Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Yurre on August 10, 2019, 08:16:16 am
Title: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Yurre on August 10, 2019, 08:16:16 am
Thanks in advance. This new to me 92 Silver U300 40' needs a blood transfusion. I have ordered the 2 oil filters and 2 FF from NAPA and need a little guidance from there. Namely, where is the drain plug(S)? Also, where is the air filter? Any help would be much appreciated. YN
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Gerry Vicha on August 10, 2019, 08:49:41 am
Drain plug center of oil pan bottom of engine. Air filter behind passenger side rear tire in the compartment ahead of the side mount radiator. Make sure you only use straight 40 weight oil shell rotella T1 or Delo. Do not use a multi grade oil. The Detroit book says 40 or 50 weight oil ok. Filters for transmission oil and engine oil located both sides of engine .
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Yurre on August 10, 2019, 09:38:06 am
So Rotella 15- 40 no good? Or is that what you are referring to? The drain looks like a plug to insert ratchet extension, as opposed to a nut.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on August 10, 2019, 09:53:53 am
So Rotella 15- 40 no good? Or is that what you are referring to? The drain looks like a plug to insert ratchet extension, as opposed to a nut.
Definitely no go on 15-40. You have to use a straight weight oil.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 10, 2019, 10:02:29 am
If you are going to use Delo, make sure it's the low ash 100 and not 400. I use SAE 40. It takes 5.5 gallons so buy 7 gallons. NO MULTI GRADE. If you are doing it for the first time, it's going to be really easy to make a huge mess. I purchased a quick drain. The flush type is the best so it can't be knocked off by something on the road. Cost is about $25 delivered. Put a vacuum cleaner on the oil fill and you can install the quick drain without losing a drop. Puncture the oil filter on the bottom and drain into a container or it will make a mess when you loosen it. Tighten hand tight exactly like the directions on the side of the filter.
Use the hand primer pump to fill the fuel filter before tightening it.
Make sure you have an extra hydraulic belt. Gates Fleet Green belt is the best. Order online for about half price.
Read all the oil and fuel filter info in the archives. Use the search at the top of the page.
Pierce
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Yurre on August 10, 2019, 11:42:39 am
Awesome thank you!
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Dave Larsen on August 10, 2019, 01:46:38 pm
I use these plugs on some of my equipment including our Foretravel: https://nospillsystems.com
Some advice based on your profile picture--don't consume "Bob Marley" while working on (or driving) your rv 8)
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Yurre on August 10, 2019, 02:02:51 pm
I use these plugs on some of my equipment including our Foretravel: No-Spill™ Systems Oil Drain Plug – Official Site (https://nospillsystems.com)
Some advise based on your profile picture--don't consume "Bob Marley" while working on (or driving) your rv 8)
Bob's more photogenic than me! But really, I have another problem...I cannot get the plug out of the oil pan. It is the type that you insert a square extension or ratchet. Any advice? Thanks
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 10, 2019, 03:24:44 pm
Bob's more photogenic than me! But really, I have another problem...I cannot get the plug out of the oil pan. It is the type that you insert a square extension or ratchet. Any advice? Thanks
How about a closeup photo?
Much better Bob Marley than Jack Daniels or Jim Beam!
P
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Old Toolmaker on August 10, 2019, 04:59:16 pm
Bob's more photogenic than me! But really, I have another problem...I cannot get the plug out of the oil pan. It is the type that you insert a square extension or ratchet. Any advice? Thanks
FWIW My 50 year old 850cc Fiat uses a 17mm hex key. So yes you might have a 1/2" or larger square drive. I have a Cummins. I have a hex headed plug. I also have the original plug with all of the vice grip marks where the hex used to be. Buy the right tool for the job.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Dave Larsen on August 10, 2019, 05:11:18 pm
#1 Is it the only plug on the bottom of the pan? I have trucks with multiple plugs in the pan. #2 Maybe Bob caused some confusion so just to make sure...righty‐-tighty, lefty--loosy... :dance:
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 10, 2019, 06:33:59 pm
Plug is in the bottom of the steel pan. . Can't remember what kind it was before I put in the quick drain. Looking up at it, it turns counter clockwise to loosen.
