Good morning. We finally made it to Camp Gulf in Destin FL yesterday. After spending the last few weeks fixing issues and replacing the power steering gear box (thanks a lot to Mike Rash!!!!!!) we now have a new issue. The front AC has always (since we have owned it) produced mediocre cool air at best. Compared to the rear AC one might say it isn't really cooling at all.
I am considering driving to the Camping World in Panama to buy a new unit and replace this one. Does anyone have any last minute suggestions or advice? This is day one of our nine day stay here in Camp Gulf. We have to have both ACs!
Thank you so much.
Eric
My main advice would be "DON"T LET CAMPING WORLD TOUCH YOUR COACH!".
Buying things at Camping World is fine. Letting them work on your coach is not.
If you have "washable" air filters in the ceiling A/C cover panels, are they clean?
Often reduced A/C cooling performance is simply due to dirty fins on the evaporator and condenser coils. Cleaning them is not difficult, but it does require climbing up on the roof and removing the A/C outer cover, plus the inside ceiling cover panel. The cleaning solution is available at most RV parts supply houses. The job is kinda messy, and takes two people - one on the roof and one inside to catch the dirty rinse water. If you don't feel comfortable doing this yourself, mobile RV mechanics should be plentiful in that area. Ask where you are staying for recommendations.
If cleaning the coils doesn't solve your problem, a mobile mechanic can also check other things (like refrigerant charge & fan motor amp draw).
Thanks Chuck. I am going to climb up on the roof now to look at the coils.
Up on the roof, after you get the outside cover off the A/C unit, there will be another inner cover (usually sheet metal or styrofoam) that must also be removed to gain access to the evaporator. This will be obvious to you...but just thought I'd mention it.
Agree with Chuck on CW.
Things you can do without getting on the roof;
You might remove the AC filter grill in the ceiling and with a flashlight have a look around up inside the unit. First of all, how does the filter look, and is there a filter? Next look around inside the filter opening and see if everything looks generally clean or dirty, then look way up inside and see if the evaporator fins are blocked with anything. If there is no filter then the fins will probably be clogged which will minimally require vacuuming from the inside, and/or if there is a filter that's dirty and blocking airflow then you need a new, clean filter. Both of the above can be contributing factors to improper cooling.
Well after taking off the outer cover I found what looks like oil coming out of the condenser. I have called a service technician who should be here in two hours or so (1:00 PM CST.). I hope he doesn't just show up and look real quick to tell me it has to be replaced. $130 min for travel and 30 min time.
Any thoughts from the experts? Can this piece be changed and recharged? I still have a little time to self work. The wife and kids are not as willing to put up with the issue as long as I am.
Check with PPL in houston to see if they can send you a new Atwood or get a new one sent to you and install it yourself,you can get
info on the forum as to how to do it,just get some muscle help instead of the $100 per hour tech,maybe you can find an "exchange
student"to throw it up there,if 70 year plus Nitehawk can do it you can.
If you end up looking at replacement of the unit, understand the control needs given you likely have the original Penguin units and ducted air. IIRC, current model units are not plug n' play with the existing thermostat.
Eric,
I'm no expert, but I have read online that although most roof air compressor units are "factory sealed", it is possible for a technician to replace a damaged component and add recharging ports. After that, the system can be evacuated and refrigerant added just like with a residential unit.
It all boils down to economics. Will the cost/hassle of repairing the old unit be more than buying and installing a new unit? Up to you.
A real refrigeration person could likely braze the leak if it's where you can get to it,pull a vacuum recharge the unit. You probably already know that the oil you see is refrigerant oil. Like mentioned above charging ports are no problem to add on to the line. It is an option worth considering and talking to repair "tech" about.
Anyone with minimal DIY skills can install a charging port in the roof air (if that's the problem).
Two videos below, one on how to install a charging port and the other on how to make the roof AC more efficient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzowQ9Lgbhg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWUqQnEw-8Y
He still has to fix the leak,idea,let's wait til his tech has a diagnosis.
Unit is trashed. the coils are banged up and the rest of it is in rough condition. The replacement takes over a week to come in and the vendor will not expedite. I am trying to pickup a unit from RV connections in Panama city. The local technician says they do not normally install products this way but they will make an exception. They say it will only run $175 to install. I am leaving now to make the 1 hour drive to the shop. I will likely buy a new distribution box as well as thermostat or conversion kit.
I am considering going with a 15K btu over the 13.5K unit so we will have a little more capacity when we can only run one unit due to camp sites with only 30 amp hookup.
Too bad you are in crisis mode. A mini split would be a much quieter and possibly more economic. Price is almost the same. Yes there are models that are 120vac. Lots of good utube vids of installs in various types of Rv.
