Friday before leaving for the weekend i started the generator to run the air conditioners to cool the coach down before we left. After running for about an hour I heard the generator sounding like it was laboring and I went out to check it and saw a lot of smoke coming from the exhaust, it ran a bit longer and died, I turned things off restarted the generator and it ran somewhat OK until I put a load on it then it started smoking again and died. No lights were on on the panel. We went ahead and left without the Ginny running. Before we left the RV resort I tried to start it just to see if maybe it fixed itself and when it started it immediately began smoking kind of a brown colored smoke, coughed and then died. Both fuel filters on the generator have recently been changed and I have about an hour or less run time on them. I know it's possible that the filters could've picked up some trash and plug even though they are new and I plan to change them tomorrow but if that does not fix the problem what would my next step be to check. Could the fuel pump possibly be bad and was going out, running OK until I put a load on it and then would not supply the diesel the generator needed and is just gone downhill since then to where it won't run at all now. I know smoking diesel is typically either lack of fuel or lack of air. Thursday before all this started I change the air filter And it ran fine after that. I checked air filter because that was fairly easy to do at the RV park and it all looked OK so I don't think air in is the issue. Any ideas or suggestions as usual are greatly appreciated from this great place. It is a Power Tech 10kw generator in a 2000 U320.
Thanks
Keith
Before anything! You should not smell raw diesel at generator or at any diesel engine. Smelling raw diesel at a Diesel engine is good sign of a diesel fuel leak. When you remove fuel filters, drain into clean dry glass, looking at what comes out. raw diesel as we know smells like good diesel. Use your senses, sight and smell. Looking for water, trash, even rust. If that's OK. As they are recent, could put back on. I like to fill with fresh fuel when placing on if possible.
Now check fuel hoses, clamps, material,condition. Hoses should not be stiff, painted, cracking. If length allows. Trim off 1/2 to 1". Put back on, watching clamping tightening. Check all hose points of connection.
On Air Filter, remove make sure there is not foreign objects in intake, housing. That holder and hoses are tight, clean etc. May want to really look down hose, our pests like dark places
Visual inspection of outside of generator. looking for any fluid, loose parts. can even run hands over gently but firmly checking lines, hoses. Radiator do a finger dip, try to get fluid. if not radiator fluid look. (green or red). If it looks milkshake, or has oil on cap base. this is a bad sign. Shows signs of oil into fluid if milkshake. Check belt tightness, quality of belt, fan that its tight.
Diesels should be clean, dry, leak free. So wipe down any mess, I like "Purple stuff" cleaner brand. of course blue paper towels for cleaning.
These recommendations are just helpful hints that might lead to finding something needing looking into.
Brown smoke can mean air restriction. if you have a spare air filter try it out.
Black smoke unburned fuel. too much fuel for rpm.
White condensation in exhast system
Ok, when I got home from work I went out to investigate and check things out. Ginny started with a small amount of gray smoke, running ok. Started the ac's for a load and exited the coach for a look see. Opened the motor compartment door letting it run. After 5 minutes or so A LOT of black smoke started coming out of the motor compartment from what looked like from the generator side.. I thought it was on fire... I immediately shut it down using the outside toggle and ran to get my tools to take the bolts out of the cover over the generator ( why did the use bolts and so many?). Nothing looked burnt but there was some fallen down insulation on the motor side. I removed the new air filter and restarted the motor. No black smoke after the remaining smoke in the compartment cleared. Gray smoke out the pipe but it cleared quickly..I slid the filter back in and still no problems. Ran it under load for over a hour and it ran fine. The only thing I noticed was the gasket on the new wix air filter was coming apart. I noticed last week when I put it in that the gasket was different than the Fleetguard I took out. Below is a pic of the old and new filter... the not that old Fleetguard went back in and it is running fine.. seeing the condition of this gasket after 4 days makes me question the quality of wix filters!!! The filter was tight and wasn't rattling around, put it in Thursday, took it out Saturday to make sure it was clear, and took it out today. The only thing I Did notice was some of the insulation on the wall between the 2 compartments had fallen down on the motor, it was really hot when I removed it..
Keith
Wix does make top quality filters. But the gasket/mating surface is VERY different from the other filter. Wonder if it is the correct filter.
WOW! Im with Brett on this one. Go to wix.com and cross your old filter and see if it comes up as the wix part number you have. If it does, I swear Ill never buy another wix filter for my coach ever again.
Actually, if it does cross to the Wix filter you have, I would shoot an e-mail with picture of both filters to both generator maker and to Wix.
I will cross reference it tomorrow, I had the old Fleetguard filter with its number on it with me at Napa, it's what they crossed it with. I saw it was different but figured it would serve the purpose
Keith
Lots of screws on the cover is likely to reduce the chance of annoying rattles. Yeah, there is a lot of em.
