Took our 1990 U280 GV in for regular maintenance and to have a significant air leak diagnosed. In the course of the oil and filter changes Our maintenance technician diagnosed: 1. A leak in the fuel pump (Cat 3208T). He stated that this fuel pump is no longer manufactured, but the parts are so rebuilding it is the recommended option.
2. The major air leak was traced to a valve for the cruise control; he stated that this valve is no longer available. We can cap off the line and forego cruise control or have an aftermarket cruise control installed for around $800-900.
Have any of you experienced the same situation with either the fuel pump and/or the cruise control valve? Thank you.
https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=search;sa=results
Can you post close up pics of both items?
David, are you implying that those items have history here?
Yes, a picture of both would be most helpful in us providing you with correct information.
Assume this is the Bendix air cruise control? I do have the manual if this is what you have.
The internet is your friend in these situations, and your time is less expensive than their time.
Here's a (free) start:
Lift Pump | 3208 | 3208T | Caterpillar Parts (https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/lift-pumps-for-3208-caterpillar-engines)
My 91 GV has the 3208T eng. and I've been told that there is no lift pump, only the injector pump which takes suction from the fuel tank. This appears to be accurate since there is a negative pressure between the primary and secondary fuel filters. That vacuum is about 3 inches at idle RPM. Does this equate, or is some thing amiss here?? Thanks and have a great day. ---- Fritz
All diesels require a lift pump/supply pump/feed pump to get fuel to the main injector pump. On many injector pumps, especially Bosch, the lift pump is installed on the side of the injector pump. It sucks fuel from the tank, through the filters and then supplies the main injector pump. This type of pump is very reliable and may have the manual pump as part of it as in the attached photo.
In the photo below, the lift pump pulls from the fuel tank and then pushes the fuel through the small primary filter and then through the secondary filter and back down to the main injection pump inlet right above the black manual pump handle.
Pierce
Please clarify as to "in" or is he talking about the seal where the throttle shaft goes into the side of the pump? If it is just the seal leaking as a lot of them do those are about $0.30 and a few min. to replace with out removing the injector pump. If something internal then yes they are rebuildable at a good injector/pump shop.
Mike
If the 3208 has a lift pump, it is integral with the high pressure pump . My lines run from the tank to the pre filter, fine filter, and to the engine pump .
Update , the lift pump is a small gear rotor pump feeding the High pressure section. If it has one. It may not have one as my Pump builder tells it.
Thanks for the info/update, I'll hand over hand my specific installation and more closely determine what is there. Have a great day ----- Fritz
My mechanic informs me that the source of the major air leak is the Bendix Cruise Control system, specifically a Bendix/Westinghouse valve #260717; originally, I was going to have a CruiseKing system installed. However, CruiseKing is now closed, according to their website, Semi Truck, Bus, RV, Service Vehicle Cruise Control Installation (http://www.cruisecontrolking.com/), and are no longer selling their systems. So I started searching for the Bendix valve and, so far, have not been successful. I have left a message with FOT, emailed MOT, google searched, looked on ebay, Bendix website, and a negative reply from an RV salvage yard in Phoenix. Do you have a suggestion for a source for either this valve or another cruise control system? For us, it is a 13-14 hr drive to Quartzsite and it sure would be nice to have a cruise control! Thanks!
I have the Bendix system on our '93 U280. I have a couple documents saved in .pdf file, which are linked below. They may be of some help, or at least interest, to you. Looking quickly through them, I do not see any reference to a valve #260717. It would be nice if you could post a photo of the valve in question.
I am also including a "marked up" copy of the cruise control system diagram, showing the parts added by Foretravel to integrate the air throttle with the cruise control.
You can also find discussions pertaining to the Bendix system over at the Wanderlodge Owners Group. Some Bluebird coaches use the same air cruise/air throttle setup. There are smart people in that group, and lots of valuable experience dealing with old coaches.
First link below is to the home page of the forum. Type "bendix cruise control" in the search box and see what pops up.
Second link is to the W.O.G. "download file directory". You will find some Bendix stuff listed (alphabetically) there.
Wanderlodge Owners Group - Powered by vBulletin (https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/index.php)
www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com - /downloads/ (https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/downloads/)
Thank you for the information and the links. I will take the diagram over to the mechanic and ask him to point out which valve is the problem and also take a pic.
Finally able to make it over to the shop to get a picture of the Bendix Control Module for the Cruise Control. The mechanic says that the big leak is where the brass fitting goes into the plastic housing - highlighted in blue. He said that the plastic is very brittle and if he attempts to tighten it he is afraid it will crack. His solution is to bypass the module by joining the two tubes highlighted in red. I wonder if there is another way to try and stop the leak? I usually like to do as much maintenance as I can, but where we store our coach makes it difficult. I did checkout the Wanderlodge sight and there are folks on that forum also looking for this part. I've also checked out several other sites...MOT & FOT both say they don't have any parts or recommendations where to find one.
