While working on the coach this weekend, it appears that the original fridge has bit the dust. The burner area was covered with a yellow dust, which if memory serves means it is dead on arrival. I want to put in a residential unit and have a couple of questions. Since I don't want to have major cabinet work and there is limited space, I am looking at units in the 10 cubic ft range. Any recommendations, things to look for, etc. Also would a separate inverter for the unit make sense? Most of the time we are pole to pole but want to try getting away from that a little more.
I won't have time to get this fixed before the trip after Memorial day, but need to have it by this fall when we are planning 3 weeks wandering.
Thanks for all the help and advice,
Larry
Some smaller sized fridges mentioned in this thread:
What small residential fridge fits through the door? (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=35435)
A second inverter will work if you want to shut the bigger inverter off while not plugged in. If you are pretty much pole to pole it can be added later. A residential refrigerator will use about 65 watts per hour or 125 amp hrs per day. If you want to run it on battery through the inverter you may want to add additional battery capacity. Check to see what type of inverter you have. New residential refrigerators work better on pure sine wave inverters. Your's may be a modified sine wave type.
Make sure the refrigerator doors clear everything that could be in the way. There are several 10 cu ft choices. Just because they are smaller doesn't mean they use less power, they use about the same.
We like our bigger 19 cu ft Samsung. If go decide to go that way please see Another Samsung installed (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=22462.0)
The refrigerator we used has been replaced by a newer model
Samsung RF18HFENBSR 33 Inch Counter Depth French Door Refrigerator with Twin... (https://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/RF18HFENBSR.html)
Shop for price and delivery options. A local appliance store matched a HD sale price, had them in stock and delivered it for free. Be sure to use a countertop depth model (about 24" deep without the doors)
I installed an 18 cu ft Samsung in our U320 and we are extremely happy. Width and depth were perfect for the existing hole left by our old Dometic. I did need to lower the floor and essentially eliminate the cabinent underneath, but I didn't consider that to be major cabinent work. I removed the window in the dining area to get the new refrigerator inside. We use our existing Magnum inverter to power the new refrigerator and have 540 Watts of solar on the roof. If we ever do extended dry camping we will need to upgrade battery and solar capacity.
We also did the Samsung redo, much like Roger but was able to put a sliding drawer under the new fridge. I use a dedicated 1000 W inverter for the new unit. Also have 400 Watts of solar on the roof. Works for us.
We installed the Samsung 19.4, French 3 door, wife says best feature now of the FT, no regrets. It is a couple inches deeper than the 18, trimmed it off, no problem (see picture).
Picture with scratches at top are not scratches, just had not removed protective film yet in this picture. That being said I wish I had ordered the black stainless as it is more resistant to fingerprints.
Samsung 33 in. W 19.4 cu. ft. French Door Refrigerator in Stainless Steel-RF2... (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Samsung-33-in-W-19-4-cu-ft-French-Door-Refrigerator-in-Stainless-Steel-RF20HFENBSR/205541436?cm_mmc=SEM%7CG%7CBase%7CD29A%7CMulti%7CGeneric%7CDSA%7CNo+Audience%7c71700000032417787%7c58700003839021362%7c39700030730043793&gclid=Cj0KCQjwoInnBRDDARIsANBVyAQgg1xFK0VorHd4cHnrnbzepy_ZA4I6IYukr0E06x0vifrjuzA6AKYaAoegEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds)
I know many that have used this fridge from Lowes made by Haier. If you have the smaller 2 door refrigerator it will fit in your coach with very little work to finish it off. It comes in white, black and stainless. It is a Haier 9.8-cu ft Top-Freezer Refrigerator. Lowes will deliver right to your coach and put it in place. Just have everything ready. You will need to figure out how to lock it down in place and trim it out. This fridge has a lot of room inside compared to your old unit. Check it out. Here is the link.
John M.
Haier 9.8-cu ft Top-Freezer Refrigerator (Stainless) at Lowes.com (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Haier-9-8-cu-ft-Top-Freezer-Refrigerator-Stainless/1000366389)
The 20 cu ft model is two inches deeper than our 18 cu ft model and while it would have fit in our space the extra depth would have made it a little uncomfortable when walking by or getting items out. We are thankful we went with the counter-depth model.
Don't know if you have the side by side or the the top freezer arrangement to replace. We installed a dedicated pure sine wave inverter and a Whirlpool (on sale at Home Depot for $399) stainless. Used the walnut panels to make the trim pieces. A little rounding out at the top for fit. Easy latch for travel lock.
Whatever one you choose, the depth of the doors is something to pay attention to. It protrudes out into the walking area and can be a problem/irritant. The DW says it's the best thing we have done.
How Wide is the current unit?
The pictured unit is 24 wide.
If it's like our 1995 U320 then the opening is about 33" wide which let the 18 cu ft Samsung fit perfectly.
