It isn't like I have forgotten to be grateful for not having issues with the power steering box... but I guess it is my turn. I last checked the hydraulic reservoir level in Leduc ( about 300 miles ago, near Edmonton) and it was as usual, near the full cold mark. I went to get something out of the front compartment and I noticed a couple of canvas bags were soaked. At first, I thought it was water splashed up as we have driven several days in the rain (It is like the rainiest June ever here, according to some I have talked with). Anyway, I could smell oil and checked the reservoir and found it to be on the low cold mark. The side of the Sheppard box has a film of oil on the lower two thirds. I haven't found the source of the leak. Hoping it isn't a catastrophic rupture of a seal. Mea culpa, I haven't done an adjustment of the stops, though I always try to avoid the extremes and backoff immediately if I sense the stop or hear anything that sounds like a complaint. Still, I wish I had prioritized checking it while on a nice flat concrete pad (I had the chance at Bill C's, but was busy doing other projects). That said, we have been in a few tight spots that required as much cut angle as I could get (without pinning it to the stops, of course). Posting some pictures for your vicarious enjoyment.
If it is possible, I want to try and get the rebuilt at Red Head when passing through Washington, pay a core charge and then send them mine when done. I don't know if that will work, but I can dream! First step is to determine how much it is leaking... Open to ideas as to the best way to go about it. Right now, I will just fill the reservoir and maybe add some seal conditioner (product suggestions welcome!). Anybody know what the low point on the stick amounts to? I am guessing a quart, but I don't know. Knock on wood, the fan motors seem to be okay...
Don
Don, I've had real good luck with Lucas Hydraulic oil booster and stop leak.
Don, don't blame yourself, stuff happens. Sounds like you are on the right track.
If you have not replaced it since new , you are way overdue by calculations the 2003's should be all springing a leak now with the 2004's coming up soon. In the research I did, it has nothing to do with mileage, only age.
My coach in 350 miles lost around 2 gallons of oil, which ended up on the side of coach along with being on the coach that was behind me. It was a mess cleaning it up. I was able to finish our trip only using about another gallon. I took a empty gallon jug and cut it to fit below the steering gear box to catch the oil that was leaking.
Does Redhead rebuild hydraulic fan motors? Off topic I know, but sort of related.
George
No comments on the pictures? This is before wiping the oily film off. It is hard to judge how much the canvas bags are holding in suspension, but it took about ¾ of quart to come up to the full cold mark. It is hard to judge, because some road splash got in there while driving. The bottom of the compartment looked like it had a mix of oil and water on it, but I estimate no more than a cup. I need start it to raise it up to put frame blocks in so I can change the secondary fuel filter. I will try to see if I can spot where it is coming from.
Don
Don, maybe it's my poor eyesight but in the pictures the steering box looks pretty clean. I'm guessing that when you checked the fluid level and it read cold, the system was warmed up? Maybe a fitting? Your box has probably timed out........... just asking.
I found the source of the leak! Dead center on the street side of the box from what I assume must be a cover over the shaft and seal.
Foretravel Sheppard M100 leak - YouTube (https://youtu.be/gG7lDyp455I)
About a drop every three or four seconds at 800 RPM fast idle. This must have just happened, or it would have been a lot worse of a mess over the last 300 miles since I checked the level. I will try a seal conditioner and put a container underneath as we try to finish our Canada trip (another few months!). If possible, I will replace that seal... have to research the part number and source. I probably already have it, but feel free to post it if it is handy for you. I still want to do the rebuild, but it would be nice to choose the place and time!
Don
You might want to grab one on your way south to save freight one way. Call Dan at Redhead for availability.
Tim Fiedler
Gen-Pro.biz
630 240-9139
That's what I am hoping Tim! Thanks to you, it may work out. A lot depends on what I see on the next leg of our trip which will bring us to John Haygarth's place. Then taking the ferry to Vancouver Island for a few weeks. Not a whole lot of driving on the Island, then taking the ferry to Anacordes, WA. The plan was to be crossing the border into Washington at the end of August, but we may have to adapt. If I can change the seal, it should work out. I had no idea the seal was under the cover on the sides. If I am right, it should be doable without taking the box out. Still hoping to hear from someone who has changed that seal...
Don
This will sound a little unbelievable but I had the same exact leak two weeks ago I was able to pull the six bolts out and when I removed the end plate the hydraulic seal had a little plastic ring that holds the seal that was disintegrated had little pieces of blue material causing the lip seal not to function properly I was able to wipe everything and wash clean and replace the seal and drove another eight days without any leak the end cap Will have a caged roller bearing inserted in it you don't even have to remove the roller bearing you can just pry out carefully the lip seal that's my story
It's very doable and you don't even need to pull the endcap more than maybe an inch or half inch away leaving the cage Bearing still engage with the shaft itself The new seal kit that I ordered shows the replacement seal has two instead of one big seal and it tells you to gingerly manipulate them back into the groove
If you need to know anything more about this particular job call me at 281-744-7699 I'm only going to be in phone range for another two hours
If you do decide to do the RedHead rebuild they promise a 24 hour turn around of your unit if you deliver it to them. That promise stretched to 48 hours for my rebuild but I had told them I didn't need it that soon. We stayed at a campground in Puyallup. I did the remove & install in the campground. I would arrange to get the pitman puller from whoever has it on the forum before you attempt the job.
Hopefully you just need the seal. That job looks a lot easier!
see ya
ken
Don,
The Part Number for the seal kit is 5545221 from RedHead. It will be an entire seal kit for about $120. They don't sell just that seal. I just replaced the exact seal your talking about last week.
You remove the 18mm bolts, and then remove the side plate. A dental type pick will help in remove the old seal. You lose about a quart of fluid while doing the job. Overall, not terrible, but I really had to pry to get the side plate loose. I replaced the big O ring while I was in there.
By the way, that side plate cover is magnetic, and it will pull right off, showing the end of the shaft and you can probably see you leaking spot.
Flatfisher53 was instrumental in providing me information on doing the job.
Good Luck, Safe Travels
Thanks Mark
I really don't want to spend that much for a seal kit since I want to get a RedHead rebuilt unit and that unit would have all new seals as well as the blueprinting. I went on eBay and found a seller that sells seals (
steering_seal_kits is the sellers eBay ID) for all makes (so he says) and he has just the two sector shaft seals for about $10. I am having the shipped to an address in Canada, so we will see how that goes. Shipping to Canada cost twice as much as the seals ::) ! But the seller has free shipping in the US.
Sheppard M100 Sector Shaft Seal ONLY | 2 Pieces | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sheppard-M100-Sector-Shaft-Seal-ONLY-2-Pieces/173254380316)
Whether or not I will end up changing the seal up here depends on how fast it is is going through the oil. I plan to stop frequently and check the container I placed under it.
Don
Don,
Great find !!! Wish I would have spent a little more time searching. Well, I guess at least I have all the seals if I ever need them. However, my plan is to get the full Redhead unit in the near future just to be safe.
Hopefully, yours will just stay at a small drip and you won't need to change on the road.
Safe travels.
Mine started leaking on the easily accessible side so I decided to pull the end cap and take a look. Like John posted earlier, I found pieces of blue stuff had gotten under the seal lip which caused the leak. Further investigation showed the blue bits were from a blue sealant placed on the seal seat during manufacture that had started to deteriorate. I cleaned out the old sealant with a pick and reinstalled the old seal which still looked good and no more leak. This may explain why most failures are due to age not mileage. The other side started to leak about 6 months later so, although more difficult on that side, removed, cleaned and reinstalled which fixed it also. I wonder how many of the steering box failures are due to the same issue.
