Foretravel Owners' Forum

Hi,

I am hoping to purchase Barry's 2003 U320 but haven't had much success finding lenders that are willing to finance older coaches over 100k. Can anybody share some good lenders that are willing to finance older coaches that would accept longer terms (10-15 years) for over 100k?

However, even if they finance over 100k, it seems most would only finance up to nada value which is 102k for his coach. I can't imagine there are any lenders that would finance over nada especially with a private seller, but if you know of any, please let me know.

The only option I have found so far is:
* USAA - will finance 100% of nada value up to 100k. 80% over 100k

Other options suggested elsewhere that would not work:
* Good sam - only finance 2008 and newer
* Lightstream - Will not finance older than 2008
* Southwest financial - Coaches up to 20 years old but need to be a Kroeger employee or family member
* SkyOne Federal Credit Union - Server only air industry or residents of hawthorne, CA
* Mountain America Credit Union - Must be in various utah communities

The problem with usaa is that I don't have much cash right now and given taxes in CA of over 10k, I would need to come up with 20-25k which I couldn't do at this time.

Any other suggestions?

Thank you!
Adam

Try Alliant: Alliant Credit Union | Nationwide Digital Banking, Credit Cards, Loans (https://www.alliantcreditunion.org/)

USAA if you are a member, or eligible to join either yourself, or through family is the best rates and loan criteria. As you noted you have to come with some cash.  When you calculated NADA did you add in every Air Con, awning, etc?

 However, USAA will 100% refuse to loan to full timers.  You must have a home base sticks and bricks, and must state you only intend part time RV use like vacation. I have used USAA for RV loans when I still had a house. They refused me as a full timer, and I went up the company chain to the number 2 guy.  So my last loan was with Alliant.

Adam

You might try a local credit union. That being said, being cash strapped and owning a 15+ year old luxury motorhome, no matter how well maintained (like Barry;'s) is not likely to bring happiness or peace of mind, unless you can maintain and repair it prety much 100% yourself.

Good luck and keep us informed

Credit Unions are the best bet.  Ours isn't open to the public so wouldn't help but it's 1.99 on any year last time I checked and that interest is usually deductible. 

X2 on what Tim said.

X3 what Tim said.

The standard advice around here for anyone contemplating a purchase, is to have at least $10K cash set back for "incidental" expenses.

In other words, best to be prepared for the unexpected.  You will sleep better at night.

It's time to face reality: You can't afford this coach. In fact, you can't afford any coach over about $50 k, because there will be more than one unexpected expense. Save some money and then buy realistically.

As posted above, unless you can do ALL the repairs yourself, you may find yourself behind the 8 ball and even then, RV ownership is not cheap. If you coach you purchase gets 8 mpg and you drive it in the west, figure $0.50 a mile and that's only for fuel. $600 to fill a 150 gallon tank.  Plus, without excellent DIY knowledge, you will have trouble discerning between good and problem coaches in your search. Best financial advise would be to rent an RV for a trip, otherwise, take commercial flights and rent a car at the
destination.

This is why the VW Vanagon camper so popular today.

Pierce

Adam, not trying to be harsh, but any motor home is an ongoing expense, luxury motor coach even more. That's under normal operation, their will be unplanned expense that comes up now and then. Barry's coach is as well taken care of as any you will find, but sooner or later all them will have an unexpected issues. Good luck.

Adam, USAA is your best choice and you might consider having the coach titled in South Dakota.  I would recommend Montana LLC, but you can't do that with USAA.  Ask me how I know!  So, I titled my purchase in SD at 4% sales tax. 

Get an older no slide for now,cheaper to maintain,will still enjoy it.

And then you find the really old coaches, like ours. Barry's is 10 years newer than ours, so if someone wanted to finance his, and can't, they would have an even harder time financing ours.

This topic comes up every so often, and the result is always the same: anything much over 10 years old is most likely going to be a cash sale.

That said, sometimes it helps to think outside of the box. If you still have an S&B, can you get a home equity loan to buy the coach before you sell the house? Assuming that you have a year or so before you hit the road, can you borrow what you need while you still own the S&B (thus satisfying the part-time use requirement), and then go full-time? Can you borrow from the cash value of a life insurance policy? Can you use cash advances from some credit cards? All of these, and more, have been used by people in the past. Some may fit you better than others, but start brain-storming.

The ideal situation would be to have the cash on hand to buy the coach you want and still have a substantial reserve to meet the unexpected expenses or just to update those things that you think need updating. Even then, I wouldn't get too excited about changing things that work just because there is something newer available. Live in the coach for a year or so, and then you will know what your real priorities ought to be.

Adam, X2 on Joe's title but remember to buy insurance in LLC name not your name ,  if it is wrecked that will give ins co. excuse not to pay if names don't match
Chris

We saved and paid cash for an older FT. We love the coach and the lifestyle it provides, and the Foretravelers
 that we've met. We sleep better at night knowing we can afford to maintain and enjoy the coach.

