The GFI in the bathroom finally decided to self destruct. After replacing it, the new GFI will not reset. It is sensing over 5 mili-amps on the ground. I have unplugged everything on that circuit. No joy. I have unplugged everything on the 110v AC except the inverter. There is no continuity between the hot feed wire and neutral or ground indicating nothing is on the circuit. No joy. Ideas?
Bad gfi out of the box?
Could it just be a failed new GFI?
New GFI wired correctly?
Roland
Yes.
I cannot offer specific recommendations, but this article might help. I had to replace some wiring in our house due to GFCI trips. Good Luck in finding it. Interested in what you find.
Chasing Ghost Trips in GFCI circuits (https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/grounding/chasing-ghost-trips-in-gfci-protected-circuits)
The GFI is good and I replaced it with a known good GFI. I wondered if there was feedback on the power pedestal but I Have two GFI breakers there and they work correctly.
Is one leg of the line monitor wired to that circuit. Behind the monitor are 2 plugs that go into wall sockets.
Here is the circuit layout.
Is the coach plugged into a GFI for shore power? If so, try a non-GFI outlet. Many times an outlet GFI does not "play nice" with coach GFI's.
Racedad, not doughting you expertise but I have inadvertently wired my supply and outfield backward and they will not reset
If I'm not mistaken there are several receptacles downline from the Bath GFCI
Just saying
Chris
Chris it is wired correctly and there are no GFI on the supply side.
Craneman the monitor is not on that circuit. There is only the things listed on the schematic. With that circuit de-energized I cannot find any other outlets or devices that are not powered other than what I haved checked. Somewhere the ground must be tied to another circuit.
One option to confirm that theory might be to disconnect the ground on the GFCI.
GFCIs work without a ground wire and is an acceptable way of providing protection in residential retrofits where there are no ground wires..
Let me see if I have this correct.
The old GFI started tripping and you thought it was a bad GFI
You install a new GFI, verify that the line wires are on the line side of the plug and load wires are on the load side of the plug, the hots are on the hot screws and the neutrals on the neutral screws.
You did no assume it was wired up correct before and triple checked that you have the correct wires on the correct spots on the plug.
The next step is to go in the middle of the circuit and remove the plug and disconnect the wire at the plug. If GFI sets then problem is in the circuit after where you split it. If GFI still trips then problem is before where you split it. Now go to the middle of circuit again and remove plug and disconnect the wires. If GFI stays on then problem is between the two plugs you removed, if trips then between GFI plug and the last plug you removed.
FPN ( Old GFI's could be wired wrong and still work. Too many people were wiring them up incorrectly so they changed the requirements and made them where they had to trip and not work if not wired up correctly)
The breaker was not tripping. It fell apart when a plug was inserted. The old breaker was wired correctly. The new GFI is wired correctly. Without the load wires connected it resets. Adding the load wires and it trips. There is no short between the hot and neutral. There is about 90 mili amps on the neutral and the ground. I do not know how the daisy chain of outlets is wired. When disconnected from the supply there is no current to the hot I still have the same ghost power. I have no indication that anyone has modified this coach wiring.
Does anyone have a schematic for how this circuit is wired (order of the daisy chain)?
is there continuity between the neutral and ground on the load side of the GFCI with it disconnected?
My '95 U320 had small surge protectors at some of the items that were plugged in. Microwave and tv's. Those can cause gfi problems.
Go through the coach and start unplugging anything you can. You might get lucky.
You don't have to know the exact route of the electricity from the GFI outlet to the rest. All you really need to know is which outlets are on that circuit.
I'd go at this problem this way: First I'd make sure that the breaker in the box is on, and then try resetting the GFI. If that doesn't solve the problem, I'd figure out exactly which outlets are on the circuit. Easiest way to do that is to have a light, radio, hair dryer, etc. plugged into each outlet, and that all of the appliances are turned on. If the only circuit that isn't powered is the GFI one, it will be easy to tell which outlets are downstream. Nothing will work on those outlets.
