Hello all,
I'm a new forum member here, seriously considering a late 90's vintage U270 coach in either the 34' or 36' length. I'm sold on the build quality and overall design of the Foretravel coaches, but want to stay "short" because of our desire to camp in smaller State parks as well more urban boondocking sites that are often tight.
But having no direct experience driving a shorter class A coach my concern is the highway handling characteristics of the shorter WM models (I believe 204" and 228" respectively). It seems that most all of the shorter WB diesel pushers have been relatively short lived in the market, and I have heard that it's due in part to the handling characteristics of short WB. (I'm sure floorplan options also play a big role)
So I'm posting this very subjective question in the hope that those with experience driving these rigs in different lengths might be able to share their experiences. I'm a pretty conservative driver (generally right at speed limit), but I would like to be able travel 70-75 in those areas in NM and Texas where it's safe and legal. Also if you have any suggestions as to potential handling "improvements" to these era chassis, I think that would be related and useful. I'm willing spend more on a later model coach if needed to get a good handling chassis, but I just don't want to go to a 40'er at this time. From what I read, the airbag suspension system on these coaches is great, so really no need to go newer in that regard, but I do believe that systems like Comfort Drive in Newmar coaches offer real value, especially for the shorter WB models. Anyway I would greatly appreciate your opinions.... this is a great forum with many experienced members... THANKS IN ADVANCE!
cedwards,
You are correct-- physics dictates that the longer wheelbase/overall length WITH EVERYTHING ELSE BEING EQUAL will track better.
Can you though $$$$ at at a chassis to "overcome" physics-- of course. Whether on a car or a motorhome.
SO-- Foretravel, even on their 34' coaches use 8 outboard air bags, 8 shocks, etc. Most who have driven 34' and 36' Foretravels are very hard pressed to tell the difference.
I can tell you from personal experience that our 40- ft U320 has outstanding handling with the outboard-mounted 8 air bag suspension. I haven't driven the shorter models but those who have driven the various lengths state rhat they also handle quite well. I don't think you should hesitate to get a shorter Foretravel if that's what you really want.
Question on 34 ft control -- was Motorcade Dues (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=8600.msg37835#msg37835)
Question about 34' U-270 (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=5014.msg20438#msg20438)
Lurking for awhile and have some questions (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=19950.0)
Thanks Brett, interesting/surprising to me that most find the 34 / 36 models the same, since the "ratio" is worse on the 34'. Would you consider a 34' model for long distance highway travel... in comparison to say a FRED or even even a class C diesel in this approx. length? I'm just asking this in regard to the driving experience... of course many other tradeoffs.... I just don't have much RV driving experience and at my age I don't want to buy a rig that is going to make the "learning" experience more difficult... :D I've driven rental box trucks and a Winne View cross country... but that's about it. Regrettably, the Sprinter chassis RVs are just too small for my DW, but just don't want to go "full size" coach at this time. I currently own a 28' TT, but either need a new tow vehicle or going MH.
We have put a Little over 8000 miles on our 34 foot this year. The vast majority of the mileage was on open interstates driving 70 to 72 miles an hour. No complaints. I have driven a 40 foot and it may drive a little bit better with the tag axle but wasnt in our budget. We primarily stay in state parks that are often small and harder to maneuver. We have been able to park in every park we wanted to so far.
Dan, thanks so much for the links to the older posts... I didn't find the last and lot's of great comments!
We have owned our 2000 U270 34' for 3 years and are the 5th owner. Bought with 145k and now have 161k including mountain passes in the west, open plains of the Midwest and crappy roads in the north and I10 in Louisiana. Have found no handling issues in normal driving but did install a SafeTPlus steering stabilizer primarily for front blowout "insurance" with the added side benefit of less reaction to passing 18wheelers.
You'll spend more time living in your coach than driving it so focus on where/how you want to camp and floor plans that focus on how you want to live. The kitchen is where the 2' difference is made up in the 34 vs 36. We eat in most of the time and for us even this smaller kitchen works great. Bath and bedroom sizes are equivalent but different floor plan layouts make a big difference. We have a washer/dryer in ours without sacrificing storage. Also remember that same 2' lost in the kitchen translates to less storage below. For us tho, there's plenty of storage for 6 months on the road. Water, grey and black are the same.
In same model years 34' has same horsepower as 36' so no sacrifice here.
Cost is equivalent for similar condition coaches but there are FAR FEWER 34' made so finding them is definitely harder.
Biggest benefit for us is the benefit of size...both in length and non-slide coach. We can get in and out of campsites easier and quicker and have more choices of the smaller campgrounds we often prefer. And because we are Foretravel we fit in well in the luxury parks as well.
