Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: coastalbuilder on August 19, 2019, 02:11:55 pm

Title: Tire Brands
Post by: coastalbuilder on August 19, 2019, 02:11:55 pm
Following up on my sidewall blow-out and the various responses and opinions I decided to start looking at other brands.  My local truck tire dealer said he has had some try various brands other than Michelin.  He said they have had various results.  But he said a few have put Falken's on with good results.  They are $225 less per tire.  We all know Michelin is very proud of their rubber and have to pay for a lot of advertising.  A lot.  I could only find one or two threads on Falken's and they were old threads.  Any opinions on other brands including Falken's?
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Dub on August 19, 2019, 02:30:00 pm
Never heard of them and thought I had bought everything on the market. May be something new or just one I missed.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Protech Racing on August 19, 2019, 03:01:52 pm
I have run falkens o. N. Race cars.  Great quality.
Smart fon
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 19, 2019, 03:19:14 pm
Uniroyal RS20.  Made in a Michelin factory, sell for much less...

Hanging At Camp FOT (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=33952.msg310838#msg310838)
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: MAZ on August 19, 2019, 03:56:29 pm
I am on my second set of Bridgestone tires. First ones were R280's which have been replaced by R283's. I think the newest ones are R283A. This is the only kind I have ever had experience with the coach riding on. The first set were around 8 years old and still looked like new. They seem to ride well to me.

Mark
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 19, 2019, 04:03:24 pm
Double Coin (China and Thailand) gets good reviews in the trucking industry. Double Coin Completes New Manufacturing Plant in Thailand | Double Coin Tires (https://www.doublecointires.com/news/double-coin-completes-new-manufacturing-plant-in-thailand/)
Types: Truck & Bus Tires, Light Truck Tires | Double Coin Tires (https://www.doublecointires.com/tires/truck-bus/?position=steer)


GreenMax also gets good reviews. Made in Thailand. About $200 for a steer tire. Prices for all brands at: https://www.ustireoutlet.com/products

Pierce



Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 19, 2019, 04:34:20 pm
I looked into the Uniroyals on Rudy's advice but they don't make them in a 275/80R22.5.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: bigdog on August 19, 2019, 04:36:50 pm
As for the trucking industry being happy with a certain tire. That must be looked at with a very discerning eye.
I was an owner/operator for 10 years at FedEx. I owned the the tractor but pulled FedEx owned trailers. So the issue was that FedEx did not align their trailers axles. So any dog legging of the trailer was corrected with "my" steering wheel. No matter what brand of tire I bought. I would only get 60-70K miles.  But got 250K miles on the twin screw drive axle tires.

So the trucking industry thinks, Did we get 60-70K and not have blowouts on that super cheap Chinese tire? If Yes. Then It's a ringing endorsement. That is why I ran cheaper tires on my steer axle and stuck with the Michelin block tread drives. It was the money.

In some 1.5 Million miles. Never did have a blow out or even a flat on my tractor and only one blowout on a FedEx trailer tire.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 19, 2019, 04:47:07 pm
I looked into the Uniroyals on Rudy's advice but they don't make them in a 275/80R22.5.
That's interesting!  I have six 275/80R22.5 LRH Uniroyal RS20 tires on my coach sitting in my driveway.  ???

Uniroyal Truck Tire Selector | Uniroyal Truck Tires (https://www.uniroyaltrucktires.com/tires/selector/info/rs20)
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: defendertx on August 19, 2019, 05:00:43 pm
I just put six new BF Goodrich 275/80 R22.5's on my 40 ft. 1995 U280.  Herman Power did the installation.  I spoke with them at some length about what would be the right tires.  These particular tires are made from the exact molds that Michelin used on the original tires shipped by Foretravel for this RV - or so I'm told (I'm no expert).  What I can say is that run nicer than the admittedly quite old Toyo's that were on my coach before.  However, I'm not the best person to gauge ride handling, other than to say they "feel" really nice.

I selected these tires based on how I use the coach - will be putting about 8,000 miles a year on it on mostly normal highway conditions.  Based on how I use them, and that I don't overload my coach, these tires should "age out" (be past their safe expiration date) before they ever come close to wearing out the tread. 
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: John and Stacey on August 19, 2019, 05:11:54 pm
We have 6 Toyo 295/75, M177, H rated tires and get a great ride and no issues.
John
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 19, 2019, 05:19:24 pm
I looked into the Uniroyals on Rudy's advice but they don't make them in a 275/80R22.5.
295/75R22.5 is the same diameter as 275/80R225, just different aspect ratio. Any slight difference may also be found in brands.