Usually not a great difference in price to go with the larger unit. When we recently replaced our roof units, we went with 15K btu front and rear, and I am not sorry. When it's over 100 degrees outside (and possibly humid), you will appreciate having the extra cooling capacity.
cant cool to much in the high heat areas..changing my originals out soon..still work good but want some change.. bought me some atwood 15k... probably list the old ones on craigslist. front one will not run off auto.. so swap it is. ^.^d
Good luck on your fix ^.^d
Pierce,
Regarding your second video link (make roof AC more efficient), take a look at the shell on the Atwood heat pumps. I guess the OEM designers subscribed to that same theory: "remove all possible obstructions to the air flow". Compared to the cutouts on our old "low profile" Penguins, I would say our Atwood units have probably
double the air flow capability. Well worth the slightly higher silhouette, IMHO.
Chuck,
Good photo. They sure did. I'm trying to rebuild ours as even though they are not that old, they have lots of cracks. The material is different on both, strange as they were purchased at the same time. One bends easily and has a couple of long cracks, the other just breaks into small pieces if handled much. Nice to design up one made out or aluminum or something more durable.
Pierce
Tex
Have you installed a mini split? How do you drain the inside unit?
I have looked at them for fitting in the pass firewall.
If anyone is replacing rooftop units, I need a compressor unit. The rest of my Coleman is newish and works fine , simply compressor stopped.
Thanks. MM
Have used mini-splits at the house to save on electric bill,can't see modifying a coach to make one fit,at some point in time a
manufactuer will make one,if yours are working,just wait,if yours are not working look at the Atwoods.If you can afford the coach
and afford to travel why worry how to make a higher SEER work,just my opinion.
These guys are very fast. And cheap. RV Air Conditioner & Cooling | My 12 Volt Store (https://www.my12voltstore.com/RVAirConditioner_s/197.htm)
I like the low sound level
If I'm going to a new unit , I like a long term solution.
I have been making space for something cool in the pas footwell.
Your hearing!
Indoor units run from 19 dB(A) at low speeds to 49 dB(A) at high speeds. Considering that a quiet library has a noise level of 40 dB(A) and the average home's noise level is 50 dB(A), the ductless mini split indoor unit is generally quieter than its environment.
Decibel Levels of Common Sounds
20-30 dB Whisper
50 dB Refrigerator Jet Flyover at 1,000 ft.
60 dB Normal Conversation Snowmobile
70 dB Vacuum Cleaner Chainsaw
Reasons to consider mini splits.
1. Your hearing.
2. Efficiency
3. Space
4. Cost.
5. Heat pump capable.
Current Rv Ac units run 70 db on average.! Some will claim 55 - 66 db. But in use db levels are 70db.
Think about having a chain saw running 24/7 in your Rv.
Where are you going to put the compressor/condenser unit?
Good point. Probably more opportunities in this regard in a GV though removing the useless dash air condenser, (in a flat nose coach) you could probably shoehorn one in the port side engine compartment. These condensers are large and demanding regarding airflow, that's part of the high SEER rating. They crank out some low db and massive cold air seemingly batting way above their ratings.
Thought about putting one in another coach, [non-gv] would have needed to put louvers on bay door and cut hole in bottom of bay to allow air flow, and would have wasted at least half a bay. Plus the biggest 110 models are 12000 btu's, meaning two units. Just have to put up with noisy overhead units till they make remote condensers you can put in port side engine compartment, and compressors in one of the bays.
Believe one member put in modified window units, but can not remember how he vented the condensers.
Venting of the condenser is paramount towards performance and efficiency, got a church with ultra high efficiency rooftop units hidden down below the parapets at the main front entry. Energy efficient upblast condenser fans don't have enough velocity to expel the air upwards so they keep tripping out on high head pressure, due to recirculation of hot air, and efficiency is much worse than a standard unit.
That was Jerry Whiteaker - proud owner of the world famous (almost) "slick roof" U270:
1996 U270 Dual Central Air Conditioning (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=16993.0)
Jerry has far more energy and technical ability than most of us. I am envious.
The GV has a lot of room in the nose. I removed the old condenser,leaving a large area for the compressor . For the mini split, The short run to the pass foot well is also optimal IMHO. The last 2 feet my DW cant reach anyway. Both units can drain as is . For about 600$.
The smallest may even run from an inverter ?? My fridge runs on a Chinese PSW 1500 watt unit. trouble free so far. 8months,
I could also fit a window unit for a couple hundred, but still the noise... the noise... I cant hear the voices in my head.