Pierce
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: stump on August 10, 2019, 07:33:26 pm
Your drain plug if it has a square hole insert a 1/2 ratchet you may need a breaker bar. Drain plug should be torqued to 35 ft lbs. I Get my Delo 100 straight 40wt from O'Reilly's their part number is CHV 100-40-1 a case contains 3 gallons. Buy extra you will not find it on the road when traveling. Carry it with you and reorder when needed. The 2 strokes were the mainstay engine for years. Around 1995 with the emmision regulation. They could not make it. These are great engines but over time with not that many on the road, truck service facility etc stopped carrying the oil supplies needed. Here is a link with lots of 2 stroke information Tejas Coach Works Factory DDC Oil Information Data Page (http://www.tejascoach.com/ddcoil.html)
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 10, 2019, 08:59:48 pm
I order it from a local trucking company. If you live anywhere close to the sea, most marine suppliers will carry it. Next up is Exxon XD-3, SAE 40, also low ash. Mobil Delvac 1240 is also low ash and available in #40. Shell Rotella 40 is supposed to be right on the cutoff for low ash content. NAPA is supposed to have it in 5 gallon containers with their own name.
With high summer temperatures and coolant temps at 200, SAE 50 is recommended. Also seems to be a favorite for the 8V-92TA (or 12V-92, 16V-92)
They don't test for CF-2 any longer. Probably a lot of synthetics will work fine or even better.
Pierce
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: steve31 on August 11, 2019, 12:06:04 am
Very first thing I did when we picked up our 1990 GV is change ALL the fluids. That includes the generator. Coolant, tranny, oil. Killer of DD's is heat and oil troubles. Will be at the barn tomorrow and get you all the numbers for all the filters including trans and water filters. ( yes water filter, sometimes known as Perry filters they help coolant systems with corrosion problems). Delo 100 low ash from O eilys is the way to go. Know it's some cash but you then know everything is set and good to go. I roll with a full set of filters, belts and 9 gallons of oil. I can find a shop that can do the work but it's nice to have everything I need to make it happen. Air filter as well. Do yourself a favor and get a Donaldson air filter. They have twice the media as cheaper brands. You have a turbo ramming air thru a supercharger so lot's of cubic feet of air going thru the system. Will get you the numbers and post them. Just got back from 5 week trip, 3400 miles. Burned 1 gallon of oil, thrilled about that. Keep the motor cool and check the oil level every morning before you roll and that motor will last a long time.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Yurre on August 11, 2019, 09:06:42 am
Great Info guys! Some funny stuff too. Gonna try again today to get that plug out. Thanks
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Old Toolmaker on August 11, 2019, 09:28:00 am
Great Info guys! Some funny stuff too. Gonna try again today to get that plug out. Thanks
My final shot. Before you were born, Yurre, and since the end of production of the 2-stroke Detroit Diesel, the Detroit was renown for its oil leaks. And when coupled with a manual transmission, known for its ability to run backwards with the exhaust taking out the air filter and the lack of lubrication ruining the bearings. IF I had known that starting with the U280 models I could have had a 2-stroke, I might have bankrupted myself to own one.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 11, 2019, 11:11:45 am
Toolmaker,
Detroit never ended production of the 2-cycles. They are still in production but not for the domestic civilian market but lots are still sold to the military and also abroad where emission standards are lower. You can still buy parts and not only from aftermarket suppliers but from Detroit themselves. Besides the normal parts, they sell "rebuilt" short blocks where buyers have said many were actually new.
