Foretravel Owners' Forum

Hi everyone,

I have spoken with Barry (of beamalarm, though I think just saying Barry is enough in this forum) about possibly purchasing his 2003 U320, but I had a few questions I wanted to ask the community.

I am very aware of the value of his coach especially given all the work he has done on it, how well he has maintained it and the extensive documentation he has done about every little thing he has done --- actually even things he has not yet done but wanted to document just in case he would ever need to do that task!!! To me and others like me that like to tinker and would often work on it myself, it is undeniable what all that is worth and way more than his asking price.

My question though is what do you think the current MARKET rate would be for his 2003 U320 40'? It is easy to find what many private sellers are asking for with similar years and models but there is a wide range and we don't know what prices they actually sell for. If you can weigh in on actual experiences you have had buying and/or selling similar years and models, I would appreciate your feedback.

I am asking this because this would be my first rv of any kind and it only makes financial sense for me if I full-time (at least right now). Since this would be such a change, I can not be certain I won't find full-timing isn't right for me and then if I don't fulltime I may need to sell it. I am hoping that even when I am done full timing, I would be able to keep it, but it is something that financially I couldn't do right away.

So I am saying all of this because Barry hasn't had many potential buyers (in southern California) at his list price of 125k and then later reduced to 112k. The nada value is 102k but I know it isn't a very good metric for foretravels since they aren't mass produced and widely sold. I would be concerned that if I buy it but end up needing to sell it for some reason that I would have a hard time doing so without taking a significant loss. Not because it isn't worth far more than probably even 125k, but because there may not be enough potential buyers that would appreciate its true value. For me, I am not turned off by the fact that it is 16 years old and has 177k miles on it because I know Barry has kept it up so well (I can't imagine anyone keeping it up better!) and the quality of the foretravel build and components. However, I just don't if there are many potential buyers that are in the market for an older coach that would know nada undervalues foretravels and can spend over over 110k. I would expect to take some loss due to depreciation, but I couldn't afford to lose much more than an estimated 10% yearly depreciation (depreciated calculated based on various data sources).

So if any of you could weigh in on what you think buyers would actually pay for a 2003 U320 40', I would appreciate that. Please know that I am not asking what it's value is, because I feel pretty confident it is worth well over his asking price, I am asking what is the actual market rate for such a coach given the typical buyers in the market. If you have sold one recently or know someone that has, I would really appreciate your feedback about your selling experience and final sell price. Please include the year, model and length if you reply.

By the way, I am most likely going to purchase it (trying to arrange financing) and look forward to becoming an active member and meeting many of you as a newly proud foretravel owner. I am just trying to do my due diligence about the actual market value and make sure I am not putting myself in a financial situation I can't get out of. 

Also, I will be posting another topic to ask about good lenders that aren't afraid of older coaches. I am looking for a longer term loan 10-15 years and have good but not excellent credit. If you can help with that please post there too. Link: https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=36892.new#new

Thank you all and again I look forward to joining your community as a new foretravel owner!
Adam

There are so so many answers for this question.....  my father was a new car dealer in CA and Texas... he absolutely loved the used car/vehicle side of the business because of the variables involved with " selling" the car....  a used SUV sells at a higher price in Colorado than in downtown Los Angeles.. a sail boat sells at a higher price in Galveston Texas than in Phoenix AZ...

A used Edsel has a buyer eventually.  It's just about WHEN the seller and the buyer come to an agreement about its value...

Special Editions, Custom interiors, well maintained ,excellence in manufacturing...  all increase the asking price...  but like houses..  if there is ONLY one buyer interested in what your selling.... than the buyer is in control of the sale.. multiple offers, bidding wars.. means the seller is in control of the sale...

If this coach has been for sale for some time...  and the price is dropping from its original posted price.... it will eventually get to your budget if you are the only interested buyer.  But beware.  The price may drop enough to create silent observers to suddenly become interested and get in the game... and than the market value changes again.    Hope this help.

If I were in the market to buy I would have probably already offered at least $110 k, based upon what I've read about the coach. However, you are at a disadvantage because of needing to finance the coach. If you are seriously interested then discuss it with your credit union and then offer Barry whatever you and the credit union can come up with.

On an older coach condition and upkeep are the most important thing.  The Blue Book is just a formula for all coaches the ones kept well and those that sit and have never had an upgrade.  They are the same. Only you can tell if you think the difference from a bone stock non upgraded coach is for you.