Ed,
When you write that you pulled the end cap off, you referring to to the cover held on by 8 bolts rather than the plastic cap with a weep hole from which the leak issues? I want to try to make it about another 300 miles to get to a place I can work on it, but I am tempted to pry off that plastic cover to see what I can see. The worry is that it might come off in pieces and then I will be worse off. On the other hand, if the seal can be accessed from there without pulling the cover, then maybe I can clean up the blue bits (if that is indeed what is causing it). When you did the other side, you must have had to pull the pitman arm off. Were you able to do that without removing the box?
Don
Don't ever try to plug the weep hole on a steering box, it relieves pressure from internal seals that have failed. The steering could lock up if the pressure isn't relieved. Learned this one on one of my cranes.
Plugging it wouldn't occur to me, but it would be interesting to find out what can be seen under the plastic cap. I am hoping to know if that blue stuff can be cleaned from there or if the bolted on cover needs to come off before I experiment. I have the bucket in place and the compartment is packed, so I probably won't try anything until I have the seal in hand... unless it starts puking out. Hopefully, that won't happen! I would like to get back to home base before removing the box and getting a rebuild from Redhead, but if things go south before we do, then I might be able to do the rebuild thing when we get to Washington. I would just have to figure something out for the puller. I might have to end up buying one.
Don
I had to remove the bolts from the steel end cap and remove it with a puller centered on the main shaft (it has a name which I have forgotten). The plastic cap is just a dust cover. Mine was just held in place with silicon and came off easily. I did have to remove the Pittman arm from the other side which I accessed by pulling the gen forward and crawling behind it. That worked on my model but not sure if would work on others. Once the Pittman is removed, the shaft can be pulled out from the other side pretty easily and the seal accessed.
Don, Just noticed I didn't clearly answer your question about the box. If you mean the steering gear box, I worked on it in place. I was by myself and don't think I could have removed it easily because of the weight. Much easier now that I know what to do and am able to wiggle into the tight spot behind the gen. Also, on mine, there is a sufficient size hole in the generator enclosure to access the pittman. Hope you are able to find a good solution. Ed
Don,
In your pictures, your box looks identical to mine. That side cover on mine was magnetic, I just pulled it right off, wiped up the area behind it and it stuck right back on, no prying or silicone needed.
Mark
Update: we traveled 200 miles today from Cranbrook B.C. To Grandforks B.C. and only lost about half a liter, give or take. I stopped three times on the way to check it out, and felt reassured it isn't a gusher (yet). I am convinced that getting the redhead rebuild and setting the plungers will be the final solution. I still may do the seal, even if it hasn't noticeably progressed just to be on the safe side. Attached is a picture of my cereal bin catch can with the day's harvest. It appears that it is all being captured, no signs of a film of oil on the stuff in the compartment.
Don
Does anyone know about steering gear automatic limit?
I read some Sheppard's have manual left & right settings on the gear box and some Sheppard's do not have the two manual screwdriver settings.
Barry
That is my understanding also, the mechanic at Tillamook Diesel (Joe) tool one look at my old and Redhead rebuilt gearboxes and told his boss that they were manual adjust because they had the screw adjustments and were not the auto adjust. He spent about 15 to 20 minutes with me at the steering wheel to get them set like he wanted. I believe he made some adjustment to the physical stop bolts also.
Justin
Update: I ordered and received the sector shaft seals (seals only) at John Haygarth's place and removed the 8 bolts holding the street side cover on(non pitman side). As posted by opelgt327 and Ed Pancake, the remains of what looks like blue Loctite were visible around the seal. John and I picked out all the blue pieces without removing the bearing. I was reluctant to remove the bearing because if it is put in with loctite, I was afraid I would damage it. Since I plan on getting a Redhead rebuild, I don't want to spend anymore than necessary on the old one. It almost seemed that the old seal is undersized on the outer diameter because once the debris was cleaned up, the seal turned easily in the cover by hand. At any rate, I decided to just bolt the cover and see if it was still leaking. I can't say for certain without a real world test drive, but it appears to have stopped the leak completely. The plastic cover on ours was held on by what looked like some clear double stick tape. We glued it back on with a bit of caulking after I ran it to check for leaks. It has definitely improved the situation, but time will tell if it lasts until I get a Redhead rebuilt unit installed. As other have mentioned, getting the cover off was the hardest part. The bearing felt good and spun freely without being loose or binding.
While I was there, I took a shot of the treadle valve. It looks like I can get at most of the air line fittings if needed. I thought I would have a look at the air schematic to see if the numbers match up to what I can see in the photo.
Don
CAUTION!!! Off topic comment! Do not read without adult supervision!
Very nice photo of the treadle valve, with all the air line ID numbers clearly visible! ^.^d
The valve appears to be metal on the top section, and a composite on the bottom. Do you have a part number for it?
This is the closest I could find with a quick Google search: https://www.anythingtruck.com/product/070-KN22150.html
Don,
I just received a call from Daniel at Redhead telling me my rebuilt box is in the way. He handled my rebuilt with the utmost professionalism. He sent me a prepaid shipping label at his discount to ship my original unit to him. He rebuilt it and shipped it in one buisness day. He kept me informed and he was really great to work with!
Hopefully the rest of your seals hold up until you get home to replace the whole unit.
Did you send your core in for a rebuild?
If not and you are doing an exchange ...........maybe it's our core we sent back to Redhead the last week in June? ;D
If so it was a good tight box only the seal blew out on us.
Hope yours works as good as ours did! ^.^d
I sent in my box to be rebuilt. It was a $300 savings versus getting the one he had in stock and sending in mine as a core. I have more time than money!
Well, now the other shoe has dropped :o The pitman arm side of the Sheppard box has become incontinent... after a grueling 10 mile stretch on a corkscrew road between Auburn and Coloma on the way to the Thousand Trails Ponderosa campground from Redding, CA. I of course have been checking the hydraulic reservoir frequently so I know it happened on this last stretch. Still in the assessment mode right now as we got here well after dark last night. Now I have to come up with a plan. Oh well, there goes the Tahoe trip and a complete reshuffle of plans, reservations, etc.
Just when I was feeling so happy about conquering the dreaded stop engine light after all this time... :o
For those so inclined to notice such things, my generator compartment needs some TLC. :o It is on my list!
was worried when you dodged the bullet replacing the "easy" seal that this might happen.
These boxes are 15 - 25 years old, and when one seal fails, likely the others are not far behind. I proactively replaced my M100 so I could do it at my convenience and ad least cost.
Everyone driving on the still original M100 PDP1 (1993 - 2003????) should consider a proactive replacement at your convenience rather than risk a break down in an inconvenient (and expensive) spot - as recently happened to "that Irish girl" and now Don.
Where are you at now Don?
We are at the Ponderosa RV Resort (Thousand Trails) north of Placerville and South of Auburn.
http://maps.apple.com/?address=7291%20CA-49,%20Lotus,%20CA%20%2095651,%20United%20States&ll=38.808932,-120.903634&q=7291%20CA-49&_ext=EiYpTW1f5/dmQ0Ax4umylDM6XsA5y0KFQx5oQ0BBJlxhtHY5XsBQAw%3D%3D&t=m
The logistics are going to be challenging. We had reservations for 2 nights, and so now Tys has managed to get us extended so we can be here in this park for a full three weeks. Now I have to acquire a puller, check availability of the rebuilt unit, etc. I had hoped that we would be back at or near home base where I could more easily arrange the shipping etc.