General Motors spun off Detroit Diesel as well as EMD (Electro Motive Diesel). Since then, Detroit has had several owners including Roger Penske. Mercedes bought them where they are a subsidiary of Daimler Trucks North America. Over 3.5 million of the two cycles have been built with Detroit passing the 4 million mark in 2000. Rolls Royce jet engines are also owned my MTU (Mercedes, Daimler, etc) This is why most parts are very inexpensive compared to most other diesels.
The only reason the engines were known for oil leaks is because GM came up with the the "sidewinder" engine setup for their buses and to save a little length, turned the engines partially on their sides. The two cycles at that time had tin valve covers with only two two hand fasteners to hold the valve covers down. They leaked lots of oil. Since then, they have gone to cast aluminum valve covers and are dry engines plus, sitting upright, they don't get a chance to leak. After an oil change, we drove from California to the east coast and back with the dip stick down just under two quarts.
No, the Detroit 2 cycles installed in Foretravels cannot run backwards. The 92 series was the first heavy duty diesel to go to electronic controls where the DDEC II keeps all fuel, oil pressure, fuel temperature, etc, etc. under it's control. There is no rack to run as they used to say and many still do today. Repeating, the 6V-92TA HAS NO RACK TO RUN. It can't run backwards and the injection amount and timing is all computer controlled. If you overheat it, run it out of oil, etc. it will automatically shut down.
They have lots of torque at low RPM and excellent fuel economy at lower RPMs. They can produce huge HP for marine use but the roots blower loses efficiency quickly at high RPM and causes the engine to use lots of fuel. The Coast Guard uses these engines for their aluminum boats that are famous for running the bar at harbor entrances.
Couple of tidbits, EMD is supplying somewhere between 1100 and 4000 new 2 cycles to Union Pacific Railroad. These are just giant (710 cubic engines per cylinder) versions of our 6V-92TA but without the Roots blower.
Detroit built quite a few all aluminum versions of the two cycle and some may be found on ebay.
The term, "Screaming Jimmy" was coined because they fire on each stroke or twice as often as a 4 cycle so only sound like they are turning lots of RPM. Watch the tach and you can see that our engine maxes at 2130 RPM. Our ex-Greyhound didn't even have a tach on the 8V-71 and fuel cutoff was at about 1850 RPM. It never got less than over 10 mpg even in the mountains with toad.
Detroit's (Mercedes) new (to the U.S.) DT12 automated manual transmission is what we should be using. It's the same type as the new mid engined Corvette uses. No torque converter, no ATF to engine coolant intercooler to leak and ruin both engine and transmission.
Pierce
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Yurre on August 11, 2019, 11:38:06 am
Enclosed(I hope) is a picture of the engine compartment and one of the oil pan with a 3/8 ratchet in the plug. The white thing in foreground is the oil filter. This plug will not move.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 11, 2019, 11:47:11 am
It won't move because your 3/8" ratchet is way too short. Stick a two foot pipe over the handle of the ratchet and it will come off. Change the oil hot not cold. Remember, you have five gallons plus to catch with no way to stop it once you remove the plug. That's the big reason I like the quick drain. Fill one gallon milk containers, stop, start again, etc.
Looks like the oil fill stopper is half way out.
Your 1992 probably has one radiator fan. Correct?
Pierce
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Yurre on August 11, 2019, 11:56:34 am
It won't move because your 3/8" ratchet is way too short. Stick a two foot pipe over the handle of the ratchet and it will come off. Change the oil hot not cold. Remember, you have five gallons plus to catch with no way to stop it once you remove the plug. That's the big reason I like the quick drain. Fill one gallon milk containers, stop, start again, etc.
Looks like the oil fill stopper is half way out.
Your 1992 probably has one radiator fan. Correct?
Pierce
I did put a breaker bar on the ratchet and now the plug is rounded. :( Yes I did loosen the fill stopper. One rad. fan. Any suggestions on removing the plug? drill and easy out? What a terrible drain plug. Oh, and I have a huge 3' dia. aluminum short pan that holds 10 gal. YN
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: craneman on August 11, 2019, 01:51:22 pm
Put a pipe wrench on the outside of the plug preferably a long one, and unscrew. Replace the plug at any big box store as it looks like pipe threads from your photo.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Dave Larsen on August 11, 2019, 04:14:34 pm
Put a pipe wrench on the outside of the plug preferably a long one, and unscrew.
