Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: pibutler on July 02, 2019, 11:37:00 pm
Title: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: pibutler on July 02, 2019, 11:37:00 pm
I was driving my coach today and after I parked it at my storage facility I noticed an 18" crack in my windshield - it is in the very top center portion of the windshield. It does not appear that it was caused by impact or a rock. I did pull in and out of a gas station and a couple of driveways. Could this have been a stress crack from frame torsion?
Interested to hear some thoughts and if it is stress - how to avoid this type of damage.
Thanks Pat
BTW - My insurance will cover the replacement - not cheap either.
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: bigdog on July 03, 2019, 12:17:50 am
Has the windshield ever been replaced? A lot of installers glue the window into the rubber gasket. Foretravels have a floating windshield so any flex will just have the window move within the gasket. So they should not be totally glued. Of course a severe enough twisting can use up the play and stress the glass.
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: pibutler on July 03, 2019, 12:36:43 am
Thanks for the info, it was replaced a few years ago as per the service records in the file. I bought it from original owner. Perhaps it was improperly installed from the aftermarket installer.
I'm getting a quote from Coach Glass, I'll find out if they understand the install procedures for FT. I'm thinking I should reach out to FT Tech for advice as well.
This is great info, thanks again.
Pat
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: bigdog on July 03, 2019, 01:02:58 am
I had both sides on my U320 replaced this winter in Arizona by RV superglass of Tucson. He was recommended and he was not happy that my glass was glued. It's a heck of a mess that takes time and a lot of elbow grease to remove. A lot of installers will glue the top edge as this will allow movement but seal against water intrusion.
I'm sure that in the morning a lot of the way more knowledgeable folks than me will chime in as well. As I don't know the Nimbus
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on July 03, 2019, 10:50:29 am
When I was importing cars from Germany, one of the many DOT requirements (FMVSS 205) was gluing the windshield in place with approved urethane adhesive. You don't want to get it on you as it's really difficult to get off.
Today, windshields are considered part of the vehicles structure and supply strength in case of an accident, especially a rollover accident. The older glues could take 24 hours to set but now, they are formulated to set in one hour. A glass shop didn't wait and released the car to a customer was successfully sued by the family of a girl killed right after picking up the car. This story was told to me by the Reliable Auto Glass shop owner when we had a windshield replaced.
Tidbits: German cars have no tint bar on cars made for domestic use. Tint bars are OK in the rest of Europe. It's a visibility issue for the unlimited Autobahn speeds (unless posted otherwise). Europe used to install tempered glass windshields rather than laminated safety glass. As late as the 1980's, they didn't glue windshields in. All windshields now have to have "AS-1" as part of the information at the corner of the windshield.
Pierce
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on July 03, 2019, 01:35:54 pm
With my 1996 U320, a leak caused the passenger front corner to drop which cracked the lower corner on the passenger side about 4 inches from the corner.
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: bigdog on July 03, 2019, 02:18:36 pm
When I was importing cars from Germany, one of the many DOT requirements (FMVSS 205) was gluing the windshield in place with approved urethane adhesive. You don't want to get it on you as it's really difficult to get off.
Today, windshields are considered part of the vehicles structure and supply strength in case of an accident, especially a rollover accident. The older glues could take 24 hours to set but now, they are formulated to set in one hour. A glass shop didn't wait and released the car to a customer was successfully sued by the family of a girl killed right after picking up the car. This story was told to me by the Reliable Auto Glass shop owner when we had a windshield replaced.
Tidbits: German cars have no tint bar on cars made for domestic use. Tint bars are OK in the rest of Europe. It's a visibility issue for the unlimited Autobahn speeds (unless posted otherwise). Europe used to install tempered glass windshields rather than laminated safety glass. As late as the 1980's, they didn't glue windshields in. All windshields now have to have "AS-1" as part of the information at the corner of the windshield.
Pierce
But I think our coaches aren't part of that "have to be glued" regulation. They are also largely exempt from the crash standards as well. Such as side intrusion, 5MPH bumpers and such.
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on July 03, 2019, 03:53:49 pm
No, quite right about FMVSS not applying to motorhomes. Most glass shops still want to glue them in but not required. My other stuff is just some tidbits about glass in general.
Pierce
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: pibutler on July 03, 2019, 04:54:52 pm
Thanks for the great info. I spoke to Foretravel and they are going to order the factory windshield and have it shipped to the local installer. Perhaps I had a chip that spread like wildfire down the center of my windshield. Thanks again and Happy 4th of July!
Pat
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on July 03, 2019, 05:13:18 pm
Should have said that the FMVSS for AS-1 windshields apples to all vehicles.
P
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: gracerace on July 03, 2019, 08:12:35 pm
But I think our coaches aren't part of that "have to be glued" regulation. They are also largely exempt from the crash standards as well. Such as side intrusion, 5MPH bumpers and such.
I replaced probably 50+ FT windshields. Both for customers, and under warranty by Foretravel. Curved, and flat both. Per Foretravel spec's. They were all glued in with black urethane, all the way around. Customers were required to stay overnight. This was from 1995 till FT closed the liberty lake store. Was still gluing them in all the way around. I would talk to FT which way is proper. Our 97 still has the original windshields, they are glued in all the way around Chris
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: Mr B3 on July 04, 2019, 10:57:10 pm
I replaced probably 50+ FT windshields. Both for customers, and under warranty by Foretravel. Curved, and flat both. Per Foretravel spec's. They were all glued in with black urethane, all the way around. Customers were required to stay overnight. This was from 1995 till FT closed the liberty lake store. Was still gluing them in all the way around. I would talk to FT which way is proper. Our 97 still has the original windshields, they are glued in all the way around Chris
Hi Chris, Do you know if there is a video available of putting the windshields into a Grand Villa coach any where on line that I can see, Is it better to slide the window in from the side or place the top in first, I am about to do my own, both sides, Any help would be much appreciated, Do's and Dont's Do I glue the windows in or not, Do I glue the new rubbers in or not,
Thank you, Brian,
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on July 05, 2019, 12:19:26 am
Quite a few regular videos on YouTube for windshield installation. I imported a 1970 MBZ diesel with a tempered windshield. I bought a used AS-1 and installed it myself. I got a big crack in it when it was almost done and had to buy another. Got this one in after a bit of sweating. Then I bought a big windshield for my Buffalo Bus. I sweated this one for a couple of hours and finally got it in. After that I would give a glass guy a call, he would show up and ten minutes later, the glass was in and no black glue to try and get off everything.