Now, TURN OFF the breaker for the circuit. Better yet, if you can, kill ALL power to the coach. Now go to each outlet on the circuit and temporarily remove and cap the black and white wires. If there is any question about the capping, tape it, too. Once that is done, turn the power back on and reset the breaker. Does it reset? Good. Turn the power off and reconnect the outlet that you think may be the next one in line. Turn the power back on and check that the GFI resets and that you have power at the outlet you reconnected. If you don't it means that one of the other outlets is actually the first one. Disconnect the wires on that outlet and connect them on another one. Eventually you will figure out which is the first outlet downstream from the GFI. If the GFI resets when the power is reapplied you know that the problem isn't there. Go to the next outlet and reconnect it.
Yes, you are going to spend a fair amount of time turning the breaker on and off, but better to be safe than sorry.
The first thing I'd do, though, is to turn the breaker in the BOX on, they try to reset the GFI. Some new GFI outlets come tripped and require that the electricity be applied in order to reset. Others may not be tripped right out of the box, but while convincing the wires to go back into the box far enough to allow the GFI to join them the test button is pushed, tripping the unit.
Chasing down something like this can have you talking to yourself, so take it slowly and keep good notes.
Probably any outlet you can plug something into is on that gfi circuit.
Including any that are outside. A little moisture in an outside receptical would cause your problem.
John actually on my coach there is a mix of GFI protected outlets and non protected outlets. The basement has one outlet in the pass through bay and one in the utility bay. Nothing is plugged in there but I will check for moisture.
Foretravel used metal boxes to hold the GFCI, if the wires so much as touch the box it makes an imbalance and off goes the power, pull out the receptacle and put a few wraps of electric tape all around the receptacle to stop any chance of the hot or neutral touching the ground wire or the box, once this is done if it keeps tripping it's a question of isolating the issue, unplug everything from the circuit.
try the tape, it would not be the first time a metal box tripped a GFCI
Does the GFCI if it's not in the box?
If you want to check if it's the GFCI disconnect the wires from the GFCI that feed the down line and see if it trips
Good luck!
Irish. I have eliminated the metal box. I have removed all of the outlets but cannot follow the wire to the end of the circuit. Nothing is plugged in. I have a wire chaser (signal generator/receiver) and can find the wires but cannot see where they go. Tomorrow I will remove the dimmer for the 110v light. Thanks for responding.
Racedad,
Which line monitor do you have? If you have the old analog style (Power watch) that has the RED and Green lights take it down and unplug it from the receptacle. Those bulbs are florescent and if the ballast inside of one of them has/is failing it can cause the GFI to trip.
Mike
I know that many will not agree with this, but I replaced the bath GFI with a 20 amp duplex outlet, due to occasional nuisance trips. I know that the purpose of a GFI is to prevent death due to an electrical fault. However FT did not put a GFI on the bedroom outlets, so there is no GFI protection on those outlets. I did put a GFI in the sanitary compartment and it feeds the outside outlet and the basement outlet, so I do have protection where I am more likely to receive an electrical shock. One could have a GFI in the bath and connect the other outlets that are down stream directly to the line from the CB panel. Install GFI's where you think they are needed (near a sink, etc.). One can also install GFI CB's in the CB panels, if you want more protection. Don't make the mistake of replacing the bath GFI with one rated at 15 amps because it costs less.
Jerry, I know you are aware of the safety protection you removed from the area near the sink in the bathroom and down line to the other before protected outlets by the detail of your post. So my concern is not you with an issue, my concern is after you are done with the rv. Would it not be more prudent to fix the "occasional nuisance trips" than remove a code safety device?
Racedad
Assuming it's the same as mine it's a 20 amp circuit so there would be 10 receptacles on it.
First thing is to trip the GFCI and identify what goes off, second thing is to unplug everything from the circuit, would be surprised if there are lights on the same circuit (not standard for residential wiring) and see if it still trips, typically there are no junction boxes on a run unless accessible , so you are now dealing with a limited number of places you would have a problem.
