Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: Hans&Marjet on August 12, 2019, 06:18:18 pm
Title: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Hans&Marjet on August 12, 2019, 06:18:18 pm
After reading several posts regarding A/C replacement, we decided to order the Atwood 15K unit.....ordered 3 times from various vendors and all came back with " Item has been discontinued" bummerr now what ?? Any recommendation for a similar performing unit with heat pump....all comments appreciated
Thx
Hans
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 12, 2019, 06:25:15 pm
Did you try My 12 Volt Store? That's where we got ours, at the best online price we could find. Their web page shows them in stock. We called to verify they actually had units in stock before we ordered them online. Whole process went smooth - no troubles.
White 15026 + 15021 (Complete non-ducted assembly)
Atwood 15,000 BTU Non Ducted AC with Heat Pump (https://www.my12voltstore.com/Atwood_15_000_BTU_Non_Ducted_AC_with_Heat_Pump_p/15021-15026.htm)
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Hans&Marjet on August 12, 2019, 06:29:01 pm
Did you try MY 12 Volt Store? That's where we got ours, at the best online price we could find. Their web page shows them in stock.
White 15026 + 15021 (Complete non-ducted assembly)
Atwood 15,000 BTU Non Ducted AC with Heat Pump (https://www.my12voltstore.com/Atwood_15_000_BTU_Non_Ducted_AC_with_Heat_Pump_p/15021-15026.htm)
Chuck, I did, they called me back today and offered a black covered unit.....not for us. They also mentioned once the stock (black units) are depleted there will be no more.
H
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 12, 2019, 06:30:55 pm
OK - sorry about that. We have been totally happy with ours.
Did you consider getting a black unit and painting the cover white?
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Rudy on August 12, 2019, 06:36:49 pm
You may want to look at Furrion brand RV A/Cs. They are new to the market, have 2 fan motors and a screw type compressor. Advertise being quiet and lower amp draw. Several dealers listed in Houston area in "Where to buy".
I would like to know what you find about them if you check them out. Dumbmetic purchased Attwood and has killed them. Very sorry to see a really good A/C go out of the market.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Rudy on August 12, 2019, 06:38:51 pm
Plus Chuck
You can purchase black one and install aftermarket white covers. That was what was on my A/Cs before being replaced with Atwood's.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 12, 2019, 06:46:06 pm
This outfit says they have white replacement shells in stock:
Atwood Air Command Air Conditioner White Shroud | RV Parts Country (https://www.rvpartscountry.com/Atwood-Air-Command-AirConditioner-White-Shroud.html)
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 13, 2019, 09:06:25 am
Dumbmetic purchased Attwood and has killed them. Very sorry to see a really good A/C go out of the market.
Since this appears to be the (sad) case, I think some Forum member needs to step up, purchase a couple of the Furrion units, and give us a "hands on" real world test. We need to know how these units will fit and work in our coaches, and if they are a suitable replacement for the aging OEM units still in use by many members.
Air Conditioning – furrion-global (https://furrion.com/collections/air-conditioning)
We were lucky enough to grab a couple of the last remaining Atwood 15K heat pumps, and are very happy with their performance. However, there is nothing ground breaking in their design. I think it would be easy for other brands (such as Furrion) to produce units that work just as well, or even better.
I have very limited experience with RV air conditioners. I've used the OEM Penguins that came with our coach, and the Atwood heat pumps. To me, the biggest difference between them is how they move the air. Penguins had one fan motor - Atwoods have 2 fan motors. The Penguins were either ON, with fan and compressor running, or OFF. The Atwood air circulation fan runs all the time, and the compressor (fan) cycles on and off as required.
So you get your choice of two kinds of noise. With the Penguins, you have silence (and no air movement within the coach), or a loud jarring racket when the compressor and fan kick on to cool and move the air, and again when they kick off. With the Atwoods, you have a constant low volume background fan noise all the time, and a small change in the noise quality (not volume) when the compressor cycles on and off.
To me, it seems more efficient to keep the air within the coach moving all the time. It "feels" more comfortable to me. There is less noticeable change in air temperature between "too hot" and "too cold" as the compressor goes on and off, because the air is kept constantly stirred up and "homogenized". The Atwoods work more like the (heat pump) air conditioner in our house, and I like that.
But like I said, this is something any A/C manufacturer could incorporate into their design. All they need is two separate fan motors. It would work just as well with conventional air conditioners - doesn't need to be a heat pump. We haven't yet had the opportunity to try the "heat" function on our Atwoods, so can't comment on whether or not that feature is worth extra money.
I really hope the Furrion units work out as well as the Atwoods. Will be interested to hear the first Forum member user report!
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: DavidS on August 13, 2019, 10:08:58 am
I have 2 Atwood 15k sitting in the garage.. Guess I am glad I ordered when I did... I looked at Furrion but they didnt have the heat option and I use it from time to time.. So Atwood It was...