Oh well, life is what happens while you are making other plans!
Don
I agree with what Tim had said. Question is not if, but when they will let loose. From what I have seen it is not by mileage but by age.
My assessment of the severity of the leak confirms that I won't be driving the coach very far before putting a Redhead rebuilt M100 in. I put a short video on YouTube showing the leak at idle.
Sheppard M100 Pitman Arm Seal Leak - YouTube (https://youtu.be/uulSrRl7ax0)
Overall, I calculate that I had lost about 2 Qts. so I am quite sure that the twisty road (the 49) between Auburn and Coloma was the final straw. I found out that I can get stuff shipped to this RV Park, and the park has agreed to work with us to let me work on it. Now to locate one of the pullers... I used some 3M command strips to stick a couple of magnets onto a plastic sheet and directed the flow into a wash pan. It worked surprisingly well... the picture shows what was collected after about 15 minutes of running to move from a water and electric only site to full hook up site.
Don
"I don't need a hobby, I own an RV."
FWIW as an irrelevant aside, organ builder C.B. Fisk Gloucester, MA. made a product for the industry called slider seal. It solved a problem. It was popular. And the foam rubber it was made for had a pretty specific fail by date. Years later, they all failed about the same time.
Be thankful the Sheppard boxes are failing by the age of the seals and not by internal wear. Internal wear, the usual cause for seal failure.
Art
Don,
While servicing the coach before our trip to the Pacific Northwest last June, I examined the Sheppard box and it showed no signs of leaking. Thought about getting it replaced before the trip but just couldn't bring myself to changing something that wasn't broken when other things needed my attention. Turns out that was a big mistake, others on here had warned about the Sheppard once it reached the 20 year mark and we were at 24 years. I decided to wait until it showed some "signs" of failing. Well it made it from Florida to Tillamook Oregon, gave up the ghost all at once. Luckily we were 10 miles or so from our RV park where we had reservations and Tillamook had a diesel shop. We got lucky as it only cost us two days of our vacation and we rented a car and made the most of it.
Sorry it happened to you and we wish you luck in getting a quick repair done. All part of the RV life....................
Justin
Where can you get a Sheppard box, and what do they cost?
Chris
I have seen it listed in the past but can't seem to fins post.
RedHead Steering Gears - Manual & Power Steering Gear Box (http://redheadsteeringgears.com/)
They rebuild-- actually blueprint to tighter than factory specs.
Somewhere there is a spare steering box that you may be able to locate from our last member to have it, or it may be at Red Head so they may have one in stock.
Thought Mr. Tim had Redhead set up an exchange program a few months back.Since your paying for round trip shipping anyway
wonder if it's any better to have them rebuild your box,will take longer is the only drawback.
Shepard M100 PDP1 rebuilds now available from Redhead for EXCHANGE! (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=37122.0)
I emailed the primary contact person for the Redhead M100 forum program inquiring about availability and pricing, which I had understood to be $495 for the rebuilt unit on the shelf, plus core ($500), plus shipping (approx. $100 each way). I got back an auto reply saying he was on vacation until Monday, Nov. 11th. A few minutes later I got also got a response from Brad in sales.
So I responded with this;
To which he responded with the following (my emphasis in bold);
I won't know what the bottom line is until Monday, but if what Brad says is true, it is pretty disappointing to have to pay a convenience fee to use the cores originally supplied by our own Tim Fiedler! Since I am probably going to have to buy the puller at about $250, this is getting pricey!
Don
EDIT: I edited my quoted email from myself to Redhead to fix my math error for the benefit of forum members to reflect the true costs of this repair. $795 & $500 core charge for the off the shelf unit vs. $495 plus $500 core charge as expected (they really, really want the core!) is effectively a $300 convenience fee, or $496 to rebuild mine (though Brad states that price does NPT include any necessary parts). Shipping is wash, so I don't include that though I have to budget about $200 for the two way shipping.
Several years back when I did mine it cost me about $100 to ship the box to RedHead. There was a 24hr turnaround, the return shipping was about $40 because RedHead has a commercial UPS account. The box rebuild was less than $500.
You might ask RedHead to ship you a UPS label at there UPS shipping charge. You could also try USPS to ship it.
I have the puller and socket ready to go if you need it.
Lon,
It could easily turn out that may be the best bet, but I will have to wait until Monday to find out. On the plus side, Chris, my RV neighbor in this park, has offered to give me a hand with the R&R of the unit. I told him that it was heavy (100lbs.?) and said he could do it in his sleep. Looking at him, I have no reason to doubt it... Worse comes to worse, I have the two sector shaft seals with me and I could probably do something about the pitman-side seal with the box in place and the bottom cover removed with the gen pulled out. Whatever I do still depends on pulling the pitman arm, so while I think it is possible that I might be able to figure a way to get it off without that slick puller, I sure don't fancy the idea of trying!
Don
Don, I don't have my Red Head receipt in front of me at the moment but I will check on it later today. As I remember I bought a core from Dave Head for $100.00, called Red Head and asked them to issue a UPS call tag, which they did to get the box out to Washington. The charge was $496.00 plus $80.00 UPS both ways. After I swapped out the steering boxes I sold my original to Richard Bark for $100.00 and I believe he then duplicated my transaction.
I think the box weighs 160 - 180 lbs.
Don, that's exactly what I did also. Then it went to David Damer, then I lost track of it until Tim F got it.
Don
This past June the charge was $495. for the unit on their shelf plus the $500. core charge that was refunded when Redhead received my old unit. Shipping was $100. including a return shipping label. total charge was right at $1100. and $500 was refunded a few days later when they received the core in good repairable condition. Not sure why such and increase in price...... convenience fee? :o
On a side note, the shop had a difficult time removing the pittman arm. They had the correct puller and a 1/2" impact wrench on it also. Shop guy hammered on it for quite a while before going and getting a different impact, still no luck. Then out came the torch bottles, "this aint good" I thought to myself as I grabbed my fire extinguisher. In a few minutes the torch and impact won the battle and the pitman hit the floor.
Yours may come off easy.......... just wanted you to be prepared in case it doesn't. Oh.... and yes I was at a big truck diesel repair shop that has changed many of these boxes according to the owner.
I recently bought a remanufactured redhead and it was stupid expensive to use his core. I lost two weeks sending mine in for rebuild and return shipping.
If you use a credit card that has the right due date, the money never leaves your bank using their core.
Trying to understand above post,if you bought a reman how did he rebuild yours?,to me it does'nt matter what the core charge is
you get it back.If you opt to send yours in and let them rebuild it,it's going to take time,no way around it!!
They rebuilt mine in one day. I think they sent me a rebuilt off the shelf and hopefully not out of a NYC garbage truck.
They had 2 cores supplied by Tim. When I talked to them earlier this year they said if I gave them notice they would rebuild a core and have it ready for me when I need it. Just have to line up all my ducks, and have the pitman arm puller at hand.
My shop also has problems removing the Pittman arm. They ended up using a "spider" tool instead of the Sheppard tool
Were they able to drop the box with the arm on it? If so I have pullers that would work also. Always thought the arm had to come off first.
Think the box is in a flange so the arm is a must to remove before hand.
