Traveled from Florida to Our home base in Illinois on Thursday. Today I wanted to start the coach and nothing. I checked power on the large 12v lug on the starter and we have power. We tested the power on the the solenoid 12v luv on the starter while the wife turned the key and we have power. I concluded we need a solenoid. I decided to tap the solenoid with a hammer while my wife turned the key to see if I can get it to start and noticed sparks coming out of the base of the large 12v lug on the solenoid. I was able to move it enough to get it started, aired up and safety blocks. My initial thought was to just change the solenoid on the old starter. Looking at the solenoid there are 3 small screws at the base of the solenoid, with one on the engine side of the starter. They are small and rusted. If I have to pull the starter to change the solenoid then I feel I should up grade the starter to a Delco Remy Heavy Duty Gear Reduction Starter. It will be much lighter than the original and turn the engine faster.
Questions:
1. Anyone know the starter model in a 1999 U320, Cummins M11 Celect Plus?
2. Is the upgrade a good choice?
3. What do I do with the old starter if I purchase the upgrade?
4. Can I buy the solenoid only for the old starter?
4. Ideas and issues with removing the old starter.
5. Anyone know where the Auxiliary Start Relay is on a 1999 320?
The starters a very generic. The allen screws let them be clocked for different applications. My International crane starter is the same as on my coach. The solenoids don't come off by just removing the 3 screws. There is a plug on the end of the starter that gives access to remove the final stud that holds it on. I would recommend finding a truck supply and exchanging it solenoid and all.
Check the cable connections on the solenoid, may just be a lose connection.
Craneman,
Do you have a part number. Is it in the 42MT family?
Looking at the starter I was able to find this tag on the starter. Hard to read the part number. Picture attached. Also attached is a picture of a starter I found but don't know if it's correct.
John M
Gary,
Cable connections are tight. Stud on solenoid is loose.
John M.
Another search using the tag on my starter which I believe is P/N 195830 leads me to the Delco Remy 39MT Heavy Duty Gear Reduction Starter. See attachment. Just want to be sure.
John M
John, I had my starter rebuilt, was going to replace with upgrade but a Tech friend told me the new starters were aluminum and the housing around shaft where the starter gear engages would egg shape. he suggested the re-build would last longer and give less problems than a new one. I'm no expert but I have had starters on tractors that were not putting out near this much torque egg shape so I went with rebuild. Don't remember total price but it was less than new (but they did have it for 2 or 3 days)
Chris
The attachment you posted has 3 different pinion configurations you need to count the teeth when you pull the starter. I will try to find the info in my files if you plan to but it first.
mine were 11 teeth on the pinion.
Pulling the starter tomorrow morning. I have a place I can go to tomorrow, Action Truck Parts.
John M
The upper back bolt probably is a 5/8 12 pt head use a long 1/2" drive extension and an air gun to get that one
We don't have an air gun. We will have to work with a breaker bar and see how it goes. Thanks for the info.
John M.
Used my harbor freight really long braker bar yesterday to remove large nuts from a dirt bike motor I was rebuilding.
Much easier with a really long bar. Thanks for the post here at a sale price.
Starter on our ISM died a couple of years ago, in the driveway at home. It was always slow to start since we bought the coach. After installing the new starter it starts great, the engine turns over twice as fast as before. Bought a new starter at a local truck supply. No core charge, they don't sell rebuilds. It was around $350 which was very reasonable for a big starter.
The three mounting bolts were obscenely tight. Required a heavy duty breaker bar, 12 point socket, long extentions and long cheater, 1/2 inch impact wouldn't break them loose. The top bolt closest to the block was a bear to get loose. The starters pretty heavy and an awkward location on the ISM (M11).
David,
Thanks for the info! It's going to be a heavy challenge.
John M.
John, I had to replace mine last year. Similar problems you had. I did a write up about a year ago. I couldn't get mine to start and raise up, it was a real bear to get the top bolt loose. Ended up with a 5/8 socket, 12" extension, long handle ratchet and a cheater pipe on that. If I could have it raised like yours, much easier, but still will need the extra length for torque.
I replaced with a Delco Remy 39mt. About half the weight. Spins the engine exceptionally well compared to the old one. It has a different shape slightly and makes getting to the bolts much easier. I had to pull the starter this weekend to work on my fuel lines, took minutes to remove, another to put back on. The coach was raised which helped a lot compared to last year.
I wouldn't mess with the solenoid, if it was me. Replace the starter and be done with it. It will probably outlast the coach.
Larry
Larry,
Thanks for the info and advice.
John M
FYI...You can raise the coach without starting the engine if you have access to an external air compressor. You just need 2 male quick connections to make an adapter and feed the air back through your coach's external air port. Just make sure that your compressor air pressure is not too high or you'll trip the dump valve on your dryer. No harm done as the valve will reset but best not to over-pressurize the system.
We looped a wide long strap around frame and starter allowing a 2nd person to pull from outside the coach to life the starter weight while I, underneath loosened bolts and then again when installing a new starter.
We had a slow starting issue for a year and after doing many things including rebuilding the starter, new ground cable, clean terminals, etc, with nothing totally fixing the problem. But a new Delco-Remy starter fixed the issue and we now start great. Maybe a Delco-Remy factory rebuilt starter could also have worked.
Barry,
I plan to do same. I'm also going to also install a stud in one of the bolt hole location to help in the installation.
Thanks for the info!
John M.
Good luck! I have a slow starting starter too
Keith,
You might want to change it before it leaves you hanging. The attached starter PDF is what's going in, PN 8200308
John M
Be sure you "clock" it to match the old one before you start putting it in.
