After being tied up in the city planning department we finally have the permit and have broken ground. Concrete pour is scheduled for Friday, weather permitting. 20'x44'
Are you going to be able to at least stub out a sewer dump piping incase you want to add a sewer lift station in the future?
Mike
X2 I have put the 4" PVC with duct tape over the end about 1/2 " below surface of concrete so inspector could check everything out to their content and I could come back later to do the drain. "Some things they just don't need to know"
Just my 2cnets worth
Chris
Sven, if you are using sliding doors and still can make sure the slab goes out under the doors not just where they are when closed but also where they are are open.
I did the same only 3" pvc to match the house., Have not gotten around to extending it yet. Plumbing inspector would not have allowed it.
There will be a 3' landing (or "apron") in front of each door, per code, that slope away from the door, and the pad will be 6" longer than the building, allowing for 3" on each end.
My sewer clean out is in a front yard depression, which I have used to empty my tanks. The drive way and buried utility lines (elec., gas, telephone and cable) lay between it and the "barn". With the distance, I would have to dig down a ways to get a decent drop. Instead, I may put in the drivway, which will be redone before long. Since I have to channel the 1" sprinkler line across it, I'm glad that I didn't do that earlier.
There is a slope next to the new garage where I could drop a sewer pipe down to my neighbors yard. It would be short and have a decent drop and it might be good for the ice plant! >:D
The foundation pour is scheduled for Tuesday. We are using #4 (1/2") rebar with a 6" slab. I was asked about grooves. I would like to get some opinions on the necessity or desirability of having grooves. Pro: Reduces chance of hairline cracks. Con: Not as easy to sweep, collects dirt, and a real bugger when sliding around on a creeper. I'm interested in hearing from those of you with RV garage floors and what your experience has been.
Regarding the electrical: We are putting in a 60A panel with 6ga 4strand wire, interior and exterior 50A outlets and 20A CBs for smaller outlets and overhead lights.
What is your quoted price per square foot for the finished slab, if you don't mind me asking? Trying to get a feel for roughly how bad it would hurt to do one for our poor old coach.
My shop (coach house) has a fairly smooth floor, it has spacers running the length of building between pours but none running across. My elevation drops 1" from east to west so when I want to power wash the floor the water runs out easily. If I were to build another one I would do the same, I like the smooth floor. When the porch for my house was poured they grooved it and it is a pain when sweeping and I still had hair-line cracks.
good luck with your build and do what you like best on floor because you are the one dealing with it!
Chris
Chuck, in Arkansas six months ago I was quoted 100 Sq Ft
Chris
I did something like this in the shop. When it is all done there is no gap but a thin plastic strip embedded in to the concrete. I used 5000psi concrete with 1/2" rebar (don't recall spacing) 5" thick.
https://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/construction/controlling-cracks-with-plastic-joints_o
We saw cut the smooth steel machined troweled basement floor about 1/4" deep in a 3' grid, acid etched and stained it. Grouted all of the grooves with black flexible grout. Very shallow indents. Looks like giant marble tile.
After the concrete has had time to fully cure seal it with a good sealer.
PS110 Siloxane Water Repellent WB-10 Penetrating Sealer (5 gal.) - Concrete... (https://www.concretesealersusa.com/ps110-siloxane-water-repellent-wb-10-penetrating-sealer-5-gal/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product_search&site=google_base&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg4DTyeC04gIVA7XACh15rwKMEAQYBiABEgKlj_D_BwE)
Concrete for the Barn Slab including site prep, block work and sealing was about $5/sqft. 8 years ago.
my 4 1/2" concrete slab and footings was $4.75 per sqft. installed. and that does not include the patio and pad at man door. I think Chris must have fat fingered his keyboard. Driveway approach was also $4.75.
About $7.50-8.00/sq ft. based on the 44.6 x 20 and apron (slabs) in front of the three doors. Total cost of foundation was around $6500.
Chuck check with some local concrete flatwork guys, as always location, location, location, as your price may vary quite considerably.
