So started the new ac install today. Was just me so I was limited in what I could do. First got up and pressure cleaned to roof, lifting up some of the solar panels (they are removable and can be tilted) and what a bunch of junk under there. Algae, leaves, twigs dirt, you name it... Next I removed the interior covers and the bolts holding the units on. Disconnected the power and thermostat wiring, and the 12 volt too on both units. After that they easily pushed up, but I left them on till tomorrow when I can get my 2 boys to help.
Next I installed the soft start unit on the front AC. Almost miswired one wire, but figured it out and now all is good. Still have to secure it to the ac unit. I couldn't find my 3M VHB tape.. have to look again. At this time only going to put one on that unit since it can run off the inverter. I might get another one for the rear in the future. Will see how it goes.
I am impressed with the Attwood build. Seems like quality units. Not to heavy, but difficult for one person to move it around.
Her are some pics I took today. Should have taken more after the soft start was wired in. But didn't.
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One thing I have to say... after watching a bunch of videos of guys with other brands of RV's install AC units in their RV's and working with Foretravel, I am glad I have a well built coach like this. 20 years old, and the quality is there. Don't know about other brands since this is the only one I have owned, but it is true that these coaches are built very well. I will post more as the work progresses. Should be done tomorrow hopefully if I can get my helpers to carry them off and on the roof.
After watching the installation of my units, I would recommend leaving the "shells" off the units while they are being moved up on the roof and into position. Leaving covers off makes them less bulky, allows more places to grab on to, and prevents accidental damage to shells.
Good luck!
PS: I'm not seeing the photos in your first post for some reason - just little generic "missing image" icons.
His photos have been doing that lately, no image.
Same here. Just a minus sign instead. Really interested in the Atwood install as I'll be doing mine when we get back from our next trip.
jor
I've been using the insert photo by url. I guess only I can see it. I apologize and will correct as soon as I can....guess I will have to go back to the old way...
Let's try this
When I installed my units I placed a ladder at a shallow angle and pushed the A/C units a head of me up the ladder, Not too bad a job.
"After that they easily pushed up, but I left them on till tomorrow when I can get my 2 boys to help."
When I unhooked my old units I simply threw them off the roof, No reason to baby the old units on removal, They are off to the garbage after removal.
Pictures are now are visible! yes!
Old Ac will have scrap value, even after flight.
Lon,
I was thinking about doing it that way too. One question: How did you get it over the top of the ladder without kind of dumping it onto the roof? I was thinking I might pull it up instead of pushing. Thanks.
jor
Okay so a acs are on the roof now and I'm hooking up wiring on the front one. Got the 12 volt and the 120 volt wiring hooked up no problem but now I'm coming to the thermostat. If I use the Atwood thermostat which I want to do there is a miss match in the cable.
I know that I could probably get that cable through if I take apart the overhead cabinets, but after doing that once to install my stereo system I really don't want to do it again. So the Atwood has a 4-wire cable system does anybody know what's in the rj11 cable? I guess I could just use for the wires and mount them together and be done with it that way but I really hate cutting into this cable if it doesn't work out.
has a laugh about throwing them off the roof. That was my youngest son suggestion and we kind of got into an argument to fight about it I really didn't want to do that. all I could see it was bouncing off the ground and hitting into the RV and causing some damage or making a huge mess and then having to go down there and clean it up. It's 90 degrees right now in Texas and I really don't want to do any more work than I already have to.
So how we got them down? I slid them down a ladder with a rope attached to it. Those were the old penguin low profile ones I believe. to get the new ones out we did reverse we tied a rope around the AC unit and slid up the ladder we put a box underneath it to try to prevent the gasket from getting damaged it worked okay I'm going to have to put some sealant there. they weigh about 89 lb so they're fairly heavy and there's some sharp edges on it I cut my finger pretty well and my son cut his leg little bit. Still no it was worth not having to pay somebody to do it.
What size are they? My pans were different on the 15k I received
I had the top of the ladder even with the roof, all that is needed is a push onto the roof.
I pushed the new units up the ladder while still boxed.
When pushing or tossing the old unit off the roof I can testify that they DO NOT BOUNCE.