I recently replaced our air filter with a new NAPA (Wix), and noted no issues with the gasket. It looked like the one I removed, sans oil, insulation, and dirt.
The moment you find loose insulation inside the genny cabinet, it's natures way of telling you it's shot. Whatever of it is still remaining will be falling off (and into critical places) shortly. Do yourself a big favor and pull as much of it out as you can. When I did the PDI on ours, there was only a few small pieces of insulation loose in the bottom tray. 10 hours of run time later, the entire left side collapsed, blocking 90%+ of the generator end air intake. Not good! I pulled out all insulation I could get to without complete disassembly, vacuumed the compartment thoroughly, blew compressed air through the generator end until it blew clean, and vacuumed again. A dirty job but only took 20 minutes, once the myriad of screws were removed. ;)
Greg
The previous owner had most of the deteriorated sound insulation removed from our generator case. However, the foil-covered insulating mat that is under the generator was still in place. From what I could see, all it did was trap water and encourage rust on the interior of the generator case. So I removed it. The stuff in my coach had a cork base (see pic) which makes it relatively easy to remove. There are several large holes under the generator which allows one to pull it out from that area. I found that a hacksaw blade worked well to break any glued spots loose. After I got it out, I flushed the area under the generator with soap and hot water. Once it is thoroughly dry, I will treat it with Black Star or some other rust converter.
The insulation in ours appeared to be 4 layers: low density foam, a higher density rubber like material, another layer of foam, topped with some mesh reinforced Mylar. The rubber and Mylar part was in pretty good shape. Had the foam not disintegrated, it would likely still be serviceable. Inside our nose cap, and around the stairwell, appears to be the same material, with the same issue. That stuff makes quite the mess when it gives up.
Well I crossed it on the wix site and went to Napa, the filter I got was correct.. the store mgr couldn't explain why the gasket was different other than different manufacturers might use different gaskets. Also he said the gasket might have cut itself if it folded over wrong and was tighten to much. 1) I had no control over the gasket because it slides into the housing and you can't see the gasket when installed. 2) Also there was a note on the box that said to be sure to use their washer and wingnut which I did and to be sure that it was tight which I did. He offered to replace it but I opted to just get my money back and I'll get either a factory one or another Fleetguard like the old one. I will not be buying another wix, probably pass on their other filters too.....
Keith
Well I spoke to soon... ran the Ginny tonite just to make sure everything was still running right, after about 10 mins stArted getting brown smok out the exhaust pipe then heavy black smoke started billowing out of the motor compartment, I quickly shut it down... restarted it and ran for 30 minutes with no issues..... anybody got anything ???
Hi Keith,
How many hours on genset? Wondering if something up with the gen itself and not so much the engine. Relationship between load with AC on or not? Maybe turn off the two breakers on gen to see if it will run smoothly, no smoke etc.. Turning them off means no load on the gen at all. Repair shop did that with mine recently. Apologies if my questions show my ignorance. I'm new to gen issues, have some gen problems now myself. Will be watching this thread.
You've probably already checked but, is any insulation falling on the exhaust manifold or pipe inside the cabinet?
After staring at you photos I think the source of the black smoke is in the generator compartment. The new filter appears to be heavily sooted on the exterior. The interior of the filter appears clean.
Make sure that the black smoke is not coming from the generator end and thoroughly clean and remove loose insulation from the compartment.
yep
the new filter looked as dirty as the old one on the outside, must be pulling in a lot of soot / smoke from the generator box.
I too am still having generator issues. I have changed fuel filters, burped the cooling system, etc.... Last time I ran it was for 90 minutes under load, no issues. This past Sunday, during the heat wave, we were taking our grandsons up to the other grandparents place in Goshen , Indiana for a visit in the motorhome. Car seats strapped in, etc, I shut off park power and started generator which promptly died after a minute or so. I reset outside and started it again, died. Took the car seats out and put them in Subaru so Karen could drive them up with air conditioning. Not me, I drove the coach in over 100 heat index, not sure but maybe lost some weight. lol
I have scheduled appointment with the Powertech Service Dealer in Shipshewanna Friday morning- hopefully they can figure out what is going on. Will keep you advised as to what they find and how it is resolved. ^.^d
As I have no life. I have been reading, downloading, expanding. Every Generator topic in the vast data base we have here. Things I have learned.
1. Make sure you replace the little metal fuel filter. Napa part # 3046. It is metal, gold if not painted, has tubes on each end, one end has nut shape to allow install/removal. Normally located front center bottom, and on left side of fuel pump. Simple detach fuel lines, use proper size wrench to unscrew, install is reverse. Note. Cap fuel line while screwing in. Use a pen cap, will normally work.
