Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: kevo0000 on December 27, 2019, 01:55:24 pm
Title: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 27, 2019, 01:55:24 pm
hello everyone , just fitted a new Alternator , its working perfectly , charging all batteries vehicle and house, but I had 4 connections on my old alternator , but the new one is exactly the same fits engine , but its just slightly different it only has two connections and a black wire going into a third , the two small wires I have left and don't really know what to do with them ,one is for ign switch, so wasn't sure if I can just connect that wire to the big red terminal the same, and the other wire is supposed to go to a duvac, what is a duvac and where would it be situated and also what purpose dose it serve , il upload a couple of photos in a bit of old and new and maybe someone could advise me on this little matter, thanks kev
[fixed title typo to correct alternator brand = Leece-Neville for future searches - Michelle]
Title: Re: reece nevel alternater on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on December 27, 2019, 01:58:21 pm
What are the connections labeled on the new alternator?
Do you still have the diode-based battery isolator?
Is voltage output on the new alternator adjustable?
Title: Re: reece nevel alternater on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 27, 2019, 02:01:40 pm
hello everyone , just fitted a new Alternator , its working perfectly , charging all batteries vehicle and house, but I had 4 connections on my old alternator , but the new one is exactly
hello everyone , just fitted a new Alternator , its working perfectly , charging all batteries vehicle and house, but I had 4 connections on my old alternator , but the new one is exactly the same fits engine , but its just slightly different it only has two connections and a black wire going into a third , the two small wires I have left and don't really know what to do with them ,one is for ign switch, so wasn't sure if I can just connect that wire to the big red terminal the same, and the other wire is supposed to go to a duvac, what is a duvac and where would it be situated and also what purpose dose it serve , il upload a couple of photos in a bit of old and new and maybe someone could advise me on this little matter, thanks kev
What are the connections labeled on the new alternator?
Do you still have the diode-based battery isolator?
Is voltage output on the new alternator adjustable?
the same fits engine , but its just slightly different it only has two connections and a black wire going into a third , the two small wires I have left and don't really know what to do with them ,one is for ign switch, so wasn't sure if I can just connect that wire to the big red terminal the same, and the other wire is supposed to go to a duvac, what is a duvac and where would it be situated and also what purpose dose it serve , il upload a couple of photos in a bit of old and new and maybe someone could advise me on this little matter, thanks kev
Title: Re: reece nevel alternater on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on December 27, 2019, 02:05:15 pm
OK, from the picture of the new alternator, two connections are clear-- B+ and ground (-).
Either from installation instructions or by doing a search for instructions for that PN, what are the other connections??? Their information is far better than our speculation based on a picture.
Need answers to the other two questions (battery isolator type and is voltage adjustable).
Title: Re: reece nevel alternater on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 27, 2019, 02:35:05 pm
OK, from the picture of the new alternator, two connections are clear-- B+ and ground (-).
Either from installation instructions or by doing a search for instructions for that PN, what are the other connections??? Their information is far better than our speculation based on a picture.
Need answers to the other two questions (battery isolator type and is voltage adjustable).
yes I have a blue battery isolator which I think also is a reece nevuille, the middle connection goes to alternator , and the two go to vehicle batteries and other terminal to house battery. ive checked and I have just over 14 volts going into it from alternator
Either from installation instructions or by doing a search for instructions for that PN, what are the other connections??? Their information is far better than our speculation based on a picture.
Need answers to the other two questions (battery isolator type and is voltage adjustable).
the same fits engine , but its just slightly different it only has two connections and a black wire going into a third , the two small wires I have left and don't really know what to do with them ,one is for ign switch, so wasn't sure if I can just connect that wire to the big red terminal the same, and the other wire is supposed to go to a duvac, what is a duvac and where would it be situated and also what purpose dose it serve , il upload a couple of photos in a bit of old and new and maybe someone could advise me on this little matter, thanks kev
there just uploaded two photos , see what you can work out from that thanks kev
What are the connections labeled on the new alternator?