When I replaced the rear AC on our '89 I did it somewhat similar. I used my 14' extension ladder fully extended and leaning so just the top end was slightly above the edge of the roof. I moved my 8' stepladder up close to the coach and under the extension ladder. Ratchet strapped the two ladders together. Then made a plywood "sled" with a 2x4 fastened on each edge so they kept the sled located on the ladder. Ratchet strapped the AC to the sled. Fastened a rope to the front (upper) side of the sled and then proceeded to pull the sled/AC up onto the roof--easy. Lowered the old AC on the same sled.
when I did the 5th wheel... I pulled my truck next to the slide and lifted the ac on top of it..climbed on the roof and lifted it to the spot for the install.. younger and healthier then..
Jor I used a 16 foot ladder extended to its max, had it at a good angle and the tops just proud of the roof, so it was mainly on the sloped part. I had to remove one of the solar panels to get it up there. When at the top my son just lifted it up and over the ladder. I did have some indentation on the gasket but don't think that will be a problem when I tighten it down and seal the edges. Got a bit late last night so not finished with the wiring on the front unit yet.
Didn't measure it but comparing it to the dometic unit it is a bit smaller and the hole doesn't line up exactly to the hole in the roof. Once on the roof over the hole, it takes a bit of fiddling to make it fit, unless you have 2 people that can care, unlike my sons that just want to get it done and get back to computer gaming.....
The other thing I need to go is clean the roof off a bit more before finishing it with sealant. I cleaned the area with the gasket well, but under the unit is still dirty with crud and some algae.
Sounds like the proper way to do it, should have done it like that. The light aluminum ladder I used moved when first hauling it up and as I was on the ladder pushing, while my son was pulling you have to make sure it doesn't slip off the sides. I had the rope (as big braided dockline) pulling from under the unit rather than the top to keep the lip of the unit from catching on the sides of the ladder. Worked ok. The sled would have been a better idea in the end though. In fact two ladders together with one under to give it strength would have been great. But sadly only have one of those types.
I didn't think of bringing it up in the box, but that might have worked as well. Bulky though and harder to put a rope around as the box would have deformed.
Thanks, Bob. There are times when I am not your average idiot....I'm an above average idiot. Just ask my wife!! :)) :))
Putting in the easy start was not to bad on this unit. There is a pdf for the attwood on their site.
I put the unit on the other side, ran the wire through the unit, slipped it in the same hole the compressor wire bundle went through, and attached the wires as per the diagram on the pdf.
The brown wire I almost messed up on, but caught myself in the end. The black wire got connected to a relay from the main power on the Left side, 9A single to double male disconnect worked there and came with the install kit, most of which was not needed. 0, the white to the run capacitor, the orange to the other side of the run capacitor and the brown spliced into one of the wires off the run capacitor, which then gets removed from the capacitor and goes out to the compressor.
The pictures should give some idea of how it was connected, but in the end, look at the pdf file fo see. I used some self taping screws to hold the unit in place. I was going to just use VHB tape but couldn't find it, and the screws will give a better hold.
easy start pdf (http://www.micro-air.com/knowledgebank/Home/Detail/recreational-vehicle-wiring-(rv))
I should mention that I was chasing a leak somewhere up top this spring. So one of the things I did was replace the foam gaskets under both ACs. But, being paranoid because of my so far unlocated leak, I put the foam gaskets with the "sticky" side down onto the roof.
I then proceeded to caulk all the way around the gaskets where they touched the roof> SEE HOW PARANOID I WAS!!
I did ultimately find the leak. It was under the Kingdome satellite dish!!
We have had some major downpours this summer and not a single leak anywhere.
So I removed the dometic thermostat and put in the attwood. I spliced the wires together. Now I get the fan in the dash air running but not the AC fan, although it did come on once.
HELP?
Now I remember that the thermostat controlled both front and rear AC's but this one only 1 ac. So not sure if I should go back to the original thermostat or try and make this one work.
Any thoughts?
Dash air is Aquahot? the atwood needs to be separate of the rear air. Rear will be master now I would believe.. but the talking came through the front ac for both... So look at the rear as being master and front (atwood ) needs to be separate..If not changing both.
I am thinking out loud
also blue wire to ground and other blue to aquahot.. so when you hit furnace and heat the aquahot kicks on.
I had swapped both front and rear at the same time
David I swapped both out as well. I took pics of both before I disconnected them but now am scratching my head about it. Didn't think of the aqua hot. When I select fan only that fan comes on, not the ac unit. I haven't hooked up the rear yet. The other RJ11 cable on the passenger side goes to the rear unit.
On my coach the front and rear were on different ac breaker systems. The front can be run via the inverter as well as shore/genny.
When you say blue wire, do you mean from the ac or the thermostat?