That was exactly our reasoning when we bought our U300. We carry hull on the coach here but only liability when we are in Mexico. It's paid for itself many times over and makes for worry free sleeping.

Pierce

We also paid cash. We knew what we could afford + $15 CBs just in case. That became our criteria for what we looked for.  ^.^d

Besides--Cash is King when making a deal!

Did not work for me: the PO knew what he had in the coach and the paperwork to prove it. I made him an offer and HE HUNG UP ON ME! Turned out, he was so fried by tire kickers that he thought I was just another one. I thought for a few minutes, called back and bought her, for asking! As it turned out, it was a heck of a deal for us; just what we wanted.  ^.^d

With luxury items like motorcoaches, boats, and airplanes, it's always better to pay cash and plan on spending 10% more over and above normal operating in the first year.  You will either spend it on unscheduled repairs or upgrades you decide to have.  I have seen people take out long term debt to be able to purchase these.  The problem becomes you are underwater the first year in that the unit becomes worth less than the debt and as it ages it never gets any better.

Thank you for all of your responses!

Dan - Thank you for the link to Alliant, unfortunately they will only finance a coach up to 15 years old. 1 Year too old! Doh!

Tim and the dittoers  ;) - Yes, I would plan on doing pretty much all the work myself. However, I am not exactly cash strapped as I could afford the payments and space rent and still have a bit of a buffer each month even with minor maintenance costs. Over time I could save up and have an emergency fund. In the meantime, I would have enough credit that I could charge any expensive repairs I could not handle myself, but of course that would be only as a last resort. The problem is that I just don't have cash right NOW. Ideally, I would save up cash and research the market and make a much more informed purchase and be in a better financial position, but for various reasons it is likely do it now or not at all for a very long time. It isn't a decision based purely on "hey wouldn't that be fun" or why many may buy an RV that may not be necessary for them, there are other practical reasons this makes sense for me personally. I may not be able to do it at this time, but it would be great if I could figure out a way that isn't risking a huge financial mistake, though I realize there will always be that risk.

Joe - I have considered such options, but I have also read that California has been cracking down on such practices. Considering all other risks, I would hate to also be risking serious legal complications in addition to losing the coach. Call me chicken if you like :)

kb0zke - I am keeping an open mind about other coaches and years, but I am I am having a hard time letting go of the quality of a foretravel and like you said, if I am having a hard time financing Barry's, it might be even harder to finance an older foretravel even if the final price point is significantly less. As far as the other funding sources, most don't apply to me unfortunately. I may be able to also get an unsecured loan to make up some of the difference which would be better than credit card cash advances, but still not ideal. I could afford the additional monthly payment but the shorter term lengths might eat a bit too much into that monthly buffer leaving me much more cash strapped than I would feel comfortable with, though I am exploring options.

Steve - It wouldn't exactly be a luxury item for me since it would be my primary residence for at least the immediate future. I have crunched numbers and unless I am extremely unlucky, it would actually make better sense financially than to pay the current rents in Los Angeles, which is where I still need to live for work. I would be losing money, but less than I would be paying with an equivalent rent.

Again, thank you all for your responses and input and I welcome more. I will keep you posted.

Adam

If one is careful it can be an excellent idea to start out underwater in something that can reasonably be expected to appreciate--such as real estate--but it's a horrible idea to start out underwater on a motorhome!

It all depends on the timing. I have purchased some vehicles for cash after negotiating a good deal, while I have purchased others for the asking price because it was already a reasonable deal on exactly what I wanted.

Adam, I would look for an older coach and pay cash (if you can) A decent no slide 1998 like ours will be 50% (or more) less than the buy in cost of that 2003.
In our case, We went from a tent to our 1998 U320. So for us it was like jumping into the Grand Canyon. It was scary as heck.
While we had cash to buy it and fix it. We were still shocked and very frustrated at how quickly things were adding up in the repair department.

There are a lot of folk here that are much smarter than I am and gobs more experienced with coaches. I would listen to them and take it to heart.

Even after all the expense & frustration. We still like our coach and consider it so much better than most other brands.

I am sure you realize that there is more to owning a motorhome than just the monthly P&I payment on your loan.

I assume you have located a safe, secure place to park the coach, hopefully with full hookups.  Unless you are very fortunate, you will need to pay someone to provide you a space  This rental will probably not be cheap in the LA area.

And then there is liability, collision & comprehensive insurance.  Even if you just carry the minimum required policy, I'm thinking it might be rather costly in Los Angeles, especially for a $100K, 42,000 lb., FBP (full body paint) coach.  If you leave the coach unattended all day while you are at work, you will also have to worry about theft and vandalism.

With these big diesel pushers it is advisable to carry roadside breakdown insurance to cover the tow costs if you get stuck on the shoulder. 

