I've just blown the seal in the steering box, can it be driven without power steering? Parked in an unauthorized parking lot. Any advice appreciated.
Thanks
I've thankfully not had the experience, but found a thread that says driving without power assist is possible.
Exploding steering box mess and limp home (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=29219)
I assume your coach is like ours, with two separate hydraulic systems - one for the power steering and one for the cooling fans.
If so, at least you will still have engine cooling if you do decide to try to drive it.
Thanks for the link Chuck, I may have to bypass the Shepard box, it's a fast leak. Dang the luck
Yes
I believe the cooling Hyd is separate.
Found another thread that has some less optimistic opinions. Might depend on how strong the poster was...or how scared!
Leaking Steering Box - 1998 U295 (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=24171)
When you have time, let us know where you are located. Some other member might be nearby, or know a good repair shop close by, etc.
Thanks Chick, I just filled the reservoir and drove down the road 5 miles to a restaurant parking lot. We are in Tillamook OR. According to Brett's link the best rebuilder is Redhead in Seattle WA. I guess I'll have to find a shop in the area that can handle the work.
You are about 200 miles from Seattle by road. I think Tim just posted the other day that Redhead now has some rebuilt steering boxes on the shelf ready to go, so the turn around time to get a rebuilt box might not be too bad. Just need to find a shop willing to do the R&R.
Not sure if the box Tim talks about is the same one that is used in the U280.
Edit: After some more reading, I think the U280 does use the Shepard M100 PDP1 steering box.
Shepard M100 PDP1 rebuilds now available from Redhead for EXCHANGE! (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=37122)
Possible repair shop candidate:
Tillamook Diesel Repair, 405 Main Ave, Tillamook, OR 97141
Tillamook Diesel Repair - RV Repair - 405 Main Ave N, Tillamook, OR - Phone... (https://www.yelp.com/biz/tillamook-diesel-repair-tillamook)
Sent PM's with info on box, and other suggestions
If youd have waited a couple weeks Id have gladly given you a hand. Im pretty familiar with the area. Burdens towing has a big shop there. He might be able to give you a hand.
Update:
Well thanks to chuck, Tim and all who replied, I contacted Dan Foster at Redhead in Auburn Wa. and he had a M100 core partially rebuilt on the bench. He agreed to finish the rebuild and get it shipped out to Tillamook last night. Waiting on delivery this morning to Tillamook Diesel Repair. If they can get it installed today then we should be back on the road by tonight. Keeping fingers crossed that all goes as planned. Special thanks to Tim Fiedler for sending a couple of core Shepard M100 boxes to Redhead or this would have cost us much more downtime. 👍
I'll update our progress later today.
Please update us on the "performance" of your new ( Red Head ) steering box. After driving from the east coast with the original box and driving back with the new one, you should see a difference ??? Or maybe not. At any rate, safe travels to you and your family. Enjoy the PNW at the best time of year to be hear IMHO.
OH, and beautiful coach. ( I might be biased) 🙂
Bob,
I'll let you know if I notice any improvement in steering but it drove so well before I doubt there will be much noticeable difference. I checked for leaks from end to end on the coach before I left on this trip and didn't see anything "abnormal" ...... no drips anywhere.
My regret is not taking the advice of some on this forum and replace the steering box because of age, but I didn't want to "fix it" if it "ain't broke".
🙄
With a little luck we should be on the road by tonight. 👍
Be sure to check CUT ANGLES after installing the new box.
Yes on "cut angles" !!!!!!!
Lots of info here on web by using search Do not assume shop is familiar with the procedure on M100
how does one prudently decide what part is going to fail and when, some history here on weak parts like the Shepard gearbox and the Allison 6 speed. I like the heads up from experienced members.
I have found if you talk a part UP ... it will break.. so we don't talk about any parts.. kinda like fight club!!
I change parts that are important and will hopefully keep me from being stranded
3208 Cat. Replace at first opportunity. :D :D
Why replace the 3208 cat? Engine was very reliable in use. I do not remember ever hearing of anyone who had to rebuild one. 1100 series's was different.
3208T CAT. engine is great and you can find people all over the country that can work on them for you. Have a great day ---- Fritz
The truckers gave the 3208 a bad rap by calling them throwaway engines. I have one in one of my cranes that was rebuilt at 250,000 because of blowby, but it was rode hard and put away wet by the PO not me.