As I research this issue, I am comforted that Sheppard has an excellent website in so far as it has easily downloadable manuals, videos about changing the seals, setting the plungers, identifying your unit, serial and model number decoding, etc. I have already downloaded the relevant videos and the manuals of course... Maybe I will just change out the seals myself on a picnic table as one member suggested to me in a PM. It depends on what I learn after talking to Redhead on Monday as well as another resource a forum member pointed me to is this outfit in Texas: http://chalks.com/ so I will give them a call on Monday as well. Nothing can happen until I get ahold the pitman arm puller... then all will be revealed! Before then, I will remove the bottom cover from the generator and pull it out to see what access I can get. Maybe I can get an HD adjustable jaw type puller in from there. That I could rent in Placerville, which is only about 10 miles away. I have one of those at home that has never failed me... should have brought it! :o
Sheppard M100 resource pages;
Links to instructional videos found here;
RH Sheppard | Service and Instructional Videos (http://www.rhsheppard.com/customer-service/service-and-instructional-videos/)
Links to M100 relevant PDF manuals;
http://www.rhsheppard.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/M-Series-Service-Manual-1000400-Rev-A-Legacy-version.pdf
Link to Sector Shaft Seal Replacement video;
http://www.rhsheppard.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/RHShep-English-Sector-Shaft-Seal-Replacement.mp4
Link to Input Seal Replacement;
http://www.rhsheppard.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/RHShep-English-Input-Seal-Replacement.mp4
Link to Relief Plunger Adjustments;
http://www.rhsheppard.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/RHShep-English-Relief-Plunger-Adjustments.mp4
Link to End Cap Seal Replacement (M-Series);
http://www.rhsheppard.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/RHShep-English-End-Cap-Seal-Replacemen_M-Series.mp4
And the beauty of sharing these resources and my experiences in using them on the forum is that I can always find it again when I forget.
Don
Did you locate the puller?
I was planning on replacing my steering box upon our return to Florida this fall. Primarily due to significant steering wander. Luckily we had no leaks, but aware with the age of the unit, that a problem might manifest itself at an inconvenient time.
I contacted Redhead this summer about ordering an M11 so I'd have it on my return. I was also told about the new "convenience charge" they added to the rebuild cost. I thought it odd that a forum member likely spent some good time and effort getting those cores to Redhead for Foretravel owners and that this was the new pricing model they choose to implement... Unfortunate and costly in my opinion.
On our way back on I-10 in October stopped in Houston at a great shop who pulled the steering box, sent it to Chalk, (also in Houston) for a rebuild. Chalk had the unit back that afternoon. We were back on our way a day and a half later... Coach drives like new!
Don, I had a couple offers from forum members to borrow their Pitman Arm Puller. PM me if you need contacts.
Jeff
I do have a line on one, but not confirmed as of yet. If home I could make one... next trip, I am bringing my little MIG welder!
Don
I sent 2 out that I made. Can't remeber who borrowed it but I think it was supposed to go to craneman after that person was done with it.. I can do a search but I have some plates cut already if you need another one. I can make it and send it out on Monday .
My box was worn internally with a slight "catch" noticeable when turning.
Noticeable tighter now and no catch. I preloaded the front wheel bearings and my tiny play went away.
No preload. Slight play.
Rebuild box less play. Almost gone.
Now to preload the bearings again.
Should be like new then.
It's a sum of the plays thing it seems,
Rebuilt box. Preloaded bearings. All front end parts tight and lubed and the right tires.
Just like Foretravel shipped new....
The person called me that was down stream of one of them and I didn't want to bogart it as I won't do mine until Dec. He was either going to keep it until someone else needed it or send it back where he borrowed it from.
I am still researching my options for putting the Sheppard M100 issue to rest. Come Monday I will find out the story at Redhead, but in the mean time, I am entertaining the notion of getting a seal kit and doing it myself on a picnic table. Amazon Prime has this combined seal kit available for $105.
Amazon.com: R. H. Sheppard 5545751 Combined Kit with Snap Ring and L-Seal... (http://www.amazon.com/R-H-Sheppard-5545751-Combined/dp/B01JYGIVYM/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Sheppard+M100+Combined&qid=1573409408&sr=8-1)
I doubt that I would need all of those seals, but it should include everything. The steering feels pretty darn good, though it is tempting to think that sending it off to get the spa treatment at Redhead or other outfit could make it better yet. All I could do is change the seals... but buying the seal kit even if I had to buy a puller would save quite a few bucks! Decisions, decisions ::)
Don
When I was searching for the Shepherd puller there were at least three in the Forum 2 supplied by David S. Someone should remember where they are. Buying the puller should be a last option. My memory isn't perfect, but David borrowed one and returned it with along with a second one he made , then David sent at least one to another member. Don't want to post names in case my memory is wrong.
David S. has very kindly offered to make one and send it off on Monday, but I am waiting to hear back from another member about sending one off, but I have no confirmation as yet as they are no doubt busy with life beyond Foretravel. ^.^d Buying one will be a last ditch option, but I am just saying buying the puller for one time use and getting a kit would still be cheaper than going through Redhead or any other vendor. What gives me pause and why I don't order the kit right now in anticipation of having the tool in hand is that maybe talking to Daniel at Redhead on Monday might convince me that using them will not only be easier, but that I will end up with a better result. That is what will make me part with bux. :o
Don
No point in buying one.. I can have one made up in less than an hour at the shop.. its not a problem..Pm me the address and I will have one ready for tomorrow just in case..
Don,
I sent you a email Saturday with a tracking number for the USPS.
You will have the puller and socket on Tuesday.
Thanks Lon!
Did you send it to the address under my profile info? (acoustic.artist@gmail.com) If so, could you send it again as I haven't gotten anything from you yet. I did look at the junk mail and it didn't seem to be there either ::)
Don
Yes it was sent to that email address.
Info sent to your other email address , sounds like you received that and all is good.
I did NOT send you probably the most important "tool" required for this job, A large bottle of your favorite "mood enhancer", You will need it, You won't need a glass!
Awesome Lon, thanks! I have the tracking and now I have the UPS shipping label from Redhead. I talked to Daniel directly and got some clarification on the pricing, and what I called (and wasn't corrected by Brad) the "Convenience fee". Shipping to and from the Placerville UPS Store will be $73 each way using their commercial account. The rebuild price is $496 which will include all the seals and snap rings (I assume ::) , but hard parts like the sector shaft etc. would be added to the total. The $300 difference with the on the shelf units is a sort of core insurance. In other words, the core could be trashed and you still get your core charge back. I guess it makes sense to them, but I find it hard to like. No matter, by sending them my presumably good unit and all they do is reseal it, then at least I can skip the core charge and the messiest part of the project. If it comes back to me improved by having being given the blueprinting treatment, so much the better. Working here in the RV park, I wouldn't be able to properly clean the parts without abusing the campsite. Plus I am slowww..... I feel lucky that the RV park will work with me so that I can work on it here and get packages delivered.
Don
Does the taper part next to the pitman arm come off with pitman arm or does my puller need to miss the taper
Thanks
Chris
Had noticed a small amount of oil on gear box last week. Went on a short weekend trip put coach back in shed went out today and found oil on floor from leaking gear box so pre planning has turned into got to fix it!!!
I am pretty sure the taper stays put and that the puller seats on the notch on each side of the arm. I will find out for sure tomorrow... I now have the puller in my hands! Man, that was quick. I am feeling very optimistic at this point. Light at the end of the tunnel! Thanks Lon! ^.^d
Don
That taper piece is rubber. We have been able to push it out of the way but it has a tendency to fall apart due to age. Replacements are available.
Mike
When they overhaul the box do they include one of these or is that extra that you need to ask for?
Chris
The last one that I helped with from RH the boot that they have in stock was the short one. The boots on our coaches are the long ones. We used the short one as that is what we had and it worked just fine. It was included IIRC.