Sawn grooves are just you pre-cracking your concrete. Assuming you have stable, non expansive, compacted select fill under the slab, a competent crew who makes sure the rebar is properly embedded in the concrete rather than lying under it, and who places rather than pours the concrete i.e., proper slump with no extra water for workability, you can most likely do without the sawn grooves in a slab this size. Also, keeping the slab wet for a few days will help prevent surface cracks. That said, all this requires a pro team doing the work, most likely under the eye of an engineer who checks each load for slump. It also requires either good all around access for concrete trucks or a pump to help deal with the stiff mix. A rare thing these days on a residential job.
One thing you can do which will almost certainly preclude cracking is to add fibermesh to your mix. I also am a fan of, for a shop area especially, having the finisher "burn" the finish with power trowel leaving you with a slick finish. This also helps prevent surface cracks which can appear while the slab is initially curing.
Like Roger said, grooving and then filling the grooves is a good compromise. I'd use a pourable caulk, Sika makes one. That's the rubber stuff you see in sidewalk joints. Good choice on your electrical btw.
Post #11 was wrong it was suppose to say 100 Cu Yard
Chris
Wow, at 6" thick, Chris' pour would have covered 5,400 sqft. 50'x108'. I want that barn. There was probably a perimeter beam and load footings in there too so maybe a bit smaller.✅
Chris says it is 50x80. I can only dream.
My current barn is 60x50 and I had the rebar and high psi (i don't remember what it is now) poured. It did not have gloves cut in it and it has not yet cracked. I am sure it will someday but right now I am happy with the pour. We were pretty careful in secluding our builder and general contractor as it went up with the house. He has a farm and has built a lot of big structures. I am thinking of putting epoxy down now but I will think on it a bit longer.
My experience with concrete is the only thing guaranteed is a crack. What happened to pricing concrete work by the yard?
Concrete is ordered by the yd, hauled by the yd, and priced by yd. Most homeowners can only relate to $ per sqft, besides it sounds cheaper. Polished concrete is a horrible idea, it always looks terrible, and nothing can fix it.
Until you need to sweep it, then it looks great. It can be quite handsome in itself or stained, built several houses with it to rave reviews. But it all depends on the skill of the finisher. Or the eye of the beholder I suppose.
My shop is hard machine troweled, easier to keep clean.
Downstairs in the house steel machine troweled, acid etched and stained, looks like marble.
The barn is lightly brushed. Not slippery. I use a leaf blower to clean it out
I would like a smooth finish for a couple of reasons. I would like to be able to wipe up any oil, rather than have it seep into the concrete - this might require an epoxy paint or some other sealer. Also, I'd like to easily sweep or blow out debris without it sticking to the surface. I have decided to do without the grooves.
I just put in a 10 x 40 slab for the coach to sit on, and we are not allowed here to have a garage or barn. It is 5" with 1/2 rebar in 16" squares I did all the forming and steel and the concrete is machine trowel finish and I have kept a sprinkler on it for over a week unless it rained and 32 mpi strength concrete. Cost here for 7 cu yds was $160.00 each yd and $550 to lay and finish. I had a plastic expansion strip every 10 ft of length and was laid 2 weeks ago and as we will be gone for at least 3 more weeks it will be 5 weeks before the coach goes on it.
I am going to do a latex finish on top as I have done with garages when building homes, and what I do is mix paint with 25%water and apply then let dry then another layer at 10%water then a final coat of concrete paint. This will have soaked into the concrete and never wear off. No oil will stain the slab and allways washes clean.
Tried tested and proven for me.
JohnH
John,
Looks good, however I will have to 'inspect' it when we get there in July :D
Don
Sorry I was speaking about polished concrete in large commercial multistory buildings, small residential construction may yield decent results
No worries Phred, in fact I agree. It's hard to make it an appearance material its real beauty is in its incredible structural versatility.
They poured the foundation on Tuesday, so we are ready for the building to be delivered from Arizona. Hopefully it will get here next week sometime.
Very nice. Now... some assembly required.
Aren't you in central V.I. B.C.? I'm kind surprised at that kind of restriction. Is there a particular reason for the ban?
Sorry! My mistake on your location.
