Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: GleamB on November 27, 2019, 01:32:36 pm
Title: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: GleamB on November 27, 2019, 01:32:36 pm
I went to raise the coach and put in the safety stands to bleed the front air tanks. Every time I attempt this I vow to make extensions like Roger has. It's on the "list". Today, after running the engine, getting air up to pressure and pressing the" raise" button, I couldn't get the stands in. First time this happened. Mine are 12" but I will get them cut down. I once had trouble getting one out. MY QUESTION IS: with engine running, holding down the raise button, which is blinking, HOW DO I KNOW when I am at highest point of air bag? Does the blinking light stop blinking? On a side note....and not to stir up the hornets nest, I have been under my coach with both Wayne, when he was at OTM, and Keith at MOT, and they scoot around WITHOUT blocking up the coach. Do they know something we don't?
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: gracerace on November 27, 2019, 01:47:18 pm
I went to raise the coach and put in the safety stands to bleed the front air tanks. Every time I attempt this I vow to make extensions like Roger has. It's on the "list". Today, after running the engine, getting air up to pressure and pressing the" raise" button, I couldn't get the stands in. First time this happened. Mine are 12" but I will get them cut down. I once had trouble getting one out. MY QUESTION IS: with engine running, holding down the raise button, which is blinking, HOW DO I KNOW when I am at highest point of air bag? Does the blinking light stop blinking? On a side note....and not to stir up the hornets nest, I have been under my coach with both Wayne, when he was at OTM, and Keith at MOT, and they scoot around WITHOUT blocking up the coach. Do they know something we don't?
I personally found 11" works better. I started with 11.5 (have Firestone bags ) and sometimes was a struggle getting them over the limit pads. Another trick is, use the raise, but then use the rear raise separate. When I use the raise all 4 corners, it always leaves the back low. You can judge when the bags are full, by looking at the wall, or some other object by the coach. When it's done, the coach will stop raising. The lights do not stop blinking.
If the coach isn't blocked, I have gone under there lots of times. But I would never get wrapped up inside one of the hollow spots in the chassis, nor would I stay under there to work on anything. I do my LOF with it unblocked, we did all our LOF's as a tech with no blocks.
The coach is not going to fall down, it's going to come down slow.That is also unlikely to happen, unless you are messing with the air system.
With that said, was once doing a service, and the salesman jumped in with customers, and turned the ign. on. The coach was already low, and barely got out. Had a few words for him.
So I would say, when in doubt, block it up. Always safer, then to be dead!
Chris
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: Don & Tys on November 27, 2019, 01:47:25 pm
I know when ours is high enough to put the 12" stands in when both front and rear brake tanks show 100~105 PSI while HOLDING DOWN the raise button. Actually, it is high enough at about 95 PSI or so, but it might settle a bit by the time you can get all the stands in place. In fact, at an indicated105 PSI while HOLDING DOWN the raise button, I could easily place a 12 ½" stand. As soon as you release the raise button, push the level system button once to hold. After you turn the key off, you can dump some air to set them. Don
MY QUESTION IS: with engine running, holding down the raise button, which is blinking, HOW DO I KNOW when I am at highest point of air bag? Does the blinking light stop blinking? On a side note....and not to stir up the hornets nest, I have been under my coach with both Wayne, when he was at OTM, and Keith at MOT, and they scoot around WITHOUT blocking up the coach. Do they know something we don't?
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: craneman on November 27, 2019, 01:59:14 pm
On mine I have to sometimes use the side to side arrow to get the front ones in. The rears always clear with the 12" just by raising.
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: gracerace on November 27, 2019, 02:26:57 pm
Maybe the 97 is different, don't know why it would be. I always struggled with the rear even at 11.5",till I cut them to 11" .This is with a compressor hooked to coach, both gauges at 120 psi. But that makes sense, it probably settles before you get to the back ones, because a guy jumps out and does the front 1st. I have never found 11" a hindrances in any way, even when doing the new motor. Thanks for the new info, always wondered why everyone said 12" blocks. Happy Thanksgiving Chris
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: Keith and Joyce on November 27, 2019, 03:39:25 pm
On my coach as soon as you release the raise button the bags start to slowly deflate. I just raise it up then push the off button.