Larry, if you have the side by side dometic and don't want do do extensive cabinet work I would
Suggest you look closely at the unit Roger used
We used the 14.7 LG unit but I built cabinet drawers beside the refrigerator for storage since we put a dryer in the pantry location
Chris
Thanks everyone for your input and advice as well as all the links. I believe the unit I have is 24" wide X 59" tall. (Wrote the Numbers down and left them in the coach.) Since were not full timing I don't believe we need a very large unit as well as the area we have for the fridge is limited by our floor plan. It looks quite similar to Alan Ortiz pictures, with very little room to spare on the right side but more room on the left if I make the doors swing that way, like what is in there.
I appreciate all your help and will be doing my research with greater ease thanks to all of you. When I do this project, I will post my results.
Larry
Lowes, etc has fridges (about $400) to fit your space and we have had one for 7 years.
Here is our installation:
Replacing an Absorbsion Refrigerator with a Residential unit in a 1997 U270 (http://bit.ly/2CxM7DG)
The little Insigna 9.3 fits through the door and fits your space . Look back through the thread for the details .
I just ordered the Haier 9.8 top freezer refrigerator from Lowe's. It should fit in the opening with minimum modification. Since I have the Magnum ME 2512 Inverter which is a modified Sine Wave inverter, should I get a separate pure wave sine inverter? If so, what size is needed/best for this fridge? Am I correct in assuming that this unit will run while driving &/or from the house batteries without shore line hook up. From what I read in the above links, I think I'm correct, but I have my self doubts.
Thanks, Larry
Most old freedoms internal contactors are worn from use and no longer transfer full power in charging. 30%? loss. Mine and Amos Harrison both lost that much charging power
Lots of wires inside to find, source and replace the "points" inside a non full wave, non BTMS unit.
If on generator that means additional run time to charge your batteries.
.44 gph on a 10k gen.
Some fridges don't operate in temperatures outside the range of room temps. I swapped in an Avanti 10 cu ft model from Home Depot. It had two problems:
The small tunnel from the freezer that cools the fridge would freeze shut. Icy up top and warm below was a frequent occurrence where humidity was a factor.
The fridge would sometimes shut off if it fell below 50 outside or go above 90. The shut-off sensor must have been close to bottom and back of the fridge which was near an outside vent from the previous gas fridge.
My friend possibly had a Haier that he bought for the garage. The fridge wouldn't work in the winter and would spoil his frozen food.
Pricier fridges (Whirlpool) supposedly have a heating element in them to get rid frost and can compensate for extreme temps.
Since you've ordered the fridge, read the manual and check about garage use. The cheaper fridges have a caution statement.
I agree, on my Haier the control unit for the refrigerator is in the bottom of the appliance and I knew cold temps could be an issue. Vented that area well to the inside of the coach and keep coach at 60 degrees inside if leaving food in coach. If hot and leaving coach in storage plugged in, there is one AC running in coach set to 77.
Local storage where I keep coach is under a shed roof and plugged in, so usually stuff just stays in refrig.
Tim Fiedler
Gen-Pro.biz
630 240-9139
I installed the whirlpool 10 cubic ft one and it is plenty big enough for most people. I use a 1000 watt pure sine inverter to power that fridge and another outlet by driver and the audio and tv system with no problems for years. We hardly have the tv on ever as we would be staying home if we wanted to spend our time watching it instead of travelling.
If you look at Beam alarm and go to the modification page then look for "adding an extra Inverter" and following that you should be good.
I made up a door lock system that is so simple and effective (and actually hardly noticable). You should be able to find it in the records along with my change over.
JohnH
In addition to Bob_B, ...
Fridges use to have their condenser coils up the back side, which is ideal for our RV installation space that is designed for propane fridges. Outside air flows in the side and up the back and out the roof. This keeps all the heat outside the RV living space. But this may not work as well when outside air is very hot. Our Whirlpool (similar to Haier) 10 cu 24"x60" fridge has these external coils up the backside and has worked flawlessly for 7 years in all outside temps. We did mount a couple of large almost-silent 'computer' fans on the backside of the lower air vent door to force outside air into space on the back of fridge and over coils. We turn on these fans with a manual switch in the kitchen when it is hot out.
BTW, our 10cu propane & now electric fridge has never felt too small for our 24 years of full-time living. Even though we dry camp, we feel the benefits of no-fire-risk & no-coil-defrost makes it a win. The only downside of electric is that we can now have all the ice cream we want.
Many fridge designs gather their condenser coils under the fridge and because there is no convection air flow, a fan blows room air over coils and back into the living space. This allows a fridge to be tightly installed with no need for air space around it. It may make the inside of the room warmer.
All fridges (& air conditioners) have to get rid of the heat they remove from the inside. Some fridges put the condenser coils against the inner-sides of the metal case of the fridge and let room air convect up the sides to remove the heat. This type does better with some air space around the outside of the metal 'box'.
All of these refrigerators are designed to be installed in a stick-home with sine-wave electricity and recommended air space requirements. Being in a stationary home, no provision is made for locking doors or immobilizing. In fact, most have rollers to ease moving. RV installations also require sealing the perimeter to keep outside air from leaking into living space. We did leave both motorhome's outside rear vents open.