John, the headless stud is a great idea. Make it long enough and maybe cut a screwdriver slot in the end to later remove it with weight on the threads.
Much interested in reduction gear starter, which we did not install.
A couple of years ago I had to have ours rebuilt as it stopped working. Tech said the original was a good one and he rebuilt it in 4hrs as bushings caused armature to get stuck. Better than new now. We were passing thru Montana and a napa guy gave me his phone and info to have this shop do rebuild. All he does is starter's and alternators. Excellent place.
JohnH
Chuck,
Never had to worry about clocking the starter so I looked it up. Thanks to the internet and Youtube we can get educated. Thanks for the info. Here is the Youtube on clocking.
John M.
Clocking a Gear Reduction 39MT Starter | Delco Remy Product Tech Tip - YouTube (https://youtu.be/E6dhcbZyTx4)
John, the Youtube you posted was very informative. I also had never heard the terms "clocking the starter." That lesson will certainly save me lots of time in the future if I have to make a starter change. Thank you
Well we waited for over a week for it stop raining and the ground to dry up some and today we were able to install the Delco Remy 39MT Gear Reduction Starter.
The removal of the old starter was not bad since I had the coach raised up. With the help of my wife from above keeping tension on a rope and a stud, I was able to remove and slide the starter off of the stud and lower it down safely using two hands. That old starter was very heavy!
The new starter was a breeze and I was able to lift it into position and bolt it in without any help. There was more room to install all the bolts. The starter didn't need to be clocked it was set right straight out of the box. The wiring connection were pretty straight forward.
Started the coach using no boost and she spun and started fast. Very happy with the starter and installation. Would recommend this starter as a replacement.
Thank you all for your support and recommendations.
John M.
Now, what to do with the old starter. I hate pitching it in the garbage when it could probably be rebuilt.
John M
John,
It could definitely be rebuilt, if the stator and rotor is good the rest of the parts are not expensive. I would fix it for you for you if you were close by so you could have a back up.
Mike
John where did you find the best price on the starter?
$235 with free shipping.
New Genuine Delco Remy Starter 39MT 8200433 see details for fitment for sale... (https://www.ebay.com/p/New-Genuine-Delco-Remy-Starter-39MT-8200433-see-details-for-fitment/1529760826?iid=223509583099&chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=223509583099&targetid=596465995668&device=t&adtype=pla&googleloc=1016367&poi=&campaignid=1689407495&adgroupid=74365778388&rlsatarget=pla-596465995668&abcId=1140476&merchantid=119035185&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgPnMmI6f4gIVRJyzCh048An6EAQYAyABEgLS0vD_BwE)
$296
39MT STARTER MOTOR GENUINE OEM NEW 11T CW 12V (https://www.jittruckparts.com/39mt-starter-motor-genuine-oem-new-11t-cw-12v-8200308?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgPnMmI6f4gIVRJyzCh048An6EAQYCiABEgL_qfD_BwE)
Make sure you have the exact P/N
I replaced my oem 42MT with a 39MT and have had much faster cranking ever since. Tossed the old one in the scrap bin and never looked back.
Roger I assume my m11 would use the same starter as John's m11... shouldn't it???
Keith,
I shopped around and found a lot of aftermarket and refurbished starters at a lower price on the Internet. I didn't order from an online store because I'm at a campground and they don't allow shipments into the park. We have over 1700 sites here and the park is secured. It would be a mad house if deliveries were allowed.
The starter that was in my coach was a Delco Remy P/N 195830 made for Cummins. The new Delco Remy 39MT P/N 8200308 went into the coach M11 very easy and works great. I bought my starter at a local truck parts store "Action Truck Parts" here in Illinois and paid $319.
John M
Thanks John, for the p/n. I know Dave M put a geared starter in his 2001 ISM11 and liked it..
Keith, I hate making assumptions when it is several hundred bucks. But I would think so.
Here is one on ebay for $280.
Genuine Heavy Truck Delco Remy 8200308 Starter 39MT 12V 11T CW New for... (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Heavy-Truck-Delco-Remy-8200308-Starter-39MT-12V-11T-CW-New-for-Cummins-/303033954279)
I called and he confirmed it would work on my 2001 ISM11
Roger,
On your link that part is out of stock and it was a great price. When looking for the starter you need to look for a Genuine Delco Remy 39MT. There a lot of aftermarket and refurbished ones out there. The Genuine starters range from $275 to almost $400 out there. Then you hope it's free shipping.
John M.
John M.
Being proactive I ordered the starter today.
John, I went there and it says there are two available, but the shipping is local pickup only.
Sounds like a good idea. I ordered one for $280 at the Ebay link. I called the vendor to verify that it is a genuine Delco and that it was new and that it would fit on a 2001 ISM11. OK on all accounts. Ask him to ship and he will. $10 to MN. Shipped within 2 hours using FedEx.
His phone number is (763) 226-3205. He said he has more.
Photos of what he shipped.
Glad it went well. It should last another 20 years.
Mine arrived today.
Roger,
You are going to like it.
John M.
I ordered one yesterday also! Should be here next week... hopefully it won't be a booger to install
Keith,
It was a simple installation. The hardest part was taking out the old one. The old starter is over 100 pounds. I had my wife help me with the weight using a guide rope from above. The new one went in easy with room to spare and I was able to get it up and bolted without any help. It was a breeze. Just make sure you raise the coach high enough to pull the breaker bar.
John M.
Hecho a mexico, so must be good.
JohnH
Really??? How does that quality control work?
Think about it!
JohnH