How about taxes?  Is there a personal property tax on RVs where you live?  In some states, this can be a heavy annual monetary burden.

You may have considered all these factors - if so, I apologize for questioning your planning prowness.

Some People do the math. And discover that a pay decrease is actually a wealth increase in some other City.

Your plan has merit but maybe with some modification.  It sounds like you've found a rv site, done the math, and living there would save you money...build some equity, over paying rent.  Good.  But a couple thorns are the cost of this coach, taxes, insurance.

My suggestion,  buy a fully depreciated used pull trailer, fifth wheel, whatever and have it moved onto your rental lot.  No need to buy a truck, plenty of folks who can reasonably move it when needed.  Save your money and when you're free to travel there'll be a Foretravel for you.  You'll probably find it very easy to sell anything reasonably priced and already sitting on a rental lot. 

Why not do  it with this coach?  One big reason....they don't like to sit.  The $5K worth of tires on it don't like to sit either, and  are steadily aging out while stationary.They need to be run frequently which given  your location in LA, and the fact that you're taking your house for a drive, quite a chore.  This is a great coach....but it's also a very complicated coach compared to a basic non slide non aquahot  non electronic engine Foretravel.  May want to consider that as well. 

I would not want the stress of buying something I could not afford, its a consumer mentality and to consume is to destroy! Not to be harsh, however, wisdom should prevail in contemplating an issue that is presenting roadblocks already. Life is making adjustments that make sense in my mind. People believe in many things, but there is a lie in every belief.

To complex of an issue for me to repeat some of what's already been said. I do see merit in buying something at some point. Acquiring something you really want and at the same time off setting the high LA rent. Not sure this is the time or a coach of this caliber is the way best for you at the time but know this Adam,There will Always be a coach that will be jaw dropping Gorgeous and well maintained available so don't rush the time and potentially spoil the experience for you.

These coaches were definitely "made to run"! Ours is exceptionally comfortable at 70 MPH. It may be my imagination but I can almost hear it begging me to take it out if it sits  for too long a period! Seriously, it's far better to try to wear it out than to let it just sit. If you want/need something just to live in then there are probably other far better choices.

I really appreciate all of your wonderful feedback!

DJ - I know it is a much better decision to invest in a sticks and bricks home and have indeed considered such an option. Unfortunately in los angeles, I would be stretched thin for a mortgage on a crappy house needing lots of repairs and in a questionable neighborhood. Moving away from los angeles is not an option for me at this time. So the decision is really should I give ALL of my money away to someone else in rent (i.e. no investment, but also no financial risk for unexpected expensive repairs) or put that same amount of money into an RV and associated costs but understanding I am exposed to much more risk. In the latter, I would still be throwing away money in initial sales tax (10k - ouch!), a depreciating asset, bank interest, space rent, and maintenance costs, but I would at least be gaining some amount of equity. Indeed it would be a financial loss no matter which way you slice it, but given the numbers I have crunched I would be throwing away less money overall than renting (as long as I do it for at least a year or so) and it would afford me flexibility in many other ways that I would appreciate. 

Bigdog - Indeed I am looking at older foretravel coaches as well as a few other makers known for good quality builds - even if not quite as good as foretravel - such as country coaches, newmars, monacos, etc.. Unfortunately there aren't many around that would be easy to see. It doesn't make sense for me to make a trip to texas, arizona, florida or oregon where there are more options unless I was likely going to purchase one and none of the available coaches I have seen yet have crossed that threshold. If I had more experience with any of these coaches it would be easier to cross that threshold without seeing it in person but at this point, I still need to kick the tires and preferably meet the owner before I would feel comfortable. If I don't pull the trigger on Barry's coach, I would expect that it might be a while before I found one I could see and feel comfortable with. I am okay with that and may end up doing that, but I am trying to see if it makes sense to purchase Barry's coach right now. 

Chuck & Jeannie - Yes I have been trying to consider all costs as realistically as possible. I am a numbers guy which is part of why I had the other post about the market value of Barry's coach. I have been crunching numbers to try to make as informed a decision as I can. I have budgeted out the space rent, insurance, travel costs, all the predictable expenses (tires every 6 years, house batteries every 5, oil changes, etc), etc and would still have a bit of a financial buffer to be able to put money away towards building an emergency fund and savings in general. If I were to run into a major expense within the first year, I may have to charge it but I have enough credit to cover the 10-15k that people suggest I have cash for. Not ideal given credit card interest rates, but at least viable in an emergency and until I build my emergency fund.

