While the fridge is empty, I keep it running on shore power. This morning I opened it and noticed a faint ammonia odor inside. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Mike
Probably means it's time to replace the refrigerator!
It sounds like a leak- remove the outside cover and check for the yellowish powder on coils, etc. If it is, shut the refrigerator down and explore options for replacing either the cooling unit or the whole refrigerator. What option you choose should be determined by how you like to use your coach, how much, cost, etc.. Lots of discussions on the forums- use your search button.
Good luck......................... ^.^d
Refrigerator is toast. Turn it off leave it off and do not run it on propane unless you want to collect the motorhome's insurance value.
Roland
Correct. Running it how will likely CAUSE A FIRE.
Time to decide: residential, new absorption refrigerator or new/rebuilt cooling unit in old one. No "one answer is correct for everyone"-- depends on how you use your coach as well as budget.
We dry camp most of the time and love our Norcold propane fridge. If you stay at campgrounds with juice, you may favor residential fridges.
If installing a absorption unit and while the fridge is out, install backerboard in the compartment so you don't have to worry about your coach burning up.
Pierce
Thanks for the info. Fridge is turned off and am researching options.
Mike
Only you can determine what's best for your needs, but we have been extremely glad we switched to our Samsung RF18 refrigerator. The improved cooling and storage capacity are real blessings!
Last time I had a fridge re-built it LASTED A YEAR! :facepalm:
Our new Amish cooling unit did a little better: It lasted almost five years. Happy to switch to our Samsung!
As our coach is build 5132 I am watching this thread closely.
I assume you and I both have a Dometic rm 7832 32" wide side by side refer.
I was not a home refer fan.
That being said we remodeled our sticks and bricks homes kitchen and part of the work was new appliances.
We installed a 4 door Samsung counter depth refer.
I can see why a lot of owners here like their Samsung refer. The separate compressors for the two side are variable speed trick technology and the temp never varies from zero in the freezer and 37 in the refer.
Produce lasts longer at 70% humidity like commercial users use.
As we were running the under coach Dometic chest refer always while out on the road the actual power use difference to run a rf-18 might be 75 amp hours a day and leave the chest refer off unless really needed.
Fairly easy to add more solar on roof to replace the used up amp hours.
We purchased a portable inverter/li-ion power generator with a 50 amp hour internal capacity and added two 100 watt portable 18% efficiency solar panels to recharge it. They normally put out around 6 amps of 12 volt into their unit each so if I wanted to take the time to set up this system it could add the added amp hours back into the system this residential refer should consume.
The little power generator has a 20 amp 13.24 volt front panel output built in. Solar input in the units back and output from its batteries and the solar recharge coming in can augment our 14 amp existing solar setup temporarily.
IF the Samsung did not do such a noticeably better job of keeping things cold I would not have considered this change out as our Dometic works fine.
We are continuing our slow prepper setup and other than its out of the cabinet ugliness I would be tempted to keep the removed Dometic around as it still works. A propane tank and a pressure regulator and 12 volt would allow it to run free standing or in a cabinet of some kind.
The lord help us in shakey town(LA) if we actually needed this setup. Hopefully not.
The other choice was a jc refrigeration replacement coil setup. The local trailer supply guy does them regularly with good results. Apparently much increased cooling power.
As a prepper the no noise low power consumption absorption refer is a good choice.
If you have enough batteries and solar to offset the 125 amp hours average use per day the choices are easier.
The 7832 is fairly wimpy for cooling food. The jc seems to have added quite a bit of additional cooling.
The taller Samsung has much larger capacity.
When we first purchased our U320 the Dometic refrigerator seemed to be cooling well. After it later failed I had JC Refrigeration install one of their units. Their "Amish Cooling Unit" didn't seem to cool any better than had the previous unit beforeit failed. Our Samsung provides far better cooling. The RF18 fits width and depth perfectly, with the cabinet below needing to be removed for height. As I have stated before we would never want to back to an absorption refrigerator.
If you like your refrigerator, go with a new cooling unit.
Why is the Samsung RF18 the model of choice for replacement?