Sven, I see you didn't use a vapor barrier. That means your slab is very unlikely to develop surface cracks, believe it or not. That's one reason driveways typically don't develop surface cracks and house slabs do. No idea of what the mechanics are other than possibly the barrier inhibits hydration below, and surface cures more quickly leading to stress in the surface.
I had never heard of a vapor barrier contributing to surface cracks. I asked the contractor about it and keeping it wet, but he said it would not make any difference. The half inch rebar and six inches of slab should minimize any cracking and if any occur, it would likely be a hairline crack, cosmetic at worst. I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out: it is uniformly white and very smooth. I would like to more about sealants and floor paint to prevent oil absorption.
I talked to Absolute Steel and it looks like my building should arrive the week of the 17th. With the floor in, I'm getting antsy.
After the concrete has had time to fully cure seal it with a good sealer.
PS110 Siloxane Water Repellent WB-10 Penetrating Sealer (5 gal.) - Concrete... (https://www.concretesealersusa.com/ps110-siloxane-water-repellent-wb-10-penetrating-sealer-5-gal/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product_search&site=google_base&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg4DTyeC04gIVA7XACh15rwKMEAQYBiABEgKlj_D_BwE)
Good move on the polished surface. You may find you really don't need any coating at all. The comment about vapor barriers referred to curing surface cracks only, not structural. Being the founder and former owner of a major foundation drilling company near Houston has given me perspective on some of the unusual characteristics of concrete. I'm not surprised you never heard of this one, most people haven't.
The sealer you linked is not an oil or stain repellant. The company does offer another product which would cost about $500 for 4 gallons and shipping! Ouch.
Shop Concrete Sealers - Product Type - Oil & Stain Repellents - Concrete... (https://www.concretesealersusa.com/product-type/oil-stain-repellents/)
That stuff is mostly to help protect the concrete from salt and winter crud. It works pretty well, I am not sure anything is going to be entirely effective against oil spots. I save big cardboard pieces an slide then under the motor and transmission. Low tech. works fine. If I get a drip it helps pinpoint it.
Your perfect new floor will have scratches and a spot or two before you get the barn done. It's a barn. :)
The garage frame and roof is finished and ready to ship. I was recently notified that a boom truck (for unloading) would not be available and that they were going to ship it in a box truck with a lift gate (!) with me unloading it by hand. I attached a photo of my building on the ground in Arizona at Absolute Steel. Needless to say, I'm pretty unhappy with this development, considering that I contracted with the company with the understanding that load would be put on the ground.
I am going back to the original estimate that shows a semi with trailer would be delivering it, but I will have to rent a forklift to do the heavy lifting. We'll see how that goes.
The reason for my sharing the process (from beginning to end) is for anyone contemplating such a project.
Your "sharing" is MUCH appreciated by me, and I am sure many others. I HOPE to pursue a similar project
some day, and seeing all the many steps in getting it done really helps me get a clear mental picture of what exactly is involved.
You should title that photo (above): "Some Assembly Required" (no reference intended to the stupid TV series)
Typical. It seems nowdays when a supplier or contractor actually follows the deal they have committed to its cause for astonishment and celebration. Tell em they loaded the box truck they can unload it as well. Definitely not something you want to do by hand. Nfw. Potential for damage to you and your materials. Flatbed at least.
Any chance your erection contractor could unload and place the materials where they want them?
Enjoying your build thread, lots of good info.
Thanks for sharing your project. I appreciate it. I looked at several construction variations and went with stick built because we could do it ourselves. When I built my shop I looked at structural insulated panels for the roof and walls with a 6x18" center roof beam, 36' long. Materials would have been cheaper. I would have had a building in 2 days. But the cost of a crane and erecting crew made it much more expensive in the long run.
A steel framed building is very nice. Please post pictures along the way.
getting 13 foot structural members out of a box truck, the liftgate will be useless. why it would take me all day with lots of breaks to bust up the bundles and carry it out piece by piece. what fool would ship it that way, cant drag & fork it out without risking bending them.