Foretravel put in a temp controller in the rear bedroom that is interfaced with the dometic ac and thermostat. I looked again at the old units and they have 2 connections for the thermostat. But the Attwood only has one. That wouldn't be a issue as I was going to put a thermostat in the bedroom. Spent 1 hour tonight trying to fish a wire from the overhead bathroom light to the TV space in the bedroom and only managed to dehydrate myself. Its still high 80's here and a lot of humidity.
Maybe if I connect the aqua hot as well it will work better.... i'll try that tomorrow.
You done for the night or no? Ill pm my number so I can run through the install. pretty easy..
Start with the front on
us the phone line to the thermostat for your harness to work the atwood.. make sure you have wires on each end labelled and connected correctly... there is a blue wire on the atwood(actually 2) .. find the aqua hot and (white wire mine was on the passenger side of the opening) connect that to 1 blue (doesnt mater which) and the other blue to ground.
text my guy about the 12v from the front.. waiting on him so I can tell you where we pulled or got it from.. I think it was already up there.
Ok he said the 12v was there already so use that 12v for front and rear mine was a white.. then you will need to fish another to the rear from the front..(these run the thermostat)
rear one you will need to run a new wire harness for thermostat down to the old sensor area and then to where you want to mount the tstat..
I think you have some wires crossed not a big deal but each AC will be separate except the 12v supply... like I said run the 12v from the existing living room to rear and the rest is getting the harness right and aquahot..
So it seems that these units are not set up to work together. The old Duo therm units had two thermostat inputs, and could send the signal to either. But these do not. Unless I am missing something, I think I will have to run them off 2 seperate thermostats.
Now just have to figure out how to run the wire and where to put the rear thermostat.
Correct... front has its own thermostat as does the back and they do not talk to each other... I consider them married ^.^d
I ordered a pair of Atwood's today, both with the heat pumps. I'm following these installs with great interest especially concerning the aqua hot hook up. I understand the Atwood's will have independent controls, with the current set up the front and rear aqua hot is controlled by the single control in front, I can understand using the current aqua hot wire on the front controller but what about the new controller for the rear, how does it connect to the aqua hot?
Front and rear have a single aquahot wire at the opening.. AC has 2 blue wires.. connect 1 blue to the aquahot wire and the other to ground.. (doesnt matter which blue as they are connected to a relay) either blue to ground
This might help.. pretty simple once you get started
Duo Therm removal Atwood 15k install (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=37612.msg362298#msg362298)
there will be power wires and ground.... 1 wire for Aquahot... the front will have 12v available.. use that to run to the rear through the conduit. Next is the harness for the Tstat... can rewire existing phone line to work or run new harness to Tstat location.
Ah well thanks to David I got the AC going on both units tonight! Yah. Not sure if the furnace works yet. David I couldn't really tellwhich aqua hot wire was the right one because the wires near the aqua hot are yellowed and discolored and not every one has markings that I could see. But I took a chance on which one or a good guess and that seemed to work. So right now everything's cobbled together I have to finish the install crimp everything I had to solder a few connections. I had to add a 12 volt wire to the front AC and a 12-volt negative to the rear to get it all to work. Had to drill some holes through some of the roof beams and I ran the rear thermostat cable through the ductwork announce who won it around ducts in the back and I will end up putting the thermostat next to one of the three bulb lights on the passenger side there's like a little dresser cabinet. Tomorrow I will finished bolting everything down and caulk around the units get everything watertight. I'm pretty tired...
Okay well I'm having problems with getting the aqua hot to come on using the Atwood thermostat control. I've reviewed the wiring diagrams from both for travel and alcohol. And I'm pretty confident that I have it correctly wired. the blue wires from the Atwood go to both the ground wire that's connected to the frame just below the roof, and to the ground signal wire that goes to the aqua hot. When I turn on heat on the Atwood thermostat the heat pump comes on in the unit just as it should. When I then press the furnace button the Atwood turns the blower off, as it should, but the aqua hot fans do not turn on. This is for both the front and the rear unit. I use the Atwood thermostats on both the front and rear, on the front I use existing phone cable and connected to wires black to black red to red white to white yellow to yellow. and I'm pretty sure it's working right because all the functions on the unit other than the furnace are working. For the rear unit I use the Atwood cable, and again the furnace function is not working.