I will admit that I know my estimates could be wrong. Indeed, your post got me to rethink what actual insurance costs would be in los angeles. I had been using numbers that seemed pretty consistent across various blogs reporting typical full time expenses, so your comment got me to worry for a bit. Since then I have received several quotes and while there is a range (130-250) and it will require a fair bit of research to choose the appropriate coverage (including comprehensive), I have taken conservative estimates and included that in my number crunching. That being said, I absolutely expect I will be wrong about some of these estimates. I am just trying to minimize that as much as possible by being as informed as possible. If circumstances were different I would be waiting longer to do further research and saving more and in the end I may decide that it is better for me to wait anyway, but right now I am still seriously considering purchasing Barry's coach.

Phred - The math is rather simple and it would be obvious to most 5th graders: Living in Los Angeles is a terrible financial decision considering the alternatives. In fact many of my friends and family (all of which have made it beyond 5th grade ;)) have made the decision to leave LA for precisely those reasons. For me, however, unfortunately it isn't a realistic option for me to leave LA at this time.

Other Chuck (without Jeannie) ;) and Dub - I am keeping my mind open but I plan on being fairly mobile so a 5th wheel is less appealing. I am planning on partly living in the RV and partially with family that I would be very close to. I could live completely with family, but since I am no longer a child and have lived on my own for most of my life, I still need my own place and a way to retreat if needed so this seems to be a good option. Renting would put me farther from family and cost more. Being close to family given certain circumstances right now is important to me as long as I can figure out a way to do it reasonably. I am still considering just doing the more "normal" thing and renting a place that isn't too far, so this is just my way of considering a potentially unconventional but possibly viable option.

I recognize that I am this situation that is not ideal. I have seen a coach that is very appealing to me personally, yet it is one of the first I have seen and I haven't been looking that long so it is hard to fully appreciate how rare this opportunity is. I can see that it might not be as rare as I think it is right now and if I wait 6 months to a year I might find several others that would be as good of a deal or better in different ways, but this opportunity has presented itself now and I can't ask Barry to hold it for me for 6 months while I get a better feel for what is out there and how satisfied I might be with another coach.

Again, while I may still be leaning toward the purchase if I can swing it, there is still a lot for me to think about and research and even if I decide to buy it, it won't be without a lot more serious consideration of alternatives. I am still very much considering less expensive older and simpler coaches and may decide I just don't want to take the risk with Barry's more expensive coach, but I am still just trying to gather information to be as informed as possible.

cubesphere - many are giving similar advice. I am starting to think you guys just don't want me to be part of your community!!! I am just kidding of course. I really do appreciate all of the feedback and many of you have expressed your concern. I recognize it is out of good will trying to caution me against making a decision many might feel would be a mistake. I might end up agreeing that it is far too risky and wouldn't want to risk such a large mistake, but I am just trying to gather information at this point. The final decision will not be made lightly and given the abundance of caution being advised in this forum, I will be especially vigilant.

Again thank you all for your informative comments.

I am still hoping to hear more about possible lenders for older RVs. I have checked many different credit unions and banks and so far the only one that is possible is USAA up to 100k.

Adam

Indeed I hope to give it a fair amount of exercise. Even when I will be busy working and have to stay local, I plan to take it out for a short trip at least 1-2 times per month. Then when school is not in session during summer, winter and spring breaks I plan on travelling a fair bit more. I wouldn't want it to sit for too long either.

Adam

Adam in many ways you remind me of myself when I was young. People who had lots of experience would try and guide me in what to do. Everyone has given you sound advise about every facit of motor home ownership. Now we can't do much but wish you the best and good luck. Remember there are wonderful people on the forum to help along your Journey.

Lots of good advice above.  You can see where I shook out when I was buying.

Buy the best (newest) Foretravel you can afford.  I'm no Dave Ramsey, but it seems like you should look at something lower-priced.

It's no fun being a slave (or indentured servant) to your toys.  So I've heard.

Best of luck - now you have me wanting to buy Barry's coach!!  It's a bargain at that price.

Chris

Ill jump in and give a little here also... So many times we go through life wondering, thinking, hoping.... But we never DO.. If you have your heart set on this coach (it is a good one) then buy it at long as you feel comfortable with the maintenance and upkeep and you think you are able to cover any big surprises... Now I dont think you will have a problem with the Engine or Trans as Mine has 227k on it but its been maintained ... it will be the small stuff  if not taken care of that will eat you up in Money and time... MY general consensus would be to the group as to what they have worked on or replaced in the last 5 years.. Just to get an idea.. Like what has already been said I have more into modern changes than I do in upkeep.. Its a bug that once bitten is not easily satisfied...

If your heart is set and your comfortable? Get it and enjoy life.. its to short to stress over I shoulda coulda but I didnt... If your not sure.. Move on to the one you really like..

ITs the meaning in life..... We all understand how this coach was cared for... Buy it as I dont think you will be disappointed.

