According to a senior associate at MOT, FOT is no longer selling new coaches from the factory and instead sales can only be transacted by Motorhome specialists in TX and an undisclosed dealership in FL.
Sib, I wonder it that is Featherlite? Remember when we all met to see the new '03 Foretravel with 3 slides? They sure knew how to throw a party. lol
FOT website of available new coaches seems to confirm. New coaches are available at Motorhome Specialists and RV One dealerships in Orlando and Tampa.
Nope, sounds like they're trying to increase distribution. Tampa and Orlando should be good markets. Get finished coaches out of Nacogdoches and still deliver custom rigs at the factory.
https://www.rvone.com/tamparv/Motorhomes/1
I talked with FT and the information is that the group that bought out motorhome Specialists is going to be selling all of their new coaches and the factory will no longer be selling New or Used Coaches. It will take a month or so before this is all implemented. There is no sale of the company just a different way of selling the coaches.
On reflection and in discussion with the other moderators we will leave the topic open but change the title.
I am not sure if MOT would let you test drive one prior to purchase but I had a customer that was buying a new Super C at Motorhome specialists in TX and they would not let him test drive it.
Zero vehicle sales without a test drive, on the customer write up form was "test drive?" The customers paid more if they liked the drive..
Taken differently the coach must drive poorly?
MOT will let you test drive any coach, salesman drives down the road to a gas station and lets you drive it back to MOT. You can drive it anywhere you want, but think most do just the 5 mile round trip.
Its on HY 59 so you can get it up to speed. You normally make your u turn at the Foretravel Factory so you can see all the coaches you want, but can't afford. Mel, their top salesman told me he often has had prospective customers that have never driven anything bigger than a minivan before jumping in a 45 footer. Personally I would have to have a xanax prescription to be a salesman there.
Drive any coach on a rough road NOT the salesman's route. Trust me on this. You need a hill also. I set up many demo routes for test drives
So, you're saying with most pre-owned motorhome sellers it's not like with used car lots, where they take a picture of your driver license and then toss you the key? 8)
Glad we bought our coach from Forum members (John & Genni Kerbs) who let us drive it all we wanted, and then some!
I test drove a Prevost once but did not buy it. I test drove my FT before my first purchase in TN on the interstate and back roads took it anywhere I wanted to go. Never test drove my other two FT as there was no need.
I am confused! Are you folks telling me that Foretravel no longer sells Foretravels?
It sounds like they are going the route of most RV manufacturers - they produce them, others sell them. Only a handful beyond that have a factory pick-up option for an ordered coach, but they charge extra for that option.
There are very few manufacturers that are "factory direct" anymore. Foretravel even experimented with going to dealers back in the mid 2000's so this won't be their first venture into that business model.
MHSRV is no longer an independent company owned by the O'Banion family, although they are still involved with that dealership location. The were the first RV dealership acquired by RV Retail, LLC, the same company that bought RVOne, ExploreUSA, and more recently Tom's Camperland (which are now RVOne stores).
The principals of RV Retailer, LLC are former Autonation executives, the CEO having been with Autonation from its startup through its growth.
RV Retailer LLC Acquires Motor Home Specialist - News Archives (https://www.rvbusiness.com/blog/rv-retailer-llc-acquires-motor-home-specialist.html)
RV Retailer, LLC Announces Expansion into Arizona and South Carolina (https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/rv-retailer-llc-announces-expansion-into-arizona-and-south-carolina-300884897.html)
Details seem to be emerging. From what I have been able to discern, Foretravel appears to be moving to a third party sales model for new product.
There is still one sales representative active at Foretravel, primarily selling their used and consignment inventory, it is not clear if that is a temporary or longer term strategy.
Tyle is still at Foretravel in another capacity, likely having to do with the dealer management. The very nice and talented lady salesperson is on maternity leave at this time (Kristin?) I am sure that the details will emerge over time, likely the best source being Lyle's article in the Motorcader.
Rumor has it that their was a decrease in the IC-37 price (under $500K) which is rumored to have spurred some sales (Yeah!!!) Whatever route to market their choose I surely hope they do well. Great people and product, and having the factory still around to provide parts and support to our primarily 15-30 year old coaches is amazing.
If you pull up RV One in Florida you can see the Foretravels and the prices.
Does this mean an end to the customer choosing the options and floor plan they want on the coach being built for them?
Does this mean an end to the customer choosing the options and floor plan they want on the coach being built for them?
As i experienced first hand long ago Foretravel were an average sales organization. Better to let better people do it.
Foretravel had only factory stores in the 80's when a sales managed the ca store,
This is an art. Not as science. Charlie Myer left and ran marathon and Phil Cornelius worked for Charlie. Now is at Newell.
You have to know how to hold your mouth right
It makes sense for FT to go back to using dealers. More dealers equals more visibility. Most people today don't know a Foretravel from a potato.