2. It seems you can line up 10 Fts and each generator will have different install, features, etc. Don't panic. Its normal.
3. At least 2 VR are used. Plug and play (pic). Then the big one with wire movement issue. READ INSTRUCTIONS. DUH!
4. Fuel lines 3/8 inch. Make sure you use diesel compatible line. When in doubt, if you have the length on current line. Cut off 1", reattach. This "may" remove possible degraded line at last point.
Fuel lines from tank. Many have had to replace these to fix issue of. Strange running, rpm up/down, then load drop.
There is a very good write up on how to best do the replacement. By Grover D. Look at it.
5. Voltage shooting up (160 say). Is a good indication of pending VR failure.
On this issue.
1. Look on (bad replacement for its actual part number), box may say right filter, but can contain wrong filter!
2. Possibility of filter gasket being down stream from filter, only one place to go. Into engine. Or melt and smoke. Trash into head unit of generator. Blow it out. Insulation would smoke vice burn. Flame retardant.
3. Use your nose. Electrical burning smells different then oil, rubber, etc.
2 picture of plug play VR.
TexHub has is right. Lots of different features unique to every generator.
If you have an electric fuel pump that looks like this one, it's easy to just put a wrench on the bottom and check the filter. Either clean or replace. This one is the deal of the century as they are normally at least $75-$85 or more. They were originally Bendix then Facet with others also making them. They are very common and even found on many small aircraft (as the aux pump). Some generators have the small square electric pumps. OK but not quite as reliable as these: 27149-2093 149-1828 ONAN FUEL PUMP 12 VOLT | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/27149-2093-149-1828-ONAN-FUEL-PUMP-12-VOLT/192627633564?hash=item2cd9806d9c:g:kY4AAOSw08Fc3uJG:sc:USPSPriorityFlatRateBox!95949!US!-1)
Check pressure before ordering. This one is just about right. Compatible with gasoline and diesel.
Pierce
Mine was a loose cooling fan belt. Under a cover
Had an opportunity to do some troubleshooting last nite. Checked the air hose from the filter to the intake, it was clear and not obstructed and pulling a good air flow thru the filter housing when I put the hose back on. While running the motor with the intake hose off I noticed a strong exhaust smell in housing and a lot of heat. Went to the side of the coach near the exhaust pipe and very little exhaust press at the pipe. I pulled the generator out and disassembled some of the housing to get to the exhaust manifold and exhaust line. I found that the bolts that bolt the flex hose to the exhaust manifold were broken and the exhaust heat was blowing out into the enclosure explaining the heat, exhaust smell, and probably why there was soot on the outside of the filter. Now to figure out if I want to attempt the repair or have it done. We are going to New Mexico in a month and I'm not going to have many days off so I'll probably get it fixed.
Also a question to anyone that has a power tech 10 kw Ginny like the one pictured below, there is a emergency light panel (6 or so led lights for various shutdowns) on the Ginny near the breaker and on off switches are, do any of these light up under normal circumstances? The other day when this all started it was hot in the enclosure to the point the generator shut down and was burping water into the overflow tank but no lights were on, makes me wonder if they are working.
Keith
Pic
Mine has no lights under operation. Did have an overheat shut down and a red light was on showing why it shut down.. breaker was off at the very top. Had never noticed that reset.. pushed it in and all was good
Keith,
In my 10kw generator it uses the Donaldson Air Cleaner Canister FW G052510 with air filter P181050. When you cross reference in WIX you get 42276. Attached is my canister and the WIX filter image and the link to their site.
John M.
http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/InterchangeMultiSearch.aspx?q=P181050&o=me
So Napa part #3046, is oReilly #33046, cost is $3.50. I replaced mine on 8K today. Had rust, water, for the visual eye to see. Ran Gen. Ran well, but will have to run with load and time to see how it goes. Did find that the professional's, when putting on new hose, had it too long causing a crimp or less then full flow in fuel line. M
While the fuel lines from the tank to the generator are ⅜" the short pigtails from where they terminate, the short rubber lines that hook up to that small round filter screwed right onto the pump are 5/16", at least on our 99' U270. It is pretty obvious when that line leaks!
Don
Keith, we have the same gen and I have never so far seen any lights come on. In fact, yesterday in the blazing heat, when we arrived at our destination, I fired up the gen, it ran for about 3 minutes and shut down and restarted in about 30 seconds. Then it ran for about 10 minutes and shut down again and restarted itself again. Has ran fine since and no lights showing any issues. Another thing I noticed on this year coach, when you push the start switch, you don't hear a sound, but let go of the switch and gen fires up. On or '98, we could hear it turning over and once it started, let go of the switch. Not sure if this is normal on this one or not. Does your gen do this? Oh, it ran all night last night with no issues and fired up today when we needed it again, but like I stated, no sound, just let go of the switch and in a few seconds, it fires up. Strange or is this normal?