I realize I am going against current philosophy, but I am close to 77 now so I come from "the older generation" with different attitudes.
A friend once told me back around 1967 that if I had to make payments on my "toys" then I couldn't afford them.
Guess it stuck in my mind because I have tried to follow that advice ever since.
I kind of wonder whether these newer coaches with all the components that seem to be "timing out" after a few years and require thousands and thousands of dollars to bring back up to "spec" will be worth the expense of "upgrading" down the road. The complexity of these newer rigs requires expertise and tools that not everyone has or has access to.
I sure do love our simple, durable old 1989 coach that seems to go on forever without requiring complex major service or expensive replacement parts. If we sold ours today, all a new owner would have to do is replace the tires as they will time out next year. Oh, the fuel tank would be full!! Always is.
Old, Old adage (hell, I'm old too!!): "Simple is better!!"

 If you have lots of money and can eat the depreciation, buy it, love it .  It will drop in cash value as they all age .    You will also have a large financial exposure @ 100g. 
      In my case I cannot afford to walk away from  a 100G cash box on wheels.  I limit my financial exposure to what  I can stand to light on fire .
 I 've been big and I've been small . Small is better with less stress IMHO. 

Your a professor, take a financial professor to lunch and ask his opinion, beware he will probably want to throw a net over you and have you hospitalized for your intentions.
As an investment, which  it is, if you finance the amount and percentage your talking about, a RV is a huge no go!
Nothing drops faster in value, or market, than a RV or boat when the economy flattens out or recedes, or fuel prices rise.
Like stated earlier in another post, with a RV of this age and value if you can't watch it burn, you can't afford it.

Looks like the OP has his mind set.
------------------------------------------------------------

- Enjoy your FT and your coming adventures.  :D 

 - And - will be looking forward to hearing from you from time to time on the FoFum.    ;D

 

I have lived in so cal since 1951. 

I know of no place to park and live in a coach within 100 miles cheaply here.

Something I missed? 

I found some areas in San Diego and Los Angeles that had rows of Rv's parked with tents all over.. looked pretty Cheap to me..

Down town LA is free now, they past a law you can park any public place and not be harassed
Just sayin Bob

How do you dump and fill?  Run gen?

Wow.  We are camping on the streets....

The idea of purchasing a fancy rv to live on the public streets is a stretch for me.

Maybe for you but not Hundreds of others... If they dont have an Rv they use a tent or other means of shelter.. Maybe they dump in the streets.. Explains some of the smell maybe

I have driven through la many times recently.  Tents everywhere.  Blue tarps.  We cruise through the west coast regularly.

Doesn't mean I like it.  Depressing

My first thought is how much longer is this going to last. And why exactly would an entity want to do this,Is  CA rolling all of the dice hoping all of these people pay state and local taxes to keep them afloat?

Apparently he has a place to keep the coach which has nothing to do with financing so lets get back on track.

Mike

Phred, Maybe they financed their coaches also and maybe he could ask them... With that said Credit union is the best way but they want 80/20 equity you will need to put down the 20% typically to make them happy.. when doing nada add all the options to the vehicle to make the totals as high as possible with the type of Coach.. Its fudgeable a little as no inspection is typically needed and they will not know every detail in the coach if they did.. Bankers make a lot of the world go round. Make them happy and everyone beneath them is happy

From earlier posts he apparently could not do 80/20 or pay registration fees or taxes, so 110% loan or more, doesn't have money to travel to look at a different coach. Maybe he's looking for a sponser IDK

Just heard from Barry that coach is going to MOT.

Hi everyone,

Wow, I had no idea that I would receive so many responses when I first posted to this forum. I have been busy with work (grading sucks!) so it is hard to keep up with it all! I appreciate everyone taking the time to consider my posts and give their thoughts.

It turns out that Barry was able to negotiate a pretty good deal with MOT that I wouldn't have been able to compete with, so his coach is no longer on the table.

In many ways this is a relief because as I had mentioned it would be difficult to finance at his asking price, but I think I was getting close. I will now have much more time to do research and purchase something that wouldn't be as much of a stretch (to initially finance, not the monthly payments). That being said, I am pretty confident that I will probably not be able to find another coach that will have as much value to me personally for anywhere near what I could have purchased it from him at. So much of what Barry has done would be things I would have wanted to do and he has spent years doing them. Since I am not retired, it would take me much longer to do the same things. His documentation and spare parts alone is something that is tremendously valuable.

However, even though I recognized how much value I would be getting, I was still nervous because it is a big financial decision and would be a major lifestyle change as well. Part of my nervousness came from the fact that the value of the coach would not be represented not only in the financing but also in the insurance. If something happened the coach and it was totalled or stolen, then insurance would only pay back up to NADA value leaving me without a home and having to continue to make payments making it harder to get an new home. There are other risks such as having to perform an unexpected major repair but given the history of the coach, Barry's upkeep and records, I felt it was a reasonable risk to take. 