Mike
He sent it back to the owner. Haven't been able to contact him yet.
Justin, it is apparent that their management must have had a meeting sometime after June when yours was done and decided that "one in the hand is worth two in the bush" so to speak. In this case, I would disagree with their decision. Sure they bought two of their cores from Tim F., but once they decided they could get a $300 premium for having quick shipping stock, the so called forum cores were just two that they had acquired. Business decisions don't often favor the customer... that's okay. I am alright with the $496 rebuild/reseal price, I just won't have quite warm fuzzy feeling I might have felt toward Redhead. If they do me right, I will still recommend them, just not quite as enthusiastically.
Don
Well dang, I looked over the Shepherd info you posted, (thanks for that) and determined that a re-seal would be a piece a cake for you. Was looking forward to the report. Removing unit I expect is most definitely not cake.
So, is it a given that Redhead does the full rebuild/blueprint balls regardless of condition of gear when they get your core? They are going to rebuild yours, right, as opposed to shipping one of their prebuilt units?
Eric is who it was sent back to as I have heard.. I sent him a PM to get it straight but He has either not seen the alert or has decided not to reply.. Kinda sucks as I took the time to put one together for him in a rush as he was stuck and we cant get a response at to where the old one is or not.. I have been told many times in my life... "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished"
So I will make another one and send it to craneman... I guess making a couple extras for other in need has created an opportunity for others to use as a paper weight.. >:(
Will mail the new one out fri to Craneman... Anyone else needs one I am making another EXTRA for back up...
Guess some of the members dont understand that this piece is for sale for around $300.. deep pockets for a 15 min use..
Get 200$ deposit on pay pal .
Not an issue for me.. I can make these all day with scrap.. but I do not charge any of the members shipping I do that out of my pocket.. Anything to help..
The one Dave sends me will be available as soon as I park the coach under the canopy. Won't need it to re-install the box. I will make a new post in Tech Talk with the title "Sheppard pitman arm puller made by David S." when I am finished with it. Maybe this one will leave tracks where it is at.
Eric is now sending me the puller David made for him. Another mystery solved
I need some guidance, I built a pitman arm puller made a plug to cover the threads and put lots of torque on puller — it won't budge. Suggestions appreciated
Chris
Tapered splines are the worst. You probably could get the puller as tight as you can and whack the arm on the side. The same way tie rod ends and auto control arms are loosened. Don't bother hitting the end of the bolt on the puller as hitting the side of the arm is much more effective.
Spray , heatgun. Rapp on side. Heatgun,spray, hit,
First thing I would do is add some oil to try to reduce as much friction as possible to make sure you're actually getting as much torque as you believe I've always had good results by going to the steering wheel and just rocking it back-and-forth with the wheels on the ground just to allow the Pitman arm to load up just slightly
Are you using the original bolt? Remove the bolt and install the puller , use the original bolt to pull the pitman arm off.. massive amount of torque to pop loose.. once it breaks loose it comes off easy
He's not using a puller like you make. He is pushing in the center with the puller. Not pushing outward with the Sheppard type puller.
I try to avoid pushing in the naked shaft.
The center bolt is a much better idea imho.
The puller worked great! The hardest part was just breaking loose the nut. My Milwaukee ½" impact will break loose the lug nuts torqued to 450 ft.lbs. but struggled to bust the retaining nut loose... until I put a fresh 5ah battery in. It is a box at the ups store... Pretty worn out today.... time to take it easy!
Don
I agree, not seeing what Chris built I was thinking of a bolt with a nut, screwed into the shaft and using the nut to push back out on a puller. Opposite of a balancer installer.
Chuck, the retaining nut I am referring to is on the end of the sector shaft. The pitman arm is still attached on the drag link end. I supported the drag link and pitman arm with a ratchet strap looped around the rectangular tubing support assembly. I marked the end of the sector shaft with a Dremel so I can center the shaft and line up the pitman arm. I will post pictures after we get back from dropping it off at the UPS store. The clerk there said he couldn't tell me what, if anything it is insured for. I think I felt separation anxiety when dropping it off. BTW, it weighed in at 92.3 lbs.
Don
Chris's picture shows female threads, I will look at my coach to see what you are referring to.
Just looked at my coach, the spanner nut must be what you refer to.
My bad Chuck, what I was referring to is the retaining Bolt with a five eights inch ALLEN head bolt and locking tabs. Just shows how tired I am today!
Don
My setup must be different only about 3" between bolt and generator housing. No plate to remove. I have a 5/8 allen that I can put a pipe on to remove the bolt.
Chuck, I have the same setup as you I could not break the nut loose with 5/8 Allen and Cheater bar so I put my air jack under the Allen with a 3/4" X 20 pipe extension. cut a notch in top of pipe so Allen would not slip off other end on jack. It broke loose and was easy to get out after initial break loose.
My puller is different than Dave's that is reason for plug over threaded shaft in gearbox. I put a 7/8 -11 thread in face plate then tighten bolt against plug. The inside of my puller is 2" inside -front to back, and it just barely firs over the pitman arm.
For me to use the 5/8 bole in original hole with nut pushing out on puller I would have to build the puller 3" inside front to back.
Originally my back plate was 1/4 plate with a 2-1/2 inch notch to dit over the shaft. When I tightened it up with substantial torque the back (1/4") plate bent quite a bit. The new puller has 3/8" for the back plate, so tomorrow I'll see it it will work!!!
Had to take a break today and go see big boy in North Little Rock
Pics under Big Boy Post
Chris
Here are a few pictures during the removal process and access on a 99' U270 with the 8KW Powertech (Radiator is mounted on the generator slide). I didn't do anything with the steering column inside the coach, but were I to start over, I WOULD unbolt the steering column and lift it from the inside to free the input shat from the U-joint. I took it out from inside the compartment. Shipping weight was 92.3 lbs. packed in a box, so maybe 85 lbs. for the unit itself. The helpful receptionist(?) assured me that if I used their shipping label, I would be fully covered for a replacement if damaged or lost in shipping.
Don
Don, when we did them in the shop, we simply used a couple bungees to hold it up to the dash bottom.
I may be preaching at the choir, looks like you have it under control.
Chris
Got Sheppard box out with some modification and gravity--Getting it back in will be the trick!!!
any suggestions other than just lifting it up would be appreciated. As Don said it is heavy.
Took it to local repair shop where they have all the equipment to test it after rebuild. I talked to a local truck repair shop and they recommended these guys. Fellow at shop said they(Powers Truck and Equipment) did all their gear boxes.
Chris
I've read posts on using a floor jack. Until I do mine, I can only guess how they use it. I have a motorcycle jack and a transmission jack that I will probably use as they are more stable, 4 wide wheels.
My floor jack won't go that high I need almost 30 inches ( I have coach blocked up as high as it will go) I'm figuring on a trip to HF
to see what they have in small lift tables.
craneman don't let the box mash you when it comes out.
Chris
The motorcycle jack they sell can have wood cribbage added for more height. I have railroad ties and some 12x12 blocks I have used with mine.
Reading the above, it sounds like you have to get it out towards the headlights rather than through the compartment. I just put a plastic foldable stool under it and rocked it back towards me. I gather not having the blower and radiator with out little 8K generator has made this job a relative piece of cake... I am okay with that ^.^d !
I had my steering box out for rebuild on my 97 U320. I removed it through the front drivers side compartment. I used a 5 ft long 2x12 and a lift table. On mine there was enough room (2" clearance) under the M100 to slide one end of the 2x12 and support it on the the metal frame of the compartment back wall. Then raise the hydraulic lift table up to the proper height to create a platform for removal and installation. I used a piece of plywood on top of the 2x12 to create the exact height so that the box would not fall when unbolted and could be removed safely by one person. Just one option that worked for me.