Pierce

Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Dakota Slim on August 19, 2019, 06:02:41 pm
I've had Toyo's on my coach for 3.5 years and am very happy with them.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: cubesphere on August 19, 2019, 06:08:47 pm
Toyo M 170, great handling steer, 2 years, still like new.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: bigdog on August 19, 2019, 06:09:01 pm
295/75R22.5 is the same diameter as 275/80R225, just different aspect ratio. Any slight difference may also be found in brands.

Pierce


I found the extra width has the tire touching the lower bag mount on sharp wheel turns (very low speeds) MOT said not a worry when they installed my new bags with the hard plastic supports in March 2019.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 19, 2019, 06:55:45 pm
I found the extra width has the tire touching the lower bag mount on sharp wheel turns (very low speeds) MOT said not a worry when they installed my new bags with the hard plastic supports in March 2019.
Ours has done that since the day we purchased it. Gives a nice shiny look to a small spot on the bottom metal plate but never touches the bag. Since that is the forward bag, the tire is coming down when it touches. Just not a factor at all. I've learned to comb my hair in my reflection.

Pierce
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Caflashbob on August 19, 2019, 07:39:10 pm
The Michelin's straight across steel "x" design and the thinner sidewalls have the most "feel" when you drive the coach.

Go straight. Directional sipes.  Turn well.  Quiet.  500 pounds more capacity allowing lower tire pressure by 10 pounds for better ride on my concrete block freeways in so cal.

Every uni made had them on oem.  Where are they made?

Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: NancyS on August 19, 2019, 08:43:29 pm
Anyone using Aurora AH37 (Hankook) tires
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Ted & Karen on August 19, 2019, 08:54:49 pm
Nancy- I have Aurora UF03 on my rear- just had them put on so only have maybe 2000 miles on them so far.  Good specs and good price- private label from Hankook.          ^.^d
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: coastprt on August 19, 2019, 09:35:10 pm
I just put a set of Hankook AL07+ long haul steer tires on and like the ride and handling.  Time will tell if they can match the ride quality and durability of the Michelins I just replaced. I don't have that many miles yet but I have already seen some mpg gain over the old Michelins on a similar trip measured with my Pro-Link Trip Data. This video helped me make up my mind when researching.

Jerry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=zi0_nxj5g5Q
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 19, 2019, 11:17:23 pm
Korea makes first class cars with Kia and Hyundai so not unexpected that they would produce good tires. What did your Pro-Link show for mileage? Toad?

Pierce
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: bigdog on August 20, 2019, 01:30:41 am
Ours has done that since the day we purchased it. Gives a nice shiny look to a small spot on the bottom metal plate but never touches the bag. Since that is the forward bag, the tire is coming down when it touches. Just not a factor at all. I've learned to comb my hair in my reflection.

Pierce
Agreed. I'm not concerned in the least.
Hair you say. What's that?
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: kimosabe99 on August 20, 2019, 12:44:43 pm
That's interesting!  I have six 275/80R22.5 LRH Uniroyal RS20 tires on my coach sitting in my driveway.  ???

Uniroyal Truck Tire Selector | Uniroyal Truck Tires (https://www.uniroyaltrucktires.com/tires/selector/info/rs20)

Me too!

jk
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: fkjohns6083 on August 20, 2019, 01:35:30 pm
Every one has their favorites, mine are YOKOHAMAs.  Several reasons, ride, cornering, quiet,  no problems in many years.  They are not the cheapest out there, but the extra cost is well warranted.  Have a great day  ----  Fritz
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Caflashbob on August 20, 2019, 03:21:02 pm
I looked at the uniroyals but the close to 120 psi required for my front axle loads versus the Michelin's at 97 kill my already bad ride quality here in worn concrete block so cal freeways.