Worse case I would order the black and swap the covers.. order from the My12vstore and still be ahead on total costs from other stores.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Phranko on August 13, 2019, 10:41:52 am
Just ordered the Furrion, having it installed on the 28th. The local dealer didn't know they were listed as a dealer on the Furrion website. I'll report back my findings.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Rudy on August 13, 2019, 12:40:43 pm
Frank, I will be very interested in your findings.
They also state the compressor has a soft start feature, no current spike (70 amp) and hard hum as the compressor starts.
I put a soft start on my Attwoods. You can not hear compressor start, instead of my clamp on amp meter reading nearly lock rotor current spike, it starts at 2 amps, then 6 and finally get to 14.
Thanks for giving one a go.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: OldManSax on August 13, 2019, 08:06:42 pm
FYI, A member on another forum I belong to stated that his Atwood shuts down @ 105F ambient temperature. He checked into it and found that spec was in the fine print. He is pretty upset since he is from the Southwest and occasionally runs into high ambient temps. Again, this is not from personal experience, but the poster quoted is well respected on the other forum..
TOM
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 13, 2019, 08:59:34 pm
We live in Midland, TX. Our coach sits unprotected in our driveway getting beat on by the merciless sun. We are plugged in to 50A at our house, and have been running our new Atwood 15K heat pumps every day. We like to keep the coach cool because our fridge is always loaded with food, the pantry is full of dry and canned goods, and the closets/bathroom cabinets are packed with personal items so we can hit the road on short notice.
I went out to check the coach yesterday when the official high temp here was 107 degrees. With the Atwoods running on AUTO fan and COOL and thermostats set to 73 degrees, it was actually 75 degrees inside the coach measured on two different thermometers. That is plenty cool for me. I guess nobody told my units they were supposed to shut down.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Phranko on August 13, 2019, 10:57:32 pm
Frank, I will be very interested in your findings.
They also state the compressor has a soft start feature, no current spike (70 amp) and hard hum as the compressor starts.
I put a soft start on my Attwoods. You can not hear compressor start, instead of my clamp on amp meter reading nearly lock rotor current spike, it starts at 2 amps, then 6 and finally get to 14.
Thanks for giving one a go.
Rudy that soft start feature has me following another rabbit trail... just busy learning here cause I'm new, I had no idea of such. The old AC we are replacing works great, you can hang meat back there. It's just so dang loud. I question leaving the old unit at the repair shop for disposal or saving/reusing.
Inputs welcome
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: jcus on August 13, 2019, 11:03:04 pm
Rudy that soft start feature has me following another rabbit trail... just busy learning here cause I'm new, I had now idea of such. The old AC we are replacing works great, you can hang meat back there. It's just so dang loud. I question leaving the old unit at the repair shop for disposal or saving/reusing.
Inputs welcome
I sold an old Mach I last year for $250 on Craigslist. Doubt a soft start would quiet down your old unit when running, it's advantage is in starting.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Jim Frerichs on August 14, 2019, 08:11:01 am
I have Soft-Starts on my 3 Dometic A/C's and they are a quieter when starting up. Obviously that helps on occasional 30 amp service, but I wouldn't recommend the extra expense for fan noise. Its really too sad that Atwood sold out to Dometic. Watch out for Lippert industries - they seem to be buying out everybody. .About Us | Lippert Components, Inc (http://www.lci1.com/about) Jim
2002 U320 42'
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Protech Racing on August 16, 2019, 10:15:01 am
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 16, 2019, 10:20:29 am
Rudy or Jim:
Out of curiosity, what exactly is involved in "putting soft start" on a rooftop A/C? Lot of work? Big expense? Worthwhile?
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Rudy on August 16, 2019, 10:41:05 am
Chuck,
Big expense, $265 ea.
Remove cover, remove electric box cover, insert wires through existing grommet, disconnect specified existing wire, make connections as described in instructions, replace covers, turn A/C on. You are done.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: jcus on August 16, 2019, 11:26:13 am
If your are really handy, but you do have to supply a capacitor. New EasyStart™ 366 Soft Starter for Single Phase Motors (Board-ONLY) –... (https://www.microair.net/collections/easystart-soft-starters/products/easystart-366-soft-starter-for-single-phase-motors-board-only?variant=29181710923)
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Pamela & Mike on August 16, 2019, 11:28:42 am
Are there any other recommended sources/brands for "soft start" modules, besides Jim C's "really handy do-it-yerself" suggestion?
I have just enough electric knowledge to be dangerous...mostly to myself.
EasyStart 364 (3-ton) Single Phase Soft Starter for Air Conditioners –... (https://www.microair.net/products/easystart-364-3-ton-single-phase-soft-starter-for-air-conditioners?variant=30176048267) There is a code that will get you 10 or 15% off, maybe Rudy remembers it. OFF! Micro-Air EasyStart Discount Code RVGEEKS (https://www.thervgeeks.com/updates-and-upgrades/micro-air-easy-start-install/)
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 16, 2019, 10:01:17 pm
I ordered one EasyStart 364 to give it a try. Thanx to Rudy, Jim C. and Mike for the info and the coupon link (worth $25 off). :thumbsup:
My front A/C is on our inverter circuit. I asked AM Solar to wire it that way so I could play with trying to run it on inverter when driving down the road. I didn't have any luck doing that with the old Penguin - as soon as the compressor tried to start the inverter would kick off due to overload. So I gave up on the idea.