It makes sense for FT to not be in direct competition with their dealers. They might attract more dealers by not competing with them.
But they need to get into more markets.
also possible that the Foretravel management will now get completely different feedback from salespeople. If you think about it, the sales guys will probably be showing a customer a larger variety of coaches at the same visit. They ( sales) could be hearing more of " this one has this but the sob has that".
Think all that most of us care about is that they stay in business at NAC.
It doesn't matter what your technical expertise, manufacturing quality is, without a good sales team to market and promote the likelihood of financial success is limited. Learned that one the hard way.
If you all will remember back when MOT was selling new Foretravels ---they were their biggest selling dealer by far . Makes sense to me that they would once again be a selling dealer . MOT 's track record alone should speak loudly about that . But you know how the thinking goes at FOT so it's a crap shoot :( :( :( :( Brad Metzger
surprised they did not pick MOT as a dealer. It is pretty stupid not too and they where far and a way the biggest sales dealer they had when they did dealers. I guess they want to put their coaches in North TX and FL now. I do not think they will compare favorably to some of the other coaches on the lot unless the person knows FT. Now that they are the same chassis what sets them apart from a newmar or Entegra or Tiffen. People will look and see the price and decide that way. They are ok on the IC 37 I would figure but their IH is way too high. I guess time will tell but it does show that they have changed from factory to dealers to factory to dealers in 15 years. That is hard to build a lasting business model that way. At least MOT has been a constant and they should use them as a dealer as well. People could take a factory tour and go across the street and buy a coach. They sold the most when company was using dealer but I guess they do think that way. Who knows the reason or maybe they want to be exclusive but that is short sighted in this market. I remember Lyle saying at a GV that they were going to do the Newell method and that way they were in control. I guess the only thing that is constant is change.
Agree completely with most this. Most of the folks who visit these dealers are going to go side by side on those brands and the uplift for a FT will be hard to justify. Where I disagree is that Newmar's New Aire is seriously stiff competition for the IC-37 and I think the New Aire comes out heads and tails ahead for someone wanting a shorter DP. That is based on looking at specs and the many photos of each available online. The IC's interior seems stuck in the past, and the exterior is not terribly attractive.
The 33 footer New Aire has only the smaller 6.7 engine, but the bigger 35 ft models has the same drivetrain as the IC-37, think it will be stiff competition to the IC in the smaller coach market as it lists for $75000 less.
2020-new-aire-brochure.pdf - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xv6bPPwCtiyFtgjq8a4Ze7-6Cy1t7G5y/view)
Built over carpeting. Flange seal on slideouts. Aluminum frame. 90 gallons versus 150 fuel. Smaller holding tanks. 5/8" insulation in walls. Batten in roof. No mention of heated floors.
As a salesman give me more to sell. If you can afford one you can afford the other
No "build over carpeting" that I see. Heck, no carpeting that I see at all. Flange seal easier (and cheaper) to replace than a slide bladder - handy folks could even do their own. 5/8" bead foam is in addition to wall (and ceiling) insulation - it is not the primary insulation. Heated floors are an option.
FT is using a smaller hydronic heating plant with no engine heat/preheat loop.
It is hard to see what you get for the extra $ with the IC. The fact that they had to drop the price already (who did the market research on that one initially? They should be sent packing) confirms it.
Then you are exactly the kind of pushy salesman I would never buy from (and have left a sales location because of it).
Most likely the same ones that did the market research on that B camper that kind of fizzled.
Mike
Putting FT next to the aforementioned brands that are likely priced at a much lower price point may not bode well. Newell might as well get in there too. Most folk buying these models are likely not going to have these new units 3-5 years. As we all know all of them deprecate like a rock , so 500k vs close to Mil. Hum. As far as bigger tanks and such l doubt any of these new units will be doing any extended Dry camping any time soon so that's a moot point. IMHO it's likely to force FT to reduce prices to become competitive, that could be a bad thing. Of course I am a poor travel owner so just my thinking.
The horse trailer person too. Sadly they are probably not going to be able to compete with the higher volume manufacturers as they all have the same product now. Just an observation but one I made when they went away from building coaches their installed base bought in the past.
After spending some time reading the other rv forums, found older used coach owners do know about Foretravels, but the new buyers of sub 40 ft high line motorhomes, generally only know about Newmar, Enterga, Winnebago, Tiffin and Thor, etc., with Newmar generally thought to have the best quality and value. Appears the most valued quality of a new coach is floorplan and decor. Far different than the days when Foretravel, Country Coach, Beaver and American Coach were top of the line, and quality really mattered.
Funny reading about complaints on new SOB's, cabinet doors falling off, doors sticking, plumbing leaks, walls moving, slides leaking and not flush with body, and many comments saying, "you have to expect that in a new coach and it is easier if you just fix it yourself"
Upper Midwest was not the build quality capital long ago. That's being courteous. No aluminum framing. No batten. Any roof ladder? See any 30 year old Indiana coaches around? Business expands. You hire new people who need training. Quality drops.