I was also nervous since the coach wasn't selling and while I honestly had no doubt that the right buyer would come along eventually and that they would even be willing to pay Barry's original asking price of 125k or higher, I just wasn't sure how long that would take given the available pool of buyers in the current market. So if in a year from now I decided full-timing wasn't right for me, I wouldn't want to be stuck with the decisions to wait 6 months to a year to find the right buyer or be forced to sell it for significantly less than it's depreciated value and still have to pay off the difference. I had calculated a reasonable depreciation of about 10% and figured that into my budget, but if I lost 15-20% or more that would be hard to absorb. So in two different scenarios, I would be left having to make payments without a home making it harder to have a home, in the latter case of having to resell it much lower than the true depreciated value or having it stolen or totalled and insurance only covering NADA value.

BTW Phred, I could indeed pay the registration and taxes of around 10k but that would eat up all my cash so I wouldn't have much left to pay toward a downpayment on the coach and why I was asking about different lenders. I have the money and would be willing to travel to purchase a motorhome if I had confidence I was likely to purchase one if I did make the trip. However, at this point I still would need to see the motorhome and talk to the owner (preferably in person) before I would ever have that confidence. With time and after seeing more motorhomes, I imagine I would have more confidence about how likely I would be to buy without needing to see the motorhome in person before making a trip to see it. I know there is always a risk to take a trip and not make a purchase, but it doesn't make sense to make a trip to just window shop, at least not right now.

To all of those concerned, no I was not planning on staying on public streets. I have a place where I can park it in a backyard cheaply and would often take it out on weekends to nearby RV parks that I could afford through membership programs (E.g. Passport america, thousand trails, etc.). At the current location, I would have to put in a sewer hookup and that might not be cheap but still could save me a fair amount of money in the long run. In the meantime, I would have to go to a dump station once or twice a week but I could manage. I would extend the time between dumps by taking showers and other water intensive tasks at a family member's home that would be practically next door.

Many have advised me about how terrible of an idea financing a motorhome is. I do agree but feel it is worse to rent in LA which is likely what I would do if I don't find a suitable motorhome. There are much better ways to invest including the obvious one of not investing in a depreciating asset such as an RV. However, many of you seem to be making certain assumptions and maybe do not fully appreciate my particular circumstances. As I currently see things, my options are:

1) Continue to throw 100% of my money away in high rents in Los Angeles
2) Get stretched thin to pay a mortgage on a crappy home in a questionable neighborhood in LA
3) Leave los angeles as many of my friends and family have done
4) Finance an RV that will lose value, throw money away on bank interest, space rent (though I have a cheap place to keep it), insurance, maintenance costs, etc. but still gain some amount of equity and have money left over to save.

As I currently see things, 1 (renting) is much worse than 4 (buying an RV) since all my money is thrown away, but of course doesn't have the same financial risks (part of why I was trying to gather information, to fully understand those risks). Also the overall costs, including budgeting for predictable costs (tires, batteries, etc) and related monthly RV expenses would still allow me to save up for unexpected costs and building up my savings in general. 2 (buying a crappy home in LA) is the best financial decision of the listed options as long as repairs don't bankrupt me, but the quality of life would be far far worse. I would be stuck in one place for years, and I would not have much of a financial buffer. 3 (leaving LA) is just not an option right now for many personal reasons. Many of you may be in different places physically and metaphorically in your life that make it hard to understand why I am considering such a bad financial decision, but for better or worse, I am not as scared of debt as many of you are. Although I fully understand the consequences and risks of being in debt. I am in a growth phase of my life where my earnings potential is only going up and if things work out well, I might be able to pay it off in 5 years or less. Trying to be as informed as possible and crunching a lot of numbers, it still seems like a better financial decision than just renting, just with significantly more risk.

In the end though, there is more to life than just calculating finances. This forum and the RV industry would not exist if it were. Everybody that has purchased an RV, or even a car for that matter, has made a bad financial decision. Some feel that going into debt to make a bad financial decision is worse than just paying cash to do so and in many ways I agree, but I still feel like it is a better option than renting especially since I can comfortably afford the payments. People often don't seem quite as insistent about not financing an automobile because they feel it is necessary.

For many of you, an RV is not necessary and is purely a luxury item that increases your quality of life, so you feel one should only pay for luxury items one can afford. I agree. Again, this would be serving as a home, not just a luxury item, so I feel it is more akin to going into debt for an automobile than taking a trip to vegas and putting everything on a credit card. Again, I am fully aware that I would be throwing my money away but I feel I would be throwing less of it away. Given the other options, I am willing and can afford to throw money away given the flexibility and quality of life it can provide.

I hope it hasn't seemed like I am being defensive as I am just trying to give a little more context on my particular situation. I have and will continue to keep an open mind and I truly appreciate everyone taking the time to read these posts and give their opinions. This has been a lively discussion and I appreciate everyone that contributed to it.