The same thing happens with the new Atwood unit. Yesterday we lost power to our house, and to the coach 50A outlet. A big main line circuit breaker or something blew and took out our whole neighborhood. I had both Atwoods running at the time. Soon as we lost power I went out to check the coach, and the inverter was off. Not a good situation with our fully stocked Samsung fridge.
SO, I figure it won't hurt anything to try the soft start module on the front Atwood and see what happens. If our Magnum MS2812 will tolerate the "softer" starting compressor draw and stay on line, that would be nice. Would help during future power outages at the house, AND I could also try (again) running the front A/C on inverter when driving. Be nice to have front A/C without running the generator.
We'll see how it goes when it arrives and I get it installed.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: jcus on August 16, 2019, 10:25:45 pm
I ordered one EasyStart 364 to give it a try. Thanx to Rudy, Jim C. and Mike for the info and the coupon link (worth $25 off). :thumbsup:
My front A/C is on our inverter circuit. I asked AM Solar to wire it that way so I could play with trying to run it on inverter when driving down the road. I didn't have any luck doing that with the old Penguin - as soon as the compressor tried to start the inverter would kick off due to overload. So I gave up on the idea.
The same thing happens with the new Atwood unit. Yesterday we lost power to our house, and to the coach 50A outlet. A big main line circuit breaker or something blew and took out our whole neighborhood. I had both Atwoods running at the time. Soon as we lost power I went out to check the coach, and the inverter was off. Not a good situation with our fully stocked Samsung fridge.
SO, I figure it won't hurt anything to try the soft start module on the front Atwood and see what happens. If our Magnum MS2812 will tolerate the "softer" starting compressor draw and stay on line, that would be nice. Would help during future power outages at the house, AND I could also try (again) running the front A/C on inverter when driving. Be nice to have front A/C without running the generator.
We'll see how it goes when it arrives and I get it installed.
You should do fine, my old prosine 2500 handled my 15000 btu penguin 2 with no problem. Just remember that's 150+ amps for one ac, plus fridge and whatever else you have running. I used an IR gun on all my cables and connections, when ac running and found some hot spots I had to redo. Keep eye on alternator. Even with 80 amps from solar, it got to 180 f. trying to keep up, before I shut it down. I plan on going to 240 amp unit.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 16, 2019, 10:28:48 pm
Yes, I certainly don't want to burn anything up. It would not be something I would try for extended periods - more just as a "science experiment" to play around with. If it doesn't work out - no big deal. Always got the generator to fall back on.
Plus, might give me a good excuse to upgrade my old alternator, which is lookin' kinda crusty...
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: DavidS on August 16, 2019, 10:35:47 pm
Started chasing wires for the removal of the old AC on my 02 U320... Anyone know what wires are for the aqua hot and will any thermostat work for it (as a stand alone)? I found a green (ground) and white one I think... Back of the thermostat is a phone plug... so figuring it is controlled off the dometic board.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: craneman on August 16, 2019, 10:41:28 pm
The bathroom zone uses a standard thermostat on mine for the Aqua Hot. Would think all zones could be controlled by one.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: DavidS on August 16, 2019, 10:42:53 pm
The bathroom zone uses a standard thermostat on mine for the Aqua Hot. Would think all zones could be controlled by one.
Didnt think of that ... would like something more current than 60's technology
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: DavidS on August 16, 2019, 10:55:37 pm
Pretty sure I read... someones swap... cant remember if it was on here or Irv2 or something.... integration is the problem.. need to figure out the aguahot thermostat controls and how the front and back will connect with adding the rear air thermostat in the bedroom.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Tim Fiedler on August 17, 2019, 01:03:02 am
I can't speak to the easy start, but I can speak to Sure Start performance. Look up the LRA (locked rotor amps) for the AC unit. With a Sure Start take that LRA value x .4 to get resulting LRA after installing Sure Start ( I suspect Easy Start is similar). We guarantee a 60% reduction in LRA with the Sure Start (usually closer to 65% reduction in the real world). So 60% lowering of LRA leaves 40% of the original LRA. Hence the equation of original LRA x .4 = New LRA after installing a soft starter.
The LRA is what will trip your inverter offline, after the unit is running the inverter will (very likely) easily handle the RLA (run load amps), but that is worth checking as well to be sure.
To calculate if your inverter will likely start the AC with EasyStart or SureStart, measure your "back-round" load (amps) when not running the AC on the inverter. Add the LRA amps to the back-round amps to get total (surge) amps. Take that amp value x 120 (your voltage) to get (surge) watts. See how close the "surge watts" are to your inverter surge watt capability and it will let you know if the inverter has a chance of starting the roof AC. IF your batteries are not at 100% that will effect the inverter surge amp capacity negatively. If you are running the coach engine (going down the road) and the alternator is supplying charge to the batteries that will effect the surge capability in a slightly positive way.
