Using the search feature and searching for a post on resonators I find where the aero 5050xl was a popular choice by many a few years back. Is everyone that installed it still happy with this resonator, are there any new forerunners out there. My old muffler has got holes in it and it's time to replace it so now I'm doing research for myself on the best replacement and cheapest price for it...
Thanks
Keith
Like our 5050xl. Has a low growl revving out but not too bad. Definite low rpm torque increase. Plus more hp. Stock was really restrictive. The bedroom maybe cools a little quicker without the hot muffler under it.
But the m11 and trans weigh 3,000? pounds
Used the Aero and this one, both pretty close in sound and quality, 0nly difference is in price.
Jones Stainless Turbine JT5050 Exhaust Muffler | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jones-Stainless-Turbine-JT5050-Exhaust-Muffler/153090776522?hash=item23a4ebddca:g:frAAAOSwKMNb1bpt)
Either aero 5050 (little shorter, bit fatter) or 5050xl. Holding up just fine after many years. Would use it again. Sounds fine and felt a bit more power after removing big rusty old oem muffler. Go For It...
I will say we started with the Aero 5050XL but swapped it for a Magnaflow unit which was a bit more "civilized" in tone. Dan W. has that coach now.
Right, the5050xl sounds pretty quiet from the driver's seat. Behind it is another story though, it's loud. I keep this in mind when in civilized areas, easy on the throttle.
Chuck if I had to redo our 5050xl resonator install I might install 2 of the same units.
Sure works well.
X2. I used the MagnaFlow 12771. I can't say it is better or worse (sound-wise) than the Aero 5050XL, cuz I've never heard the 5050XL on a 8.3 Cummins. Might sound entirely different on a big block anyway. Ours has been in place for going on 4 years - no sign of rust or deterioration - still sounds exactly the same as when I installed it. I have been happy with it.
Keith, I used the Jones JT5050XL It looks like a Aero knock-off to me all measurements are almost identical but at a little over half the price. I also wrapped with the fiberglass wrap and sprayed silicone all over the wrap. Since that was done I have added a turbo boot (cover) also made of fiberglass and I think it has charcoal inside it, but I haven't taken a trip since adding the boot.
Like the sound of resonator but as posted above it can get loud if you have your foot in it.
Chris
PS whether you get Aero or Jones get the XL model it is longer and will be a little quieter --Supposedly!
Why not just a straight pipe? Any one ever tried it? As I remember the turbo charged 1693TA Cats and 855 Cummins where not that obnoxious with straight pipes. Or maybe I was just deaf from the 12v71's.
Don't know about coaches but on tractors I can definitely tell the difference without muffler
I have never heard a coach without resonator or muffler
Chris
I know with a jake brake things can be noisy.
"Straight" pipe on our Detroit V8
Noise level tolerable up front.
Response level--quicker--noticeable.
RPM limit somewhat gone and now able to run at 60+MPH.
Runs a mite cooler.
MPG went up 1 MPG if I stay off the pedal. Now 8.5 -9.5 pulling our 2006 Saturn Vue.
I did the same on my cat 3208T . The turbo really muffles most of the sound on lower rpm.
Basically it sounds like my old boat...... lol
We have the 5050. Love the sound from up front, so much so that sometimes I've driven with the window open just to hear it. Ditto for the responsiveness, more pep and 1 mph better mileage.
However, the old lady directly across the street goes apoplectic when we start up. She is in an older frame house with jalousie windows. Apparently the acoustics are such that she gets vibrations. I try to minimize my running time at home, even to the point of letting it cool down after a trip further down the street.
I have a 1996 U320 and did replace the OEM muffler with a Magnaflow (30 inches long) because Brett Wolf indicated that the Magnaflow is quieter then the 5050XL. I did not want it to be louder than stock, and my observations have confirmed that it has a deeper tone but is not louder than the OEM muffler. I read a blog on IRV2 about someone who replaced the stock muffler on a SOB with a 5050XL and after a year of listening to the annoying drone, he replace the 5050XL with a Magnaflow.
The 5050XL (30 inch long resonator/muffler) is longer and quieter than the 5050 (20 inch long resonator) which in turn is quieter than a straight pipe.
The Magnaflow has a 4 inch straight opening with perferations. The 5050XL has two halfs, the first half is like the Magnaflow while the second half splits the exhaust flow and causes half of the exhaust flow to swirl and recombine with the straight through exhaust, which Aero claims reduces the back pressure. Unfortunately, it appears that this swirling also increased the noise.
Another Foretravel owner from BC who I camp with during summer months, replaced the muffler on his U295 (Cummins 8.3) with a straight pipe, but a few weeks later replaced the straight pipe with the Aero 5050 because the straight pipe was too loud. His exhaust is still louder than mine (not sure that the M11 is louder than the 8.3).
I also have available a list of several other mufflers which others have used and FTE sells a "Hushpower" which they claim is quieter than the Magnaflow.
We yanked the OE muffler and went straight pipe ( for now anyway ) for the raw hp increase??