Smooth roads,  120 psi is no problem.  Different problem here
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: bigdog on August 20, 2019, 05:27:48 pm
here in worn concrete block so cal freeways.
That sir is an understatement. I thought I was driving the Ho Chei Minh trail after a visit from a squadron of B-52's.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 20, 2019, 06:23:26 pm
I looked at the uniroyals but the close to 120 psi required for my front axle loads versus the Michelin's at 97 kill my already bad ride quality here in worn concrete block so cal freeways.
Smooth roads,  120 psi is no problem.  Different problem here
Perhaps that's why the Michelins have a zipper in the side. Let out the air if over 97 psi.

Living and driving in California, we run 110 psi all around with fairly stiff sidewalls but other than an occasional annoyance on some of our highways, it's not a problem. I've driven worse roads in some other western states and even Texas after turning off I-40 at Santa Rosa in NM and traveling toward Lubbock on 84. Muleshoe and a couple other small towns were terrible. Roads through the Navajo Nation can be really bad too.

Pierce
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 21, 2019, 08:53:09 pm
If those Asian tires require less PSI than my Contis then I'm going to give them a try on the steers.  I just beat my brains out in PA, NY and CT.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Sven and Kristi on August 22, 2019, 01:10:35 am
We had a bad experience with a nearly new Michelin tire a couple of years age and worse experience with their customer service afterward which I wrote about on this site.  I attached a photo of a one year old tire (to the day) with less than 3,000 miles.  I won't be buying Michelins again.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 22, 2019, 10:20:20 am
That's interesting!  I have six 275/80R22.5 LRH Uniroyal RS20 tires on my coach sitting in my driveway.

I now realize that it wasn't availablity but tire pressure that deterred me from getting the Uniroyals. My steer axle weighs almost 13,000 lbs and I'm running the minimum PSI for my Continentals, which is 110lbs.

I just beat my brains out up in the Northeast and need a better ride. I'm on my cell now but when I get my laptop hooked up I'm going to look for either a 275/80R22.5(H) or a 295/75R22.5(H)  that requires less PSI than the Contis. The only ones I've seen so far are Michelin's requiring 10PSI less.

Hillbilly Deluxe is only a 36' coach, but I'm assuming that the 40' coaches weigh more on the steer axle,  so what PSI are y'all running,  what brand of tires and how's the ride over washboard roads?

When we picked our coach up the PO admittedly only ran 85lbs in the front and had done so since new.  The tires were Michelins and timed out so I replaced them with Continentals. 

When we were in Florida two years ago I went hunting for an accurate tire gauge and ended up buying an adjustable one from NAPA. I took it to a tire shop and had it calibrated using their air chuck that was labeled 100PSI
and only used for calibration. We drove home shortly after that with 110lbs in the front tires using the newly
calibrated gauge and had a smooth ride. But when I got home and used the Parker Wilkerson gauge that is accurate to plus or minus 1lb at 150lbs I found the tires to be at only 95lbs.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 22, 2019, 10:36:15 am
Different brands have different construction so may offer a softer or harder ride. Worn or damaged shocks can also make a big difference. Today's premium shocks are progressive so while moving the first little bit, they allow it without much restriction but as the movement is increased, the resistance becomes greater. This can give a softer ride on mild imperfections in the road but nothing is going to take out the jar from a big pothole. Higher air pressure (within tire specs) makes tire damage less likely in these cases. Lower tires pressure means higher tire temperature and combined with high ambient and road temps can make the tire more susceptible to damage.

Cheap fuel here means cheap roads. You can't expect the Autobahn when you pay $3-$4/gal for diesel.

Pierce
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 22, 2019, 11:10:59 am
Better yet............... who's got a 36' coach with a similar axle weight to mine that's only running 100psi or less,  and if so what brand of tire are you running other than Michelin?
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Ted & Karen on August 22, 2019, 11:23:42 am
T-man-  I have 36 ft U270 been living in it full time for 11.5 years and 100,000 miles now.  I have always run 100 psi in all tires, never had a flat.  Up until this past December when I replaced 2 fronts with Firestone FS591 steer tires ( 295/75 22.5 LRG) I had Michelin XZA1 on them.  I wanted a stiffer sidewall and better price so I went with Firestone on my steer axle.  Just recently I changed my rear axle tires to Auroa UF03- private label tires from Hankook.  These are also 295/75 22.5  LRG tires and I am running 100 psi in them too.  Specs on them are good and price was much better.

Bad roads are all over and if you try to run from them you will find even worse roads.  If the road is bad, I slow down.  There is a minimum speed posted on many roads for a reason, so if it is too rough, save your coach, save yourself, slow down or find another way. 