The OE roof units sit in a puddle of (fishtank) water. My thoughts are to move my newer front unit to the rear , while building a 1/2 in fiberglass riser and trough so better control the drainage. Both of my units are sitting a little low and water does not leave. Poor design and adding a liitle hill for them to sit on makes sense to me . I reparked the bus today leaving the nose 2 in low , hoping to drain the roof better.
Thinking more.. fitting a window unit at the bumper and extending the ducts to the foot well makes the most sense per dollar. For sound VS cooling.
We should wonder why have Rv owners accepted the units that are on the market. You can scan the fourms of all makes. Conversation about noise, quality are abundant. Our money is our power to cause change. To run off other forms of power. Be at least 40db in use. Should be starting specifications of new rv ac systems. I am learning, I hope my current systems operate for a few years. Replacement will be with some form of mini split arrangement. Keep thinking, exchanging ideas.
This is due to one of the few disadvantages of owning older GV models: the flat roof. Foretravel resolved
that problem when it went to a crowned roof design on the Unicoach.
I like your idea of putting the A/C units on a "riser". I'm surprised some enterprising entrepreneur does not market a kit for this purpose.
Chuck,
Not sure when the GV changed to a curved roof but our 95 has a curved roof and interior ceiling.............
Justin & Cathy,
Yes - this is why your '95 GV is so admired as the ultimate evolution of the model. It incorporated the crowned roof and flat vertical rear cap of the upcoming Unicoach models, while retaining the classic nose of the GV (with a greatly improved access hatch). PLUS - a RETARDER!
You definitely have a Keeper!
I do like the feature of the front AC being centered in the coach verses offset to the passenger side. It's unfortunate for us GV enthusiast that FT stopped the GV production after a handful of 96 models................... :(
The fix for flat roof is simple, build a 14"x14" frame of 3/4x2in Oak, install between the Alum roof structure and the Fiberglass skin, did ours about 5 years ago gets rid of the duck pond, no more leaks,
Interesting remedy! I don't suppose you took photos of the mod, or better yet, posted a report on the Forum.
Could you give more details? How exactly did you fit the wood frame in place? Tell us more!
Dometic has an inverter ac unit, Harrier. Available in Australia in 3.1Kw or 10,500 btu. But it is 230Vac and probably different Hz. So hopefully if it stands up to conditions there they might sell it here. No start-up high amps, and quieter according to their webpages.
Dometic Harrier Inverter - Roof air conditioner (https://www.dometic.com/en-au/au/products/climate/air-conditioners/air-conditioners-for-rvs/dometic-harrier-inverter-_-183054)
My point exactly,why try and reinvent the wheel,by the time you do that inverter unit will be here,the inverter part is what makes the mini-split extra efficiant.
New AC went in yesterday. $230 for the labor onsite at the park. I ended up finding a 13.5 btu unit without control board for $960 in Panama. The local installer had the correct control board $150 in stock.
Other than a black cover (what they had in stock) we are happy to be back in business. If and when the back AC goes out I will buy a 15K btu unit with heat pump and move this new unit to the back. This should improve the situation when staying at sites with only 30 amp connections.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KwyN5r8GYA
Dual fans , Screw compressor , 3 fan speeds, 14K cooling. Good price .
This is very interesting. Perhaps a separate thread...moderator?
Lots of smoke and mirrors on this unit, with no supporting data on their claimed efficiency. Screw compressor has been around a long time but is no means a revolution in efficiency. Separate fans are a good idea.
Dont think it has any heat either... I went with atwood units.. I have 2 sitting in the garage to try and put on.. maybe this weekend.. Been 115 + lately ... Hot.. might just wait till it cools down top put them on and run new control wire
What claim is out of range?
Last time I checked the website, there was no data available so IDK. Just hype.
https://cdn.accentuate.io/1906114658393/5237057388633/MS-FACR15SA-V2.6.pdf
https://cdn.accentuate.io/1906114461785/5237057388633/MS-FACR14SA-V1.15.pdf
https://cdn.accentuate.io/1906114461785/5237057552473/IM-FHA00033_V2.0-v1559789166336.pdf
Appears they make 13.5 14.5 and 15.5 units
Looks to be playing 2nd or 3rd fiddle, and there is normal vs desert conditions
Coleman Mach - Mach 3 P.S. Power Saving RV AC | Airxcel (https://www.airxcel.com/coleman-mach/products/air-conditioners/medium-profile/mach-3-p-s)
After watching the video the "claimed" 25% more efficient furrion units would put the 13.5k competition at over 1800 watts vs the 13.5k btuh furrion unit running at 1450 watts at some not "stated" conditions vs the 13.5 k Coleman at 1075 watts standard conditions and 1320 watts at desert conditions. Typically in the USA standard conditions are 95 degree ambient, and high temp conditions are 105. So sounds like BS hype to me.