Don't put too much value in NADA values they have no real basis, they are always way lower than what you can buy a coach for. They do not reflect what people are currently paying for Foretravels.
Motorhomes of Texas is a somewhat indicator of what pricing is so you should look at their adverts.
Then as I say to people buying homes, do the math, if you were to buy one at MOT and do all the upgrades you want to do, what price will you be really paying for the coach?
It's sometimes cheaper to pay more and get way more than you would ever spend on a coach.
It's not an investment, it's a purchase for your enjoyment and a lifestyle.
The Foretravel are built like tanks using the best equipment available, powered by engines designed to run garbage trucks daily for years, the original purchase price is equivalent to just over half a million adjusting for insulation.
Good luck with your search
David

It seems to me you have answered your own question. Do as David Osborn suggested.

Adam,

I can understand your concern - paying $100,000+ for anything is a big decision (for most of us "normal" people).  Paying that kind of money to jump into a unknown situation, like owning a large motorhome, is not something to be taken lightly.  If you try to justify your purchase on a purely financial basis, it may not ever make any sense.  In the motorhome market, it is extremely rare to find a gauranteed "Buy Low - Sell High" vehicle.  Motorhomes are not a good investment.  At best, you will burn up a continuous stream of money owning and maintaining them.  At worst, they can be a bottomless money pit.

When we bought our Foretravel, it was our first ever RV of ANY kind.  We could not have been any more ignorant purchasers.  Still, it has worked out well for us.  Going on 5 years of ownership, we are still enjoying our RV.  For us, the purchase price was a lot of money, and since then we have doubled down on our bet by making elective upgrades to our coach.  If we had to sell it today, we would only get back half of what we have in it, but that's OK with us.  We bought it to shake up our life a little, and to gain exposure to a different way of travel.  We have accomplished that, plus we made some new Forum friends along the way.  For us, the experience has justified the expense.

Only you can decide what is a "fair" price for a given used coach.  Whatever you pay, 50% of the onlookers will say you got a good deal, and 50% will say you got ripped off.  Don't pay any attention to them - just make a deal that feels right to you (and satisfies the demands of your lender).

Call Jason or Mel at Motorhomes of Texas on Tuesday and they can give you a range of what the coach would sell for on thier lot at retail, but expect the range to be pretty borad based on the condition, upgrades and maintenance history (which is fantastic)

Isn't the coach at MOT now?

I think this is Barry's. There are a handfull of people on this forum who I'd buy a coach from sight unseen: Barry is ONE OF THEM!

Wow! Thank you everyone for your many responses.

I am currently trying to find ways to finance the coach but to no avail. Close, but not quite there yet.

Barry's coach is still in California and I spent several hours yesterday with Barry just getting to know it and each other and it is something we both would like to see happen. He is a great guy and that is an understatement.

D.J. - I'm working on it, thanks. And glad to know you would also purchase at that price.

Tim - I will do that, thank you

Chuck and Jeannie - I certainly am not looking at this as an investment or to make any money since I know motorhomes typically only go down in value. I am assuming to buy at market rate and if I need to later sell it, to also sell it at market rate at that time, which I know will mean a loss due to depreciation and any time and money put into maintaining or repairing it.  For me it just seems better to "throw away my money" in living in a motorhome for many reasons and where at least some of the money can be recouped if sold rather than paying an equivalent rent in LA where I'm stuck in one place and 100% of my money would be thrown away.

Mike and rbark - It looks like I had caught him just in time as he was going to send it to MOT very soon and may still if I can't come up with the funds. Mike, yes I think knowing Barry and how well he took care of his coach would give many confidence to buy it sight unseen. Just trying to verify current market prices given the pool of real potential buyers should I ever need to sell it again. I feel fairly confident he is asking a more than fair price but I lack specific knowledge and experience about such purchases and I am someone who appreciates real data if possible.

I would still like to hear from anyone that has actually been involved or known someone that has recently bought or sold a similar year and model. I know there aren't nearly as many foretravels out there as other coaches, so it may be hard to find someone that has recent experience selling or buying similar coaches as Barry's but it would be great to connect with anyone that has.

Again, I really appreciate all of your responses!