May the wind be at your back on those smooth roads................... ^.^d
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Protech Racing on August 22, 2019, 11:34:40 am
LRG can use more air , steer better and not suffer ride quality .
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 22, 2019, 11:43:24 am
T&K thanks for the reply.  Can I ask your front axle weight and recommended PSI?
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: jcus on August 22, 2019, 11:54:36 am
Toyo's 295 H. 12650 front axle weight. Run 110 lbs, max pressure is 125.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Ted & Karen on August 22, 2019, 12:12:23 pm
my front axle was recommended 95 psi, probably similar weight to yours I think

T-man - just looked at my plate
Front axle 12000 lbs
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 22, 2019, 01:02:02 pm
295 Coopers in a 36' @ 100 psi.  2 rears were damages by the PO and a piece of steel caught the sidewall so a couple of Firestones on one side in the rear.

P
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 22, 2019, 01:31:36 pm
T&K thanks for the reply.  Can I ask your front axle weight and recommended PSI?

Here's what I'm dealing with;
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 22, 2019, 01:44:14 pm
For you guys with the sharp eyes, I had them run the rear axle number and it is a 21,000 lb.
assembly........................ which allows for a 34,500 GVWR.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 22, 2019, 01:46:53 pm
my front axle was recommended 95 psi, probably similar weight to yours I think

T-man - just looked at my plate
Front axle 12000 lbs

Maybe mine is heavier because of the AquaHot.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: jcus on August 22, 2019, 01:48:40 pm
Think you will have to go to a 295 H rated. Assuming you have a front slide?
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 22, 2019, 01:56:39 pm
Toyo's 295 H. 12650 front axle weight. Run 110 lbs, max pressure is 125.

We're only a couple of hundred pounds different in weight Jim, and running the same PSI.  How do those Toyo's ride on a terrible road?
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on August 22, 2019, 02:02:22 pm
Think you will have to go to a 295 H rated. Assuming you have a front slide?

Yes, both AH and slide contributing to the weight.  I forgot about the slide,  I'm already running the (H) rated.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: jcus on August 22, 2019, 02:28:15 pm
We're only a couple of hundred pounds different in weight Jim, and running the same PSI.  How do those Toyo's ride on a terrible road?
Can't compare to Michelins, but had Uniroyal's that were almost maxed out, so changed to Toyo 295 H, much better on bad roads.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: coastprt on August 25, 2019, 12:47:33 am
Korea makes first class cars with Kia and Hyundai so not unexpected that they would produce good tires. What did your Pro-Link show for mileage? Toad?

Pierce

On the the 13 year old dry rotted Michelins running 100 psi all around, I was showing 7.7 mpg on the last check with the Pro-Link Trip Data.  It would take about 10 miles before the hardened tires would smooth out.  This was on my regular 50 mile exercise run I try to do every two weeks.  The trip is on a four lane highway with cruise set at 62 mph.  It's mostly flat land with a few rolling hills, bridges and stop lights.  Ambient temp around 85.

The second identical run with the new Hankooks at 100 psi gave a reading of 8.2

Today on the same run, I aired up to 110 psi on all tires and the ambient temp was around 90.  No toad and no dash air running. The road temp was around 120 checked with an infra red thermometer.  The reading on the Pro-Link was 8.5!  That's 5% better than at 100 psi and 10% better than the old Michelins. 

Because of the heat buildup the psi rose to 115 for the fronts and 120 psi for the duals. I believe the pressures are within limits.

I know this is not a scientifically controlled experiment,  but it does indicate a significant improvement in mpg. 

Jerry
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 25, 2019, 10:41:49 am
Nice job Jerry,

Pro-Link is sure handy. What do you have for MPG since it was manufactured? It would take over 300 psi for the tires to pop and the Alcoa wheels are forged so they won't break, just bend. Huge safety factor. Lots of Hankooks on road race cars now.