So I need some smart minds to look at this in a way that I'm obviously missing. The aqua hot is working I know that because if I use the separate bathroom thermostat it comes on and blows hot. And when I turn diesel on I get hot water. I checked the row of 12-volt fuses on the aqua hot and they all seemed fine I checked the 12-volt power across them and I'm getting it. so correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like the problem is in the atwoods relay. For some reason it's not sending a signal like it should. That's what the thermostat turn all the way up to 85 as well. Now this is Texas and it's hot as heck here and I saw something in the instructions about how below 45 degrees the Atwood would switch from heat pump to furnace. but others have been able to turn the furnace on by using that button so that shouldn't be it. I'm a little stumped at this point I guess I could call Atwood or dometic and I will but I'm not sure I'm going to get much help from them. Anyone have any thoughts?
Bob.. take the white wire you used to attach to one of the blue wires.. undo the connection and stick it straight to the ground connections on the frame (roof) .. aquahot should come on.. if not.. wrong wire or the relay is bad?
But to test the wires to make sure you have the right one just ground that wire by itself. Should kick on with no issue
Also if you can get a wire sniffer to check the wire is correct at the aquahot. It is really as simple as grounding the wire for it to work.. if that doesn't work .. make sure it has continuity
OK. I fixed it. Or at least I think I did.
The white wire needs to go to 12 volts not ground.
Looking at the Foretravel wiring diagram show wire A5 going from +12volt dc to the relay mounted close to the aqua hot. This has 5 pins. 2 of which are ground. one is the A5 coming from the ac area which is 12 volts. The other is A5A that goes from the relay to ground.
When I put 12 volts to the A5 wire the fans come on.
Same with A7 in the rear.
I haven't hooked it up to the attwood yet. Got to work the next 3 days, but will next week.
If it doesn't work through the attwood, then I will just install additional thermostats and be done with it. I also emailed dometic.
I could call Foretravel and ask them, and if doesn't work I will.
Bob, thanks so much for documenting your install issues with the Atwood's in regards to the aqua hot connection. I've ordered a pair and strongly considering doing the install myself along with a buddy, my main concern thus far in the research is the aqua hot hook up.
David's post was of great help as well. This forum is outstanding!!!
Well that is a strange one.. here is a pic of mine.. Grounded. Blue is screwed to the frame of the roof.
Glad you got it.. Not sure I would want a run of HOT wire going all the way to the aquahot from on top of the roof?
The lesson we have learned here is the A/C sends a 12 vdc signal to start the Aqua Hot zone and a relay at the A/C converts that signal to a ground signal that actually starts the zone.
Now on 2004 and newer heaters that have the Electronic Control Board, a 12 vdc signal all the way from the A/C to the board starts the zone. No ground signal on newer heaters.
Im no electrician by any means.. anything above a + - and I am lost so.. if you could help me to understand this..
As far as my understanding (very limited I will admit).. the instructions say to tie the furnace wire into either of the blue wires (on the AC) as they are both the same (meaning if it was used for ground it is a ground and if used for positive hot it is positive hot).. It is a relay that is installed in the AC so... does not create positive power nor does it make ground until the opposite end (other blue wire) is either grounded or tied to a positive wire.. As I understand it.. it is not capable of doing both Positive and Negative (only the one chosen by the installer)..
The relay acts as the switch to create ground for the aquahot system
Hope that was clear as to how I understand it works.. As stated.. I could be wrong ^.^d
David, I think you have it right. Call me and we can get on same page.
7 one 3. 8 one 8. 3234
David the wires already there. It's the white wire that in the front is labeled a5 and in the rear is labeled a7. These take a 12-volt signal which should come from the thermostat go through the air conditioning system back down the blue wire 2 the relays which then sends a signal to the a 5A or a seven a wire and that then turns on the aqua hot fan for that zone. The bath thermostat if you take it off the wall you'll see is a ground wire and a 12-volt wire which one connected sends a signal directly into the aqua high to turn that on for the bathroom zone. and remember this only turns on the fans not the actual aqua hot in order to do that you have to turn either the 120 volt circuit or the diesel circuit on. That was kind of confusing to me at first not sure why but it was.