Adam

I have actually worked on his coach with him when they visited our home. I had a pit so was able to walk under it and others. We repaired/replaced the levelling air valves as others have done and I know Barry and Darlene spent a lot of  money replacing  major items that should now never need to be touched. They are careful owners, and as you now know he is a fanatic on doing things right.
There have been a few models of the same or close years sold in the last year and I would put those prices at about $120k to $125k.
I drove a 38 ft tag from British Columbia to Connecticut for the new buyers a couple of years ago and it was priced accordingly.
I would venture to suggest that at the price he is asking , should it go to MOT that price will be adjusted to allow for commission I would hope.
I gather having to finance purchases makes it tough, no matter what.
JohnH

I'll offer the same point of view I do for everyone looking to buy a diesel pusher motorhome. First, I won't speak to the question of financing since virtually any vintage coach will be more difficult to finance than a new coach.

Our perspective is to simply look at what ANY new coach over $100k offers.  There are NO diesel pushers that can even come close.  In fact, most gas V10 coaches of this size will be much more than $100k. And ANY new coach over $100k will be a piece of junk...much less quality and likely 3-6 months of taking the coach back for repairs due to poor quality control.

There is simply no question in our point of view that a well maintained and documented Foretravel is the BEST used Coach one can buy.  BUT...if it's a financial stretch to get to $100k+ to buy it DON'T do it.  ANY vintage coach buyer should be prepared to potentially spend 50-100% more over their ownership for necessary/desired upgrades.  Even then you'll be at least 50% less money invested than a truly comparable new coach with far less quality.

My .02$.  Go to any RV dealer and try to find a new one of the same quality ( and good luck with that).  If it's comparable quality , it'll be WAY more money.
  I would have bought it already if the DW would have let me.  Dang, she always has her foot on the brake 🤪.

I'd price Barry's coach in the $120K price range. But it's actually priceless. You'll be getting a bargain. A rare gem.

Someone once posted don't buy a coach you can't walk away from if there's a major failure. 15 k seems to be a common figure for newer Cummins or Allison repair. That being said even meticulous maintained systems can and do fail. At that point if you can't afford to repair it, it's just salvage value. Many seemingly popular and profitable businesses can't take a major hit and survive.

Are you going to travel if you buy the rig? Extensively? Once in a great while? One or two times per year?

Or just live in it full time locally versus renting a apartment/house?

 I ask because  a diesel pusher sitting long periods of time, not moving, is not great for  seals and systems.  And if using it as a local place to live for most of the year, you are paying for engines, transmission, etc you really don't need, and must maintain.

*If* you are looking for a way to live just locally, versus traveling, A 5th wheel in a local park may be better financially, and easier to maintain. Even with hiring someone to move it versus buying a truck capable of moving it.

If you will be traveling a great deal, what will you tow behind for transportation? Do you have a tow car already set up? Is your current vehicle towable 4 wheels down? Then there are tow bars, brackets, lighting, braking etc to accomplish still before towing.  Or a tow dolly or trailer with current car on it.

We love RVing, but it is not inexpensive.  It is a costly hobby. We full time, so our RV is our full time home.  When we still had a house, plus the RV, it was a lot to maintain overall. And we both worked.  Now that we are both retired, for us, it is either full timing or RVing.

If we buy another house (doubtful), we would need to downsize the RV to class B or Class C for part time vacation use.

Just things to consider. Best of luck in your endeavors.

Again, thank you all for all of your wonderful feedback!

John - Barry had mentioned you when we were talking last week. He mentioned your pit and the work you guys did. That is definitely one of the attractions to buying a foretravel, it seems like there is a very robust and tight community and would love to contribute in my own ways. Thank you for the additional pricing info.

Randy and Bob & Sue - Yes indeed, that is why I am here. I just can't fathom paying so much money for something that is not high quality and for the pricing I can afford, anything new or even within the last 10 years is something that seems like it is taking a huge risk to be a money pit. If it were just a hobby purchase that I would only be using 2-3 weeks per year, then they might be an option, but not for something I plan on living in more or less full time. It isn't a stretch to get the money as long as it is financed and I would still have a fair amount of buffer each month. I have tried to budget out all the predictable expenses (tires every 6 years, house batteries every 5, oil changes, etc) and can still save up several hundred each month to build up an emergency fund. If I run into a major expense within the first year, I may have to charge it but I have enough credit to cover the 10-15k that people suggest I have cash for. It wouldn't be ideal to have to charge it given credit card interest rates, but it is at least a viable emergency plan. After a year or two I should have enough of an emergency fund to cover most major repairs without having to charge it.