Mike
It is a counter-depth model and fits the width and depth of our existing opening perfectly. Had to remove the cabinent below and lower the shelf it sits on. It seems to be very energy efficient.
Best thing we did to our coach was replace the Dometic with the Samsung RF18! A stop over at Chris Lang's home and his most gracious expertise and help, we removed the Dometic through the front door and brought the new Samsung through the same way. Filled in one side with a modified 2x6 and walnut trim and it looks like it is built in. Some have added a small storage on the side with doors. Either way, very happy!
I installed Samsung RF20HFENBSR which is 2 inches deeper, with same width dimensions, easily fit thru window, with refrigerator doors removed.
2 cu ft more or 2 inches deeper may not seem like alot, however it is. No regrets, installed one year ago. My wife tells everyone this is her favorite upgrade.
Since refrigerator protrudes two inches from original cabinet, placed 2 inch X one inch walnut bull nose trim around edge, looks like refrigerator was installed when rv was new.
Each couple's preferences are different, but we are thankful we didn't go with the deeper model. The additional intrusion into the hallway area in front of the refrigerator (which is where we access the large pantry) would make it less convenient for us. The 18 cu ft of space is about twice what we had before, and the pull-out freezer drawer is far more useful than was the tall, narrow freezer in the Dometic.
Not to be a negative Nancy, but reviews for Samsung service and this model rf18 are all over the map. Yes my dometic 3807 is chugging along carefully.
I've read about this before, but I don't recall any bad experiences about any Samsung refrigerators in motorhome use. I believe at least a few members here have had their units in service 24/7 for several years. Definitely would like to see input from others here.
9 years, no issues.
Tim Fiedler
Gen-Pro.biz
630 240-9139
Our Samsung RF18 was installed at FOT on Sept 25, 2014 and has been running 24/7 since that date. We never turn it off. It is either powered by shore power or by our Magnum MS2812 - depending on where the coach is parked. It has never skipped a beat.
Our Days Spent in Remodel Shop (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=22542.msg172507#msg172507)
If you do decide to remove and replace the old unit, and you get the great idea to cut the coils off of the back side with a grinder to make the removal easier/possible by yourself, I urge you to rethink your strategy. Instant explosion, flash fire and ammonia ejects into the face & lungs. Don't ask me how I know. To quote Forest Gump "That's all I got to say about that."
Larry
I have been interested in this ref at home depot. Have not looked at availability yet, but its a nice size. Maybe someone would try it out? :))
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unique-13-cu-ft-370-l-Solar-DC-Top-Freezer-Refrigerator-Danfoss-Secop-Compressor-in-Black-UGP-370L-B/306705232
Interesting...however...
The price is no bargain - $1700 versus $1100 for the Samsung RF18 (17.5 cu. ft.)
Roger did a in-depth analysis of his residential (Samsung) fridge
power consumption. Reading through the thread linked below will offer some comparison between this DC fridge and the Samsung. I see very little
real advantage (in average energy usage) to this particular DC powered fridge,
except for the fact that you don't need a inverter running to power it when dry camping. (Installing a small, efficient dedicated inverter to power a residential fridge will minimize this factor)
Residential fridge energy use (split from Yacht Fridge VS Residential Fridge) (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=28280)
https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/bc/bcac5438-a4d4-48e1-924a-abd210dfbc12.pdf
Call me a lazy sot (its true) but the manual defrosting routine alone (see Owner's Manual link below) would be enough to put me off this unit:
"DEFROSTING THE UNIT The fridge compartment will become progressively covered with frost. When 5mm of frost forms in the freezer, this should be removed with the supplied plastic scraper. This should be removed periodically with a plastic scraper. However, when the ice becomes very thick on the interior walls, complete defrosting should be carried out. Perform this operation when the appliance is empty and disconnected from the power supply."