I have very poor cell signal here at South Beach State Park in Newport Or.
Good news is we got back on the road late yesterday afternoon and with a Redhead Steering box and adjusted pistons. All is good and I will update this later with all the details when we get to where we have good signal.
👍😁😊
We have landed in Newport at the Marina RV park. Here are a few details of our exciting weekend.
After almost every stop, I do a walk around and check tires and for leaks under the coach. Sunday morning we rode the Oregon Coast Scenic Railroad from Garibaldi to Rockaway Beach and when we returned to the parking lot at noon all was good. We left Garibaldi and drove to Bay City to ride the "Bay City Rail Riders" pedal cars to Tillamook. It was a 12 mile round trip and good exercise for us all. (Lots of seat time coming to the PNW from Florida) all was great until I returned to the coach to find a oil spot under the left front. It was a uh-oh moment. Obviously from the Shepard box but not leaking at the moment. With the engine running it was a very fast drip to a small steady stream. I checked the reservoir and had only lost about a quart. What to do?
First I went to the forum...... as always... for suggestions. After reading some post of others and their suggestions I decided to fill the reservoir and head to the RV park where we had reservations. ( about 10 miles). We only lost about another quart by the time we parked.
Monday morning I called Redhead Steering and spoke with Dan Foster, he had a partially rebuilt Shepard M100 that he could get completed, tested and sent out for Delivery in Tillamook on Tuesday morning. Things were looking up!
Tillamook Diesel Repair agreed to do the swap on Tuesday morning. The box arrived at 10:30 am and as expected the shop was busy by then. At 1:00 pm just after their lunch break I pulled up to the door and a coupe techs got started. After a little difficulty pulling the pitman arm off they had the new Redhead installed in an hour. I spent another 1/2 hour working the steering back and forth for Joe the technician to properly set the stop pistons. He seemed to know what was needed so I followed his instruction. Total time
spent working on the coach was only 1-1/2 hr. Paid the bill and backed out of the shop.
And here is the rest of the story.......
The front end dropped to the stops instead of going to "travel height". I could manually raise it or auto level it but when I released the brakes and put her in drive she leaked down. No travel light. Now what?? 😩
Thinking they had messed something up doing the swap, I crawled under the coach to see what the heck it could be. After tracing out a few air lines and finding nothing, I noticed something looked odd about the ride height valve.
The control rod on the valve was vertical and the rod attached to the frame was horizontal. ??? Should be the other way around. 🤔
I had my son raise the coach all the way up in the front. With the coach fully raised I was able to push the connecting point of the two rods past their center point and invert the position of the rods. After lowering the coach the rod connected to the valve was now horizontal and the rod connected to the frame was vertical as it should be. Now it stayed at ride height. Dang!! Had me worried. I guess while we had the coach raised full up the techs may have unintentionally bumped, pushed or knocked the control arms out of position.
So point of this story is:
it is possible ( at least on our coach ) to get these to rods out of proper position while in the full raised position.
Thanks to the forum and especially Chuck and Tim for their help. If not for Tim Fiedler for supplying Redhead steering with a couple of core M100's we would still be waiting on repairs. 👌👍
Great job trouble shooting the ride height problem! That TinkerToy linkage has caused many a member some perplexing situations. :headwall:
It seems that the ride-height linkage for the front is no where near the Shepard box,, so what was a tech doing in that area. Just sayin....
Do some steering gears have automatic stops in place of manual set stops?
Are the steering gears interchangeable so we can remove a manual adjustment model for an automatic?
My box IS leaking.
I have no idea Bob, but they were beating and framming and pushing and pulling. Plus a few choice words. The pitman arm was hard to get pulled from the splined hub. They used a proper puller and impact wrench and a dead blow hammer tho'. I just know it happened while at the shop cause it was all the way down and bags were soft.
I checked ride height after I flipped the rods and all was good front and back.
Apparently so, I heard them discussing the fact that ours was manual and not automatic. Joe used a small flat blade screwdriver to make the adjustments.
Ok Bob.....
might consider a Redhead rebuild before your next long trip. 😎
Thanks. Talked to straightline engineerings here in so cal. Talked to the guy who would do the rebuild.. 4 hour turnaround with notice. $525 plus tax. I have a super duty 4x4 to transport the box.