Seen this many times, cyclical biz.
Need a plant tour video.
I turned off the Cornerstone video when they rolled out the carpet and put the cabinets on top. That was after the 256 bolts holding the wooden cross beams in the floor to the chassis frame rails part.
In the video or tour I would want the see if they pinched rolled the sidewalls or bagged it during the laminate part.
Did they weld the bars in the wall or just insert them like cornerstone. If the welded them did they weld all around?
Welded steel frame can normally take a roll over and be uprighted and drive,
Walk the roof of any prospective rv. Oh no ladder? They do not want you up there.
I see moving the new coaches to MHSRV and RV ONE may be working. One IC-37 now shows as sold.
Those two dealers are too few. I'd love to see a dealer in Nac, such as MOT.
I bet this will be brought up at the Grandvention.
The questions is does MOT want to be a dealer?
I hope they keep a coach or two at the factory. When I am there for service I always go thru the new units.
Given the histories involved, both related to being a dealer for FT only to have the dealership pulled, and also to carrying other new brands that went under (Country Coach, Mandalay, Born Free), if I were MOT I don't think I'd be inclined to do new model sales again. They certainly are highly successful with the used market. Plus the cost of "floorplanning" new coaches on the lot is a significant financial risk to a small dealership.
I believe that bank want a new line to give a better rate on their business loans.
Several years ago, heard mention of MOT selling new trailers out of the old Old Town Motorcoach building for that very reason. Don't know if that happened.
I assume MOT is in their owned used inventory 100% cash. The profit is if you own it cash
Consignment sales.
How many of the MOT coaches have a "C" in there stock number. Normally "P" means purchase.
Do they take in trades? consign trades?
Accross the street from MOT next to the MOT annex(old town motorcoach) is RV Outfitters of texas. this is owned by MOT.
They will offer to buy your coach as well as consign it.
They will also take your coach as trade in and apply that value to another coach either consigned or owned by MOT. You can save a good chunk on state taxes doing this.
RV 1 had them on display at FMCA including the 37. The price on the 37 was around 480 as I recall but I may be off by a few 10s of thousands.
Has anybody looked at the entire RV industry sales numbers lately? It looks like a storm is brewing....
The storm is from humongous conglomerates buying up the bulk of the RV manufacturers and only looking at the bottom line.
Drive costs and quality down, at any cost.
Thank Thor, Forest River, and REV for killing the RV industry. Most buyers don't even know of the few quality brands still in existence. They think all new RVs are junk.
All true about the quality "storm". But that's not what I was referring to. 2007 wasn't that long ago, but we forgot it so quickly.
The issue is that nobody will pay for a quality coach. Look at how few Foretravel sells or the bus converters. The market for trailers is even worse. The issue for FT is that they could not spread the emissions costs over so few units so they went with Spartan. That makes them like everyone else. There are still quality manufactures out there if you look for them but the bulk of the people just use them a couple times a year or for a short summer. So why put the money into it. 2007 destroyed a lot of companies as it was a credit crisis and anything that used credit in their business model was suspect. I remember posting on RV.net that Country Coach would go bankrupt and Monaco was one hurricane away from it. I was roundly criticized but I was right. The weight of warranty costs finally caught up to a number of manufactures and the reduced sales really made it hurt. We always have economic cycles so that is what happens all the time but not to the extent of 2007
In 2004, while wintering in Florida, I went to work for a small dealership selling Newmar coaches and Cardinal 5th wheels. In 2005 that dealer was no more. Like John just mentioned, 98% of all RV sold today are owned by 3 major companies. Production was increased, quality suffered or was non existent while looking at the bottom line. Let the buyer beware and let's save even more money by letting the buyer deal with the lack of quality and suffer through waiting months to get their newly purchase dream repaired. Result: buyers are doing more research and now the industry will reap the practices of the past!
The chassis that Spartan make for the Foretravel IH45 is made to Foretravel specs and is just used for the IH45. No one else can use this chassis. The different between the one Foretravel made and the one Spartan now makes is the Spartan one is bolted together where the Foretravel was welded.
What fueled the last 3-5 years of record RV sales and massive amount of mergers&acquisitions of manufacturers...........it was all credit.
easy credit plus pent up demand from a wave of baby boomers realizing that they could retire after the recovery from the great recession and their 401K really appreciated due to the market comeback. it looks like the crest of that wave arrived in about 2015 because that was the highest demand year in the rv industry, since then, its dropped 10-15% per year. RV sales is a leading economic indicator. the economy is going to tighten, it just a matter of when.
That may be true but I doubt anyone willlook that closely. The retarded us the big thing and on their 37 it seems like every other spartan
Seen the boom and bust many times. Old news