Keith
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: D.J. Osborn on November 27, 2019, 04:30:08 pm
I use eight of the 12-inch receiver extensions from Harbor Freight. With the engine runnning my wife presses the "raise" button while I insert them. Works well.
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: Rich Bowman on November 27, 2019, 05:32:53 pm
On mine, the raise button stays on after one push. I have to hit the cancel button to turn it off. The side and front/back buttons need to be held down to stay engaged.
Rich
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on November 27, 2019, 06:22:29 pm
I push and release the raise button on our 2001 U320 and it goes up. When I can get my 2x2 steel tubes in it is up high enough. Front is usually a bit faster then the back but it can take a bit. Once the stands are in I lower the coach until it is on the stands so they cannot come out. Glenn, on the 2001 of you use a male to male adapter to connect an air line to the aux air connection (use an inline water separator) and raise the coach that way. This will not add air to your HWH tank or the front, rear or wet tanks. If it does your check valves are shot.
Not all coaches are the same.
If you have to get you coach towed the tow truck driver will hook up an air line to the aux air connection so that your suspension has air.
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: Woody & Sitka on November 27, 2019, 06:27:08 pm
Glenn, I have 12" safety pipes. There's a pressure regulator for the front air bags, located up between the front wheels, and it limits the air pressure to the fronts. If you are on a slight incline, the air pressure sent to the front may not be sufficient to get the full foot of lift even if you have 120psi in the system. My regulator failed last year, replaced it, and increased my regulator pressure from I think 55psi to 70psi....now I can park a car under there at full lift!!!! Almost. Just remember you gotta wait for the rears to lift to ride height before driving off...more pressure on rear bags...personally, I walk the coach before takeoff to look at ride height and everything else anyways. I read somewhere that the purpose of that regulator was to make the front and rear rise at the same rate from a full dump. Another dumb FT/HWH bandaid fix before digital age fully materialized IMO. I'm starting to despise HWH (and Javelina) for having any role in my coach. Practically every component with those 2 names on it is reaching expiration dates almost on queue. FWIW, I saw a lot of techs at MOT and tire guys crawl under air bag coaches with no safety struts. It's a crap shoot, and hate to admit I've done it a couple of times. But I do trust the air bags more than I trust a jack or wood/cinder block under an axle, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: GleamB on November 27, 2019, 07:24:21 pm
The irony of it all.... I found a guy to trim an inch off my 2 x2 12" steel tubes. No problem. Went back to place stands and get under coach to bleed tanks.... it's been a while. I'm in soft, new gravel, so my front tires are sunk a few inches down!! This fat boy can't get under his coach. Need to lose 30 pounds or get some dunnage under the wheels. It's always somethin'!!!
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: Dub on November 27, 2019, 07:48:54 pm
Wont get my big self under one without some back up.
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: oldguy on November 27, 2019, 08:42:35 pm
This post is perfect timing for me. I was having a hard time to get the left rear bags high enough to get the blocks in. I thought there was something wrong with the coach or me but I see that could be just the way it is.
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: Woody & Sitka on November 27, 2019, 08:42:49 pm
Dunnage...not too many folks know what that means brother....awesome. Next time you're in Walmart...get 6 poly cutting boards that are about 16" long and 12" wide. I place 'em under the tires when parked on the soft stuff for more than a week or two. Woody.
The irony of it all.... I found a guy to trim an inch off my 2 x2 12" steel tubes. No problem. Went back to place stands and get under coach to bleed tanks.... it's been a while. I'm in soft, new gravel, so my front tires are sunk a few inches down!! This fat boy can't get under his coach. Need to lose 30 pounds or get some dunnage under the wheels. It's always somethin'!!!