Anyway what seems to be happening or not on my coach is the atwoods are not sending the 12-volt signal down the blue wire which then gets connected to that white wire that goes to the relay. I sent a service request through Atwood which is now dometic and their response was that I needed a service technician and there were none in my area. Which was pretty much what I expected from them. So my solution is to buy to Atwood thermostats like I have in the bathroom and place one in the bedroom and one in the front of the coach and all I need to do is connect one wire to ground and one wire 2 12 volt which would go to that a 5 wire the thermostat being the switching between. And then I'll just run an independent of the Atwood thermostat. Maybe it's just too hot here for the Atwood signal to come on? So I took a bottle of cold water and pressed it up against two sensor on the thermostat to see if that would help trigger it but it didn't do anything. I have one of the blue wires grounded so grounding the other wire should have turn the fan on right but it didn't. That's what Rudy had suggested I do and I figured well that's a good way to find out if it works or not. the only way I could get the aqua hot fans to come on was by supplying a 12-volt power to that a5 or a 7 wire. I really wanted it to work through the at with thermostat but something isn't working right and I don't know what it is. It's not my wiring with the thermostat because I have the Atwood wiring and the original for travel wiring on two different units and it's doing the same thing. I'm working this weekend so I'll work on it again next week maybe I'll know more by then.
Bob, not saying it right or wrong.. I am trying to wrap my brain around this lol..
1st question is what aquahot model do you have?
2) have you traced the wire from on top to the aquahot..2 ways to do this.. 1 is to put a line sniffer on it and sound it out or take the number on the wire and go to the aquahot and remove the top cover and find it on the switches and relays.. front should be labelled LIVING ROOM ( BEDROOM for rear). once the wire is found that will show where it goes and what it does.
On mine (doesnt mean yours is exactly the same) has all the power fed to the aquahot and is a negative ground (guess could be common wire? Once grounded it completes the circuit ...
Cant see why they would need a positive in the roof to activate the switch at the pump when you would not have to. Just a ground would work on a relay in the roof..
Again. Not saying you are wrong but to wire it up that way is wrong on a few reasonings...what happens if there is a short in the wire in the ceiling? Extra costs and complexity of a Build..
Next would be impossible to make the 2 blue wires work by adding power to one side and negative to the other ( it will either short out or not work) as per the instructions they (blue wires ) are both the same.
I also had positive 12v in the ceiling ( I used for the 12v power on the thermostat).
Maybe we are talking almost the same thing here as I never traced the 12v poss wire to see where it originated but what I do know for sure is that the blue wire is a ground wire on mine that activates ground by the thermostat through the relay.
David, this is the way it works far as I can tell.
12 volts is fed into the ac via the red wire. This energizes the tstat as well as the 12 v side of the ac.
When you activate the ac via the tstat, 12 v power is fed into the various relays. For the furnace this is via the blue wires.
One is ground the other is 12 volts from the relay I think. This sends power to the relay at the aqua hot. That sends the ground signal to the aqua hot I guess.
I tried grounding the wire out, as per Rudy's suggestion, and it didn't work. If it was turned on by a ground signal that would have done it.
So when I added 12 volts to that wire, it did turn on the aqua hot fans. Not sure why the Attwood is not sending the signal out to the aqua hot.
I traced the wires on the aqua hot. They feed into the top strip above the relays. I checked the power across. 12 volts.
I checked the fuses. All good.
I pulled and reseated the relays.
The only way to turn on the aqua hot fans on the units in the front and rear was to send 12 volts down that white wire.
So the only logical conclusion I can make is that it needs 12 volts to turn on.
The Tstat in the bath is a 12 volt wire on one side, and a ground on the other. Pull it and check it. 2 screws to pull it off.
Why the attwood is not sending the signal is a mystery to me, and dometic is no help. I am going to buy 2 cheap attwood tstats and run the heater fans off that. I will put one in the front and one in the rear.
As far as 12 volts running in the coach. There are tons of wires in my coach with power to them. 2 more won't make a difference.
Wish I knew why the attwood tstat wasn't working for me.
Bob
so another thing I found while looking at my pics. There are jumpers on the AC board. They look like they are jumpered right but then again, maybe not. Might have to get back on the roof and check it out. Nothing in the paperwork about it, but on the schematic you can see it. Its the two jumpers that are up top of the board in the middle. They say fur off fur on. I again emailed dometic customer support about this.
Let us know what they say when you call them ( Dometic).
I agree with most of what your saying ..Let me see if I am getting this right.. I have 12v coming into and connected to the 12v needed at the atwood... Nothing else is connected to that 12v lead.... Now on mine.. 1 blue is ground 1 blue is connected to aquahot white wire... thermostat activates the relay Via the 12v into the AC (when you put the thermostat into furnace mode) which then grounds the white wire Via the relay.
So my question is this.. do you have 12v Pos to 1 side of the blue wire and then the aquahot to the other blue wire?
You can't call them. Only email.
The way I see it, the relay in the AC unit sends a 12 v signal when furnace is called for, but I haven't been able to get it to do so. I may be wrong about this but seeing that the fans come on when I apply 12 volts to the aqua hot wire..... Don't think I'm wrong.