Use a pipe wrench that has nice sharp teeth and make it a 2 person deal. One holds the wrench up flush against the oil pan while the other carefully turns the wrench with a pipe extension on the handle.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 11, 2019, 07:29:55 pm
Yes, as posted above. Make sure you have a pipe wrench with nice sharp teeth and like Dave mentions, have a helper keep it up so it can't slip off. There should be plenty of meat on it from the photo. Now, you are seeing the big advantage of a quick drain. Never have to use a wrench again.
Mine sticks down and I will install the flush type but have a long list before this. You can also see how I punctured the oil filter to drain it before unscrewing it.
Pierce
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 11, 2019, 08:05:37 pm
YR,
Since you are a new owner, why not find another Foretravel owner in your area to give you the benefit of their experience in all the ins and outs of the coach. Nice if it's a U300 owner. Even after eleven years, I'm still finding out something new about the coach. Some things are just annoying but others can put you by the side of the road.
The hydraulic belt is the most important item to have a spare for. If your coach has eight grooves on both the crankshaft pulley and the hydraulic pump, this is the belt you need. The photo below is for a 1993 with two fans. Yours may be different. If it comes off, it will be a mile or two behind you and without a spare, you are out to lunch. Super easy to change with only a 3/8" or 1/2" breaker bar and a few seconds to install. It's the first belt so no need to remove any other belt.
If the belt brakes, you may not notice the temperature going up until the DDEC goes into partial power for 30 seconds and then shuts down. Resist the temptation to push the override button. This has killed several engines.
Pierce
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Old Toolmaker on August 11, 2019, 08:45:58 pm
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart wrote: "No, the Detroit 2 cycles installed in Foretravels cannot run backwards. The 92 series was the first heavy duty diesel to go to electronic controls where the DDEC II keeps all fuel, oil pressure, fuel temperature, etc, etc. under it's control. There is no rack to run as they used to say and many still do today. Repeating, the 6V-92TA HAS NO RACK TO RUN. It can't run backwards and the injection amount and timing is all computer controlled. If you overheat it, run it out of oil, etc. it will automatically shut down."
Well that just takes all of the fun out of life. Do you think the early adoption was a last gasp attempt to meet emmission standards?
3/8" square drain plug? Makes me feel better about the humongous 17mm hex on my Fiat.
Yurre? Buy a new Rigid brand pipe wrench.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 11, 2019, 11:34:30 pm
Well that just takes all of the fun out of life. Do you think the early adoption was a last gasp attempt to meet emmission standards?
The 92 series was introduced in 1974 and the electronic controls aka DDEC was introduced as an option in 1985. It was the first heavy duty diesel to feature the electronic controls. It continued to be used for highway use until the end of 1994 when Detroit introduced the 60 series. The 60 series was the first HD diesel to have electronic controls from the engine's beginning.
When Mercedes (Daimler AG/MTU) took over control of Detroit, they took the famous 60 series engine and made changes to it and it's now sold as the DD13, DD15 and DD16.
To smog 92 series 2 cycle, a lot of major changes would have had to be engineered. As you probably know, the 92 series has no injection pump but rather has unit injectors with each cylinder having it's own injection pump/ injector. Each bank as a camshaft with an extra lobe to operate the unit injector. This is one of the reasons the straight grade oil is used because of the high sheer load on the cam roller. The fuel to the unit injectors does not come through injection lines but rather through the interior of the cylinder head. This means that common rail injectors with 25,000 psi would require a lot of engineering. The blower also takes a lot of power at high RPMs so it would have to be replaced by a clutch system for the turbo like the railroad 2 cycles have. Another engineering problem. Easier to start with a new engine like the DD13,15, 16.