Another falsehood is being passed along about wheelbase. I have a Porsche 930 with over 63% of the weight on the back wheels and a 89 inch wheelbase. I have driven it well over 150 mph on the Autobahn without any wandering. VW Vanagons are another example of a rear engined vehicle with a short wheelbase. The are several rear engined Asian bus manufactures that produce a 28 foot bus. A Foretravel's wheelbase is measured in feet, lots of feet. Unless the front end is out of alignment, there is a bad shock or steering wear, the shorter coaches will go down the road at any speed without wandering. Flexible sidewall radials coupled with the distance from the road up to the driver may give an uncomfortable feeling, especially on rough or uneven road.
Anyone new to RVs and intends to drive 75 mph should take a good look at the RV blowout video. It happens really fast and most people would never catch it before they were off the road.
Pierce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=HvxDp0iIi-I&feature=emb_logo
I've had all three Foretravels (34, 36, 40). In my opinion you don't really give up anything in highway handling with the 34'. This was a pleasant surprise to me. It is much easier to maneuver in tight spots and in tree laden parks (at least for this driver!).
Much less exterior storage in the 34' so keep that in mind.
jor
Our 36' is perfect. I am sure a 40' might ride slightly better. Personally, I wanted the maneuverability of the 36' into tight spots is quite noticeable.
If I was going to live full time, a 40' would be it.
They all ride like caddies!
Chris
I'm sure a 34 or 36 ft late 90's Foretravel will give you great service. But be careful of other brands that don't have the quality of the Foretravel, especially coaches built on the Chevrolet P-30 frame or any coach that has front wheels in line with inside duel,
You will get lots of tail wag
Just my 2c worth
Good luck on your purchase
Chris
Our previous RV was a 34' Winne with the Jet Air air bag rear suspension, we got our 36" FT several months ago. To say there is a better ride is probably the most understated statement I've ever made.
While I haven't ever driven a 40 footer, the ride on our 36 is amazing when compared to the Winne. There is no wander from trucks passing, no bouncing on the highway like the Winne, and so much quieter, we actually have a normal conversation while driving and can listen to music without having to crank it full blast.
We tow a Jeep and don't even know it's back there. Jump into the FT and you'll be happy. Not to mention how great this site and the people are. I gotta believe you won't be disappointed !
I drove a 19' Roadtrek on a 1996 Dodge extended van one ton chassis for 50,000 miles. The 36' 98 U270 much more stable. Have only 20,000 miles on U270. My favorite speed is 62 mph, it will cruise at 70 but what's the rush. That was also the sweet spot for the Roadtrek -62. A 36' Foretravel is a wonderful road machine, have no fear about road manners. We also like State Parks and National Forests. You will need some solar. I didn't fully appreciate the Foretravel chassis in comparison to other shorter motor homes when I bought it. Have a few miles in 33' and 25' gas class A rigs. A different world in comfort and control.
We have a 36 ft U270, it's one smooth ride at any speed on any road. We looked at new 36 ft shiny SOB coaches from Alabama and they have horrible tracking when on the open road.
Bought ours in April with 52,000 miles and have put 6000 miles on it, as well as new Koni shocks which proved to be the answer to the ever so slight wander. Absolutely no need for any add on steering stabilizers.
Love those new shocks, love our Foretravel, it's as good as the Kenworth we had and forget about trucks passing you there is no wander.
Buy it, love it, one heck of a coach!!
Being none too schooled or intellectually engineered, I tend to test operationally. Soon after purchasing our 4-year old '96 U270 from FT in Naga, we experienced a side-wind with rain in Montana. Only us and the big trucks were still moving along the Interstate. My wife got up and came back with kitchen towels to catch the water being blown in the driver's window seams to protect the switches located along the sidewall. 75 mph was not fast enough to direct this wind-driven rain away from the window. I was amazed by how well this machine performed in the wind and on the wet roadway. However, at the next exit, we got off, parked under the overpass, figuring hail would be next. I felt happy and proud to now own a motorhome that was stable and safe.
Cedwards, There can be and often is a difference between general theory and reality.
Don't pay attention to the theorists that say anything under 45 Ft will be unstable on the expressway. A Foretravel will be fine.
You will notice a bigger difference in stability issues because of the varying quality of the roads you will encounter than you will between a short and long WB Foretravel.
I can say this that I'm very pleased with our 36'. I do feel some push when an 18 wheeler blows past me but other than that it drives very well. Now I hate to say this but my 45' Newell with tag was more stable and nothing pushed that beast around. Of course the 20,000 pounds more probably had something to do with it.
cedwards,
I agree with Brett, that even the most experienced owners have trouble detecting differences in handling characteristics (34' vs. 36') in any given model year. Over the Unicoach model span of 1995 to 2004, the differences in frame design details (principally weight and trim level details) provided much more noticeable handling characteristic changes than the 2' of wheelbase does, within any given model year (and a 34' was not produced each of those years).