I plan to pull the cover off the AC units and check that jumper. Might be that it's wired incorrectly. Looking at the pics, the blue wire goes in one side of a white relay and out the other side to be connected to the aqua hot wire.
The other puzzle is that the manual show both blue wires going to the furnace, not one to ground. But the aqua hot only has one wire from the AC to the relay on the aqua hot.
Basically what you seeing is the completion of the Circuit in question.. whether its with ground or positive is the un aswered part.. ..
In theory ( as mine is wired) ..Aquahot has all the power it needs in the basement.. why run a hot wire all the way through the roof?
Let us know what you find.. interesting to say the least.. still thinking something is not correct... but at the end of the day .. could be correct.
Still not working. Response from Dometic
Dometic does not have a consumer technical support department. Authorized service centers and/or dealers provide all technical support. They are trained and certified on Dometic products to be able to assist you. They will trouble shoot, diagnose your unit, and contact Dometic to obtain authorization to provide warrantable repairs if applicable. The only thing we can do is send you installation/operating manuals.
As I suspected, they are no help.
No ground signal is coming from ac. Resistance with heat and furnace on is very high.
This weekend I did a lot of research and found that yes it's a ground signal that turns it on, which Rudy and David already informed me, but the attwood is not connecting that to the aqua hot. Also it's a puzzle why the aqua hot comes on with 12 volts applied to the signal wire.
I am going to call aqua hot tomorrow. See if they can shed some light on this. Otherwise I'm going to put in 2 tstats and call it done.
Think you swapped front and rear? swap thermostats and see if that helps.. Worth a try.
Nah. Neither one works for furnace.
I did some more tracing of the wires and found the relays that fortravel puts in for the aqua hot. I thought the relays on the aqua hot were what they were talking about but they're not. all the wires check out there is continuity there's power there's ground so it's got to be in the Atwood board. For some reason when the thermostat calls for the furnace it's not sending the signal through. And since it's in both units something else has got to be going on right? One of the things I was thinking about doing was switching out the jumper on the electrical board and seeing if that did anything and if it did that mean that the jumpers are wired wrong. or the other thing is that it's just too hot and the internal sensors won't turn the furnace on even with the temperature up to 85 degrees. Or I got lemons.
I will go down to mine and shut off the ac for a little while and see if the aquahot comes on in the heat.. should be hot tomorrow so I will test it.. I will let you know what it does.
Thanks 😊
OK for the continuing saga of my ac install, if anyone cares....
took the cover off the ac topsides, its a ground signal coming from the ac. changed the jumper twice, no change. no signal coming down the wire. There is continuity on the blue wires at the circuit board.
Fans still turn on when 12 volts applied to the white wire going to the aqua hot.
Called Foretravel for tech support, awaiting their call back.
Called Aqua hot, spoke to a service tech. Not much help there. They told me to talk to Dometic.... that's a dead end unless I want to drive somewhere and pay them probably more than I paid for the AC to tell me they don't know much.
So at least the AC's are working well.
Think I will order 2 atwood furnace tstats and wire it up that way. Maybe one day I will pass a dometic repair place and get some answers.... unless Foretravel support is of some help.
I think its a missmatch between the old duo therm ac and this one in the wiring. The amount of wires between the two are much different and how they handle the furnace as well. You can see from the old units the wires are more and different.
Forget about the old harness and the old connections..
I went out to mine.. 90 degrees in it this afternoon... Aquahot will not turn on as the thermostat only goes to 85degrees so nothing happened..
Earlier when it was 68 degrees the aquahot turned on with the settings at 85 (at the thermostat).
WOrks as advertised.
Again on the connections for the Atwood... power connections 3 each (with ground). 12v for the thermostat and the blue wires (1 to the aquahot 1 to ground).
The 12v will need to be ran to the rear from the front (as it is easier than a new wire on the rear)..
thinking you need to order a sniffer (what I call it.. traces the wires and makes noise as you run it close to the wire so you know you have the right wire.. or a toner I suppose).. trace the 2 wires to the aquahot and make sure you have the correct wires when connecting to the blue wires..
Bob... I care buddy. I want to figure this out with you.
Thanks David... was getting pretty down about the whole thing.
So perhaps it is just the fact that the temp is to high to make the furnace kick on. I ordered 2 atwood tstats from amazon and was going to just put them in. Now after reading your latest thread not so sure. It will be 2 months at least before it gets cool enough her in Corpus for the tstats to kick on. Maybe I will just wire it up and wait.