Can't say for sure about the hp increase but I believe the turbo spools up quicker or so it seems. I can say that I no longer see the Allison shifting down on the rolling hills in Texas or I-5 northbound to Seattle. Before the change it would shift to 5th on the long pulls to Seattle. Drove it several times before switch.
Now with the Jeep in tow the 8.3 is inclined to shift on some of the hills to Seattle BUT , I think I figured out the mode switch so it's back 6th all the way up.
Noise wise the same on the highway unless your going uphill through a tunnel or hitting it from a stop sign,, that's a different story. Still quieter than a Harley.
In the late 90's when California Hwy Patrol tried to get any motor home over 40 feet off the hwy we had inventory that was 4-5 inches over the 40 ft limit. Fleetwood tried to shorten the exhaust by those inches and was stopped by the engine mfg saying they needed that precise length. They said it needed a precise amount of back pressure from this length according to the eng mfg to run properly. I never knew if this was true or not. They said the mfg would not honor the long engine warranty if they modified the length. My rv has the replaced resonator and have wondered if this makes the engine run hotter or different from it's original design.
Were these gas engines with special exhaust? That would make sense. Our muffler cans from the factory would pretty much eliminate that issue. The diesel truck drivers put on straight pipes and were legal but sure are a problem with a Jacobs brake
Yes, a worry with the Jake. It's pretty good now but sure don't want to sound like a truck. Lots of room underneath and without the stock muffler, you could make an extra compartment back there. I've been looking at a lot of mufflers and would like to have a stainless model rather than aluminized tin. I found a 5 inch in and out in 409 stainless for $70 delivered and thought I might try it. It has stainless screen inside too. For those wondering, the 2-cycles use at least twice as much air so come with 5 inches stock. Here is the muffler: Amazon.com: 409 Stainless Steel Performance Diesel Muffler 5" inlet/outlet... (https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Performance-Diesel-Muffler-outlet/dp/B076TQQFGQ/ref=pd_rhf_se_s_cr_simh_0_2/141-7276081-3845239?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B076TQQFGQ&pd_rd_r=0f0a9e2c-5e41-4185-a0c6-e011234d4dcd&pd_rd_w=oeWbl&pd_rd_wg=4zJuV&pf_rd_p=31caee8f-ce20-49ad-9f29-d71df297ad52&pf_rd_r=XPJV67XYJDC2AYRDHD25&psc=1&refRID=XPJV67XYJDC2AYRDHD25)
30 inches is not that long so I could add a shorter one past that. Smaller intake/exhaust models are even less.
Pierce
The 40s were all diesels, American Eagles, Dreams, and Traditions.
I wondered about that backpressure thing. Maybe it's time to add that resonator. But then there is the log truck example so ?????
It might make a difference if it's a full mechanical engine. Just like going full airflow on a carbureted petrol engine and not increasing the fuel flow. It can lead to a too lean condition. Electronic injection however will compensate.
Manufacturers are odd ducks though. Just look at the flat towing situations where there was a 180 change on OK for towing to no towing with no mechanical change.
The turbo creates all the back pressure you need with straight pipes.
Let me get this right, pressurizing the intake creates exhaust back pressure ??
Naturally. You are compressing the air and feeding it to the intake so the exhaust has to spin the hot side of the turbo and it can't do that for free. Has to be a little back pressure created but it cuts a lot of the noise compared to a straight pipe.
Pierce
Perhaps look at it a slightly different way.
The turbo wheel in the EXHAUST has restriction for the exhaust-- certainly more than if it weren't there.
To clarify a little more,the turbo has 2 wheels,an intake and a exhaust.
Seems like a free flowing exhaust will create a larger exhaust pressure differential before and after the turbo, thus increasing turbo efficiency, right? Always heard less back pressure on diesel the better at least on older diesels.
The same for gas engines. The purpose of headers was to create a venturi effect with the primaries to scavenge the exhaust.
With the exception being two stroke bikes and the large expansion chamber required. Guess it's from the lack of valves and exhaust cycle....
The less restricted any hot high speed gas flow is before and after the turbo. The more of it's energy can be transferred to spinning the turbo.
My (now gone) 2014 Mercedes 4 cylinder 2 liter Diesel had two small turbos to help with Turbo lag. That little 2 liter Diesel diesel had 208HP @ 369 Lb/Ft. and returned over 40 MPG. It had a max output of 104HP/184Lb/Ft per liter to our M11's 40HP/131Lb/Ft per liter. Pretty impressive little diesel that Mercedes had. That's like our M11 having 1144HP@ 2024Lb/Ft torque. It would be death to the Allison transmission.
I just put the Jones big one on...problem is I did two things at once...I discovered the Economy mode on the trans..so I do the exhaust and love the sound..yeah it's beefy..but it is nice...now this is my performance gains I think I feel...I now drive in E mode..and this last 300 mile round trip..I set cruise at 65 and it held it's speed uphill better...now I'm confused...was it E mode or exhaust upgrade. It might be both..it just seems to pull better. It seems that before it would fall quickly to 60 then 55..but now 65 all the way up...
Mike, Just put it back in the performance mode and use the ole butt dyno to compare with the old muffler. Post up some videos with sound.
And for those about to change. Perhaps some before/after videos. You tube has proven useless for comparisons.