The big advantage for a motorhome is the very low failure rate. This is due to low EGTs because of the huge amount of air passing through the engine. So low that Detroit never installed the oil sprayers up to the piston crowns. They typically see only 750 degrees. Check the EGTs on the 800 hp 8V-92TA (12 liters) engine breaking in on the dyno. In the small digital gauges on the right, you can see the temps don't go past 475C or about 890F. Since the Detroit 2 cycles have aftercoolers and not intercoolers, this and the fact the 4 valves in the head are all exhaust valves, helps to keep the EGTs way down and the reason they are hard to blow up.
The 92 series was introduced in 1974 and the electronic controls aka DDEC was introduced as an option in 1985. It was the first heavy duty diesel to feature the electronic controls. It continued to be used for highway use until the end of 1994 when Detroit introduced the 60 series. The 60 series was the first HD diesel to have electronic controls from the engine's beginning.
When Mercedes (Daimler AG/MTU) took over control of Detroit, they took the famous 60 series engine and made changes to it and it's now sold as the DD13, DD15 and DD16.
To smog 92 series 2 cycle, a lot of major changes would have had to be engineered. As you probably know, the 92 series has no injection pump but rather has unit injectors with each cylinder having it's own injection pump/ injector.
The big advantage for a motorhome is the very low failure rate. Pierce https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaKhIjYazrk
So please tell me this: What changes were made to the fuel injection system with the advent of the DDEC system?
My being raised in New England, during the last ice age, the idea of a diesel engine whose injectors are on whoopee until oil pressure is raised revolve around "God! That engine is tough!"
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 12, 2019, 06:01:44 pm
So please tell me this: What changes were made to the fuel injection system with the advent of the DDEC system? My being raised in New England, during the last ice age, the idea of a diesel engine whose injectors are on whoopee until oil pressure is raised revolve around "God! That engine is tough!" /quote] DDEC II (that all U300s have) is what determines when and how much the unit injectors inject. Instead of a rack (steel rod) that twists to controls all the injectors in unison, there are wires that go to the injectors. There is a pressure relief valve on both systems (like most diesels) that keeps diesel from draining back to the tank so the engine starts quickly. The camshaft on both systems has a pushrod that goes up to the injector and creates about 3000 psi.
With the mechanical system, the rod has to control all the injectors evenly so they are working at the exact same time. The amount of fuel is mostly controlled by the size of the injector nozzle. The DDEC beats that all to hell as the signal from the ECU triggers the injector to spray and even better, how long it sprays. To get more horsepower, the DDEC ECU can be modified (by Detroit) to increase length of time the injectors spray. The longer they spray, the more horsepower the engine makes.
So, instead of having to have a lot of mechanical ability, the DDEC only needs an inexpensive reader with a LCD display to see how the injectors are working and it even cuts a cylinder and checks the RPM drop and how much more fuel the other injectors have to add to keep the RPM stable at either the 600 RPM idle or at 1000 RPM. It does almost 50 other functions that would take days for a shop to do.
The down side: the mechanical injectors are dirt cheap at about $50/each. One electronic injector costs the same as replacing all six mechanical types.
The only other down side it that now, the engine has to have electricity to make the ECU work. The mechanical versions don't need any juice to run, not even for a fuel solenoid. Nothing.
Replacing a mechanical injector is a little tricky as they have to be at just the right height plus the rack may need to be adjusted so the engine runs smoothly.
Here is a guy "running the rack" on a mechanical Detroit. As you can see, it's not difficult, just time consuming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ-31etm0a8
Replacing a mechanical injector. Note that all four valves are exhaust valves. Intake is through ports in the cylinders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSk3bTCxZ0U
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Old Toolmaker on August 13, 2019, 09:04:56 am
Thank you very much. I never thought that the Detroit Diesels made it into the modern age before being superseded for emission control purposes. Also many thanks for telling me how they accomplished the fact. I've always had a soft spot in my soul for 2-stroke diesel engines for their potential thermodynamic efficiency, the cold end stays cold and the hot end stays hot. IMNSHO the only improvement is to go to an opposed cylinder design.