"Any chance your erection contractor could unload and place the materials where they want them? "
We're the erection team. I want to see how far I can go doing it with a little help from Kristi and a couple of friends during critical phases. I can get an off road forklift with telescoping boom for the rafter/stud sections and a scissor lift for working overhead. I've talked to a couple of contractors who won't touch the project.
The purpose of a vapor barrier, somewhat misnamed, is to prevent the ground from absorbing the water out of the concrete and interfereing with the hydration process.
They wet the soil (soaked) before the pour, hopefully that took care of it. Good information for those planning a project.
Exactly. Modifies the hydration process. Unbalanced cure leads to stress in air exposed top surface= shrinkage cracks.
Sven, do you have any kind of auto screw feeder for the 3 million screws you will be driving? I have one I can loan, but you will most likely need to get the proper nosepiece for it. It's a Quik Drive.
On a night, with a full moon, at midnight, throw some blue pills at it; it will erect itself.
Best response I've seen on this post in two years!
Finally getting ready to go up. Kristi and I experimented with the first section and tomorrow ("erection day") a couple of friends will help erect the rest of it. It has been a long road, but we had to wait until the temps got up to around 100. Always wanted an erector set....
Looks great! Brings back memories lol...
(https://www.foreforums.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=4286)
(https://www.foreforums.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=4287)
Looks great. I have seen Susan do the same dance as Kristi is doing. It is great that you are doing this together with the help of friends.
Cuure do you have a pic of it finished?
Sven,
Are you using 4,000 PSI crete? 6 inch with wire mesh poured right will have no issues concerning weight. It really needs to be cooled with water for three days to cure before loading it. I am not sure why you would need to follow municipal codes if not listed with the secretary of State as a corporation? You can also add accelerator to the mix if you like, not much difference in cost.
Hdff
Here is the finished barn. 20x40x14
(https://www.foreforums.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=4288)
We are well past the concrete stage. We used #4 (1/2") rebar, 6" thick, 18" on the perimeter. It has cured for about a month now. It is 4000 PSI.
Looks great!
With the help of a couple of friends (thanks "rbark"), we got it up in an hour and a half.
Looking at your photo of the erected framework, I had a terrible thought. If it was me I'd have somebody remove that big old dead tree.
Wouldn't want it to blow down in a storm and damage the new barn! :o
Be sure you add some bracing until the rest of the structure and roofing and siding is on.
Very interesting to see
It has been a topic of conversation between us and the neighbor for over a year. It will cost over $2000 to remove, since they would need a boom to cut it. We may have to loan them the money to do it, or at least pay for removing the limbs on our side. As it stands, the tree has a slight lean to the opposite direction and the seasonal Santa Ana winds will also come from our side. It is also further to the rear of the structure. I was tempted to give it a push with the reach fork lift.
Some assembly required. What do you do when it is over 100 degrees and 75% humidity......wear a hat. This was taken a few days ago; I've since installed half of the "hat channels" (for laying roof panels on) and the girts on the back wall. I may have to rent the scissor lift for another week.
Your building is very nice.
It has been a long summer with a couple of delays due to visitors, but I'm pretty much done with may part and am ready to hand it over to the stucco guys. Great having a level concrete floor which I can finally use a creeper on.
Great looking structure. Sounds like the normal heartache and happiness of any personal project. I did my "Barn" 4 years ago. I find concrete is much better to work on than gravel and cardboard. However, I have not used a creeper as much as I had thought I would. (Don't want grease blobs on my floor.) Most work is now catching up on 20-years of sunshine on the Gelcoat.
Glad someone has already mentioned that dead tree. Immediately bothered me.
My building skin and structure is a modified arched building with slanted straight sides. Taos County demanded that I carry the same snow load as the Ski Valley 20 miles away and 2,000 ft higher. Anyway, the angle of the sides presented a perfect winter capture platform to mount my solar array. I have a 12H x 14W overhead door, which is irritatingly small when backing in. (This door was tougher to position and install than erecting the building.) Insulation is fiberglass on flexible polyurethane skin/vapor barrier in 6'x12' rolls, put in place with the help of a local high school junior All-American defensive end and scaffolding. (He is now a Marine.) I use a 4" drier exhaust vent through an end wall and a 4" hose connected to the tailpipe when running the engine inside during winter. (Only used it twice.)