Pierce
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Protech Racing on August 25, 2019, 03:38:33 pm
I have spent a lot of time developing my 136HP  race car to run at higher air  pressures then the norm. Simply goes faster .  I first experienced this with my Autocross  1600 Pinto.  40#s of air would go 95MPH. 30# went 88. 
      The Bus is the same . More pressure rolls easier ,goes faster , returns better fuel  burn.  Thats why I feel like I made a mistake  purchasing  the larger , heavier LRH , 295/75 tires.  Cant cheat physics.
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on August 25, 2019, 04:33:41 pm
The Bus is the same . More pressure rolls easier ,goes faster , returns better fuel  burn.  Thats why I feel like I made a mistake  purchasing  the larger , heavier LRH , 295/75 tires.  Cant cheat physics.
Do you max the pressure on the 295s? If your former tires were smaller in diameter, your 295 should turn less engine RPM per mile so less piston travel perhaps offset slightly by a tiny bit more contact area and more throttle.

Our Pro-Link shows exactly 8.0 MPG since new up from 7.9 when we purchased it about 50K ago. PO had a big construction trailer and we usually have the toad and live in the Sierras. All with the 295/75s maxed pressure all around.

Pierce
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: coastprt on September 01, 2019, 08:35:33 pm
Nice job Jerry,

Pro-Link is sure handy. What do you have for MPG since it was manufactured? It would take over 300 psi for the tires to pop and the Alcoa wheels are forged so they won't break, just bend. Huge safety factor. Lots of Hankooks on road race cars now.

Pierce

Pierce,

Looks like I'm getting a consistent 8.5 mpg with the Hankooks aired up to 110 psi, cruise set at 55mph.  At 62, mpg drops to 8.2 which isn't too bad for the DD6V92.

Odometer shows around 91000 miles on the coach.  Total gallons used is 12574 which gives an average of around 7.2.  Of course that includes idling, etc.  When I first looked at the Pro-Link trip data on the coach there was a difference of about 15000 miles more on the odometer than the Pro-Link.  The trip data mileage had probably been reset already by someone else. 

For now, I'll try to maintain between 62 and 65 on the highway because like Sammy Hagar sings,  I can't drive 55!

Jerry
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Vanman250 on September 01, 2019, 10:50:56 pm
I put Falken's on my SUV a year ago and so far I feel they are the best tires I have had so far and I think I have used about everything out there. I didn't know they made truck tires. I would not be afraid to try them. In Japan they are a top manufacture in tires
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: BILL FORE on October 10, 2019, 06:51:32 pm
switched to Yokohama .....satisfied

Mich always had prob with sidewall cracks
Title: Re: Tire Brands
Post by: Caflashbob on October 10, 2019, 10:16:31 pm
My understanding is that the tire has oils and waxes included into the carcass during construction that release during high load use,  the  Michelin's are reported  to have 300k miles life in use. 

As we barely flex lightly loaded tires designed for high miles and heavier loads would you not think that more cracking might  appear versus maybe other brands made to run less total miles under loads.

Go with me here. 

Based on the lower than max commercial miles and lower than commercial loads versus OTR trucks that the tires were designed for the argueably better ride and steering qualities the Michelin's advantages seem to have been partially offset by the low miles, light loading cracks caused my the carcass not releasing enough oils and waxes as the use was way off the design idea that the tires were made for.

I hope/understand that the later model Michelin's resist the poor appearance cracked sidewalk issues better.

Remember the  Michelin tires carcass was warranted for multiple retreading and/or 7 years/700,000 use.

As an observation from an high volume multi store FMCA tire dealers manager when he looked at the cracked sidewalls on mt traded in low hours/miles Michelin XZA-2's "I have not seen this much cracking on these tires before and we sold/sell thousands of these." 

To me it's not necessarily the tires "bad" ,  it's that  the use cycle we put them though is not what they used to be made  for, the high mile heavy load OTR trucker who wants to best life, lowest noise, best steering most retreading possible.

As I said I hope the ZXA-3+ and above design and construction incorporates more side wall cracking waxes and oils to better resist cracking than it seems the previous models many here experienced from new.

So maybe some of the other brands release more of their oils and waxes quicker with less miles as their design might not be as optimized as Michelin's are for the ultimate miles and retreading capabilities for the fiscally conservative OTR  owners.

That the Michelin tires  seem to have a observed rep for better riding, better steering, lower noise to go with it is a plus.

The deficit, at least on the older tire models, for the misuse was the cracking that appeared.

My commercial dealer mentioned using my cracked tires for yard trailers until they needed retreading.

He mentioned the cracks were optical not load or safety related as far as he could tell.