That is normal juicesqueezer
Yes that is what mine does too. If you have the motor door off I can hear a click and a little hum just before it starts
Thank you Ron and Keith! I know that on my '98, you heard the engine cranking. Good to hear that what I experienced is normal. I have over 3k hours on this generator and plan on adding more as we go!
I had a problem with mine running about 1/2 hour then shutting down. Checked oil level and it was a pint over filled. Drained a pint out ran forever without shutting off. Bear in mind mine is a propane generator, don't know if this has any bearing on y'alls problems.
Ours has 3232 hours on it..making plans to pull the manifold to fix it
If the end bearing has not been changed would strongly consider it,on my 8K it was dry at 1450 hours.
I took my coach into Mr Wrench, a Powertech service dealer in Shipshewana, Indiana Friday. Explained my issue of it starting, then cutting off and it took 2 times to start it but then it ran fine the whole time I was there. They tested oil pressure sensor, temperature sensor, etc, the only thing they found was a ground wire not attached in back of the motor ( might have come loose from vibrations).
They cleaned my radiator ( got rid of a lot of Arizona dust), etc and ran it with full load for an hour. Nice folks, charged me for an hour labor ($85.00) and suggested I run my generator while in the area and come back if I have any problems.
Today after my grandsons went home, I disconnected from electric and fired it up. Again it died, but I went outside , reset, started again and died, Tried it a third time, it fired up, ran smooth, I put full load on it ( both air conditioners) and ran it for over 5.5 hours. Turned off the air conditioners , let it cool down a little and shut it off. Will run it again tomorrow and see how it does.
Strange how everything checked out fine, yet it takes 2 or 3 times starting to keep it running. We shall see...................... ^.^d
Glow plug issues might explain starting, but I am leaning towards fuel delivery. Intermittent Any fault indicators on the shutdowns?
no fault lights on shut downs except when they tested things at the shop and it did show a code then. The fuel pump and flow was tested also, and I recently changed both fuel filters. If it is glow plugs would it start at all? Strange issue for sure............
Do you have original fuel lines?
fuel lines replaced in 2015
By Bernd??
Working on diesels in my travels. You are showing signs of air in your closed loop fuel system and or pressure leak down. So how to fix this issue. Fuel lines, filters, pump all at top performance. Inserting a clear fuel filter into fresh fuel side might show any air in system. Placing it between fuel pump and final filter. draining both fuel filters into clean, dry, glass. As the 3046 is low cost, Just replace it. keep as emergency spare. If you were leaking at injector, should see smoke at start. rough idle. Even though you have tested pump, thats the heart of fuel system. its electric, so its wires could be damaged inside wire runs, bad connections, sand, clean, reattach, internal seals could be damaged. I am awaiting a new fuel pump for my spares. "Thats what I would change out". "In this troubleshooting". Glow plugs, test them. "Danger" Glow plugs reach extreme temputure, never handle a wired plug. Our engines stop running because fuel stops flowing. So if the power to fuel pump is being disrpted, that would cause this issue. pull a fuel sample from the return side of fuel system observe fuel flow from the return side.
Diesel engine - air, fuel, compression.
I agree about the potential fuel issues but I don't understand why it would run almost 6 hours with full load on it if it were leaking air or fuel. I just fueled up Friday but the last time I got fuel was the beginning of May, yet my Cummins runs fine all the time. I will check fuel lines, connections, etc. At least it is running now- thanks for the ideas!! ^.^d
I now have manual on engine. I will start studying it. With emphasis on how we actually shut down our engines. The steps that happen when we touch monetary switch on dash. Or switch the switch on remote. Also maybe I can trace fuel path.
I have not seen a 3046 style filter on mine, 1 filter is on the side of the motor, a screw on and there is another screw on under the coach kinda behind the step.. should I have a 3046 style too???
Keith,
Ours, which should be the same as yours, uses a Racor R12T (or NAPA 3583) as the primary filter, and a NAPA 3390 as the secondary.
Today I started my generator, fired up first time, smooth and easy. Put a full load on it, never missed a lick. Perhaps it was the loose wire? Perhaps I needed to run it longer? Seems to be working fine now............happy happy................... ^.^d
Well 1hr 9 min, mine had an rpm shift. shut off ac. noted as i passed that voltage was changing. took temp of radiator 217. restarted. ran as if on 2 cyl. shut off. restarted 30 min later, ran smooth. so I am now looking at status of cooling system. so it goes