Rather than the before-mentioned blue pills, I invited my retired firefighter brother (Firemen can do anything.) and my retired aircraft assembler sister (She's smarter than us boys, and can solve almost any problem--including arguments between me and my brother.) when it was my turn to host the family reunion again. (I had done the same trick 12 years before for our arched house shell, using them and 2 1/2 sections of scaffolding on wheels. So, perhaps my sister is not as smart as I believe she is. Again, my sister controlled the winch on the 4-wheeler to help raise each arch. As I recall, there was nearly, it seemed, 2,000 nuts and bolts connecting each arch to the adjacent one. An 18-pack helped get four arches up a day. End walls were constructed after siblings departed. 2x6s, 3/4" OSB, covered in black paper, chicken wire, and green stucco.) We live in a forest, on a road which UPS refuses to deliver; metal buildings seem a good idea to me.
Judicious measurement affords proper placement of built-in storage not conflicting with those flop-open storage doors on our older models of FTs. You may wish to consider front-first and back-in positions. In my 45-foot long interior, I have a few feet to play with when I park my 36' U270 and have the engine door up.
Whenever the Barn big door is open, it presents a blinking sign to my passing neighbors to stop by and see what I am doing....
With the RV parked, as in the photo, I have four feet of clearance on each end. My intention is to back it in, as we did with fire engines and I intend to paint a yellow line on the floor which I will "trace" with my left tires. With some badly placed bushes and a rock out in the front, I will attempt to back it in before removing them. I have enough room to pass between the barn and house to the lower lot where I can turn around before heading back up to do the back in. Hopefully it will work. Once the stucco is done, manual sectional doors will be installed on the two larger openings. The city will install a 1" meter so that I can trench a line for the sprinkler system (not my idea), which will be installed later. Lots of "small" stuff still have to be done: Overhead LED shop lights, outlets, gravel (for now) driveway to garage, new concrete driveway for house, path for walk in door, etc, can be done in time. I'm just glad to get the rig out of the sun and have a good place to work on it. Still working on the neighbor about that tree.
Looks great, Sven.
Looks great!!! I envious.......
Looks good, i am also backing in thru a 12 ft wide door, pretty easy even with an arc in the approach. Intend to do the painted stripe thing, sorry about the misfortune of the fire sprinkler system as it is pretty much worthless for a vehicle fire, unless they are motorcycles, but you even have to protect above a swimming pool. No exceptions for common sense.
We back in more than 400 ft through two 90° corners and through a 12 ft door. I have a orange line on the floor of the barn. It helps but backing into the barn is like backing into a black hole. Even with all the lights on it is hard. Late in the day it is easier. Mid day we open the side sliding doors and the back door as well. That helps.
First time was about twenty tries to get lined up. Truth is you just need to start close and it is pretty easy to make adjustments. Practice makes perfect. I can do it now in one shot.
I've probably backed a fire engine, truck, water tender, crash rescue (airport), or brush rig into a fire station over a thousand times in my career. We had yellow lines painted and a cradle for the back wheel to let us know we were "there". The main consideration is lining up the rig before it begins to enter the building whenever possible. It helps not to have an upward swinging cabinet door open when you back in. The most challenging one was backing a 45' aerial ladder truck into an old fire house (narrow opening) with an 8' apron on a two lane (one each way) residential street. I've never had to back 400' around two 90 degree bends however.
Barn update: We're wrapping it for the stucco. My plan to sit back and watch was predictably a dream. I'm back to screwing metal lath (every 6") into metal again.
Looks good. Have you considered doing an epoxy coating (with that yellow stripe) on the floor to prevent staining and easy cleaning?
No matter how much experience, Backing into black holes is never fun. My gracious friend who allows me to use his breezeway to park our coach is a black hole for sure. I have 1 foot (max) on each side of the coach when it's centered. Slow and easy as well as a few trips out to lay eyes when I back it in.
