If you know of anyone who has had to have their ISX engine repaired due to the pistons going down need to report it to class action.org and NTSHA. This doesn't need to be only Foretravels, it can be any other RV with ISX engine problems. Thanks.
Keeping the RPMs up on grades keeps the EGTs down. Fast idle for at least 5 minutes to avoid heat sink in the turbo keeps the turbo seals in good shape. How do the two go together? High EGTs go quickly out of sight with a bad turbo seal and can burn a hole in pistons in a hurry. The first piston go sends little pieces to it's next door brother also finishing that piston and perhaps the head too.
Increasing the HP always means higher temperature because of more fuel injected. This raises the EGTs. Keeping the exhaust valves set to their proper clearance means they have time to sit on their seats and transfer heat to the head. If they can't, they run hot. If they run hot, they can fail and there goes $30K in engine damage.
Quite a few ISX problems on other forums. In my opinion, it's lack of operator training in most cases. Too many drive big diesels like their car.
Pierce
I've had 4 isx engines with a million miles put on each pulling 80k lbs. That doesn't help the people that have issues. The reason I will buy no more is the cost of parts to rebuild and other parts outside of engine such as 3500.00 turbo. 2009 is the newest I have and these are probably newer ones giving trouble for the bus people. I just hope these last 100,000 more miles before Inframe then they will be traded for Detroit's. The are a very expensive engine to work on and I have been very lucky with them. I have bought 1 head and 1 turbo so far. With the miles I mentioned you may ask why kicking them.ive been lucky and don't typically rely on luck.
It appears to hit the 500& 600 series, which I think were manufactured around 2010 onward.Yes, they are expensive repairs, $ 30,000 & up. I have an acquaintance that has had his engine go down twice. Lot of money to cummins or who does the work. That is why the request.
Hopefully owners can get some recovery.. It will likely take a class action you mentioned. Odds are the failed engines had very low miles which makes it sting worse.
EGR?
The egr system appears to be connected to the engine failures. Back pressures from clogged particulate filter, one fellow said it starts with the #6 cylinder and works it's way down to the #1. That is what happened with our engine. I know that two sensors were replaced in spring of 2017 by Cummins and when the engine yellow light came on in Sept, Cummins in OKC said that was one of 5 possible problems, but to keep heading home as long as the light stayed yellow. We were able to limp it into Nac, since our front was missing the Gen cover and we needed alot of front end work from the deer smack. I saw the destruction of the Piston valves and cylinder sleeves . Neither my husband or I drive the rig like a car. Folks I have communicated with have had low miles with the engine starting to go down about the 25-30 thousand .
If you run into someone who mentions this problem, be kind enough to let them know to contact the class action.org . If enough people report, then we stand a chance .
Are you still coach-less? Hoping you are back on the road....
I have the ISX-650 , and so far no issues . I run that thing like I am trying to get there on time .On interstates I run the speed limit and usually 5 or so over but not over 75 MPH . And that is because that is what the tires allow and be safe . On hills or in the mountains on a climb , I maintain the temperature not to go over 212 degrees , but make it work . On the 2006 Phenix I had , came with a M-11 , 500 HP . It had EGR failure at 35,000 miles , $1,400.00 . Always felt that was not enough engine for the weight of that coach . The 650 moves this much heavier coach better . Hope luck does not enter into to equation , but so far --ok and pleased . The Cummins Atlantic service manager in 2011 told me to not slow idle or sight see slowly around town . He stated with a cold start up , when air and oil pressure is up to drive off at moderate speed till temperature is up to normal operating range , but said do not idle a cold engine . I have seven diesels and do this with all except the two gen sets that run by computer . Kind of amazes me at how tuff diesels engines really are . ??? Brad Metzger
As I posted a while back, a cousin of the shop owner was visiting from Albuquerque for a few days. He was a diesel mechanic in a big shop. He stated that with Cummins, it's usually #6 that fails. Another forum member that I met in Q back in '14 said his also lost #6 and he installed an exchange engine. I almost purchased a medium sized flat bed truck with a Cummins. It lost a turbo seal and quickly burned a hole in #6 with damage to #5. The head was off but it looked to me that the head only had a few marks on it and with a set of pistons, it could be back on the road. In-frame kits are pretty inexpensive compared to shop work.