The last outside work we had was for a company called P.H. Precision in Pembroke, NH. The Hoecker brothers among other things manufactured the body, armature and metering pin for the Robert Bosch fuel injectors. I spent some time taking the original plan for production and building something that worked in the real world. Over a 9 year period Lynn and I designed and built 44 pieces of factory automation to address shortcomings in the original plan. It was all a matter of scale. Until taking on the automotive work the Hoeckers had no experience with anything larger than 8 mm in diameter.
Ultimately "I" wanted to add rotary aircraft engines as a company side product. The Hoeckers told others about "my fantasy" and now Rotec in Australia manufactures small radial engines for the home-built airplane market. P.H. Precision was sold at auction in 2007, Lynn and I putter along.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: coastprt on August 13, 2019, 11:46:23 pm
Thank you very much. I never thought that the Detroit Diesels made it into the modern age before being superseded for emission control purposes. Also many thanks for telling me how they accomplished the fact. I've always had a soft spot in my soul for 2-stroke diesel engines for their potential thermodynamic efficiency, the cold end stays cold and the hot end stays hot.
In 2017 I would liked to have gone to the Bus Boys Rally at the restored Greyhound Bus terminal in Evansville, In. Plenty of Detroit 2-cycles here! Busboys Collection LLC (http://busboyscollection.org/)
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: jcus on August 14, 2019, 12:23:32 am
Of all my motorhomes, this was my favorite. 64 gmc, 8v71 2-stroke, Allison 730 3 speed transmission. Best sounding too. Detroit 71 Series Two Stroke Diesel Specs & History (http://www.dieselhub.com/specs/detroit-71-series-two-stroke-diesel.html) Best cruising speed 76 mph at 2100 rpm, engine was happy there, but gov was adjusted to 2300 if needed for passing.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 14, 2019, 12:44:27 am
My GM 4107 Buffalo was almost exactly like yours except taller and 35 feet. Ex-Greyhound, it got a ticket for 86 mph the day I bought it from the bus company. Lower final drive than yours. Manual 4 speed Spicer's first gear was too tall for our driveway or I would still have it. Air bags all around, easy to work on, great handling and a football team could practice on the roof.
Sidewinder engine/trans had instant access and the engine could be pulled in an hour or so or the whole package in a morning..Great shop and detailed parts manual. Temp gauge never moved off the thermostat. PTO radiator fan and 300 amp direct drive brushless, oil cooled alternator. It would bolt on our engine. Quite a few have been repowered with 6V-92TAs.
Fold down front bumper hid the spare tire.
Pierce
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Old Toolmaker on August 14, 2019, 02:00:16 pm
There was a Greyhound style bus conversion on my short list, but after I visited the FTX my mind was pretty well made up. The interior layout had me hooked. The tire size was a good compromise between an intercity bus and what is on an overloaded 1-ton step van chassis which is all the Chevy P-30 chassis is really. The in-line 6 is an engine layout I've lived with for decades, and the MT-643 is pretty close to being a late '50s Hydramatic. And the Greyhound bus conversion failed the interior layout test.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 14, 2019, 02:29:09 pm
That's the trouble with 95% of the DIY bus conversions. Poor vision, DIY skills, etc. But the high end buses would fit in where a mobile brothel was needed.
This Greyhound conversion is the best I have ever seen for any motorhome here or in Europe. Wish I had the talent to do something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OL8Ntmg7gQ
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: coastprt on August 14, 2019, 03:25:27 pm
That's the trouble with 95% of the DIY bus conversions. Poor vision, DIY skills, etc. But the high end buses would fit in where a mobile brothel was needed.
This Greyhound conversion is the best I have ever seen for any motorhome here or in Europe. Wish I had the talent to do something like this:
Pierce, Absolutely stunning!