The fuel pump is out for a rebuild and should be back this Friday. So, hopefully, we will be good for Quartzsite in mid-Jan. Really appreciate all of your responses and sharing your knowledge!
OK - now we can see the "root" of the problem. And, of course, it is one of the "unobtainable" parts. Murphy's Law in action.
I would not try to tighten the leaking fitting - it probably would crack the plastic. I also don't believe simply connecting the two air lines together will work. You must have some means of controlling the air flow into and out of those two air lines. That is the function of the two solenoids.
Looking at the photo of that part (below) and the fact that it simply bolts to the electronic module makes me think there
might be a solution. I
think that white plastic piece that connects the two air lines to the two solenoids MIGHT be a rather simple manifold. Air comes in one end (controlled by the supply solenoid) and goes out the other end. "Manifold" pressure is released (when necessary) by the exhaust solenoid.
If it was me, I would disconnect the air lines and wiring connectors and remove the whole solenoid assembly from the electronic module. Then I would carefully take it apart and see what the white plastic piece looks like inside.
If it is very simple inside then a good machine shop might be able to reproduce the
function of the plastic piece by milling a simple reproduction manifold out of a small block of billet aluminum.
If the plastic piece is too complicated inside to easily reproduce, then you could try to carefully reinstall the brass fittings in the ends with some good quality thread sealing paste and hopefully seal up the air leak.
You need to get creative to solve this problem, because the alternative is trashing the whole Bendix cruise system and installing something else.
Looks like it's a simple manifold block, expect you can fabricate one with some PVC fittings, female adapters, drill bits and taps. It may also be possible to find a prefabricated two port manifold, in aluminum most likely.
If the part is unobtanium, I would personally try using 2 part epoxy JB weld around the leaking port(s). Might work, and if not no loss that I can see...
This brings to mind the corollary to the old rule about, "If it ain't broke don't fix it ". The corollary states, "If it is broke you can't hurt it".
Plast-aid is another product that might work on this.
Amazon.com: 6 oz. Multi-Purpose Plastic Repair Kit: Health & Personal Care (https://www.amazon.com/oz-Multi-Purpose-Plastic-Repair-Kit/dp/B00CP6FLO2/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=plast-aid&qid=1576113648&sr=8-3)
Very concerning that Cruise King closed shop.
A lot of mechanical Cummins out there with the King 2600 Throttle/Cruise System.
Had mine rebuilt by Cruise King several months ago after it failed after 22 years of service.
Not for sure what the future holds now for service on the King 2600.
Travel Save.
Bad news about Cruise King..Don't have a clue where to begin looking for someone to fill that void.
Any interest in taking on the king cruise service business?
I
I painted the plastic manifold junction today..
Thank you for all the suggestions; once I get it back I will try out some of your solutions.
I looked at your photograph and the copy of the page from the Bendix manual and I think that your valve can be replaced with a standard industrial valve.
To go any further I'd need to know more about the operation of your valve, mine is working fine and I'm not touching mine.
But, Festo USA used to be my go to company, and I suggest starting with a 5/3 valve Festo MFH-5/3 as a possible solution. Talking with a sales engineer will probably solve your problem if you can describe the operation of your valve.
https://www.festo.com/media/pim/213/D15000100123213.PDF
PS If that cruise control valve works the way I think it does, you'll need to cap off those lines, not connect them together.
Thank you for the info on Festo; concur with capping of the lines.
You're most welcome. I'd rather learn how to replace the system on your nickel. Festo has cylinders with magnets on the piston so it shouldn't be too difficult to even replace the cylinder and cable when the time comes.
Wouldn't it be good to have fuel pump and / or bendix cruise control in the title when I try to search this some day when needed ??
I'm pretty sure that some day when I need this information my immediate need will be for a ball of string and a stick.
Here is an update: Picked up the coach today. In addition to the fuel pump, the rear brake pads were very thin and recommended replacement (fronts were fine). When they pulled the rear wheels and pads, they noticed that the rotors were cracked. Shop foreman said they were original - had a 1989 mfg date. The shop didn't have the expertise to rebuild the fuel pump so it was sent down to a shop in Pueblo, CO. So...as expected, the number of coach bucks kept increasing over the initial estimate. The cost of the fuel pump rebuild kit was around $1k, the labor to do the rebuild also around $1k (and about 7 weeks.....), labor to install the fuel pump and some other items around $700, rear brake pads $500, rear brake rotors $1000. Plus there was a radiator hose leak and the radiator cap wasn't holding pressure. So, all in all, not exactly as expected, but not really surprised. Fresh oil and oil and fuel filters on the CAT and on the generator. Decided to leave the cruise control as is and just deal with the leak until I have time to try some of the fixes some of you offered up. We are looking forward to heading out to Q in a couple of weeks....planning on arriving in time for the RV show and the Pow Wow Gem and Mineral show. Thanks to all who have shared your experience and wisdom....still figuring out the systems and there so much to learn!
Congratulations. Don't forget the ball of string and something from which to make a ratio stick. And when it gets that far let me know the diameter and stroke of the cylinder, so I can get a head start on mine.