The compressor start should be approximately 300 milliseconds, with a soft starter like surestart or easy start that will increase that 300 milliseconds a bit, but no more than a max of 500 milliseconds (1/2 second), so that is why the surge capability of your inverter is what is important, not the running capacity.
I sell the SureStarts (so they are free to me) and have a 3000 watt victron inverter - but havent been inclined to put them on because it just doesn't make sense to me to worry about not running the generator going down the road. (Hell, usually if I have to run one roof air to keep the 40' bus cool, I need both of them to do that anyway)
As for running your AC off the batteries while boon-docking, if you look at the RLA on the AC, you will see even with a BUNCH of solar on the roof, the AC compressor will drag your house batteries down at a pretty ugly rate, making this impractical in our coaches. (FWIW, Tesla Powerwalls will not run an AC on their system unless the customer has three power-wall units minimum. And then they put a SureStart on each AC the client wants to run off the power-wall. (Yes, we sell the SureStarts to Tesla for their installs.))
On the other hand, putting two soft starters on a coach with two roof AC's might make some sense, because if you were careful about what else you had on your 120V load, you likely could run two roof airs on a single 30 AMP circuit. (I may get around to putting them on someday for that purpose.) The other veery good use case is if you want to run a single roof air off a Honda 2000i inverter generator, the easy start or Surestart will allow that to work no problem.
Let us know what your findings!
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: jcus on August 17, 2019, 01:26:48 am
I can't speak to the easy start, but I can speak to Sure Start performance. Look up the LRA (locked rotor amps) for the AC unit. With a Sure Start take that LRA value x .4 to get resulting LRA after installing Sure Start ( I suspect Easy Start is similar). We guarantee a 60% reduction in LRA with the Sure Start (usually closer to 65% reduction in the real world). So 60% lowering of LRA leaves 40% of the original LRA. Hence the equation of original LRA x .4 = New LRA after installing a soft starter.
The LRA is what will trip your inverter offline, after the unit is running the inverter will (very likely) easily handle the RLA (run load amps), but that is worth checking as well to be sure.
To calculate if your inverter will likely start the AC with EasyStart or SureStart, measure your "back-round" load (amps) when not running the AC on the inverter. Add the LRA amps to the back-round amps to get total (surge) amps. Take that amp value x 120 (your voltage) to get (surge) watts. See how close the "surge watts" are to your inverter surge watt capability and it will let you know if the inverter has a chance of starting the roof AC. IF your batteries are not at 100% that will effect the inverter surge amp capacity negatively. If you are running the coach engine (going down the road) and the alternator is supplying charge to the batteries that will effect the surge capability in a slightly positive way.
The compressor start should be approximately 300 milliseconds, with a soft starter like surestart or easy start that will increase that 300 milliseconds a bit, but no more than a max of 500 milliseconds (1/2 second), so that is why the surge capability of your inverter is what is important, not the running capacity.
I sell the SureStarts (so they are free to me) and have a 3000 watt victron inverter - but havent been inclined to put them on because it just doesn't make sense to me to worry about not running the generator going down the road. (Hell, usually if I have to run one roof air to keep the 40' bus cool, I need both of them to do that anyway)
As for running your AC off the batteries while boon-docking, if you look at the RLA on the AC, you will see even with a BUNCH of solar on the roof, the AC compressor will drag your house batteries down at a pretty ugly rate, making this impractical in our coaches. (FWIW, Tesla Powerwalls will not run an AC on their system unless the customer has three power-wall units minimum. And then they put a SureStart on each AC the client wants to run off the power-wall. (Yes, we sell the SureStarts to Tesla for their installs.))
On the other hand, putting two soft starters on a coach with two roof AC's might make some sense, because if you were careful about what else you had on your 120V load, you likely could run two roof airs on a single 30 AMP circuit. (I may get around to putting them on someday for that purpose.) The other veery good use case is if you want to run a single roof air off a Honda 2000i inverter generator, the easy start or Surestart will allow that to work no problem.
Let us know what your findings!
Tim, kind of hard to find a SureStart website, but when I did, it only mentioned 220 volt. Do you have a link for 110 volt models? Sure Start SS1B08-16SN (8-16 RLA) – Ziller Electric (https://www.zillerelectric.com/products/sure-start-soft-start-single-phase-unit-handles-8-16-fla-230vac-in-stock) BTW, have ducted air over the cockpit on my coach, and if I close bathroom door, fwd ac will keep me pretty cool. Normally dash air will work okay, but when 95+ need the roof air.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Tim Fiedler on August 17, 2019, 01:43:27 am
Single Phase 115v (12-20 RLA) | sure-start (http://www.gen-pro.biz/product-page/single-phase-115v-12-20-rla)
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: jcus on August 17, 2019, 01:52:13 am
Single Phase 115v (12-20 RLA) | sure-start (http://www.gen-pro.biz/product-page/single-phase-115v-12-20-rla)
Thanks Tim, bit cheaper than the Easy Start, you need to step up the advertising budget. :D :D Big market out there.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: John Morales on August 20, 2019, 11:55:58 pm
Once we arrive to Florida this fall we are going to take the leap with the Furion AC. Supposedly they integrate well with the Dometic Thermostat. John M.