Check out this DIY 1985 Eagle conversion by Greg Roberts. D76LZYZT6N by Greg Roberts | Photobucket (https://s384.photobucket.com/user/groberts1998/library/D76LZYZT6N?page=1) My Custom Eagle Bus Conversion (https://www.rv-boondocking-the-good-life.com/my-custom-eagle-bus-conversion.html)
I contacted him last year about a post he had on Bus Nuts about turning off the smoke control with a Pro-Link on His DD6v92.. He told me there was a checkbox on the laptop software with that parameter on/off that the Detroit dealer used. He selected the program to upgrade to 350 HP and 1020 Ft lbs. of torque also. He said acceleration was way better with the smoke control off.
There's an Eagle bus just up the road from me sitting in the weeds. Wish I had the time, skills, and coach bucks!
Jerry
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 14, 2019, 04:00:23 pm
Jerry,
There is a checkbox for smoke control in online ProLink user guides but I don't have the firmware update on either of my ProLinks. You can just put a resistor and a switch to control it so you could turn it on or off. The four speed combined with not much fuel until you get boost really hurts up at altitude. I don't notice it down in the valley or San Francisco but stop signs/lights do take a little longer to get boost. Using the extra wires from the engine compartment to the front, here is how to get rid of the lag but be able to go back to smoke control with the flip of a switch: Poor Acceleration from a stop / DDEC I II III IV / smoke control / Fix ?? (https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=1169.0) A 100 ohm resistor tricks the DDEC into thinking there is 5 psi boost coming off idle so it gives it gives more fuel (injectors stay on for a couple of milliseconds longer).
Without a fire department or marine serial number, 350 HP/1020 torque is as much as you can get as Detroit does not want any emission violations. There must be some secrets but I don't know anyone that can hack the DDEC.
Since Snap-On bought ProLink, there is zero support when you call SO. Too bad they don't support their legacy products. China makes a nice product that connects to a computer so you can work on any electronic HD engine, ABS brakes and Allison transmissions. I'm just never sure if what they advertise is correct for the older DDECs on the 2 cycles. They sell it under several different names here but well over $1000.
Pierce
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: stump on August 14, 2019, 08:16:04 pm
I have the software on my laptop. I have Detroit software and can and am writing , changing, modifying ecm programs But have just done DDEC3 and IV. DDEC II has a different harness and I have not gotten it yet. The software allows you to upload a copy of the calibration in the ecm. You then save it on computer. You then open cal in the software and make your changes then save as another cal. Then you can download the new cal in the ecm snd try it outm you still have a copy of the original cal saved on computer if you want to go back stock. Its pretty cool i have been playing with my semi ECM trying different tunes etc. The calibration has to be opened using the correct meta file I have all ddec 3 and 4 but only 1 ddec2 so far. The DDEC3 and 4 are so superior to the ddec2 . When i figure out the ddec2 cals I'll clue you in to what can be done.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: coastprt on August 14, 2019, 10:53:52 pm
I have the software on my laptop. I have Detroit software and can and am writing , changing, modifying ecm programs But have just done DDEC3 and IV. DDEC II has a different harness and I have not gotten it yet. The software allows you to upload a copy of the calibration in the ecm. You then save it on computer. You then open cal in the software and make your changes then save as another cal. Then you can download the new cal in the ecm snd try it outm you still have a copy of the original cal saved on computer if you want to go back stock. Its pretty cool i have been playing with my semi ECM trying different tunes etc. The calibration has to be opened using the correct meta file I have all ddec 3 and 4 but only 1 ddec2 so far. The DDEC3 and 4 are so superior to the ddec2 . When i figure out the ddec2 cals I'll clue you in to what can be done.