Glass work is an art and if you are starting out, you're not an artist. It always annoyed me how good and how fast they are but it's a good way to spend $100 or so and know it's going to be done right especially if a replacement is a couple thousand miles away.
Pierce
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: Mr B3 on July 05, 2019, 12:30:39 am
Quite a few regular videos on YouTube for windshield installation. I imported a 1970 MBZ diesel with a tempered windshield. I bought a used AS-1 and installed it myself. I got a big crack in it when it was almost done and had to buy another. Got this one in after a bit of sweating. Then I bought a big windshield for my Buffalo Bus. I sweated this one for a couple of hours and finally got it in. After that I would give a glass guy a call, he would show up and ten minutes later, the glass was in and no black glue to try and get off everything.
Glass work is an art and if you are starting out, you're not an artist. It always annoyed me how good and how fast they are but it's a good way to spend $100 or so and know it's going to be done right especially if a replacement is a couple thousand miles away.
Pierce
I got my last one almost in, But I didnt have any suckers at the time, so couldnt get it the last inch or so, The glass installer i got cut a 1/4 inch of the top of it to make it fit, Hence the start of my windscreen problems, It floated all over the place after that mistake, I just didnt know and thought he knew better, I cant find any video's on the grand villa with the curved windows, Plenty of big full screens, Single straight screens, But none with our screens,
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on July 05, 2019, 10:37:01 am
Brian,
Sounds like he was a failed artist. I've never heard of cutting the gasket to get it to fit. Perhaps Chris can give you some tips. The last guy to come to the house had a long articulated arm on his PU with big suction cups and a cordless remote control. It positioned the glass and it was a cakewalk after that.
Pierce
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: craneman on July 05, 2019, 12:48:29 pm
Quite a few regular videos on YouTube for windshield installation. I imported a 1970 MBZ diesel with a tempered windshield. I bought a used AS-1 and installed it myself. I got a big crack in it when it was almost done and had to buy another. Got this one in after a bit of sweating. Then I bought a big windshield for my Buffalo Bus. I sweated this one for a couple of hours and finally got it in. After that I would give a glass guy a call, he would show up and ten minutes later, the glass was in and no black glue to try and get off everything.
Glass work is an art and if you are starting out, you're not an artist. It always annoyed me how good and how fast they are but it's a good way to spend $100 or so and know it's going to be done right especially if a replacement is a couple thousand miles away.
Pierce
I got my last one almost in, But I didnt have any suckers at the time, so couldnt get it the last inch or so, The glass installer i got cut a 1/4 inch of the top of it to make it fit, Hence the start of my windscreen problems, It floated all over the place after that mistake, I just didnt know and thought he knew better, I cant find any video's on the grand villa with the curved windows, Plenty of big full screens, Single straight screens, But none with our screens,
did he cut the glass or the rubber?
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: gracerace on July 06, 2019, 12:17:43 am
I had a scaffold setup to do them, so I could walk back and forth.
Make sure coach is on level ground and level.
Gaskets were glued in after the glass was installed.Before the zipper was installed.
Big thing is make sure there are no thick or irregular spots in the coach fiberglass. This can cause a pinch, and start a crack. If so, grind them smooth.Check the hole size 1st, top to bottom. We ground the hole bigger all the time.
I just slide them in from the side. Used tons of silicone spray. When they get close to the center, you bang them with the palm of your hand (my palms still hurt LOL ). You can get really ruff with them, never, I say never did I break one.
Once they are in, take a bone with a rag and spray Acrysol and clean the rubber out really good all around the inside.
I would put 2" wide masking tape along the rubber on the body side, then use a chalking gun, to put urethane in the rubber sides, top and bottom, all the way around. Do one side of the coach glass at a time (urethane), then install the zipper. Then do the other side. let sit 24 hours, and pull off the tape. Clean the glass.
You may have to trim the excess urethane with a razor blade on the glass if you put too much in. You don't have to go crazy to seal them.
You might check with Foretravel, they may do them different now. But I plan to replace my own myself, and do it this way. At the time, this was the required way per Foretravel.
I did both sides start to finish in 1.5 hours which included old glass removal. Got paid 6.5 hours flat rate. But included putting new Velcro up.
Extra time for any fiberglass work. Most the time, that is what caused the break to start with.
Here is a link to acrysol
acrysol - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=acrysol&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=631&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=-UhLLeY3nwjKWM%253A%252COZw-YUa5fVA9FM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTKzcQ2nweZ0gXBWzNUTQAOp2MCMw&ved=2ahUKEwi7sbGctZ_jAhXOLs0KHRc3DpsQ9QEwBHoECAIQBg#imgrc=-UhLLeY3nwjKWM:)
PM me any questions, it goes to my personal email. Not on here much anymore.
Chris
Title: Re: Windshield Crack Cause?
Post by: Mr B3 on July 06, 2019, 04:12:04 am
Moron cut the glass, He didnt realise it went under the top rail or cap, and had to slide in sideways, Then being short, It slid all over the place, Even being glued in,