The only thing I can think of that would make #6 a favorite for failures is less than adequate coolant circulation in the head or block. Perhaps not a problem until the EGRs are high for an extended period and only in certain engines.
A couple of sites with engine failures: 2 blown Cummins 450 ISX motors in 2 weeks... [Archive] - Competition... (http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-163822.html)
Probably a good place to make contacts in action against Cummins: Cummins ISX 650 - iRV2 Forums (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/cummins-isx-650-a-268361.html)
ISX valve failures - Engines - FMCA RV Forums – A Community of RVers (https://community.fmca.com/topic/13262-isx-valve-failures/)
Bet this does not happen to the Cummins N-14 engines.
Watch video below but fast forward through all the commercials.
Pierce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CtAOigx_s4
I was at cummins when a FT came in for generator work. He lost his engine on the motorcade to Nova Scotia and had to be towed breaking his generator. They had to replace his engine. I don't remember the year but it was about 5 years ago now.
I think brads driving is why he has had no issues with his 650.
Almost invariably luxury vehicle products are babied.
Bought a ten year old 50k Miles Lexus ls460 and it surged while accelerating.
Service records showed injectors cleaning done recently.
Aha
Service manager at dealer said they get lots of this.
Cleaner then have the tech road test it and blast it hard.
Switched to top tier gas and changed plugs and drive it aggressively.
Idles smooth as silk.
Our m11 lacked power. Various reasons..
Drove it hard like a manual trans intercity truck for 15k miles.
Noticeable improvement.
Then went through the tune and other mods.
Every used motorhome I have ever driven was not run hard enough to break it in.
No problem for me.,..
Think the bottom line here is it's not Pugmonm's fault that they did or did not drive the coach the "optimum" way,you would think
the newer ones would have less problems then the old ones.
There are a number of RV folks with ISX issues out there, not just single cam but also dual cam.
http://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/TB040318-2.pdf
Cummins ISX broken valve in #6 - iRV2 Forums (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/cummins-isx-broken-valve-in-6-a-401436.html)
We won't touch a coach with an ISX.
98548 miles on my ISX 600 and rolling fine. It is a 2006 engine though. Not sure lumping "all" ISX engines as being bad is correct. Diesel engines in RVs seem to be more problematic, just reading this forum is evidence of that. These heavy duty engines are built to run not sit for months. An ISX in an RV is light duty service. Mine went over Monarch Pass with ease and usually is only 30% loaded on most highways. Moves my 46K lbs along nicely and can stay with the cars accelerating through on ramps. Run em'!!
Has some reliability been compromised for power? Huh this isn't news to most even with $$$-$$,$$$$3 technology. Nothing is free, question is do you spend $$$$ to fix a $$ issue and throw into the dumpster. No political parties named.
I think that what was a simple call to have those individuals who have had trouble with their ISX engines has degraded onto a free for all on who is or isn't correctly driving their rigs. That was not the intention of the original post. It was simply asking all of you to do one simple thing. That was to pass on to RV folks that they can contact CLASS ACTION. Org, if they had trouble. Is that to much to ask?
Pug mom just because your request prompted a conversation doesn't mean your intent wasn't met. If anything your cause got more exposure. I can't see where any harm was done. I think we all wish fellow FT owners the best, the same as other coach brands.
I have to apologize for veering off topic when it was really meant to address to ISX failures and the support that Cummins did or didn't give. Please either start a new topic or let us know exactly what went wrong, when it happened and others with the same experience. I've read some of the information on other forums but I think members would like to brought up to date what happened and what to expect from Cummins.
Again, apologies for taking the topic away from the original intent.