Stump,
Is this how it's done? This demo from Vietdiesel shows reprogramming done with DDDL 8.07 software which they sell. When I watched the demo I saw DDEC II on one of the display pages. Detroit Diesel Diagnostic Link (DDDL 8.07) + Full Key Generator licence (https://vietdiesel.com/en/diesel-software-and-manual/99-detroit-diesel-diagnostic-link-dddl-807-full-key-generator-licence.html)
Jerry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09j6N3VXuFw
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 15, 2019, 11:02:01 am
Stump and Jerry,
Good deal. Nice to be able to turn the no smoke on and off at will. Wonder what else it can do? Now that I'm awake and have my latte in front of me, I checked AliExpress and found a bunch of software as well as something called a "Backdoor Password Generator." Wondering a couple of things, will this allow "off highway horsepower" and does it work for early DDEC II that we have? Is the "Full Key Generator" license the same thing as a backdoor password generator? Seems tough to find anything that will actually program the DDEC II other than the ProLink 9000 that we have. I have DDDL V8.04 for PC but it won't go back far enough.
YouTube demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMOZuCmd4Gc
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: stump on August 15, 2019, 11:27:19 am
No Jerry that will not do it. I am using Detroit Calibration Tool It is engineereing software. You cannot reprogram in the sense of just upload a new calibration . You have to modify the existing calibration. It is a little involved but the outcome can be beneficial. Like I said above the DDEC2 is a different platform than the DDEC3 and 4 . The DDEC 3@4 I can do on the vehicle. As I understand the DDEC2 has to be done at the ecm. I have connected to mine on the coach with the software but I cannot get into the calibration without the proper cables. The cable Is about 150.00. The Chinese kits you see on Ebay will get you the data link and the software But you will not have the proper cable to connect. I bought one abd tried it out. I sent it back because it was hit and miss connecing to my semi. I spent the money about 500.00 and bought the real one on Ebay. This software runs on windows XP so you need that platform also. I have a dedicated XP laptop just for playing with the ecms . The software that comes with the chinese link is cracked. It is not a just load and go software it is very involved to understand how to get it to open. I messed with it for 3 weeks and with the help of friends got it working. I have a friend in Canada that has been coaching me on this. I am just so busy with work and seperating etc no time to mess with it.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: steve31 on August 15, 2019, 02:36:20 pm
Yurre: Attached is the filter list for our 1990 GV. I have rear radiator so no hydralic pump belt. I use the same oil ( Delo 100 40wt ). Only one oil to carry. Your rig will be different but engine, tranny and water should be the same. Your air filter may be different as well.
Been following the thread here about DD performance. Sounds interesting, who doesn't want better performance. However I'm looking for long life, with minimal repair costs. so for me, going to leave it stock.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Protech Racing on August 15, 2019, 02:51:56 pm
Maybe my HP tuner Pro package can trim these. It does 99 % of post 96 vehicles. Spent enough it should. It has to have the OBD data port.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 15, 2019, 03:24:28 pm
Maybe my HP tuner Pro package can trim these. It does 99 % of post 96 vehicles. Spent enough it should. It has to have the OBD data port.
Our coach with the DDEC has the OBD port but your "tuner pro" is not going to the job unfortunately. I do have a PDF with the pin connections on the port and can post if you think you will like to try.
Here are a few fuel filter and secondary discharge pressure gauge photos. Reading is at idle. The manual hand pump will bring the fuel from the tank to the primary filter, then through the lift pump and then the secondary filter and last, through the pressure relief valve and back though the fuel return line to the fuel tank. The "O" rings failed on ours, but a hardware store had a couple that fit for $0.10/ea. Someone overtightened the relief valve (silver) so I had to replace it with the gold colored one.
Title: Re: Oil Change DD6V92
Post by: coastprt on August 15, 2019, 03:46:45 pm
I just checked with Stewart Stevenson in Harvey, La. They knew about turning the smoke control off but said they can't do it because EPA regulations won't allow it. My coach does not smoke from a dead stop in traffic and it would be nice to have the ability to turn it on/off when needed for faster acceleration.