Review of Furrion RV Air Conditioners - Standard Air Conditioner - FACR14SA-B... (https://youtu.be/2KwyN5r8GYA)
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: GleamB on August 21, 2019, 08:38:59 am
Keep us informed, John. With the demise of Atwood, I am now very interested in these units. Hope they work well for you. I am most interested in how the control box for the a/c and Aqua Hot are integrated, and what, if any, wiring changes have to be made. Thanks
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: DavidS on August 21, 2019, 09:36:01 am
My only issue with Furrion was they have no heat.. The Atwood was pretty simple ( easier than I made it) and they work very well.. seem to cool and are quite.. Will test them next weekend at Zion for Labor day.. Integration was simple and they work as easy as the old Duo Therms
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: jor on August 21, 2019, 10:03:41 am
I'm thinking about getting one of those Atwoods before they disappear. Just one question: Do the regular covers like these fit or is it necessary to buy new ones? Thanks. jor
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: DavidS on August 21, 2019, 10:46:45 am
I'm thinking about getting one of those Atwoods before they disappear. Just one question: Do the regular covers like these fit or is it necessary to buy new ones? Thanks. jor
Totally different
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 21, 2019, 10:56:35 am
I'm thinking about getting one of those Atwoods before they disappear. Just one question: Do the regular covers like these fit or is it necessary to buy new ones? Thanks. jor
Photos of the Atwood shell in post linked below (Reply #16)
Help - Down AC in Desin Fl. (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=37482.msg360400#msg360400)
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: John Morales on August 21, 2019, 01:46:07 pm
Keep us informed, John. With the demise of Atwood, I am now very interested in these units. Hope they work well for you. I am most interested in how the control box for the a/c and Aqua Hot are integrated, and what, if any, wiring changes have to be made. Thanks
Glenn, If you check out the video on my previous post it shows you how it comes with the Dometic plug installed ready to be plugged in. They also make a unit with the Coleman setup. They also explain the specs and it looks like it already has the soft start built into the unit. John M.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: jor on August 21, 2019, 03:22:27 pm
Just ordered the Atwood. It's warmish down here and my two 22 year old A/Cs are running day and night. I'll be ready when one of them craps out. Kinda funny. This is actually the second one I've bought. A few years ago, during my short duration GMC ownership (six weeks) I bought one but I gave it to the guy that bought the GMC. jor
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Don & Tys on August 21, 2019, 03:40:20 pm
I much prefer the lowest possible profile and hope that the OEM 13K BTU units with heat pumps keep on keeping on. There are possible low profile replacement options, but the one that sounds best to me design wise and touted as being extremely quiet is seems ridiculously priced and not widely available. Here is a link with some detail on the construction. It is a two fan unit and looks very well put together and supposedly 15db quieter than the typical unit, but they want close to 3K for them. The Nuts and Bolts of the Quiet Air Conditioner - YouTube (https://youtu.be/2zQkBDPOLW4) Don
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 21, 2019, 03:57:15 pm
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Don & Tys on August 21, 2019, 04:04:23 pm
He he... Why not? Oh well, not an issue until one of these quit. Hoping that there will be more options by then. Besides, they are very short on the technical specs for these units (as in none!). I don't trust that what isn't explicitly stated doesn't matter. Don
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Ted & Karen on August 21, 2019, 05:10:45 pm
I am going to throw out a wild idea, maybe someone much more technical than I am will pick it up and run with it? I have read some articles about using mini-split units in rv's, bus conversion, etc. Supposedly much better cooling, less noise, much less power consumption, etc. Seems like a winner except how/where to install the compressor which is separate from the inside unit. Reasonable costs too.
Just another thing to think about as our units get older and more things need replacing/upgrading. ^.^d
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: barndog on August 21, 2019, 05:38:16 pm
I ordered my Atwood directly from Dometic Corp. They told me that they have 200 units left. You will also need the control panel with remote control, much better in my opinion.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: craneman on August 21, 2019, 05:40:48 pm
I am going to throw out a wild idea, maybe someone much more technical than I am will pick it up and run with it? I have read some articles about using mini-split units in rv's, bus conversion, etc. Supposedly much better cooling, less noise, much less power consumption, etc. Seems like a winner except how/where to install the compressor which is separate from the inside unit. Reasonable costs too.