Now that I will have more time to do research and look at other motorhomes, I am not sure how active I will be on this forum since I won't be trying to make such an important decision in a limited amount of time and there aren't as many foretravels out there to consider. I will still be looking at foretravels and still hope that I can find a way to get one that is well suited for me. One of the perks of buying a foretravel will indeed be this forum. I really appreciate this forum and I would be looking forward to being a more permanent member of this community as an owner.

Again, I thank you all very much!!!

Adam

There are plenty of nice older coaches.. The non slide options are roomy also.. .. Interiors on the older ones are nice and they are reasonably priced for frugal buyers.. Some good deals out their.. ^.^d

Yes his was a a great deal but  no go none the less.. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. If I told you what I paid for mine it would blow your mind but I have put several thousand into it..Its my baby.. I call her the Mistress.. She puts the UP in my Giddy!!

Slides are pointless, especially for one that is boondocking or living in tight quarters. More maintenance too.

A 2000 or older Foretravel without slides can be had for 40-50k +/-, maybe less.

I prefer having the oldest and least flashy looking RV when I am parking in cities.

And I hope you don't think we were being obstructive...

I read all the comments and suggestions made to you in this thread.  I thought they were a fairly reasonable response to your "proposed" deal.  But this is from the viewpoint of a old man who has made a lot of financial mistakes in his life.

Personally, I think your basic plan sounds fine, but it certainly doesn't require the purchase of a $100k coach.  You could spend half that amount and still buy a very nice preowned Foretravel.  It could be just as nice inside and out, and just as comfortable to live in.  Some of the members of this Forum have started out with older, less expensive models.  After they gain valuable experience and a better understanding of what they want and what they need (which are two very different things), some have decided to move up to a newer, fancier coach.  In some cases, they lost very little money when they traded up.

Anyway, we wish you luck in your search, and stand ready to answer any questions that may arise as you check out other prospects.

This is a great point. Why spend 100k or more when 30-50 will get the same thing?  The interiors will be nearly identical.  From the inside out, few would know the difference. When approaching a significant life change that has many what-ifs, it's best to risk the least amount of $$$$ in case one must bail.

Most everyone likes what they have, including ourselves.

For us and from or experience, agreeing what Krush said about all being similar in many ways, our sweet spot is 1997 through 2000 U270 36'.

Simplicity is our goal with longer length & more features adding unnecessary complexities for us.

We all have a 'sweet spot'. When I first started looking for a FT, I narrowed it down to a 36' GV U-240 '93/'94/'95. Took me a year of searching, but I found her!

Slide no slide , I like them all and may have one of each by years end.. who knows, just having a good bus and having it on a long stretch of good highway is a beautiful thang.

My offer still stands to finance an older coach.  5K down. 

For California residents (& maybe other states, too ??)  we heard that if a vehicle is delivered out of state (Nevada ?) and kept out for a period of time (6-months ?) when it comes back into California, legally there is no sales tax owed upon first registration.

Out of state documentation would be very important.

We have also heard that some may occasionally temporarily bring the vehicle back into state without declaring the entry.

We are not CA residents so we have no first hand knowledge.

One year.  Used to be 90 days.  Did a lot of out of states back when

Even at 1-year, it still has value for almost/full timers & others.  Gives one an incentive to get their dream going, with a full year of traveling with their new coach. Or if buying while still working, store it in Nevada for a year.

Do other states have something similar on their books?

Owned a new coach for 10 years with four slides sold it in 2014 for 1/3 of what I paid for it. Deliberately bought a 1995 U320 FT well maintained with no slides. Love it built right when new!

If you pay cash for a Foretravel that is depreciated out you will come out ahead given interest rates on savings, in lieu of newer rv depreciation and loan interest cost!

If you are a California resident, how are you going to get "one full year of traveling" in the new coach unless you register it?  You have to have tags on it from some state.  I guess you could store it in a barn for a year, but who wants to do that with a brand new coach?

AFAIK, In Texas, when you register a coach for the first time in your name, you pay the tax.  Doesn't matter how long you have owned it, or where it came from, or where it has been stored.  Tax is a percentage of either the purchase price, or the "presumed value".  See link below.  On a 25 year old or older coach, tax is based solely on purchase price.  If you do a cash deal with the seller, they only have your word for what you paid...

TxDMV.GOV - Standard Presumptive Calculator (https://www.txdmv.gov/spv-calculator)

Each state has a "trip permit"  that allows either a one way or round trip use of that states highways for a set fee.

Versus new coaches sales taxes the use of the permits for the then 90 day period is entirely legal.

I had the state of California Dept of motor vehicles and the state of California franchise tax board in my office 30 years ago and they asked me what I was advising customers to do.

I repeated word for word exactly what I had been telling my customers what they needed to do to legally avoid paying sales tax.

The two gentlemen shook my hand and stated I was entirely correct and that I had found a legal loophole in their systems and they were not going to change their system for a small number of motor homes.

