We pulled the trigger and we are having AM Solar install a 3320W PV system to include 1200Ah 24V LifeBlue lithium battery and monitoring system, Victron Quattro 24/5000/220-100/100 120V Inverter/Charger system, and auto generator start system. They are estimating it will take about 3 weeks to install. They are trying a new technique of PV installation so that I will still be able to tilt the panels and also have room to service my A/C units. Below are some pictures of them removing my satellite dish, local TV antennae, and compass unit. Tomorrow starts the PV install. I will see if they will let me enter the shop at the end of the day tomorrow to get some inside pictures of the work they have done.
Can't wait to see more pictures Oscar, as our coach is the same as you're except a year older.
How does the 24v work with a 12v system and how did you fit that much solar on the roof?
Very impressive, 3300 watts on a 38 ft coach will probably set a record.
They are using a Buck-Boost DC-DC converter 24/12 100A for 12V alternator charge to 24V lithium and a Orion 24/12-70A DC-DC converter IP20 for 12V House DC from 24V Lithium (I think this is what they said...). Getting that much solar is only possible if their new mounting technique works which they will be trying out tomorrow. I will explain it in more detail tomorrow if it works ^.^d . Also my DW and I are not TV watchers so we deleted the dish and the local TV antennae. If we get the itch to watch TV we will just stream if we have enough signal. A Wilson signal booster is in the future (our money tree needs more time to grow more funds for us) ;) . They will be making two zones: 1560W and 1760W solar arrays. They will also be using, for the first time (I get to be the guinea pig) Victron BlueSolar Smart MPPT 150/70-Tr VE.Can for each array. These MPPT's use a Can connection for communication.
Hope I got this answers the questions you had and I did not mix up the DC-DC info.
Thinking with good sun and running one ac, you will not even be thinking about generators or shore power.
Would you be willing to share total cost when done?
Chris
Sounds awesome! We will need as many details and photos as possible, since you are "pushing the limits" with your install.
KEEP THE REPORTS COMING!
Wow that's a pretty big setup. Waiting on the details and pics. Sure to be a cool project.
One thing though, all that solar on the roof makes for a very difficult footing up there. I only have 1500 watts and its pretty dicey getting around up there. Keep that in mind. You will have to go up from time to time.
Absolutely. If their new mounting technique works I will still be able to do my annual maintenance on my A/C units. We will see...
Expensive :o ...I will have enough tax credit (this is the last year at 30% tax credit) to cover my taxes for a few years. I will not be able to provide my cost due to some special pricing I received being the guinea pig on some new equipment and installation techniques. If you go to AM Solar's webpage - amsolar.com - you will be able to estimate an order of magnitude of the cost.
We wanted to be able to not worry about plugging in or having to run the generator and still using all of our appliances and limited A/C. My only limiting factor will be water and waste disposal. We will now be able to pull into our children's driveway and visit without electric hookup or bothering the neighbors with generator noise. Did we have to have such a large system, absolutely not, but the peace of mind to us is worth it.
Think batteries alone are over $10k.
Perhaps David was just talking about the value of your estimated fed tax credit... :thumbsup:
Not much to show or report today for most of the work was done where I could not get any pictures. Lots of wire routing and building up of the panels they are going to install. Right at quitting time they put the first bank of panels up onto the roof. They bolted together sets of two Zamp 100W panels and two Zamp 90W long panels. These will have four anchor points that allow for tilting to the sides. By bolting them together in pairs it is theoretically supposed to give me enough room to get between them to tilt them towards the outside of the coach creating a larger walkway when I want to perform maintenance on my A/C units. These sets of two solar panels are in series and each set is in parallel to the Victron BlueSolar Smart MPPT 150/70-Tr VE.Can.
100W panels?? That will take 33 panels! Why not use 375W panels it would only take 9. Is there an advantage to 100w panels? Not criticizing just asking. :)
see ya
ken
Sounds like you are going to make your coach into the first Foretravel Earthroamer. Hope this works out the way you want and you get many years and miles enjoying it Oscar and Janet. ^.^d
Forgot about the batteries.. couldnt get past the 24v system in a 12v coach ^.^d
My '81 FTX is set up for 24 volts. I bought a Xantrex 4024, 4000 watts continuous 11,000 watts surge 150 amp charger at 24 volts. I used it for 12 years after setting it up. Bought a military converter to power the 12 volts systems in the coach.
With 100W and 90W and 115W sets in the other zone they are able to fit them into all the available space more efficiently. That is how I managed to get as much solar as I have planned. 9 375W panels would not fit on my 38' coach and fit around the 2 A/C units, 2 fantastic fans, Fridge vent, microwave exhaust vent, 2 tank vents, and 2 Hadley horns.
Guess you are running series\parallel. What is the final voltage going into your solar controllers?