Just another thing to think about as our units get older and more things need replacing/upgrading. ^.^d
I think the GV's are the only ones that you could make work because of the nose area to put the condenser. I think there was conversation in posts on it.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: John Morales on August 21, 2019, 08:45:57 pm
My only issue with Furrion was they have no heat.. The Atwood was pretty simple ( easier than I made it) and they work very well.. seem to cool and are quite.. Will test them next weekend at Zion for Labor day.. Integration was simple and they work as easy as the old Duo Therms
David, Yes it would be nice to have the heat pumps but this forces me to use the Aqua Hot and not rely on the heat pumps. John M
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: floridarandy on August 21, 2019, 11:10:00 pm
The "Quiet RV Air Conditioner" from what I can find online is an Australian unit being imported and installed in a 120v version by Advanced RV in Cleveland. ($2700ish installed at their factory or $2100ish plus shipping and you install). Here are the specs on the unit from an Australian seller. Comes in 2 different models.
Houghton Belaire HB3200 Caravan Air conditioner - Pilgrims' Caravan & RV Parts (https://caravanandrvparts.com.au/product/houghton-belaire-hb3200/)
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Old phart phred on August 22, 2019, 01:45:48 am
I would not consider this as a reliable source, do your homework well in regards to the voltage and hertz. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary eveidence. Physics are physics, and you simply cannot tweak or supertune a RV a/c units in it's current form factor/size.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 22, 2019, 09:16:00 am
Should form follow function? That is the question. Some want their roof air conditioners to be low, sleek, and as inconspicuous as possible.
Others want maximum efficiency - style be damned. Are the two disparate goals attainable in one single form factor?
As I understand it, you have to move lots of air through the condenser to effectively shed the heat being removed from inside the coach. When I look at the two roof unit "shell" designs in the photos below, I find it hard to believe that they can both allow the same volume of air flow through the condenser. I'm no expert, but...BIG hole versus small hole...right?
Each A/C buyer must decide what is most important to THEM, then buy the unit that comes closest to making them happy.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Don & Tys on August 22, 2019, 10:44:40 pm
In my view, form should follow function. I just don't don't know whether the traditional designs are anywhere close to optimized. I don't have any dogs in this hunt right now, so no incentive at this point to delve into it other than a superficial curiosity. I hope that is true for at least the near term because I have much on the project list that could represent quite a few coach bucks. That said, all of the unconditioned air as well as the conditioned air has to go through the same approx. 14"X14" hole in the roof. The Houghton Belaire 3400 A/C that I linked to is about 8 ¾" high (roughly the same as our current Dometic Penguins, if I am not mistaken), and about 44 ⅛" long by 34 ½" wide as compared to the Atwood's 39" long x 26-1/2" wide x 14-1/2" tall. So though the Atwood is almost 6" taller, it is shorter in length by 5" and narrower in width by 8". Still, even though from the function standpoint, the Atwood is likely superior to the Dometic Penguin, they won't be an option for long except maybe for new old stock if they can be found at all. If I was looking right now for a replacement, that wouldn't necessarily deter me. Heck I bought a NOS Atwood two stage furnace for our coach because I couldn't find a better option at the time we needed it. No warranty, no returns. So far, that has worked out. In the case of the furnace, pretty much all of the failure mode parts are still obtainable and I feel confident that I could fix it if necessary. From the video I watched, the Houghton Belaire has a more impressive build quality than what I saw on our Dometics when I changed the capacitors and replaced the covers on them. I don't doubt that the 25 year old design of the Dometics couldn't be improved on. I don't know nearly enough about the these Australian or European built units to gage whether they are the real deal, or whether the provenance of the 120VAC 60Hz conversion from the European/Australian 240VAC 50Hz is something I would trust, or even what the key elements of the engineering approach used in their design is. Maybe in a few years (if our OEM units last that long), I will look into and just maybe, they will have more of a presence in our US market. Or maybe their presence here will spur Dometic and the rest to raise their game... but not holding my breath. Likely Dometic would buy them out and kill their product like they did with Atwood's innovative Helium absorption fridge, their Excalibur XT two stage furnace, and now the Atwood A/C's. Don
Should form follow function? That is the question. Some want their roof air conditioners to be low, sleek, and as inconspicuous as possible.
Others want maximum efficiency - style be damned. Are the two disparate goals attainable in one single form factor?
As I understand it, you have to move lots of air through the condenser to effectively shed the heat being removed from inside the coach. When I look at the two roof unit "shell" designs in the photos below, I find it hard to believe that they can both allow the same volume of air flow through the condenser. I'm no expert, but...BIG hole versus small hole...right?
Each A/C buyer must decide what is most important to THEM, then buy the unit that comes closest to making them happy.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: MisterEd on August 25, 2019, 01:52:04 pm
Here's a good article on HVAC motors: What you need to know about electric motors in HVAC systems (http://www.hpacmag.com/features/electric-motors-hvac-equipment/) I'm going to try and squeeze a few more years from our original Penguins, in hopes that 120V inverter rooftop units, that I can easily run off the PV/ house batteries/inverter, are readily available when we're ready for (or forced into) an upgrade. It would be great to see a company with experience manufacturing inverter drive appliances (Samsung comes to mind) jump into the market. Produce one efficient model, en mass, to keep the pricing reasonable. Another area that needs attention on these rooftop unit is airflow management. Based on the units I've seen, the engineers really need to learn about laminar airflow, and apply it to their designs. On our Penguins, and Duo Therms on the SOB, the intake air has two major (an abrupt) changes in velocity between the grill and evaporator coil. The discharge side isn't much better. This not only creates additional noise, but is very inefficient.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 25, 2019, 02:35:48 pm
Greg,
I share your hopes for better design and technology in this area...someday.