At $10 for a trip permit it was cheaper to use a permit on a daily basis to drive a $4k plate fee otherwise coach.

Had a few rebels actually do exactly that. 

I delivered the coach across a state line.  Notarized delivery receipt.  Trip permits from every state the customer intended to travel through.

larceny  made deals, great fun.

Personally made many dozens of out of state deliveries to ehrenberg az or Vegas.

Or took coach at NAC and kept a log book and receipts of use out of state on trip permits.

Then pay plate fees when back in Ca.

Never rely 100% on what others tell you, that includes me.

Be responsible for your own research thru the governing body (In the case of CA that would be the CA Franchise Tax Board.)  The reason, ultimately  you are responsible for the tax, penalties, and fees.  Some states have 100% penalties for sales tax, use tax, and fees.

Laws change, ie., I've seen CA go from 90 days to 6 month to 1 year, and back and forth.  Often states do not count rv days in storage, therefore not being used.  Laws have changed regarding reentry to the state during that term whether you could or could not.

I've worked in CA, OR, and AZ selling rvs for almost 50 years.  In that period I was at different times a licensed dealer or salesperson.  I've always, in the case of CA, referred buyers to the CA Franchise Tax Board for their information.  When I worked in CA they had a law on the books that if you were soly trying to avoid sales or use tax doing something, you were violating that law and subject to the sales or use tax.  So often I would have CA judges, and CA highway patrol officers state, "I am not doing this to avoid the sales or use tax,  I will be using the rv out of state for xx number of days.  I also saw CA go back and forth on whether during that time you could enter CA with the rv.

Remember, you are the one ultimately responsible for taxes, fees, penalties,  etc., do your research. 

I've attached a CA Tax Buyers Guide, a download from the Ca Board of Equalization site today, that also lists their phone number at the end.

Do You Owe Use Tax? | California Franchise Tax Board (https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/use-tax.shtml)

Only answering the original question about financing a older coach. Not only no, but HELL NO. Don't even think about it. Don't do it.
If you can't afford to pay cash in some way, or take a loan from a IRA, or borrow from a rich uncle, or sell something you own to get the cash, then its a bad idea. As others have said, buy a smaller older one. Pay cash. The cost of ownership is high, no reason to make it higher with more taxes, more interest, and more depreciation. I believe, the minute you do something like that, you will regret it.
Lots of older coaches come for sale on these forums all the time. Some good, some maybe not as good. Take your time look around, you will find what you are looking for, and if not, then maybe your not meant to at this point in your life. And there are a lot of RV's out there, not foretravels for a lot less. If cost is the issue.
Good luck with your choice.
Bob

Feel the same about a sticks and bricks?

No David of course not.  Mostly, and historically, a sticks and bricks house, better known as real estate appreciates. Over time it is worth more money than you paid for it, although when you factor in the cost of ownership, taxes, insurance, maintenance, and the like it gets a little muddled. But a RV, car, bus, boat etc usually only depreciates.  Also a mortgage is usually the largest investment a family will acquire, which is why the banks allow a 30 year mortgage. It's gotten out of hand though. And almost brought the whole house of cards down. But then I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.
But paying over time, with interest on a depreciating asset is never a good idea financially speaking.  But then we all don't always make the right choices on what is the best for us financially. Sometimes we go with our gut feeling, what we want now, our dreams or desires. Sometimes it works, sometimes.. not to well.  But he asked, and that was my take on it.

Jacks comment about use versus storage may be important depending on your states laws as he posted.

I used to kid the ca customers when it was 90 days to touch the door handle while it was parked.  Storage is a relative term. 

I had my customers who came back into ca for service during the 90 day period use trip permits for the use of the highway system for that limited time. I seem to remember service was allowed during the 90 day period

And keep a log book and some receipts. 

I'm past 70 and live a pretty good life.  I've always been self employed and I've worked a little harder when I was under the gun somewhat.  Making memories has always been more important to us than having money in the bank. 

I'd never advise someone to go in too deep for something as frivolous as a coach but we've spent somewhere in six figures over the years on coach expense and wouldn't take what we've spent for the memories. 

Every situation is different.  Just be careful and don't get into a situation you can't afford to buy yourself out of if the bottom falls out.

Some need depreciation.. Motorhome is a write off in my state.. I use it..  If he has no other property he might need the write off also if its permissible? I think its all relevant .. I am sure you use the write off on your house as best you can squeeze and if not that would be financially irresponsible one would think. So their is a close correlation to the 2 in some conditions? No?

I bet you would be hard pressed to find properties that appreciated during the real estate crash.. Some took 7-10 years to recoup some might not have without upkeep and so on.  Smart? Buying in a bubble? Time will tell but probably not. Seen people upside down 200k on their houses ..

SOmetimes .. some people just dont care and have made it and it works.. Not sure on the OP but I have seen it..