long distance in automobiles from the 1940s and early 1950s, and I learned to find the ruts worn in the pavement by the traffic and allow the wheels to follow. Now on my way into Macon, GA in the Rockwood there was one whoop-dee-do where the pavement had been crudely patched and I vividly remember even though many years ago an interesting series of oscillations when the track of the 1948 Chrysler didn't match the pavement wear.
Yes, you should have the steering gear inspected, but maybe if all checks out you just need to relax. One of the many reasons for sending my partner to Texas to purchase our new home was for him to be alone for the drive back. My heart isn't in the best of condition and sometimes it's easier to learn the characteristics of a vehicle with a rear engine when you're alone. Call it enlightened self interest.
Try not to steer so often, yes it sounds like a facile statement but driving a heavy vehicle is a dance between you and the machine.
I would recommend Buddy Gregg or a big truck place up in Knoxville.
Steve yes too much movement. I barely turn my wheel. Slight pressure is all I need. That's tiring
I dont get so tired, I have done several 600 mile days going to and from NC but I just dont dare take my eyes off the road as it only takes a second or tow to start changing lanes. I started driving heavy loads in the mid 60's driving a 49 GMC cab over with 420 Bu (25,200 lbs) of wheat. that particular stretch of road was concrete and no wheel ruts and just a slight tail wind. you should see in on a asphalt road with worn tracks and a cross wind "LOL"
Sorry when I offend people who do have knowledge and experience, it's just in my trade I found it safer to assume the other person is an idiot. In person I can watch the other person's eyes for that tell tale deer in headlights moment that tells me I've lost them.
FWIW I once was witness to the center steering link falling out of a '54 Cadillac Limousine as it pulled off the road. Inspecting the suspension is never a bad idea.
Check the universal joint in the steering column. A small amount of wear/play translates to a lot of steering wheel movement. Inexpensive to replace. Another Forum person suggested to me to increase the toe-in by 1/16" to 1/8" (reduce the distance between the front of the steer tires compared to the distance at the rear of the steer tires). This assumes the alignment is OK to start with.
I think some of this is driver related. Drive towards a point 3-400 yards ahead of you if you can see it. Leave 5 seconds or more of space ahead of you especially following trucks where there is much more turbulent air. That is 440 ft at 60 mph. Watch for the vehicle in front to pass a sign or marker on the side of the road. You should be able to slowly count to five before you get there.
Strong side winds and front quartering winds seem to make for a more active driving day. For me. Susan is a more active steerer than I am in general.
A lot of these old Foretravels wander. I've had Foretravel align a couple of them with poor results. I think the advice on increasing the toe is good and would show noticeable improvement. You just need to find a good front end shop and I'm betting they will straighten you out. Good luck.
jor
Everything in the steering and suspension has some ware on a 20+ year old coach. King pins, steering box, wheel bearing adj., steering shaft play, tire pressure, tie rod and drag links, and more. A good heavy truck alignment shop should be able to identify and and replace worn components. It's just a matter of how much $$$ and time you are willing to
Put in it. If I where running constantly back and forth across the country, rather the moving 3-400 miles every week or two, I would pay more attention to it. At the end of the day its still a big plastic box we are trying to herd down the road in a straight line.
I posted a good video about front end alignment a while back. It said dont measure the tow on the alignment rack, drive it froward on flat ground, coast to a stop, then measure it.
As a Iron Butt Rider I watch from as far as I can see back to about 1/4 mile so I have plenty of reaction time. I learned the hard one once you go where you look "LOL"
I tried to check the knuckle by my self and it felt snug but the whole shaft has some slack in it. I have close to 150K on it now and I see where some folks start changing out their steering box at about that point.
If I am going to change out the box I will do that first then have everything else set to the new box so I dont have to pay for it twice, I hope :-)
I have tried to check all the steering linkage by hand by myself but I realize that is not the best way but it all does feel tight as I cant wiggle any of it but it is had to tell with 12K setting on the suspension "LOL"
Redhead says they rebuild a Foretravel box about once a week. I think the 1997-2003 years of Sheppard boxes are a bad run. Way too many people have had too much play in theirs. Trucks go a million miles and never replace a steering box.
I rebuilt mine because of leaks. Play seems to be reduced but it wasn't terrible to start with.
You can do a lot of that checking yourself with jack stands and a jack, or even your chassis leveling system and jack stands. But once again a helper "helps."
A very simple first corrective action, after verifying no loose parts is simply to add some toe in. Basically, loosen two locking ends on track bar, put a pipe wrench on it and rotate it about 1/4 turn. Then retighten the locking ends. Having a non independent front end makes this very simple as both wheels are adjusted when you change the track bar. The change should be readily apparent on a test drive after. Possibly this will solve your problem. If not it's easy enough to reset to original, just reverse the process.