I agree with Don (above) when he points out how the "conditioned" and "non-conditioned" air must be forced through the same 14" square hole, and how this compromises function. Why does every manufacturer keep building to this archaic mounting standard? Because no company wants to rock the boat? Why doesn't some company step up and say "We need to change the way we mount air conditioner components in/on RVs". Surely sticking a big box on the RV roof can't be the best idea we can come up with...
I personally wish, along with many on this Forum, for air conditioner units built more along the "ductless mini split" design. Once you separate the two halves of the system, your mounting options really increase. All we need is for the motorhome builders to provide a suitable location for the outside compressor/condenser module, so it wouldn't look "added on", and where air flow through the coils could be optimized. The inside evaporator/air handler modules would be easy (I would think) to incorporate into the existing interior layouts. One module could even take the place of the "automotive" dash air unit.
Then, if the inverter drive technology could be built into the outside compressor unit, we could run the whole shebang on (big) batteries!
However, until something better comes along, we're stuck with roof warts.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Rudy on August 25, 2019, 02:52:30 pm
One thing I noticed in our Attwoods is a duct work in the interior mounting plate that secures the roof unit on that smoothly changes the downward moving cool air to evenly split fore and aft horizontally moving air. So, some thought in that unit to directing air flow.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Protech Racing on August 25, 2019, 03:45:26 pm
The inside chunk of the minisplit still needs to shed the water somehow. Thats why I see it best mounted in the nose firewall, dripping on the ground , pushing air up my skirt. Mounted overhead forces a drain engineering of some kind. The current method drains the unit onto the roof . We have accepted that as the norm .
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 25, 2019, 03:56:00 pm
Just build vertical drain tubes into all the exterior walls. Space them out at 12"-16" intervals. The inside air handlers (mounted on the walls) would connect to the nearest tube - dump the water on the ground. EXCEPT IN KALIFORNIA!!!!
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: John Morales on August 25, 2019, 04:00:29 pm
It would be nice if we could use these mini splits with the ceiling register. We could put the ceiling register in the 14" opening and route the lines through the ceiling duct all the way to the back. Then we can mount the outdoor unit on the rear in place of the ladder. Nothing on the roof. Just make a cover for the roof top holes. Now to get the right power. Do we need to upgrade our electrical and generator? Our generator is capable of producing 240v with the correct regulator. John M.
Pioneer® 12,000 BTU 21.5 SEER 8-Way Compact Cassette Mini-Split Air Co –... (https://www.pioneerminisplit.com/products/12-000-btu-21-5-seer-8-way-compact-cassette-mini-split-air-conditioner-heat-pump-system-full-set?variant=35778977872¤cy=USD&gclid=CjwKCAjw44jrBRAHEiwAZ9igKA5eLZgPs4udd5g3ETj588gc27EQyu8gILHMPRDG7d-Ul3rW-Y1_IhoCpPsQAvD_BwE)
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: jcus on August 25, 2019, 04:15:13 pm
Problem with 208-220 volt units, can't use them if you only have 30 amp service at a campground.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: jcus on August 25, 2019, 11:01:00 pm
But these may work, just have to find a good place for the evaporator and condenser units. Ductless Split Air Conditioning | Heating System | DC Inverter – Pioneer... (https://www.pioneerminisplit.com/products/12-000-btu-ductless-dc-inverter-mini-split-air-conditioner-heat-pump-115-vac?variant=14703001534506¤cy=USD&gclid=Cjw)
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Old phart phred on August 26, 2019, 12:44:34 am
They can be built, and they can be efficient and somewhat less noisy. Pod size on the roof would have to increase. I don't think anybody would mind that. big ? Is would you pay even $1800 per unit. Samsung or LG are not interested in 10-15,000 units a year if that as IDK how big the rv market actually is.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on August 28, 2019, 09:47:57 am
Chuck, I did, they called me back today and offered a black covered unit.....not for us. They also mentioned once the stock (black units) are depleted there will be no more.
H
I ordered 2 units the other day from them. They said they were white. I asked specifically about it. But even if they are black, I will paint the covers and be happy with them. The next one up, the Coleman mach 15, is 900 plus and I need 2.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: DavidS on August 28, 2019, 10:04:39 am
I have to say.. never expected the Atwood to be so quiet.. cant hardly hear it on high and the air it moves is unreal..
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Hans&Marjet on August 28, 2019, 10:17:37 am
I ordered 2 units the other day from them. They said they were white. I asked specifically about it. But even if they are black, I will paint the covers and be happy with them. The next one up, the Coleman mach 15, is 900 plus and I need 2.