https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/b9/b9d2dcf8-9fb0-45b0-98ea-b96fa35fbd83.pdf
When we got rid of the old Dometic in our '02. I chose the French Door Samsung as the replacement. I found a nicely priced one in Lufkin and had it delivered to FOT until we could get there. David Flanagan was kind enough to store it for us. It was a complete game-changer for us (I should say ME) and we were living in the coach full time. No more defrosting, shifting stuff to avoid warm spots and throwing away frozen lettuce. No more little internal fans. Lord lord lord ... I HATED that nasty Dometic fridge!! We only boondocked for a week or 2 at a time, and when we were, the Samsung was kept nicely at temp by our 450 watts of solar and a boost from the generator when needed. We had already upgraded our inverter when we added the solar, so that was not an issue. If you do not want to go "whole hog" with a full sized fridge, you can always do a smaller residential one and perhaps add some storage space. Dave Katski and Nancy Elkins added a 10cu residential in their 36' and are very happy. If you are not full time, a smaller fridge may be all you need!
The refrig mentioned by Kathy G uses 587 watts per day at 24 volt so more amps at 12v. Our Samsung 18 cu ft model uses about 1550 watts per day with almost 50% more capacity. The JC refrigeration conversion kits (12v or 120v) for existing LP gas refrigerators use around 1400 watts per day based on actual measurements in use. And they cost more than a residential refrigerator. One of the early 120v conversions has already failed. No known cause.
The right choice for each of us whether it is a refrigerator, remodel, alternator, electrical equipment, batteries or anything else, is what fits your needs and expectations, use and pocketbook. There are many options. There are many opinions too.
Edited ... 587 watts is the same at 12 or 24 volts. I would like to see this or any other danfoss compressor driven refrigerator actual power use measurements. This seems low to me, only 24 watts per hour. The 3.8 cu ft Dometic CR-1110 Danfoss compressor refrigerator specs say it uses 45 watts per hour or 1080 watts per day. Something is fishy.
Roger
I'm not understanding why the power comsumption would be twice as much on a 12V unit compared to a 24V unit. Amperage would be twice but watts should be the same or close to the same.
Correct. For the same amount of energy: Amps on 12 VDC= 2X that on 24 VDC. Watts the same.
Bob,
I think the reason some are using a smaller inverter to run their fridge, and possibly entertainment center, is to take advantage of the lower idle current a smaller inverter consumes vs. a large main inverter: Only run the main inverter when it's needed. A large inverter under a light load is relatively inefficient, mainly due to the idle current being a large percentage of the overall load. Keep in-mind that the advertised efficiency of any inverter is the peak efficiency, and only achieved at a certain load (85% +/- )? Below peak, idle current is the larger loss. Above peak, thermal losses come more into play. So, use an inverter sized to be near that sweet spot when the fridge is running... maybe a little below the sweet spot when also running the TV, ETC, so long as said small inverter can handle the fridge start current. Modern inverter fridge compressors have a pretty low start current.
Greg
The previous owner of our U320 did a lot of boondocking in the West and installed 540 Watts of solar and a small (300 Watt I believe) inverter to power their TV and computer uses. They also installed a 2800 Watt Magnum inverter/charger with wired remote to handle typical inverter/charger functions. I haven't made detailed power measirements but to me it makes sense to use a small inverter if one is using small power-requirement devices and a large inverter if one is using large power-requirement devices.
The WHOLE equation should be based on both total capacity AND idle/stand-by power consumption.
I am always reluctant to disagree with Carol, but this time I must: We are not full-timers but at certain times of the year we are very serious part-timers. After having our Samsung RF18 for about a year I wouldn't want to try to convice my wife that she didn't "need" it and could get by with a smaller fridge!!
Just found an interesting utube video concerning power requirements for refrigerators.
RV Solar Power Basics - Why Residential Refrigerators Suck - Josh's Garage -... (https://youtu.be/bPy9bPLa9x0)
Mike
Mike,
IF, repeat IF one mostly boondocks, Josh's point is valid (as is his math).
So, as has been mentioned many times, there is no BEST FOR EVERYONE refrigerator choice.
Absolutely correct. Note that people who plan to boondock extensively with residential refrigerators typically add significant solar capacity as well as additional battery capacity. For us, and our types of usage, the benefits of the residential refrigerator outweigh any downsides.
In order to figure the power balance out you need to have a pretty good handle on how much power you use in a day and how that varies from season to season, how much power storage capacity (batteries) you have and how you are going to get that power. There is no magic formula for this, each of us uses our coaches in our own way and while solutions are similar, details vary.