Phred - If the engine or tranny were to go out and if I would have to pay 15k to rebuild then I would indeed be in a very bad position, so I would be very much hoping I could avoid that. As long as I could charge the repair which, BTW I do have enough available credit to do so, I would be able to repair it, but it would put me in a bad financial situation since credit card interest rates are so high. Given the care that Barry has put into everything, and the duty cycle these components are designed for, I think I would have to be extremely unlucky if something like that occured, though I am very aware that it is indeed possible and would have to accept that risk if I were to go ahead with this purchase.

Tom - Indeed his coach is priceless. Even just all the documentation he has done would be worth a ton. I am not questioning the value his coach has to the right people (me among them), I am just questioning how much it would be worth in the current market should I find I need to sell it. A certain Lincoln penny may be worth hundreds to thousands to the right people, but most people would actively refuse anyone trying to give them a penny, I mean how annoying are pennies now a days anyway! Even with the people that could appreciate that penny, not all would be in the market at the right time should one become available making it hard to sell for anything close to it's value. This is my concern...

Many people on this forum would appreciate his coach and feel it is of greater value than his asking price, however, when he has tried to sell it even through this forum, he wasn't able to do so. Like Bob & Sue and a few others that have contacted me, they would have loved to buy his coach but didn't for a variety of different reasons. I am just trying to understand why it hasn't sold and what a reasonable resale value would be to make sure I am making a well reasoned financial decision.

The value to me is more than worth his asking price and if I was certain I wouldn't need to sell it for a long time if ever, I wouldn't question the purchase. Unfortunately, I am not certain since this would be a major change in lifestyle and how can anyone that has not full-timed ever be certain they are making the right choice? ...especially since I haven't even owned a motorhome for recreational use before (though I have been on trips with others).

Wisdom would dictate that I take time to rent a motorhome for several long trips to get a better feel of the lifestyle and save up money to put myself in a better financial situation but circumstances do not allow for that at this time. To me, it still seems to be a better decision than signing another lease to rent here in los angeles where ALL of my money would be given away (though little or no risk for major financial burden). Moving out of los angeles is also not an option for several reasons. I may indeed do the wiser thing to wait, continue research and save if I don't purchase Barry's coach, but unfortunately I did meet Barry and see his coach first hand so the value is obvious to me but he is trying to sell it now. I don't think it is likely I will find another coach that is so well suited to my personality as a tinkerer and someone who, like Barry, insists on things being done the right way. The purchase may not happen, but in many ways I think it would be good for both Barry and I if we could make it happen.

Dan - I will be semi-full timing with a fair amount of travel. Semi-full timing because where I would be keeping the motorhome would be almost next door to family and would spend a fair amount of time in their sticks and bricks home. I am a college professor and have a fair amount of time off during summer, winter and spring breaks and plan to travel during those times with little getaways during the semester when possible. In other words, I will be giving it the exercise it needs to keep everything running well. I have a car that I would tow using a tow dolly and I am fine with that for now, but I would have the setup to tow 4 down should I decide to change cars since his rig includes a tow bar with a brake assist system.

I really appreciate all of the feedback and will continue to welcome more. This is a great community and is definitely one of the selling points should I decide to go forward with the purchase.

Adam

Five years ago I found a 'Cherry' '97 U320 with 116k miles for 40 K plus 5K for tires at MOT.  Over the years I have probably spent 3 to 4 K on upkeep and improvements.  I financed with USAA.  She is paid off.  I would suggest lowering you sights some; there are some good older Foretravel coaches out there, and MOT is the best place to find one.  It may not have all the bells and whistles that sounds good, but not necessarily needed. I would contact Mel and let him know what your financial parameters are, and go from there.  Get the coach inspected independently, and start dickering.
Mike