Jim - If you mean total operating voltage AM Solar has posted on their website the operating voltage for each panel. So would thaT be 312V (12 100W with 20V operating voltage and 4 90W with 18V operating voltage) for one controller and 352V (14 100W with 20V operating voltage and 4 90W with 18V operating voltage)for the tother controller. I am not sure if I am properly answering your question so forgive me I gave you the wrong info. They once had 115W panels in the build but I see now I only have 100W and 90W panels in sets.
David, that battery bank wholesale is 26K alone.
My guess is closer to 32K to 35K. But then again, I am never good at estimating labor costs. So could be closer to 40K.
Oscar. believe your controllers can only take 150 volts max, so they would need to parallel some panels, [voltage stays the same but current increases] and series some [voltage increases, but current stays the same]. or they could run all in parallel which would require massive sized wires. If they specify 150 volt controllers, suspect they are going series/parallel. But they are experts and might know something I don't. My old 45 ft Newell with basement airs, could probably have taken 4000 watts :D :D
Oops, I think I answered incorrectly. :o Like you stated since I have two panels in series I would only have an operating voltage between 40V to 36V ( two 100W with 20V operating voltage = 40V or two 90W with 18V operating voltage = 36V) going to the controllers since these sets are in parallel. But, I will ask the experts putting this together in the morning when I get there. That is why I have them doing this and not me! ^.^d
Jim - I asked this morning and the operating voltage will be between 40V and 36V ( two 100W panels with 20V each operating voltage = 40V or two 90W panels with 18V each operating voltage = 36V).
They are installing the front solar array today so I will have some pictures tonight to post.
Today they did more internal wiring and have the leads now up through the refrigerator vent. They installed four sets of 100W panels. They hope to finish the front solar array tomorrow and start on the rear solar array next week. I am hoping to get some pictures on the internal wiring tomorrow. In the picture with the four sets of panels the one panel set was not yet installed for they had to reorient the panel set to fit better and the feet were going to have to be moved to the side so it could be tilted.
So, thinking panel sides to the center of the coach can be lifted/tilted up so you can walk down the center between them?
To add to Jim's question, is tilting for a walkway/maintaining roof, or to tilt for more sun in the winter months?
I like the orange strings off the lift. I wonder how many coaches they hit before doing the strings.
How do you get to all of the wing nuts when you want to tilt the panels? I assume a ladder from the ground for the side & front edges? What about the 4 inside corners?
Did not quite finish the front array, only 1160W on the roof before quitting time. You can see 6 of the 8 LifeBlue 300Ah batteries on the table beside the coach. The other 2 LifeBlue 300Ah batteries were still being charged up to 100% SOC. They installed the Easy Starts in both A/C units.
The strings are likely to prevent hitting your head on the platform.
Yes to both. I would not be tilting the front 4 sets of panels for maintenance for they are beyond my A/C units. I will see what my consumption is when we get to our wintering spot this year near Temecula, CA. I prefer not to tilt any for additional sun unless I have to. The Solar Irradiance figures for that area and the direction the side of my coach will be facing with my panels down flat are:
Nov - 3.34
Dec - 2.79
Jan - 2.99
Feb - 3.73
Mar - 5.28
If I tilt them 41 degrees from vertical:
Nov - 5.36
Dec - 4.91
Jan - 4.95
Feb - 5.14
Mar - 6.15
So if you multiply your total panel wattage by the solar irradiance factor that in theory is what you can expect to produce given clear blue skies and no obstructions. My total panel wattage is expected to be 3320W. So, for example, in Dec I would only be able to produce 9,262.8Wh in perfect conditions with the panels down flat. If I tilted just 3 sets of the 100W two panel sets (total of 600W) that would increase to 10,534.8Wh. [Corrected to say Wh instead of W for solar panel daily production]
Oscar, I am confused. Understand that with proper tilt to get max. sun, solar production will be greater, but not sure how you would get over 9000 watts out of 3300 watts of panels?
Mine are flat, but even under ideal conditions, have never seen more than 90% of their rated capacity.
I need your secret.
I believe he is talking about watt hours.
Craneman is correct! I goofed in my units and will correct it.
Watt hours are what a panel produces in one hour, so his 3300 watts produce 3300 watts in one hour is 3300 watt hours, so do not understand how this becomes 9000 watt hours.
What is watt-hour (Wh)? - Definition from WhatIs.com (https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/watt-hour-Wh)
The amount of watts produced on that day of Dec 1st.
Daily output. Thanks guys, understand it now.
While parked close to Craneman's coach at June Lake, I saw his total for the day exceed 5kWh with 1450 watts non-tilting panels. Ours is a 36 footer and has one less panel. Will still go over 4kWh if no trees.
Pierce
Not to hijack this thread I will post my upgrade to 1750 watts when I finish the project, on another thread.