Good battery monitors will help you understand power use from the batteries. With an LP refrigerator this is going to be somewhere in the 1500-2000 watts per day. With a residential refrigerator this will be closer to 2800-3500 watts per day. In the winter all of these numbers go up, you use more lighting and more heat. In the summer maybe a bit lower. There are many inexpensive devices out there to help measure power use both AC and DC.
You are going to get power from a landline, your generator or solar. If you want AC then a landline or generator is pretty much required. Solar will generate power that you can use or store. 1000 watts of solar will add about 2000-2500 watts per day on average over the year. In the middle of the summer in good sun maybe twice that or more. In the middle of the winter with low sun angles and more clouds maybe 1/2 of that or less.
Battery capacity changes with the age of your batteries and how well they have been maintained. If all of your power is coming from your batteries then 3000 watts used per day at 12.5 volts is 240 amp hours per day. If you start at 100% state of charge and have 3 8Ds with at total capacity of 750 amp hrs then you will use about 1/3 of your capacity. In the winter batteries are less efficient, you are using more power, it is dark for 14-16 hours, it is colder. You can easily use up 50% of your battery capacity at which time you need to recharge. Cycling your batteries to that state of charge (SOC) significantly reduces battery life. At 25% discharge cycles you batteries will last twice as long or more.
So in the middle of winter say you use 3250 watts in a day or 260 amp hrs at 12.5 volts average. If you want to not go below 25% SOC then you need closer to 1100 amp hr capacity assuming some efficiency loss. To do that you would probably want to go to 4 8D batteries. With Lithium batteries you could get by with 4 100 amp hr batteries. These can discharge much more, will charge faster and 4 will weigh less than a single 8D battery. There are 6 volt battery solutions for this as well that will fit in the space of 2 8Ds.
Even if you are careful with power use in the winter your 1000 watts of solar panels will be hard pressed to keep up at this power use level. A few days yes, most no. In the summer you will do much better. With lead based batteries you really want to recharge fully to 100% SOC every discharge cycle. Not doing so slowly degrades their capacity. Lithium batteries are not limited by this. They are like a tank of water. Add as much as you can, use it up. Repeat. If you add less than you use eventually you run out.
If you are plugged in most of the time then this is pretty easy. If you are an overnighter at a Walmart for example, and don't want to run your generator then all you need is sufficient battery capacity to get through the night. If you want to spend time off the grid where generator use is OK then use your generator or use sufficient solar or both and have enough battery capacity. If you want to be off the grid and use no generator or as little as possible then you need enough solar for an average day and battery capacity to get through the night.
It is a balancing act, different for each of us. But one all of us can do in our own way.
The essentials of life with a residential refrigerator can be stated rather simply:
If one plans to do extended dry camping then a residential refrigerator probably isn't a good idea; go with an absorption refrigerator. If one wants to enjoy the advantages of a residential refrigerator and still do dry camping then one should install as much solar capacity as one can fit on the roof and install at least three new 8 d batteries. Lithium batteries are an up-and-coming technology with potentially several advantages but the technology is not yet mature. One should install a good energy management battery monitor and make sure to never use more than 50% of the battery-bank capacity before recharging. It's even better for best battery life to not use more than 25% of the battery-bank capacity. Installing LED lighting and minimizing other battery drains is clearly an excellent idea. One way to do that is to have a dedicated small inverter for the refrigerator (and possibly a few other low-current devices such as cell phone chargers or other essential electronics) and reserve us of the large inverter for only those time one need to power a high-current device such as a microwave oven.
OK, let's get back on-topic-- enough of the "my inverter/charger is better than yours".
The discussion is about alternatives to replacing an absorption refrigerator with defective cooling unit.
Thanks.
Brett/moderator
[deleting the inverter hijack discussion momentarily]
OK. My apologies to those who put thoughtful responses in to the intentional hijack that happens every time someone types the word "inverter". Normally I would split discussion out, but since this is a "beating a dead horse" hijack that happens repeatedly and with increasing frequency, it has been deleted.