Strange....they said no white units anymore...I reordered the black units and received 1 from Goshen IN yesterday and the other is coming today from Dometic in TX
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: jor on August 28, 2019, 10:16:15 pm
Quote
Strange....they said no white units anymore...I reordered the black units and received 1
Pretty funny. I couldn't find a black one so my white one arrived yesterday and I will paint it black! jor
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: MisterEd on August 28, 2019, 10:37:54 pm
I have to say.. never expected the Atwood to be so quiet.. cant hardly hear it on high and the air it moves is unreal..
Maybe due, in part, to what Rudy said: "One thing I noticed in our Attwoods is a duct work in the interior mounting plate that secures the roof unit on that smoothly changes the downward moving cool air to evenly split fore and aft horizontally moving air. So, some thought in that unit to directing air flow."
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Hans&Marjet on August 29, 2019, 05:45:26 pm
Frank, I will be very interested in your findings.
They also state the compressor has a soft start feature, no current spike (70 amp) and hard hum as the compressor starts.
I put a soft start on my Attwoods. You can not hear compressor start, instead of my clamp on amp meter reading nearly lock rotor current spike, it starts at 2 amps, then 6 and finally get to 14.
Thanks for giving one a go.
Hi Rudy, Well I picked the coach up yesterday and the service manager did the walk through with me. I'm happy with the level of service at this Bellevue NE location and will be back for more service at their level. The Furrion (non ducted), the interior functions of the Furrion are less than impressive. No remote thermostat, it's all on the bottom of the unit, analog dials, impossible to read at night or after a couple of drinks without turning on the lights and getting my glasses. Ok I couldn't read the old slide thermostat either but I knew left was more cold/right was less cold. What I do like is the soft start vs the old HAMMER start. It would seriously make the entire coach rock. The new unit is also MUCH quieter than the old unit while running and you can shut the airflow off to the rear side by shutting that vent. Shutting off the rear vent means the air isn't blowing in my face when I sleep and it forces more air forward into the hallway. Wasn't an option on the old unit. Inside footprint is smaller than the original so I now have to get the carpet cleaner out and scrub those areas. Maybe there are other model Furrions that have more options. It does seem to cool the air better and move more air than the old unit. This unit is in and paid for so we'll keep it. It is an improvement over the old unit, just not what I would have preferred in our rolling cabin. The unit we have would look better and be more at home in a travel trailer. True test comes in a few days when we hit the road for a couple of weeks. Cheers!
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 30, 2019, 10:43:49 am
...you can shut the airflow off to the rear side by shutting that vent. Shutting off the rear vent means the air isn't blowing in my face when I sleep and it forces more air forward into the hallway. Wasn't an option on the old unit.
Thanks for the "early" review. Perhaps you can add to it after you get some more time playing with the unit in different conditions.
Being able to shut off the rear facing vent is a valuable feature. It is not available on the Atwood - I touched on this fact in my review of same. I found I was able to "get used" to the air blowing down on my head when sleeping, but would like the option to shut it off (DW does not mind it). Of course, a piece of duct tape would accomplish the same thing, but looks kinda tacky (ha, ha....get it....tape = tacky).
We also had to clean off a little of the ceiling "shadow" from the old units. Carpet cleaner took it right off the wooly Ozite material.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on August 30, 2019, 10:52:16 am
Ordered one of the easy starts to to on my front ac new attwood unit. Its hooked up via the inverter so that should work well. I might go with a 2nd one for the rear later on.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 30, 2019, 10:54:49 am
Ordered one of the easy starts to to on my front ac new attwood unit. Its hooked up via the inverter so that should work well. I might go with a 2nd one for the rear later on.
Take photos of the installation and post a report for those who follow. I have a EasyStart sitting on my bench but waiting for cooler weather.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Rudy on August 30, 2019, 11:59:22 am
Frank, Thanks a bunch for the report. All the best.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Hans&Marjet on August 30, 2019, 12:09:46 pm
When installing these 2 Atwood units will I need 12V power supply at the unit along with 110V ?
Thx
Hans
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 30, 2019, 01:16:47 pm
Atwoods are mounted and humming along.....Wowwwww....nice and quiet compared to the Penquins. They cool much quicker.
Should have done this sooner.
Hans
Same thing I said.. unreal how quite they are and work great.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on September 11, 2019, 09:49:15 pm
Yes I got mine going today and they are way quieter than the old units both inside the coach and outside. I had to go on the roof today to put the cover on and even with the cover off they were very quiet you can't hear him from the ground. Great units. Now if I can only get my aqua hot to work with them that would be fantastic.
Title: Re: Atwood 15K A/c unit
Post by: sfbmwwife on September 13, 2019, 12:29:17 pm
So we ended up ordering the Atwood 15k black units from the 12V store and installed them with minimal fighting. I love the quiet fan compared to our old units, especially in the bedroom.