Arranged the shop to do the work. Trying to find the compact Pittman arm puller mentioned here a while ago.
This is before I knew it had a leak.
Also have a new geared starter to put on.
Fixed my audit system. Found an electrical fault. Love the chase.
Added a BMS and a me arc panel
Never done.
BUT the drive down the road makes it worth it.
My comment to both owners and prospective owners as a Foretravel manager:
"You pay for every one of your pleasures."
Barry, I believe FOT started using the auto adjust boxes in 2003. Heard they were interchangeable with the manual adjusting ones.
I believe both cores I returned to Redhead had manual cut angle adjustments, not automatic.
I replaced my steering box proactively so as to do it as efficiently as possible. "On the journey" repairs are inconvenient, spoil the trip, waste time and can jack up the repair cost.
If you have a 1995-2003 coach, at a minimum consider having a M100 seal kit on board.
Or schedule a replacement on your time schedule at a shop of your choosing.
I just drove 2,300 miles in last 5 days with my recently (MOT) rebuilt steering. So relaxing with everything right and minimal "dead spot" in the steering.
Use straight line, weller or Redhead, whoever makes sense to you. I have driven a coach with a fresh weller and my coach with Redhead. Redhead is definitely "crisper" to my feel. Straight line may be every bit as good or better than RedHead, but without a core program their convenience factor may be lower than getting a Redhead pre-positioned for a in and out same day service event.
If you can pick up and drop off your steering box whatever vender you choose, you will pay sales tax but save some on the shipping.
For Redhead, call Dan for an actual quote, but figure $495 for the rebuild and $100 each way for freight, give or take depending on how far it is being shipped.
Everybody with these era coaches that have not swapped out the steer boxes should be figuring out when and where to get it done before too long or at least carry critical spare seals.
I don't have any compensation from Redhead, nor do I care if you use straight line, Redhead, or Waller. I only did the core thing because I was frustrated that chasing the core was troublesome for the members and Redhead was near my Gig Harbor house.
Do what makes you happy, but a little advance planning and preventative maintenance could save $$$$ and aggravation.
Question,if I'm understanding correctly,even if you send your core in to Redhead and they rebuild yours you will still have to adjust
the stopping points?
YES.
And about 1 out of 5 coaches I inspect need to have the cut angle adjusted as well. Too much cut angle and the steering knuckle contacts the mechanical/hard stop, PSI goes way up and seals are easily blown. Too little cut angle (too much gap between full cut angle and mechanical stop and your turning radius is artificially high.
Only tools needed to adjust are a small standard screwdriver and perhaps a crescent wrench-- the wrench only if the mechanical stops are not set correctly. The mechanical stops are there to prevent the tires from contacting body or suspension parts. Then a small gap between mechanical stops and max cut angle determined by the Sheppard M100 box (the small external adjustment screws.
Thanks for the post Tim and for going out of your way to get Redhead those cores. Sure helped us out. Wish I had taken this advice and replaced mine before this 8000 mile trip. 🙄
Tell me again about the seal only replacement?
How hard is it for a shop or person to do?
Mine steers perfectly just starting to leak.
No drips on ground but based on everyone's else's stories here my day is coming.
.
Bob,
There was a recent thread of a member who replaced a seal himself while at a remote camp site while on his way to relocate in Alaska. His plan was to get there via this band aid and then do swap.
With your proximity to a rebuild shop, and the relative low cost to swap, why not put in a rebuild? The seal the member replaced did not require the box to be removed, but there are multiple seals in the box, not all of which might be so accessible.
For my $$$, doing this at your convenience and swapping for a rebuild can keep the cost and aggravation level to a minimum.
As always, do what makes you happy.
Tim Fiedler
Gen-Pro.biz
630 240-9139
Bob
Thought I had read somewhere on here that the "seal only" option depended on where the leak was. ( input shaft of the steering column or out put shat of the pitman arm or the back side shaft seal) the shop I was at never mention this as an option though.
Mine was leaking (badly) from the back side seal of the output shaft.
Had not sourced the location of any of the leaks. My buddy said it was on top.
Straightline says all the seals crumble. Like cookies he said.
No I do intend to fix this correctly.
No band aid.
Anyone have a lead on the mentioned in another thread here Pittman arm puller for tight locations needed to take the arm off next to the gen box?
Big difference in labor from my local shop if they can remove the Pittman arm easier.