Me to. Batteries have to be pretty low, but have seen 5 kwh a couple of times. Normally topped off by noon if SOC is above 70% in the morning.
Glad to hear that you all are not having to tilt your panels and still get back up to 100 SOC! I am going to try to not plug in while we winter at the Jojoba Hills RV Resort near Temecula, CA, and just run off of solar and batteries to practice. Our coach is now all electric except for the heating and hot water that can also run on diesel. I will start off keeping my heat and hot water on diesel and see how it goes and then switch over to electric if I have enough power left. Our major appliances that draw the most power are:
washer/dryer combo
induction cooktop
dishwasher
residential refrigerator
speed cook microwave convection oven
coffee maker
toaster
instapot
vitamix
water pump
I left out the A/C units for I will not need to use them in the winter. I also assumed using diesel for heat and hot water. I made a spreadsheet of all my electrical items and usage and it came out to about 13kwh a day. It will be interesting to see what my actual usage will be since the system will record usage.
Oscar, I guess all electrical loads, including aqua-hot element will be able to run on inverter?
Consider adding a temperature gauge to the Aquahot. That way you won't need to keep it running 24/7 but only turn it on to get the temp. up for a shower or take the chill off in the morning.
Yes, that is the plan. We will test it out while we are at AM Solar. But I may not run the aquahot of my electric for the diesel would be more efficient. I usually leave the aquahot off until we are ready to take showers at the end of the day and that is when we run the dishwasher too. When it gets colder we may have to leave it on during the night for heat. We, however, like it cool to sleep so I would probably just get up a little early and turn it on to warm up the coach in the morning. We should not have to worry about freezing temperatures so having it off during the night should not be a problem.
Are you using the transfer switches in the Quattro to switch between gen and shore power, or retain the Foretravel ATS?
I do not know the answer to this question. I will ask on Monday.
Couple of thoughts: 1. If that is the park that Don and Tish are in then I'll assume we can expect a solar upgrade from them, too. Also, 2. It's always interesting to find out what a project costs and noodle around to see if it fits in one's budget. Some things you guys do I would never consider. Nothing wrong with doing them but when we had the coach we had a lifestyle that didn't require that much electricity. I'm glad this stuff gets posted and am fascinated with the ingenuity on each project. Keep up the good work. Almost as much lurking on this site as it was owning a Foretravel, almost.
Don and Tys do live in the same Escapees park called Jajoba Hills. We have been a few times to visit and it is a lovely park. I would like to buy into it too but there may be one downside. Living that close to Don may see me following him with projects on our coach and never be able to get out due to coach being all in pieces.
Seriously, we enjoy seeing them and have become good friends.
Trouble is we now have 3 pieces of property here (just closing on another) so we are busy with things here.
JohnH
Jim - Rather than making a mistake trying to explain what I was told this morning I am going to wait and post the schematic of what they are doing. I will get that later this week. They are having to do lot of rewiring for the original factory wiring with the smaller inverter would not be able to take the loads the new Victron will require.
Larry - Yes, I am lucky that Don and Tys are at Jojoba Hills RV Resort too. They are great people and having a Foretravel guru like Don available to answer questions that I may have will be wonderful.
Jim - Here is a generic schematic of how they are hooking up my Quattro with their Smart Phase Selector (SPS). Hope this answers you question. If you go to their website it explains how their SPS works: Smart Phase Selector (Patent Pending) (http://amsolar.com/rv-inverter-accessories/50-tsfmb1)
End of week number 2. They plan to finish by the end of next week. Solar panels about 3/5 done and they are still working away with wiring everything up. Notice that the technician on the roof has the solar panels covered in cardboard that he is wiring into the J Box. The RV in the bay beside me finished up today so I could finally get a shot of the interior of the battery bay area behind my joey.
Solar panels are all on - 3320 watts. LifeBlue batteries all installed - 31,200Wh. Now they are finishing up all the rest of the wiring. Installing the Auto Gen Start is the last hurdle and they think they have a solution for that. Tentative finish date is this Thursday.
WOW!! Looks like a fantastic job!
Are you willing to share the CB layout for the entire system?
Thanks
Chris
Wow for sure!!!
I suspect the most expensive system they ever installed....... I know how much mine cost without a new inverter and just 1200W and lifeline batteries.........YIKES!!!!!
Chris - I will not be able to do that for a lot of what they did to my coach was a first for them. All I can say was it took a LOT of CBs and if not for the 30% tax credit I probably would not have installed the system I am getting. You will be able to get a rough estimate by just going to the AM Solar website and looking up the hardware I am having installed. Their labor rate is $130/hr. I will have been here for about 3 weeks with multiple people working on my coach.