Slash cut exhaust tip will reduce velocity pressure losses also due to exit area sqaure inches that's why the big rigs have a slash tip or slashed elbow. If you look at your exhaust cfm flow on the Donaldson site engine charts. At full load hp you may have a 300 mph leaf blower eating up 3+ hp based on velocity pressure alone, let alone the lousy fitting coefficient of a straight abrupt exit.
I just found the Ft. Knox of muffler information with cut aways, dozens of photos, etc. Everyone owns me a beer for this one and no cheap stuff.
Techtips - Exhaust Systems: Mufflers and Catalytic Converter Guide (https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/exhaust-systems-mufflers-and-catalytic-converter-guide/)
Pierce
Thanks, Pierce. Nice primer on muffler types. ^.^d Brings back good memories of playing around with various mufflers on old cars.
I had a 1969 Camaro Z28 that was ordered from the factory with dual chambered exhaust pipes. No mufflers - just straight through dimpled pipes - and it was street legal. Produced a beautiful sound from the little 302 cu in engine. Was considered by many to be one of the best sounding factory exhaust systems of the day.
One thing to watch for when selecting resonators for your coach: check the I.D. of the inside tube. In some cases, the inside pipe is smaller than the connection stubs on the ends. If you are paying for a 5" in & out resonator, be sure it is 5" all the way through.
TANSTAAFL, or for you non Heinlein readers, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. But there is thermodynamics. Turbo chargers recover energy from the waste heat. Here's a picture showing the temperature difference between exhaust in and exhaust out of a turbosupercharger.
That's also why you install the EGT probe a maximum of 6 inches from an exhaust port. Otherwise, the reading will have to be corrected or it will give a false sense of security.
My 2-cycle articles have made me a stranger in a strange land so not that illustrated. :))
P
I'm glad I didn't know about Foretravel using the Detroit 2-strokes. I might have stretched the budget into purchasing something I can't afford, just so that I could live with one of those engines. I like the idea of a uniflow engine, not to mention recovering some of the waste energy with a turbo charger. And the sound! On the long road to the SIATA Spring, we passed on a V-12 Jaguar, once again because of the sound. We used to own a 1964 MK X, an all original car that I rebuilt the engine on after I finished the XK-120 for a friend. Beer is a gateway drug. "Art, you like projects. How would you like to put my XK-120 back together again?" "Oh, yeah, did I tell you I took it apart 12 years ago?" said Don Jesseman.
Don Jesseman playing the great room at Councilor Burton's home.
Don Jesseman on the Piano - YouTube (https://youtu.be/y-gy03USSNU)
Excellent info in this thread ^.^d I'll add: Anything that creates a higher pressure differential across the turbine will improve performance. A less restrictive conduit after the turbine should improve performance since the pressure differential "seen" by the turbine will be greater; less work put into scavenging = more work available to spin the turbine. Improved power (within thermal/mechanical limitations), and BSF. This same principle can be applied anywhere from the point of air intake to exhaust exit. Hope I never have to do a valve job on our ISM but if I ever do, it's going on my flow bench for some tweaks. ;D
Greg
I hope you have sturdy bench if that ever comes to pass.
Like the ideas stated. I lessened intake restriction via a blue tech air filter, , adjusted valves, upgraded air pressure, reolaced bad cam postion replaced fuel lines, replaced Winn fuel filter, replaced alternator, added solar to kick off alternator loads, , changed cooling systems fan controller, added low friction tires, replaced suspension grease seals, synthetic oil in hubs. Aero 5050xl resonator beautifully installed with welded connections.
Now the increased upstream air flow can help the lesser back pressure spin up the turbine wheels.
Remove loads, increase air in. Let the air out better.
Nice ride now. Now finish electric issues, now finish steering box. Fixing that proactively. Leaks. Fix before failure
I ordered the Jones JT5050XL.... Now to decide If I want to try the install or find someone to do it... Thanks for all the input...
Keith
Great! Do not forget to update us on your thoughts of how it performs once you get it installed!
LOL... would have to build a big bore adapter and outrigger support to do it. Nothing fancy like the Lucite commercial jobs; no reason to see inside for dry flow. Particle board with foam seals gets the job done well. The bench itself, a home-brew copy of a Superflow 300, will handle the weight, I think ::)
+1 on the let us know how it performs. I may be doing this too. ...though I hate to pull the original muff...looks like it could easily go another 20 years.
Keith, I found the SS elbows on Ebay and bought the flex at a local autocrats store . Flex isn't stainless but I figured the original lasted 20 years the new piece would outlast me!
Chris
Boosted engines respond poorly to the time of porting . If you have any sharp edges, clean them up, but the pressure gets the air inside well and the injection makes sure that all are fed the same .
If you want to go crazy, we have a flow bench , that I rent per hr.
Hey, Mike, assuming your response was directed at me, (flow bench) I agree that port improvements on a forced induction engine have lesser results, vs a naturally aspirated mill, and has to be done conservatively. My main goal would be to improve efficiency. ...smallish, quiet ports. No matter, it's unlikely I'll ever have a big six head on my bench, unless it was off the block for some other reason.