I am sure of one thing though, my wiring is correct.
I did trace all the wires with my multimeter. And I know for certain that the wire hook up is correct, and that the wires to the ac and aqua hot are good.
You would think that dometic would say something about that in the booklet that comes with it. Or that there ar jumpers on the board that control the ac and furnace. And what they do.
Ah well, December will be here soon.
Bob
If you are able.. turn ac (front and back) to 60-65 early in the am... go out in a couple hours.. coach will be cool enough to test... if on 30amp just do the front... will get under 85 pretty quick... then test. Front is easier as the fans on the dash are easier to hear when they kick on
Think I will wait till it cools off here and then try it. I purchased 2 atwood furnace thermostats just in case. The sensors on these units are in the ac on the roof as well as the Tstats in the coach. Don't think that will work David.
In the meantime, on to other projects....
Are your AC ducted? If so Tstat on the wall .. runs AC and aquahot (on the old tstat) .. thermostat controlled everything .. rear has the sensor in the bedroom..
When removing the old system you disconnect everything..
Everything on the new system runs off the thermostat now. 1 for living room 1 for the bedroom and no sensors now besides thermostats ..
If non ducted each Tstat is in the unit..
Pretty sure yours is ducted also. So the same setup as mine was
Yes ducted. Its to hot to have the aqua hot come one with the tstat it seems. All other sensors disconnected.
That's what I figured..
Can't you turn the ac in early in the am and cool the front down under 80 degrees? Turn the aquahot on at 85 and see what it does? The suspense would kill me lol
David, looking at the atwood electrical schematic, there are sensors in the AC unit on the roof and I can't cool that area down. In fact, running the AC probably just heats it up.
It should start cooling off soon here and I might be able to see then. At midnight is still in the mid 80's and feels hotter due to the humidity.
I will try it next week though and see. I too want to make it work. I disconnected the front ac from the aqua hot, but its just a simple one wire fix. The rear I left on.
If I need to bypass it, I will do it below, at the solenoid near the aqua hot. Run new wires up to wear I want the TStats to be. I figure one in the bedroom below the atwood ac tstat and the other in the kitchen. next to the jack knife sofa. Easy wire runs.
Maybe I am missing something.. what good is a sensor if you have a thermostat? What good is the thermostat if you have a sensor?
Not understanding I guess.. I am sorry.. you can't turn the air on and cool the coach right now? At all? Front or rear?
Once cooled front or rear .. get it below say 80 then turn the aquahot on the thermostat and see if if the fans kick on
David there are sensors in the AC that monitor air flow, temp etc. Plus the sensor on the status. I tried putting a bottle of ice cold water on the tstat to see if that would do it, and it didn't work. So cooling the coach down probably won't either.
On weds I went down and turned the ac on in my coach around 730 am.. put it at 70.. went back down in a couple hours and it was nice and cool in the coach.. turned the ac off at the thermostat and flipped it to furnace /heat.. turned the thermostat to 85 ( max heat setting) the aquahot kicked on.. it was 90 outside at the time..
Simple test to try. Takes a couple hours if the coach isn't cool already.. if cool already(under 78 ) flip the furnace/heat on and see if aquahot kicks on.
Again this is a simple test to see what is working or not.
Everything is controlled from the thermostat but if you can not get cooling.. your stuck.
OK. I will try it now and see. Its 0451. Temp outside is 80. Will turn it way down and check it in a couple of hours.
David, after a few hours I walked into the coach and it was so cold, my nose froze... and nope, the aqua hot fans did not come on.
At first I forgot to turn the theromastat all the way up, remembered and still no go. Then I checked the wiring.. one ground I had left off in the front ac when I put the covers on, fixed that, still no aqua hot fans. Turned on the bathroom aqua hot and yup, it came on no problem.
:(
Well on test down .. on to the next step .. maybe an email to the guy online that sells all the parts.. or join his forum
ok I couldnt leave it alone...Let me see if the attachment worked .. ok it did.. Bob check into this..
http://www.aquahot.com/files/service_manual/AHE-100-02S%20Service%20Manual%20Rev.%20B%209-27-2011.pdf if needed
Zones A B C are negative ground. See diagram to Tstat
David, I went over that service manual with a fine tooth comb.
But you have to remember that Foretravel wires it first from the AC to the aqua hot.
They wire it from the AC to the solenoid which then goes to the aqua hot. I'm pretty sure there is no signal coming from the AC. I have not found any electrical activity from the blue wires to the Foretravel solenoid. When I checked for continuity, it was there.