Adam, I think I know why Barry has had no luck selling it on the forum and it may be that all the feedback as seen in previous posts is not really about this coach but the personal opinions of a lot of people that they feel should they be in your position, and, that most people allways seem to have or know of a better way to buy.
Your problem is NOT Barry"s coach but your issue with financing and that is a normal one that most people are affected by.
You seem to be a responsibly minded person and understand all issues you face and the problem is with bankers short sightedness with certain  years etc, instead of taking each unit and assessing it so. Not a broad paintbrush as they are doing. My advice is go with your gut feeling and if it works, good and if not then you at least tried. I cannot tell you what you should do or not do, or what best way to start off as that is your business not ours. I bought our coach 10 yrs ago and it has cost almost nothing in repairs, but  a lot more in updates and improvements, and, if I wanted to sell it now it would return me more money than I paid, and pay back all my additions. Why, because it was in great shape and condition when bought. Our coach sat on the market for almost 2 yrs with only scam offers before I flew to San Diego area to see it and made an offer that was accepted next day. Yes, it was a heck of a lot less then asking but the seller needed out fast and I paid him out in days and 2 weeks before I got title and flew down to pick it up. Yes some trust involved but meeting the owners I knew they were good people just in a bad situation. We have stayed friends and he is pleased I bought it and doing the things we have to it.
Take care and keep trying.
JohnH

Hi all,

An update just in case you didn't read my other post:

Question about financing older coaches - Page 2 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=36892.msg352927#msg352927)

Barry has negotiated a good deal with MOT that I can not compete with so it is no longer something I will be considering. It would have been a great coach for me worth much more than his asking price if I could swing it but it wasn't in the cards. Maybe there will be another that is better suited for me given my particular situation.

I really appreciate everyone sharing their stories and their advice. Many of you have opened my eyes and now I will also be considering other older foretravels.

There has been quite a lively discussion and I appreciate everyone's input. I have given a much longer response in the post linked above.

I hope to be an owner soon. This forum is a great resource and I very much appreciate the active community.

Thanks,
Adam

Adam...I've been reading for awhile now on your post. Let me give you my story. Three years ago I was offered a 2001 U320 42' tag with two slides for 60,000 bucks. Coach had 31,000 miles on it and person had just dropped 33,000.00 in Oregon on a complete freshen on inside. New carpet and color changes..blah blah. New slide bladders...Always stored indoors. BEAUTIFUL coach with almost every option they could get..I could list them but why?? I had never heard of a Foretravel...but a quick internet search and I had figured out...THIS WAS a STEAL..These folks had LOTS of money...and they had it built to they're specs. I bought it on the spot. Sold my Airstream Cutter and DW and I were on easy street...except for Tires...4300.00 and batteries 3800.00...Still a good deal. But John Fitzgerald (board member here) and I have worked on this thing for many many hours..To get the coach where wife and I can use it. There is a Foretravel College somewhere and the learning curve on these it long and arduous. I so wish that I had been in the market that I would have had a Barry to shorten my College Degree...It is worth gold. I am indebted to several board member here that continually help me learn..by the way...most problems I have had have been owner ignorance. Nothing I have ever had drives like this machine either...

I flew to Laguna Niguel  CA to buy this simple 89 ORED coach, $15k all coach living systems worked when I picked it up. Dash air had to be disabled for the trip home so I ran the generator the whole way home. Climbed Cajon pass and drove across the Mojave and I-40 at 112 degrees on July 4th. A pair of noids kept insisting I walk around and check the coach every hour. Made it to Winslow AZ and parked in a truck stop. Drank some beers. Point being for the OP might be aiming too high for his coach now. The 89 is quite economical livable coach option , but a ? Equivialent quality travel trailer may well be cheaper? A macerator pump may solve his sewage delima with just a garden hose.  Water and power could also be issues.

There were a few fairly cheap older Grand Villas just a few post back.  If your finances are sound, have a good solid job, Maybe some one here would finance one of those. Much better value VS size and repair cost potential/financial exposure.

 I hope to look at  one next week for 12K .

 I would consider working with you along this path .  Sorry to say that if you went broke,  I would like the bus..

 FWIW  When I was looking to refi my commercial property, The bank just wanted big  solid numbers.  Stupid, as I was looking for 100K against a 300k Valued property. I told the guy that swapping places, I would sign the papers and hope that I went broke .

First off.. more expensive isnt always nicer or better... Older Foretravel hold their own... Worth a look...

Banks.. They dont lend to those in need.. they lend to those that have..

DaveS I told my bank the same thing last year when I refied.  40% loan to value.  20 year business. 20 year residence.  Spotless credit.  They still sniffed hard. 

Hey Adam..........jump on this!!

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