Have you looked at the thread that offers some observations and opinions regarding 36' to 42' handling differences? The thread doesn't directly address your question but it may provide you with some valuable handling insights, that relate to length, model year and trim level differences. The thread just exaggerates your question, but is somewhat scalable back to your original question.
Handling Comparison:36' U270/42' U320 (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=22974.msg177002#msg177002)
HTH,Neal
Wow... thanks to all of you who have generously shared your experiences and opinions! A couple of folks with whom I've spoken with have mentioned that one of the reasons they decided to purchase an older Foretravel instead of a newer "mass produced" rig was the incredible support community dedicated to keeping these coaches running.... They were certainly right.. THANKS AGAIN!
I feel better about continuing to search for a suitable floorplan, right now my DW isn't thrilled with the bathroom options in the shorter rigs but we'll see... ;D
I noticed Tiffin makes a DP in the 30' range. Without outboard airbags and with a massive rear overhang, I would not want to be driving it on a twisty turny roan.
I will say that we originally thought a private bath was the ticket, but the space in a walk-through, given you can close doors off at both ends and essentially have a huge bath and dressing area in one space ended up being perfect for us. I think the only floorplan you can't close off the bath from the bedroom is the AGDS. You can close all of them off from the living room.
Ok, so additional thoughts here. We considered this very aspect thoroughly. Look carefully at the lost storage by having toilet in separate room. We thought that was important initially but after spending time in both we discovered, as Michelle suggests, you get more space and privacy with the walkthru bath by closing the sliders to both the kitchen and the bedroom. And, you get lots more storage including space for washer/dryer combo...and lots more dressing room and full length mirrors for dressing.
Final thought is to look carefully at how toilet is oriented. Many walk thru floor plans have toilet tucked between a sink and shower, on a 45 degree angle. Not much "elbow room" for your knees. Look for plans where toilet is on parallel to the walkway.
Maybe TMI but believe me these details are a big deal in real life.
Yes, our walk through bath in the 36 footer is huge. Foretravels are rally designed for two adults so this setup is perfect. If you take guests with you a lot, there is a loss of privacy with the walk through that the side aisle bath has. When we took our English relatives with us including their daughter, we planned ahead for CGs with at least bathrooms and a shower not too far away. It worked out well.
Pierce
I agree with Michelle as to the roominess of the walkthrough bath in our year 2000 U295. We had another configuration in our 2003 U295 with a separate shower and toilet area. IMHO both spaces felt a bit cramped with that arrangement. Our toilet in the 2000 is in the corner, but I don't find it confined and I'm 6' and of average build. Having the sliding doors to close off the bathroom area for privacy works very well.
As Randy noted above, the angled toilet between the sink and shower does cause some "elbow room" issues. When we did our bathroom remodel (pictures are on a separate post) we took out the shower enclosure and replaced with a neo angle rod and shower curtain. It has made a huge difference in the space and we really enjoy the openness.
I had a 34' Safari on leaf springs and it did fairly well after I replaced the front bushings, shocks and added a Safe-T-Plus stabilizer. I have a friend who has a 30' Safari and it is really squirrely and there is nothing that can be done for it; too much weight on the back relative to the front makes for a very unstable ride. Unlike the Safaris, we have a heavy generator at the front which really helps with the balance. We avoided buying anything longer than a 36' for the reasons mentioned and we have a great ride and aren't bothered by on coming rigs.
Agree with Pierce. I wanted a 36 footer and Cindy insisted on a walk thru bath. Hard to find in a Grand Villa but it really gives the feel of more space from front to back and also allows for a larger private dressing room.
You can create much more space up front by removing the barrel chair and replacing the big recliner with smaller rocker/recliner.
We added a bigger 36" TV (now off the floor) and an electric fireplace. The extra footpace created is big enough for Max our 90 lb. Golden Retriever to curl up on instead of the couch!
Jerry
Last January we were in Key West and started thinking bigger coach, a bunch of folks with 40' Tiffins raves about them and made us decide that is what we want, family owned company (since sold) great service etc. then we started looking at the shorter 34 or 36 ft units and the stories about steering wander that nothing will cure. The engine overhang at the rear is not counterbalanced and the front wheels are not securely attached to the road surface.
No way were we going that way, and that's how we got thinking about those amazing Grand Villas from the early 90's that have us envy when they pulled in beside our Rolls International, Teton or Travel Supreme!
That is how we went from $150,000 used to a Fortravel U270 that we love!
Here's another pic showing the extra legroom created. Big difference in a 36' Grand Villa.
Jerry