Bigger problem is that you cannot remove the wire from the receptacles because they require an obsolete tool to put them back together, receptacles are all plastic highly unlike they are the issue, more likely something someone has plugged into or added to the circuit is causing the trip
David,
Not sure I understand the relationship: 20 amp circuit= 10 receptacles. A 20 amp circuit could feed only one or a whole string of receptacles.
Said another way they are not closely related.
Brett
What I was trying to say is that there is a limited number of receptacles on a circuit, equally electricians hate to waste a good circuit so they max it out , which would generally be 10 receptacles on a 20 amp circuit.
No, absolutely don't agree with removing the GFI. There is a big reason they install these especially in the bathroom where there is a good chance of a wet environment and low skin resistance. A good idea to protect ALL outlets in the coach. So, just put in a new one as they do wear out. How about the next owner? Are you going to remember to tell him/her that you took it out?
Intermediate voltage, 110V to 440V is the most dangerous type. A domestic power supply voltage (110 or 230 V), 50 or 60 Hz alternating current (AC) through the chest for a fraction of a second may induce ventricular fibrillation at currents as low as 30 milliamperes (mA). The heart will not restart without a defibrillator and while CPR is mandatory, an ambulance with the defib unit is needed.
If the "hotrod" heater rod for the water heater is wired into that circuit, it may trigger the GFI if it gets wet or damp like in a rain or snow storm. Ours did.
Pierce
Yes, if an aftermarket "hot rod" is in the Atwood water heater (not recommended by Atwood) and is on that circuit, indeed it could be the culprit!
Sounds like your GFI is doing its best to do its job. Resolve the power going to ground and your tripping problem will be gone. #1 cause of residential fires is nails in romex in the walls. This is why most cities now require ground fault protection in kitchens,bathrooms,garages, and out doors. Arc fault breakers required in sleeping areas.
They work and are safe. That being said what a pain in the rump to find the electrical leak/fault. Good hunting
Scott
Ok Jack, good point. Since I am trying to sell my RV will put a GFI outlet back in the bath and let the next owner deal with the nuisance trips. Most of the time this happened when I was driving. I used to use a laptop with a map program (Streets and Trips) on the dash. The laptop was plugged in but would die after the GFI tripped, usually when I needed it. Said laptop is now dead and replaced, but no one is making map programs for computers anymore that will work like my old one. Smart phones have taken over that function, it seems. My old Tom Tom GPS unit with life time map updates no longer updates, seems I have to buy another with life time updates. Sorry I got off thread with my bitching.
Although there is nothing unsafe about having 10 outlets on a circuit that has a CB sized to protect the wiring, it is not good practice to do that. FT should have used 2 circuits with 5 on each.
Again, amps of breakers is unrelated to number of outlets.
Sure, they could have used two 10 amp breakers to supply 5 outlets each. Or one breaker for 2 (like with large draw such as the microwave) and the other breaker the other 8 outlets that would be used for low-amp appliances.
This is definitely not what I meant, which was two 20 amp circuits with 5 more or less outlets on each. If the wire size used can carry 20 amps then it should have a 20 amp breaker. All the wire for 120 vac outlets in my coach can carry 20 amps. The wire to the CB panels, transfer switches, etc is larger as it has to carry a larger load.
Jerry,
Sorry, I mis-read it. You are correct.
Yes, the WIRE size/gauge determines what breaker size should be. Whether one outlet or 20.
In my original comment about the ten receptacles on the twenty amp circuit it was understood that the wire is twelve gauge, because that's what Fortravel used.
Yes, wire size dictates breaker size if discussing maximum breaker size, but so does receptacle rating, most standard receptacles in the US on a twenty amp circuit are rated for a fifteen amp draw.
With that, the standard circuit has ten receptacles, it may have less, but not more to prevent overloading the wire or breaker.
For specialized circuits where there is a specific draw of (say) thirty amps, then there can only be one receptacle for that breaker with a matching wire size of ten gauge and the receptacle must be rated to match.