Good point about leaving the outside vents intact. Believe most people just close them up when they install an electric fridge, and don't realize that the heat that was removed from that hot six pack you put in the fridge, is now being transferred to the interior of your coach. No problem, and maybe a advantage in cooler weather, but in hot weather, your ac's have to remove the heat from that 6 pack, as well as normal coach heat.
Fridge vents - two schools of thought. Seems to me to be 6 of one - half dozen the other.
Leave the vents open, and you are getting fresh air - hot or cold depending on season - coming into the coach. Air which then must be "conditioned" by your climate control system.
Close the vents, and you have to remove the heat removed by the fridge from the hot 6-pack.
I believe I would rather deal with the heat thrown off by the fridge. Compared with the heat gain from our single pane windows, what comes from the fridge is insignificant (IMHO).
I closed off our vents when we installed our Samsung. Whatever heat it makes is not noticed by us.
When I installed mine, it was a bit smaller the the original, so there was an air space on all sides of the fridge. I then installed trim between the cabinet and the fridge. This basically put the fridge in a vented box, not connected to the interior of the coach. So the heat stays in that box and rises to the roof vent.
Also put a thermostatic fan on the lower vent, but don't think it is necessary.
Of course it depends on your new fridge, whether or not this is feasible.
I took the opposite approach. Our Samsung is designed to operate in a home environment and so that's what I provided for it. I closed and sealed the openings to the outside that were there for the absorption refrigerator and insulated that space to match the other wall and ceiling insulation. I am happy to keep the interior sealed from the exterior to the maxomum extent possible.
Our Danfoss based Vitrifrigo marine fridge (12VDC/120VAC) has the cooling package at the bottom in the back of the fridge. It has feet on the bottom but mounts with a flange to the cabinet trim on the top and sides. I put weather stripping across the bottom front so that the coach living space is completely sealed from the outside. I left the back and top vents open, but if we were ever caught camping in the new ice age (the only way we would stay where it is THAT cold!), I would block off the bottom vent or at least restrict the air movement through it. I have yet to put fans in, though it is on my project list, because we do occasionally find ourselves where it gets warm. When I installed the Vitrifrigo fridge, I took great pains to line the fridge compartment with extra insulation and aluminum sheet metal throughout with all the seams taped, and joints caulked. My working theory is that the space behind the fridge is a weather protected indoor/outdoor area that is separate from the living space. If the fridge vented to the front, I would have to rethink that theory. Having it vent to the outside was one of my criteria for choosing it over the similar form factor Novakool, which is also Danfoss based, and by all accounts, a fine unit. So far, so good for the past (almost to the day!) five years.
Don
I made a slide insulation door (vent opening similar to Rogers) behind side vent then mounted 2 small fans that will blow air over the cooling fins in addition to the fan that was already there plus I put a small fan in the ceiling to help suck the warm air out. I can close the side vent by removing vent cover, pull insulation sheet down and the top will close with a cam lever in the top cabinet beside the refrigerator. My thought was it may need some extra cooling in summer but I could close it off in winter if I didn't need it!
Chris
I left the side vent 90% closed up but added an insulated slide up door on the inside. So the side is effectively sealed. I added a slide open/close vent to the roof top vent. Nice to have it closed in the winter and open in the summer. The refrigerator heat has to go somewhere, with the Samsung it goes up and out. I did not seal up around the refrigerator, Trim is about 1/8" away, open at the bottom. Every refrigerator has specs for clearance, do what they say.
We copied Barry and Cindy (thanks Barry!) and installed a 10 CF Whirlpool in place of the original Dometic. I had to do a very minor amount of cabinet work (widened the opening by 1/2" as I recall) and left the original venting in place (open from the side up to the roof, since the Whirlpool has the condensing coils in the back. No problems running in 20 deg or 110 deg weather.
I installed a separate 1 KW true sine inverter for the fridge, but left the fridge plug free to connect to either the 1 KW inverter, the main Magnum true sine house inverter, or shore power. Hedging bets is always a good idea, so if either inverter fails, we still have a working fridge. That was 7 years ago, and it's still working fine.
For mounting, I fastened a piece of 3/4" plywood under the fridge and screwed the fridge base down to it. At the top I used 3M VHB tape to fasten two pieces of 1/8" x 1.5" aluminum strap to the top of the fridge, and they are fastened to the side of the steel collar bonded into the top of the fridge vent.
I also added a manually operated roll down awning that I hang from 2 small hooks just under the roof line to cover the outside wall of coach were the fridge is. When we are parked in Mexico for a few months at our friends place, the driver side of coach gets a lot of sun right where the fridge is so this covers it and a bit more either side of the "footprint" and makes a big difference in transfered heat thru body of coach. Simple roll up and remove when leaving and put it in bay.
JohnH
Our Samsung refrig has screw down feet for leveling the front side to side to make sure the doors align properly. I put flat bottomed holes in my base for the feet to fit into when screwed down. Rock solid, locked in place, the refrigerator has never moved. No other connections. Simple and effective.
Same with door locks, simple is good.
Lots of folks have come up with good ideas. I like John's driver's side shade. Our refrig is on the pass side.