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on November 27, 2019, 11:30:07 pm
I made a set of ramps for the coach out of 6x6 cutoffs. 2 wide for the front, 4 wide for the rear. 3 feet of ramp, 2 feet of tire space. Pretty amazing how much easier it is to get under the coach with an extra 5-1/2". I also use a common patio mat made from woven plastic shoved under the coach to slide around on. Pretty slippery. And a plastic boot tray that holds all of my tools and stuff while under there. It is not a place I like to go but try to make it as painless as I can.
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: jor on November 28, 2019, 10:13:26 am
Quote
I have been under my coach with both Wayne, when he was at OTM, and Keith at MOT, and they scoot around WITHOUT blocking up the coach.
MOT did the bulkhead repair on this coach. It took ten days. Neither they nor the welding shop blocked the coach or even raised it.
I usually just use my air compressor set at 120 psi to raise the coach rather than the onboard air. If I have to start the engine and raise it, I just turn it off when it's at full height and it remains so until the ignition is turned back on. jor
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: GleamB on November 28, 2019, 12:49:13 pm
Roger, How is your water separator "set up" with the male to male? Where do I buy one? Also.... where is your post about relocating the air tank drains. I want to do this. Bad design.
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on November 28, 2019, 06:31:01 pm
Glenn, all the parts for relocating the tank drains are in my projects-ready-to-do tub. I just ran out of time this summer.
I use this in-line oil/water separator with a female air connection on one end and a male on the other. Amazon.com: TEKTON 4755 Oil/Water Separator: Home Improvement (https://amazon.com/gp/product/B001NSYV58/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
A set of common type M air fittings is good to have in your spare parts bin. WYNNsky Air Coupler and Plug Kit, 1/4 Inch NPT Air Fittings Industrial Type,... (https://smile.amazon.com/WYNNsky-Coupler-Fittings-Industrial-Storage/dp/B075R1TH9Z/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3NNUDVJS63BD5&keywords=npt%2Bair%2Bhose%2Bfittings&qid=1574983292&sprefix=Not%2Bair%2B%2Caps%2C226&sr=8-2&th=1)
Put two male fittings together, one with male threads and one with female threads to get a male to male connector. Some add a valve in the middle.
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on November 28, 2019, 10:03:00 pm
Be careful of the fittings you buy. Most shops use the automotive style. Nice to have extra fittings in both styles. Harbor Freight usually carries both styles. They all come in male and female types. I like teflon paste rather than tape.
I use all automotive type fittings. A Quick Guide to Air Line Couplers and Plugs (https://toolguyd.com/quick-guide-to-air-line-couplers-plugs/) Automotive style (type C or T) is on the far left.
Pierce
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: gracerace on November 29, 2019, 03:07:40 pm
My Bad
I was talking 11" safety blocks, when the truth of the matter was, mine are 6 1/2" cut down from 7". I put mine in between the frame's at the limit pad.
Probably because that is how our aluminum blocks were made to fit when I was a FT tech. Maybe because they felt the safety pads helped keep them in, maybe because they are shorter.Who knows!
I see no reason why you can't safely put 12" ones in by the bags. Certainly easier. I will say, I used a 5th wheel leg, which is plenty strong, they slip into each other, and store easily in the gen side compartment.
Cheers Chris
Title: Re: Raising coach and safety stands
Post by: Lewis Anderson on November 29, 2019, 03:35:55 pm
While full-timing, my initial experience with the air system losing pressure was an airbag rupture while leveling in a friend's driveway. I was raising the rear to make the coach level. This type of air lose is loud and rapid. All the suspension air escapes, leaving the coach sitting as if I had "dumped." I imagine the same would occur with a line failure. Check valves and other separation features providing dual-protection did not work. Showed me the importance of "blocking" the frame whenever under the coach.