The ONLY way I have been able to activate the aqua hot zone fans, is by applying a 12 volt source to the wire that goes to the solenoid. So that tells me that the AC is not doing that. And that tells me that either both units are defective, which I don't think so, OR, it's to hot to set off the furnace. Which is what I am going for. But since there are sensors in a roof top part of the AC, I think they are inhibiting the signal until it gets colder.
If all else fails, I will tie in to the wires below at the aqua hot and just use the simple tstat like in the bath. It will work.
Had me lost with the new pic lol... I think ... is it possible you fried the 2 relays? (not even sure if that is possible)...Doubt 2 unit would have the same problem unless maybe the same connection that was done was incorrect and is causing the same problem?.. Just guessing.. I can only tell you from experience and how it worked on mine.. same AC and Aquahot..other than that I cant see anything else going wrong on both (not impossible just improbable).. ^.^d
Don't think so. Maybe on the front one, but not the back.
Either way I have a plan.
So I have been researching relays. The relay Foretravel uses is a simple automotive type B relay. Usually this is used to control a high current circuit. For the Aqua hot though, that is controlled by a ground signal, it controls a ground relay instead. 12 volts come from the ac unit to the wall thermostat, and when the furnace is called for a relay in the ac sends 12 volts to the relay next to the Aqua hot. This is wire A5 at the front ac and A7 at the rear. That goes to the relay down below, and enters at pin 86 the low current side. The other side of that is pin 85 and is ground. When energized the relay opens up pins 30 and 87. This is normally the high current side, but in this case is a ground signal. The Foretravel relay has 4 wires. 2 green ground wires and 2 white wires. The A5A and A7A go to the Aqua hot. So in order to send a signal to the aqua hot to turn on the zone, a 12 volt signal goes from the TStat to the relay, that then sends a ground to the aqua hot zone. Puzzled why they chose to do it this way. Since there is no high current running thru this circuit.
Anyway David, that is why there is both a ground signal and a 12 volt signal in this system. Took me a while to figure out why and how. Learned a bit more about relays in the process.
Now as to why the circuit is not going thru the AC circuit board is a mystery still. But I still think its about the temp outside. Either that Or both units I received are defective. Just don't believe that is the case though.
So cold front came in and outside temperature is 74. Turned on heat mode and heat pump works fine. Turned to furnace and nothing. Tried switching the blue wires around and... You guessed it, nothing.
So I am going to give up on the Atwoods controlling the aqua hot.
Will just put in a simple furnace TStat.
My recommendation is pass on these if you have a aqua hot. Others have gotten them to work but I cannot. No signal is going through.
And each unit has different cables, so it's not that, or how it's wired everything else works.
You can pop the covers off of the relay and close the switch by hand . When energized, 2 post have power. One post goes to ground and the last goes to power a system. Just like your pic. You can test the load path with a jumper wire and see if that passes power.
A simple test light will show if the ground for the coil is valid.
Some systems control the ground with steady power to the+ coil side and some control the power side .
I figured that since the aqua hot worked fine before the atwood install the solenoids were ok. But perhaps I should pop the solenoids out and check that before wiring in the separate TStats. Thanks for the suggestion.
Ah its cold.... brrrrr in Texas. So in order to keep the coach from having water damage, I tried once again for the atwoods to power up the furnace. No go. The heat pumps won't work in this sub 40 degree F weather either. So to plan B. I hot wired 2 atwood tstats to the 12 volt wires I had in the coach to the White wire that goes to the relay from the AC area. Turned on the tstat and..... it works!! As I figured, the aqua hot NEEDS 12 volts to power the relay. I hooked up 2 tstats temporary to get over this weather, then it will be a more permanent instal. Not sure why the atwood tstat is not turning it on. Something screwy in the board I think. Can't get it fixed now, and not worth the money later unless its still under warranty. So now with the aqua hot on diesel, got heat out of all the registers.
But my heat in the house is messing up on a brand new ac/heater install. Got to have someone come by tomorrow for that. I think its the gas solenoid and I don't want to mess with it, and its under warranty.
Glad you got heat in the coach. It's cold in the Walmart camp ground in Big Springs Tx.
yeah me too!
Glad I serviced the aqua hot this year too.
In 19 years of living in coastal Texas only had 2 freezes with snow here. Usually late December and early January gets into the high 30's low 40's then its summer again. Not so this year. Going to hard wire the tstats in next week.