While I have been here I have seen many installations and also people coming back to add on to what AM Solar had already previously installed and they praise the work AM Solar had done for them. If you have the skills, tools, and cover to do this kind of work you will save lots of CBs. AM Solar will put together a kit to fit the needs you require and send it to you with wiring diagrams and all the parts you will need.
So far I am very satisfied with their work. I was really happy when they were able to put four of the eight LifeBlue batteries back into the battery compartment where my three GEL batteries were. That left me more storage in my Joey area than I was expecting. The solar on top is spaced far enough apart in the center to walk to the rear A/C unit from the rear ladder without having to tilt them up out of the way.
MORE PHOTOS! (when you have a chance to take them without getting in the way)
Almost finished! Two batteries during testing proved to be out of spec so AM Solar ordered replacements that are to arrive on Monday and be installed on Tuesday. Here are some pictures of the install. Where you see the foam blocks is where my two batteries will be going.
Oscar, what are the different wattages of panels that were used, it looks like they used 2 different size panels.
Chris
Oscar and Janet, Nice meeting you last week at AM Solar. Congratulations on your system. Now comes the best part, getting to travel with it and being self contained.
How do like the bluetooth? I have only the Victron battery moniter 712 and a Victron solar controller 150/85 TR, and find this so easy to monitor. (and so I've not so many sytems to moniter, do you primarily use the color monitor or the bluetooth?
Chris,
26 each 100w
8 each 90w
Oscar
Congrats Oscar! That install looks awesome. You'll need to post pics with the panels tilted showing your access. Thanks for blazing this path. Keep us updated on how they perform. A lot of us will probably follow in your footsteps. (more or less!) :)
see ya
ken
Bring it to California!!! 900,000 households with no power right now. We have been on the U300's generator for days. You could power a neighborhood or even a small town.
Bet your coach is cooler in summer with the panels keeping the sun off the roof.
Pierce
Well done guys and yes from me on AM SOLARS workmanship and quality.
Might be worth considering doing this on ours but will wait a bit to see how yours performs.
JohnH
Guys/Gals,
This thread has taken a turn from the original topic.
PLEASE, back to the original topic, without political/social overtones.
Thanks.
Brett/moderator
Oscar, what is the benefit of using 90 and 100 watt panels over say 325 watt panels? I'm not a solar guru so just wandering what the difference is?
Send me a PM if you don't want to get into details on forum
Chris
Chris,
Good question! I was first looking at using LG's 21% efficiency 365 watt panels but was not able to get as much total wattage do to their size. I also wrote to LG to ask if they would warranty the panels if mounted on my RV. I got passed around to different departments and they would never answer the question. Using the ZAMP 100 and 90 watt panels I was able to utilize more of the available space on the roof and maximize my total wattage. ZAMP panels have a 25 year warranty and are built to be placed on mobile platforms. Their efficiency is only 18% vs LG's 21%.
Hope this answers the question.
Oscar
I was lucky to be able to mount four commercial panels on our roof because of their size. Unless you use a residential fridge, four big panels are plenty. We could use more battery capacity.
Pierce
Finally finished the install today. Everything works as planned. I really like the number of options for automatically starting the generator. You can have your generator start by each of the following parameters: SOC, battery voltage, battery current, AC load, inverter high temperature, inverter overload, and periodic run. I only have enabled the SOC and battery voltage.
We are on our way to Jojoba Hills RV Resort (Escapees SKP) and am anxious to see if I can run totally off of my solar and batteries during the winter months. I know we will not have any issues during the summer on our travels.
Below is a picture of my AM Solar DC layout if you are interested.
They do good work, and I've been really happy with RV Solar Solutions which is one of the authorized installers.
How's it working Oscar?
I have not plugged in since they finished the install. We are having our first "Winter Storm" (rain) here in Aguanga, CA, the last few days so with the clouds and not much sun I am down to 75% SOC. We are supposed to get about 4 days of sunshine starting tomorrow and that should get me back up to 100% SOC before the next storm hits starting next Tuesday. Sure does seem nice not having to use any shore power with an all electric coach! Now that the days are getting shorter and the angle of the sun is lower I use the diesel mode in the AquaHot. When the sun shines more and is at a higher angle I will go back to using electric for heating the water and the coach. I am down to between 10-11 kilowatt hours of solar production a day (when the sun is out).
That's a healthy size! For total crazy a friend of ours has an older Prevost (AC not on roof) he is kinda a mad scientist guy..6000W on the Roof and a Battery Bank out of a Tesla...It's a Beast. Did it all himself and built a custom roof rack out of 80/20...WOW is what I said
Sounds like an awesome system! I am sure he is enjoying his as much as I enjoy mine.
Always fun to hear what others have done.
Ran out of room on coach roof, so put 5200 watts of solar on the S&B roof. 21 kwh leaf battery [48 volts], backup for house incase of power outage. But now I use it to recharge my Tesla every other day with it.