Did you remove the remote radiator?
Ah crap. Last time we drove it thought the box needed to be replaced. Reading this tells me it's time.
Really really don't want to go there now with my home owners association giving me grief about the coach in my own driveway...
Might be needing that tool in a month or two.
Bob, if you take it out can't move coach!!!
I'm glad to lice in rural area even with all its drawbacks I don't have some busy body telling me what I can't do!!
Good luck
Chris
Yes Chuck, I took everything out of the compartment, and while empty repainted everything.
Update: I just heard from Redhead that the box is done. I asked what was done to it and this is what Brad told me: new seals, some of the seal seats were resurfaced, sector shaft cleaned up and the ball bearings were upsized to reduce slop. I couldn't feel any play by hand with the box out by turning the input shaft before sending it in, and never felt that there was a dead spot while driving, but maybe it will be even better now. I can't wait to get it back in and hit the road! ^.^d
The cost was as quoted, $496 for the 'custom' rebuild, $72 to ship each way so $640 total. No charge to paint the top of it red ::). They got it yesterday at about 11am and was told that it was finished today at around noon. Trying to get to our stomping grounds by thanksgiving and I told the receptionist just that. I think they got right on it. It is Wednesday and I have tracking for the UPS shipment. It should get here on Friday to the UPS store in Folsom... I will be right there waiting! ^.^d
Don
Got gear box back in--felt like I had been beat at the end of the day-- Borrowed a 600 FTLB torque wrench mine only went to 250 need 350 cut a 5/8" Allen wrench put it in a 1/2" drive impact socket, cut the drive end off the 1/2" drive socket with lathe then welded the 5/8 socket into a 3/4 drive 15/16 socket-- I know it's going around the world but I didn't have enough room for the torque wrench and the adapter then socket and no one around here has a 5/8 socket that is 3/4 drive. Then the trick was to get it Torqued to 350 FT LB -. I think I strained my wheaties doing that.
"According to Sheppard they recommend changing the oil in the system when box is rebuilt". The re-build company put the box on what they called a dynamometer and pressure checked everything with oil running through it. Do I still need to change the oil in the system and replace the filters?
Thanks
Chris
I would, all coaches we got in and PDI'd, we did the full service. The sump and the 3 filters was included. I have no issues, but did mine this summer.
Just Sayin'
This topic interests me as I will be putting the Sheppard back in tomorrow. At this point, I don't plan on changing the hydraulic oil until we get back. :o The hard parts in mine were all okay and I know that it never ran low on oil. Besides anything in the return line is going through the filters before it gets back to the pump and the supply is coming from the pump. So unless the pump is trashed and sending debris up the line, I don't see how changing the oil would be necessary before moving it. We have about 500 miles to go before we are back in So Cal... knock on wood.
Don
I agree with you Don. In a perfect world, I would do it. I blow out the trans cooler and lines, every trans refreshing on my race car. But my car is on the hoist. You are traveling.
I am sure you keep your stuff in top notch shape, and yes, if it had blown up or something, I would be more concerned.
Safe Trip
Chris
Well Delo 400 has additives and those do wear out over time and use, and even though you're comparing apples and lemons, it certainly would not be a bad thing to replace, the possibly original equipment, hydraulic oil and filters.
Another way to think about this is three questions. How much for oil and filters? How much for a power steering pump? and How much for a fan motor?
In my case, the hydraulic oil and filters have been changed twice in our ownership since 2011. It is of course desirable to change it, but necessary to do it before we get to home base? I don't think so... When we get back I will get that done along with oil and coolant before heading to AZ for the Q. ^.^d
Don
Don,
I agree, change after you get to home base this will give time for the system to circulate through "old" filters. Now if you had a complete failure of some component that would be different.
Mike
Yeah I screwed the pooch on that one. Of course do it after you get home! No harm, no foul. No contaminants, no bits and pieces. Only some seals that reached their service life.
FWIW on a strange Swiss lathe eponymously called the Escomatic, when the spindles became loose we'd install slightly larger balls in the bearings and put them back in service. Esco it seems never thought about removing the races . . .
I may have missed it, but I don't recall anybody describing the bleeding process after reinstalling the steering box. The instructions that came with the rebuilt units mentions that you have to work the steering wheel back-and-forth lock to lock 15 to 20 times, of course after having raise the front wheels off the ground without starting the vehicle.
I believe I can contrive a way to get the front wheels off the ground with my bottle jack, but it won't be easy because it is about 3/4 of an inch too tall to slide underneath so I will have to do a little bit of excavation... Anyway, I am posting the instructions for those who have done this process to comment whether or not they did something different to bleed the air out of the system. I judge the volume of the shepherd box to be a half gallon or less. They don't mention pre-filling the box before hooking up the line. But then again, I doubt there would be much benefit to that.
Don
Ready for the flak but I would change it to synthetic just to get the low temp viscosity benefit, the front to the back is a long way
and the less overpressure with cold oil the better, just my opinion.
Yes, that is another discussion! I will be doing research on this subject. I would love nothing better than to run Rotella T6 in all of the systems that can use it. Rotella T6 isn't on the shepherd approved fluids list, And of course we have to take into consideration the fan motors for the cooling system. I will be digging deeper into the specifications and researching the topic for the next major service.
Don
After figuring out Foretravel had over done the temp controller on our coach I changed the controller from 180 degrees full speed to the rest of the rv industries 199 degree Dynamatic fan controller. ,
This seems to have lowered the systems temperature running and took off up to 50 plus hp loss.
Identical temps after the change. Noticeably more power. Better fuel mileage.
Seemed like and turned out to be a good step to reducing the cooling systems wear as the Cummins dealer service manager mentioned the higher heat would wear the systems parts quicker plus the hp and mileage lost
When I did my steering box several years ago I changed the filters and replaced the hydro oil with Rotella T-6 Synthetic, same oil I use in the engine. No problems, I like the low temp flow with the synthetic in both applications.
Flashbob,could you post where you bought that controller again, thanks.
After changing my steering gear I didn't have a jack to lift the coach so bought 4 HDPE Poly cutting boards. Greased & paired them up in front of each front wheel and drove on top of them then did the stop to stop thing setting the stop clearance. (got idea from here on the forum)
Didn't change the oil. My system has separate pumps & reservoirs for fan & steering. Had lots of trouble with fan system overheating but steering system barely gets warm. I assume not a lot of friction in the system. Synthetic sounds like a good idea though. Keep us informed of any research you do in that area.
see ya
ken
Ken that's called a grease plate.
My Sheppard model/part number is TAS65M100, according to the book anyway.
Yesterday when I back our coach out I notice a dinner plate sized spot under the steering box.
My local guy has time to get it in AND has the tools.
Question.
If I call this Redhead place and order a rebuilt sent out, are the cores they have the same as mine?
Doing it myself is not an option as the weather and my work schedule won't allow.
All suggestions are welcome.
Many Thanks
It will cost you $300 more to have them send out one of their rebuilt units. If you can't wait to have yours shipped to them and returned then that would be your option. Their cores for our coaches are the same as ours.
Thanks Craneman.
I guess it will depend on whether or not my repair guy wants the coach at his place that long.
Either way it's gotta be fixed and my window of opportunity is closing fast with the approaching holidays.