I had my line out onto the driveway. Painted it after sealing the driveway, it lasted about one season. The part in the barn was done before sealing. It is holding up well. I have a very obvious mark on the barn wall that I see through the passengers window. When it lines up with the front edge of the window I stop. I had some stops for the rear wheels but I didn't trust them.
Roger, thanks for the recommendation. I was put off when I read that it was not intended as an oil repellant - that is my main concern with the floor. I've been reading about silicate and siliconate sealers. The finish I'm looking for would resemble the floors in Lowe's and HD. The problem with any film type (as opposed to penetrating) sealer is that they need to be redone every few years. Once, treated, I don't want to have to "revisit" the issue - I already have enough recurring maintenance chores with vehicles.
Our floors downstairs were hard steel troweled until they were very smooth with swirls. Then we saw cut a 3x3 grid into the floor, maybe 3/8" deep. Then the floors were acid etched and stained. When all of that was dry (and the concrete was thoroughly cured (more than a year) we grouted all the cut lines, let that dry and we did a commercial sealer and a commercial finish top coat. Not high gloss but a satin look. It looks like 3x3 marble slabs.
The barn gets swept, hosed out or blown with a leaf blower. There are some spots. More from painting the big sliding doors than drips. I have one silver dollar sized spot on the driveway from an oil drip. That is now fixed and I got most of the spot off. It is a barn. My drive way is class 5 limestone. If I am going to make a mess I move the coach out to the parking area in front of my shop.
To clean new oil drips on my bare concrete, I use spray on brake cleaner, then wipe.
Why not have a drain pan made up. Cost would be low. Save floor stains. Also reduce slip hazards.
Maybe 2 to cover width of rv. And allow total coverage. Have lip of pan say 2" rolled edge to make it cut resistant. Common usage in aircraft hangers.
A useful addition to the coach house is one of these rolling scaffolds. About $100 when on sale from northern tool. Great for working on coach or coach house.
Adding a shell up high for lightweight stuff that only gets seasonal use
I Put a shelf around the upper part of my last garage and it is amazing how much you can store up there out of the way.
JohnH
I've seen these at HF. Looks like a good idea. I have two detached sheds and a 20'x4' lean to shed. When I thought about building another, it occurred to me that I would be filling it with stuff. Since then, we have been going through our sheds and getting rid of things that "might come in handy some day". Having a lot of storage can be a trap. With our earthquakes, I'm being very careful about having high storage.
We carry small drain pans to put under our "slobber tube" when parked on nice concrete. We had about four large ones under each fire engine in the stations, and there was always oil on the concrete. When backing in, oil from the "slobber tube" (down draft tube) can dribble all along the length of the floor. Aircraft are usually rolled into hangers with engines off, so I can see how this would work for them. Other problem with the drain pans is trying to maneuver around them on a creeper.
After about six months of construction and more than a year since the permit application was filed, the barn is essentially done. We still have to install the sprinkler system and come up with a plan for driveway. Concrete is the obvious choice, but it is expensive and can't be re-routed once down. To the right of the barn, is an access way to the lower lot where I am able to drive the RV to turn around, etc. We are considering DG and gravel. If gravel, any recommendations on size?
If it's an option in your area, consider doing road base plus chip and seal. We had that 2 houses ago and it worked well for our coach. It was pretty common in Texas as many of the smaller local roads are done in chip and seal.
Looks great!
I have done both gravel and dg in my yard. The gravel seems to never settle and the adobe underneath when wet pumps up through the gravel when I drove my truck over it. The dg lays flat and worked better for me. It depends on your sub base material.
Very nice looking coach house, Sven. Enjoy!
We put 5" 5000 psi rebar and fiberglass reinforced concrete in front of the barn so that we had an outside place for the coach to work on it, wash, load, unload etc. Nice to have. The rest of the 400' or so of drive way is 12" or more of 3" minus Class 5 limestone with 10-12" of 3/4" minus Class 5 limestone. When it thaws in the spring there are a few days when it is soft. It gets graded and smoothed. The rest of the year it is very hard. It is OK with us. The alternative would be asphalt, concrete or pavers. Grass and weeds grow in it. Snowblowing before it is frozen can toss some gravel into the woods.