Pierce
If you search on Pugmom's posts, the saga started almost 2 years ago
Update on progress of our deer smack from late Sept (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=33393.msg307059#msg307059)
Got to clarify my last post -- the subject of the advice I got while at Cummins Atlantic was aimed at my ISX -650 . Some of what he told me was aimed at the particulate filter on the exhaust side . I don't like the back pressure restrictive flow caused by it , but %$#$% ---have to live with it . Didn't mean that what I posted was for all Cummins engines . ??? Brad Metzger PS-Now have 113,603.6 + miles on it
Folks, I will bring you up to speed as much as I can. As Michelle noted, this is going on 19 months and We are hoping that the end of the tunnel is almost here. I know that there are some who are not impressed by Bernd, but he has worked his way through each problem that has surfaced . Believe me, it has been a domino effect. We had to replace all 6 cylinders and cylinders sleeves along with having the head gasket re-milled. The erg sensors which had just been replaced by Cummins in spring of 17 were found to have been improperly replaced. But according to Cummins, they could not honor any warranty as the date of placement had passed, which is their right. The particulate filter was found to be totally clogged. It was cleaned and the engine re-clogged it within 2 hours during a road test around Nac. Bernd brought in a Cummins rep who said to replace the filter with the same kind, but there was no guarantee that it would work for any length of time . Bernd's tenaciousness in researching aftermarket filters has lead to one that performs correctly versus the one recommended by Cummins. The fan that traveled to England and back also had to be re-fitted due to new modifications performed in England. Just when it appeared that we were going to hit the end of this nightmare, an $90.00 fuel pump malfunctioned and had to be replaced. During one of the wonderful rain storms we have experienced this spring and the fact that the engine was being tested once more, it was discovered that the air intake for the air filter would suck in rain. No that may not be a Cummins problem.
ISX engines that I know of from discussion on other forums had the following in common.
1. All started to malfunction somewhere between 25k&35k miles.
2. Always in the #6 working down to the #1
3. The erg system appears to be the culprit and some folks went with repair that could lead to fines if caught
4 . One gentleman has had his , ISX go down 3 time, once just prior to his purchase, once about a year or so after purchase and he just had work done again.
If I knew what I know now, we would not have bought this coach. But at the time, there wasn't as much to find out there on the net.
Brad may have lucked out with his engine, as it appears that the ones having trouble were made late 2010 & post 2010.
Thanks for bring us all up to speed. I'm sure disappointing is the understatement of the year. I've heard about the Cummins intake valve supplier supplying poor quality valves. Seems #6 is the first to fail but unless you do your own work, the shop is going to charge a fortune. What is the warrantee period on these engines?
Link to the the ISX intake valve problem, PDF: http://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/TB040318-2.pdf
Hope you're back on the road soon and get satisfaction from Cummins!
Pierce
Sounds good on paper,so tell us why are they not fixing the ones that fail at this 25k to 35k miles,sounds like they just give you the
same crappy parts that fail and hope for the best.Apparently they have many ways to slide out of a warrenty claim,hence the class action law suit.It's just me but if I had one that has not failed yet first thing I would do is put in some good synthetic oil and an
extra bypass filter,every little bit helps.
I came across this article a little while ago concerning the ISX maintenance problems. The truck owner has quite a lot of experience and has some excellent tips for keeping your ISX running smoothly and at the least out of pocket expense but it will require you do some of the simple work. Not saying this is going to cure a bad batch of intake valves but worth a read. Pretty detailed but he summarizes at the end.
The ISX model featured here may not be the one you have but I'm sure there are a lot of items that are the same.
Cummins ISX CM871 Technical discussion | TruckersReport.com Trucking Forum |... (https://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/threads/cummins-isx-cm871-technical-discussion.222173/)
Pierce
Talk about a load of good information -----Thank you for posting this . Brad Metzger
Good info! Hope it helps others, bit late for me. But will keep it for future use.
My ISX-650 was manufactured in 2008 . Done some reading and sorting thru the pile of stuff that comes with a new coach . Now I am perplexed about this engine. Is it going to blow apart on my way to the dunes or on the way home ??? Maybe I am going to run out of luck . Didn't give it much thought before all this came up . but-, you never know ---Brad Metzger
Brad, our engine was manufactured in 2010. You may have gotten one of the good ones. It seems like those that have gone down were manufactured that time and later. But there are no guarantees.
I think that Brad works his engine harder. Like it was in a truck.
Based on 35 years of driving used rv's I have rarely found one that was not babied
The engine was designed for 80k weight and stick shift and hard use?
Was looking at an 08 Country Coach with the ISX 650. So did a lot of internet research on the #6 valve problems. No way to validate it, but appears lightly loaded engines were more prone to damages that the ones loaded up. Appears that about 5% had problems. Thinking that you towing your big truck with the big toy on it, would put you in the loaded class. I would just keep the skinny pedal down and do a oil analysis every year and not worry too much.
Any chance the non-ISX discussion could be taken to another topic out of respect for Pugmom, the OP?
Out of respect for the OP the side discussion has been split out of this topic.