UPDATE: I first need to give Lon Framke a shout out for getting the Sheppard puller to me so quickly. I don't know how I would have managed to get it done without it. Thanks Lon! The box is in and after about 400 miles, all is good! 👍
Some observations about the process. The bundle of cables, airlines, etc. that runs up into the dash, plus the brake light solenoid assemblies make it difficult to get the sector shaft through the hole in the mounting plate. For the cable bundle, I removed the clamp and used an endless loop ratchet strap to nudge it away from the box. The brake light switches are mounted on bulkhead fittings with air lines on one side and the wires on the other side of the sheet metal bulkhead fittings. Rotating the brake switch solenoid assemblies counter clockwise a few degrees gave me about a quarter inch of extra clearance.
It's definitely advisible to disconnect the chassis battery ground, as there are exposed 12v hot terminals exposed on the brake light solenoid switches right next to the Sheppard box. Some bullet points that come to mind.
When you send the unit in, make sure you note how the ninety degree fitting for the return line is clocked. Unfortunately I hadn't thought to take a picture of the box before I sent it in. >:( Thinking that the elbow was pipe thread and therefore put in with sealant and tightened to its final resting place, I had hoped that the the rebuilder would have noted the clocking of the fitting upon disassembly to put it back the same way. Unfortunately, it was180º off and so pointed up towards the framing above. I didn't notice how close the fitting would end up to the framing above until I had the box bolted in. Fortunately, I was wrong about the fitting used on the Sheppard M100 being pipe thread. Thankfully, it is one that uses a locknut (ORB?), so it I was able to rotate the 90º without removing the whole box by loosening the locknut, but just barely because of clearance. A 7/8" Crowfoot wrench and a long extension helps!
I made the mistake at connecting the easy fitting first (supply side). While I had the unit on a table in front of me, I had taken the caps off to see if any oil would come out. None did. So after I got it in and took the caps off of the JIC male fittings on the box, I connected the supply side first because it is easily accessed from inside the compartment. Apparently, there is enough residual pressure in the hydraulic system even after spitting for several days that will push oil out of the return line. Since it was necessary to attach the return line from underneath, this resulted in trying to turn the JIC flare nut with hands that were coated with 15W-40 while trying to align it with the fitting on the box. This proved to be an exercise in frustration. Several rounds of cleaning my hands and trying to get the flare nut started while laying on my back... Well, that wasn't fun all. Finally, after clocking the 90º to several different positions and rerouting the return hose, I found an angle that would let me get one hand on the return hose to wiggle it while rotating the flare nut with the other. This involved some yoga I didn't know I had in me to get my whole upper body inside the compartment, but it was better than doing it from underneath with oil running down my arm.
The Sheppard box is heavy with a high center of gravity when oriented as installed. Just when I had the unit situated and the sector shaft almost able to slip into the hole in the mounting plate, it would topple back and catch on the edge of the sheet metal compartment walls. I am afraid I chipped the paint :facepalm: I tried every which way to lift it in from underneath while supporting the weight with a short step stool, but I ended up needing at least one more hand to balance it. Finally, I routed a ratchet strap (endless loop type) over the steering column support bracket in the dash from above and through the hole around the steering column. I made a sling out fo some flat strapping that attached to the fittings at the top of the unit with a couple of cable clamps. Since I had the JIC caps on the fittings at this point, there was no danger of damaging the threads on the fittings. This arrangement kept the top heavy unit from twisting away by pulling on it from above. I would advance the ratchet several clicks from inside, go below and use wedges to hold it, then went back inside to release the ratchet to take up the slack and then tighten it up a few more notches. Finally, the sector shaft went in the hole on the mounting bracket. Supported from underneath with wedges, and then had to reposition the loop around my home made support sling to change the center of gravity so I could get the bolt holes to line up.
The first leg of our trip happened to be on a very windy day and I could barely feel it. The bleeding turned out to be a non issue. After hooking up the lines, I filled the reservoir and turned the steering wheel lock to lock numerous times without the pitman arm being hooked up. After running the engine and checking for leaks, I turned it almost lock to lock. I have yet to set the stops, but I am being very conservative in apply cut angle until I do. When I bring it back to home base, I will do it in the shop. So far, I am very happy with the result. Chris was in line for the puller tool, but he has already managed to get it done without Lon Framke's tool. Lon suggested I keep it until I am sure I don't need it anymore. I want to use it one more time before I send it back or on depending on what Lon says, so that I can get a new pitman arm retainer locking tab washer. The old one has shed several tabs reducing the number of choices for clocking the tabs to fit the grooves.
I intend to do a write up as time permits as there are a lot of things I wish I could go back in time and tell myself about this process, and but for now here are some pictures of the process.
Don
Good Job Don, I will use some of your advice on mine. Also you don't need to pull the pitman arm to replace the lock tab.
I know Chuck, but I want to properly torque the thing. I use my Milwaukee cordless ½" impact to put it on. It is rated at 700 ft. lbs. of fastening torque, but I didn't let it go until it couldn't go anymore. I tested it by trying to break it loose with a ½" breaker bar and a cheater. I feel sure that it is over 350 ft. lbs., but I want to know it's right. I have the stuff to do it properly at home base. I will be taking the coach there when next we move in a couple of weeks and will do the plunger settings and torque the pitman arm retainer then. I want the puller there when I do it just in case...
Don
Makes sense,
I will remove the auxiliary radiator and clear the box. Pull the generator out to make a hole to torque the nut. The way mine is set up, would be impossible to get my 600# torque wrench and allen socket on to torque the nut.
Chuck, I managed to get the torque wrench in without cutting a hole but it wasn't easy. I took a 1/2" drive black impact socket and cut about 1/2" off the drive end . I put that in a 15/16 3/4 drive socket with a 1" piece of 5/8 Allen in the 5/8 socket then welded this all together. It was just the right length once I put it on the torque wrench. NOW torquing that puppy to 350 while under the coach
that did strain my wheaties. This getting older isn't for the faint of heart. Got it all in and operational and like Don the bleeding was a non issue since the fittings were on the top of the box there was no place for air lock. you will probably need some help getting the fan box out, I couldn't hold the bolts while putting wrench on other side so I got a buddy to help me get fan out even though gearbox was already back in. I wanted to clean and paint box area.
Chris
Nice follow up Don.
Ordered ours today, delivery next Tuesday.
Had to go the expensive route due to holidays and upcoming trip
I did get $30 off by asking if they had a senior, military or 1st cousin discount.
Worth the extra money not to have to deal with this on the road.
Of course I would rather have put this cash towards installation.
Still can't believe that I looked at our steering box when Don started this thread.
It looked fine, 2 short 30 mile trips and here we are.
Has anyone replaced the steering box when doing the Xtreme headlight upgrade? Not sure it makes sense but it does seem access would be a breeze. Even though I have no issue with my 2001 steering box at this time I do have the headlight/ step upgrades scheduled for mid March. Better yet, maybe I should quit reading the forum just to find something else to worry over :))
Greg
Xtreme moves the coach in and out of the bay each day you are there. Would not be a viable option
When I did mine I was advised (can't remember who) to NOT use a impact when installing due to the hammering action on the steering box gears.
I torqued my bolt with a 1/2" dial torque wrench and a length of pipe added to the handle. I don't remember the formula for the pipe extension to multiply the torque readout. It was roughly 100# on the dial = 400# of torque at the socket.
I think Brett knows the calculation.
Much easier to use the shorter handle under the coach and can still muster the proper torque with a few good grunts.
Unless I'm reading it wrong 100# on the torque wrench dial is 100# on the socket, unless you have a torque multiplier.