Thanks Chuck, I will give that a try. ^.^d
Give it a try. You'll need to look at the track bar and see which direction to turn it. The goal is to get the front of the tires closer together the rear of the tires spread apart. As I recall, looking at the end of the track bar from passenger side, you would rotate it clockwise but verify this. It's been years since I did it, possibly others can comment.
How do I post a 40 second behind the wheel video here? Smugmug wants a membership. No,
I am not sure, I have had a smugmug account to about 15 years.
Post on YouTube? 40 seconds of steering wheel movement might go viral and make you the next YouTube influencer.
And it's free.
Yes I'm feeling great today, I have the Rockwood cleaned up and listed for sale. Now I can get back to working on my Foretravel.
Sample: Brother's Shell Trim Diana Sullivan - YouTube (https://youtu.be/IQu1QIlqjZo)
Chuck are you talking about the track bar (aka panhard rod) or the tie rod that connects left to right steering knuckles?
We are having the same issue with our 1997 rig! Glad to see all this info!
Think we will see what we can check and possibly have it checked out somewhere on this years East Coast travels...
My apologies, it appears my terminology is incorrect. It is the tie rod that connects the steering knuckles. It is the aftmost suspension component, approximately 6 feet long that connects right and left steering knuckles. It is located behind, and parallel to the I beam axle.
Yup, and easy to measure toe-in and adjust the tie rod length.
Raise front tires off ground. Use a nail installed at an angle into a piece of 2X4 to scribe a line on the tire as you rotate it one revolution. Return tires to fully loaded position.
Use a tape measure, long stick or other "tool" to measure both front and back of the tire-- as close to1/2 way up the tire as possible-- same height on both front and back.
Set toe to 1/8" toe- IN (back dimension 1/8" LONGER than front).
Since camber can't be changed without bending the axle and caster is set by metal shims so unlikely to change toe-in is normally all that needs to be checked on a front end alignment on a solid axle coach.
Yes, ride height, tire pressure, wheel bearing play, etc are also important.
And, irregardless of what suspension one haves, if one corner is in poor shape--not supporting or rebounding the same as the other side, your coach will "jump" all over the road.
We found out the hard way. The deterioration of our passenger front spring was quite gradual until we bottomed badly at 45 MPH on our way to TX in 2017. When coming home the recoil of the front end of our coach made steering very, very, nerve wracking. (we have leaf springs by the way)
Replaced both front springs and now the coach drives like our Cadillac Eldorado did.
Check your heights just before launching. If sides vary, something might be wrong.
Yes, with leaf suspension, side to side on both axles should have the same "ride height". Adding a leaf, adding a shim, shifting weight, all work to relevel. Of course if the spring has lost its "spring" replacement is the correct answer.
For air suspensions, it IS DIFFERENT.
Start in the rear. There are two ride height valves in back. Get ride height to spec.
BUT (large but) there is only one ride height valve in front, so you want the "average" to be on-spec. If more than 1/2" different, yes, you can fudge by adjusting one side in back, say 1/8" above spec and the other side 1/8" below spec to transfer weight side to side in front.
Per Brett for setting some toe. Remeasure with wheels on the ground. 1/8 in to 1/4 in toe in may be changed with the wheels on th ground due to the usual slop , flex of all of the pieces involved.
FWIW the older Oshkosh has a slack adjuster bolt on the steering box. The 3/4in lock nut is left hand thread on mine, the center bolt is 1/4 allen .
I think Mike with Protech Racing put it well, I'm pasting his response from an older thread.
The reality is that you should use a little toe in as possible. If the customer complains about wander you add a little , simple as that. The high value is 1/2 in total toe . The low value is 0.
My Oshkosh was zero when I got it and it drove fine on small ,high pressure tires. I changed tires to the 295 and now it likes 1/4 toe in , measured with toe plates across the entire tire. Just above the bottom rubber bump. Some can measure across the tire tread section that runs straight 360*.
It does not matter how you measure toe as long as you use the same method each time. The mission is to have a bus that tracks well for the driver, while using as little toe in as possible . Too much toe slows it down/burns fuel/ wears tires.
Every vehicle has a tolerance stack that affects tracking. Ball joint not new but inside of specs, kingpins, tie rods, wheel bearings , trailing links, etc, all can be in factory spec ranges , yet all have some affect on tracking . Adding toe in can take up the total slack in these items and produce the best compromise between driver and tire wear.
If you get aligned at a shop, ask to see that chart for your chassis, baring that, look for another bus that has the same front axle and start with those values. If it tracks poorly , ask for another twist of toe. Measure it post adjustment and use that value and measurement method for the future. (end of Mike's post.)
My coach drove best running Michelin tires, with slightly more than 1/4" toe in, measured at edges of tire. I've got Toyos now and will reset it till it feels right for them. I also found that a safe-t-plus stabilizer added an additional margin of stability.