Here is a sample of a calculation with extended crowsfoot or cut-off wrench.
That's great but he said he just had a pipe over a torque wrench and socket.
Then you would have to calculate the length of the pipe to center grip of torque wrench and adjust settings if adapter is used. Is this illustration what you are considering?
I think the process Brett has described is used for lug nut torque,a socket,a breaker bar and a cheater pipe can be set up for a desired torque.All I was saying is if you have a socket and a torque wrench with a dial and you move the torque wrench to 100 pounds you will have 100# on the nut no matter how long of a cheater pipe you use.
X2
Also if you are using 4:1 torque multiplier you don't get 4:1 torque ie if your torque wrench is reading 100# you are NOT getting 400# out of the multiplier. Depending on who you listen to you will loose 10 to 20% so a 100# reading on torque wrench will give you between 320# and 360# of actual torque
Chris
The way I torque lug nuts is different (importantly different):
On mine, the socket fits onto a 3/4" breaker bar. The handle of the breaker bar fits into the pipe/extension. The torque wrench is on the OTHER END of the pipe/extension (on mine, a 1/2" drive female socket is welded in just short of the other end of the pipe (at an exact pre-caculated distance so the formula in the link below can easily be used).
Very different in terms of actual torque applied for a given torque wrench reading than if the extension is on the handle end of the torque wrench. In that case it would lessen the torque YOU would have to apply, but torque would be exactly what the torque wrench read.
Have used this link to design and build and then verify calibration for several extensions-- the very best one made by a fellow Foretravel owner with a steel supply company.
Torque Wrench extensions (http://www.specialpatrolgroup.co.uk/spooky/torque/torque.html)
Chris,
That is the same thing that 4X states about the TD-1000. I had the calibration verified and mine is with in 2%. It is important for the multiplier to be checked along with the torque wrench to see what there real values are.
Mike
Planning on pulling the steering box on Tuesday and sending off to Redhead once I have a pair of hands to help. Is it ok to raise the coach to safety block height while doing the steering box rebuild/ replacement?
Greg
Yes.
I would drive on some blocks on the front also, if it doesn't interfere with the fridge.
I needed all the height I could get on the coach in order to get a wrench on the return line fitting from underneath. It may depend on the clocking of the 90 degree fitting and the routing of the return line.
Don
Thanks for this great post on the steering box. Mine started leaking last trip we took and on so it's time to rip it out. I am having trouble removing the retainer nut for the pitman arm. I am hitting it with a 1/2" high torque Milwaukee impact...and nothing. Oh well, let's see if some PB Blaster and a days time does it. After that, I'm going for the blowtorch since we it's gonna be rebuilt anyway...
You are wasting your time with PB blaster, it is the torque that is your problem. 1/2" breaker bar 2' pipe extension and lots of grunt. I was afraid to use the torch and set the coach on fire as I had already took off the hyd. lines. Better if you have it is 3/4" to 1/2' adaptor and 3/4 breaker bar with cheater pipe. Then the torque to push the pitman arm off is even more.
I tried it first with a fully charged, but several year old 4AH battery, but it wouldn't budge. I had recently bought a set of two new 5AH batteries and that did the trick, though even that wasn't instantaneous. Apparently, it isn't just how long they last that declines with age (just talking about batteries here... no really ;) ), but also theIr ability to deliver maximum current. Of course, bending the locking tabs out of the recesses of the pitman arm retainer is necessary first.
Don
Now is the time to purchase that 3/4" breaker bar and appropriate 3/4" socket. Using tools that don't flex when you pull on them makes all the difference in the world.
Fitting makeup length was an issue for me when I replaced my box last year. I only had a couple of inches to work with. (Story of my life...) I was able to use a large hex wrench and a 1.25" ID piece of pipe about 20" long to get the job done. I also found that using a ball ping hammer to rap the pitman arm while under pressure helped relieve the stress.
Make sure you Bend the resting ear out of the way before trying to removing the pitman arm nut.
I would also highly recommend placing a dab of heavy duty bearing grease on the head of the nut to reduce the friction against the puller.
I used Molly Coat to help reduce friction. Any graphite type grease would work also.
I am getting into this conversation 3 years later but have questions. My steering box has a very very slight drip. Guessing maybe a drip every 10 minutes...just a guess as I have not timed it to be sure. If what I am reading is correct, this just requires a new seal which is what Don did for his. Am I correct? If this is the case, is there really a requirement to get a red head redo on my 24 year coach or is there something I am missing in this conversation. Being in Canada, and not able to do a replacement myself, I would assume this will be a 1500US touch at least to have done, by the time parts are ordered, received and installed
Comments, and expertise as always, are welcome!
It depends on which side of the box is leaking. Drivers side not too hard to put in a seal. Passenger side much more work. See Scott's post on not removing the box. If you have considerable play then have it rebuilt to take out the slack.
I literally just finished this morning replacing my M100 Sheppard box on my 2001 U320..... I have taken good pics and notes for those wanting/thinking about a DIY for this task. I plan on posting it this week. I too first bought a seal kit(for sale as well) but I decided to do a replacement instead.
Peter, at 24 years old, time is your enemy.
I did mine twice lol... Sent my original to Redhead and I wasnt happy with it as it had some kind of lump in it.. It was a long time sitting and didnt call them until about a month after warranty.. They said it was chargeable.. I ordered another one that was adjustable someone had mentioned on the forum and had it rebuilt.. Awesome... Opened up the original one redhead did and it had a piece of old gasket smashed in it... I didnt complain to them but I did have them rebuild the new one I bought.. They did good the second round but wasnt happy the first time at all..
Send my Gladiator steering box in to them also.. its a lot better too.. New truck and didnt drive well at all.. SLoppy steering.
If I chose to add the Lucas seal stuff listed on the forum, would I add it directly to the large black tank in left side of engine compartment or to another area. ??
That's where you would put it. I tried that stuff for my leaking fan motors and it didn't help so
I changed the seals and it's not leaking any more.
Seal magic stop just gets your money and puts chemicals into the oil system that will come back to Haunt you with everything leaking. IMO
Look at the pictures in my post and you'll see that the seals are just completely destroyed and hanging on by a thread. Some will recommend only changing the one but eventually you're gonna be back in there changing the other one. IMO I did not replace the steering input seal and it has been okay since. Doing inframe is a challenge. Removing gear box is a challenge. Nothing is small or light.
Steering gearbox leak (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=43263.0)
Others and I have done this but IMO some will not be as fortunate.
Scott
Peter, if you do end up having the box replaced, just an FYI, I had mine replace at NMS in Texas, and they charged 6 hours of labor to do the job. I supplied them with my own Red Head Unit.
I understand your in Canada, but just wanted to give you an idea of the labor hours involved if you do find someone to do the work for you.
Well guys and gals, as I stated previously I replaced my steering box. It is not difficult, but it's not easy either. Basically if you ain't spry, don't try!
ALSO, on a really important note: IF you have an Independent Front Suspension (IFS) it is a special steering box. After replacing the new one and going out to test drive..... turning the steering wheel to the left, turned my wheels to the right! Yes you read that correctly the first time..... so now to send off my original box, R&R the new one and hopefully not wait too long for its return.
More to follow
James Bock
2001 36ft U320 IFS Build 5901
You might find a customer here for the new one that fits all but IFS
Reach out to
@Zach , he may be on the hunt for one
I actually have my old one sitting is storage.
Let me know.. Just need to track it down.
Nevada, is the steering box off a IFC? If so I'd be interested. Here's the pics of the model number for the IFC steering box.
Mine is straight axle..