Do you still have the diode-based battery isolator?
Is voltage output on the new alternator adjustable?
I don't think I can adjust the output , its putting out around 14 . something volts I think its 160 amp , but it seems to be charging fine but just not sure what terminal on the new one to put the ign switch and duvac wire
Title: Re: reece nevel alternater on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on December 27, 2019, 02:52:20 pm
You may not be using the ign hot and DUVAC wires on the new alternator.
You measured 14 VDC where? The issue with a diode-based isolator is that you loose .7 VDC across it-- voltage at the center lug from alternator B+ reads higher than the two outer lugs that go to the battery banks. The critical issue is what is voltage at the chassis battery and house battery, not just alternator output.
Said another way 14.0 minus .7= 13.3 at the batteries. That is low.
Options: Put up with 13.3-- likely not the best option. Replace diode-based isolator with either relay/solenoid based isolator that does not loose voltage OR with a manual ON-OFF battery switch OR a smart battery combiner.
You have to decide how you want to do it (KISS vs $$ and automatic).
Title: Re: reece nevel alternater on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 27, 2019, 04:45:41 pm
You may not be using the ign hot and DUVAC wires on the new alternator.
You measured 14 VDC where? The issue with a diode-based isolator is that you loose .7 VDC across it-- voltage at the center lug from alternator B+ reads higher than the two outer lugs that go to the battery banks. The critical issue is what is voltage at the chassis battery and house battery, not just alternator output.
Said another way 14.0 minus .7= 13.3 at the batteries. That is low.
Options: Put up with 13.3-- likely not the best option. Replace diode-based isolator with either relay/solenoid based isolator that does not loose voltage OR with a manual ON-OFF battery switch OR a smart battery combiner.
You have to decide how you want to do it (KISS vs $$ and automatic).
I have about 13.7 volts showing on battery's whilst the engine is ticking over and a fraction over 14 volts coming out of the alternator, whilst I was running engine I also did a volt drop test I put the night heater on all of the interior lights and the kitchen fan , and checked the batteries again and they were ranging from 13.45 to 13.50 , so whatever I've done and connected, seems to be working fine , with plenty of amps, so I think IL just tape up the duvac wire, and forget it , not sure about the thin red ign switch wire, It seems to be hot all the time , even when ign switch is off, and just another thing , when the engine first starts there is about 20 second delay before power comes out of alternator, because earlier when I first started the engine with new alternator , I checked the voltage from big red terminal to the ground terminal and showing zero vokts, anyway I went and lit up a cigarette came back checked it and voltage was flowing lovely , anyway I turned engine off , then restarted it went and checked the volts at alternator again sure enough nothing , I must have waited about another 15 secs and then there was full voltage again , checked that the power was reaching isolated and it was also flowing out of house and vehicle battery terminal on both sides of isolater , I was thinking that maybe modern alternators all have a short delay before the power starts generating for some reason maybe
Title: Re: reece nevel alternater on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on December 27, 2019, 04:50:15 pm
13.7 at the batteries is certainly OK. Suspect more than 14.0 from the alternator, but all that really matters is what reaches each battery bank.
IGN hot should only be hot when ignition on. Of course no way of knowing how someone has wired it since leaving the factory. I would spend a few minutes tracing where that "always hot" wire comes from and suggest removing it from the source--an extra hot that may not be properly fused is not a good idea.
Title: Re: reece nevel alternater on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 27, 2019, 05:41:01 pm
13.7 at the batteries is certainly OK. Suspect more than 14.0 from the alternator, but all that really matters is what reaches each battery bank.
IGN hot should only be hot when ignition on. Of course no way of knowing how someone has wired it since leaving the factory. I would spend a few minutes tracing where that "always hot" wire comes from and suggest removing it from the source--an extra hot that may not be properly fused is not a good idea.
Yeah your right there , as far as I can see , I think I've already done a continuaty test and it seems to be attached to the battery booster relay , I don't know why or for what reason it's doing there yet , IL check that tommorrow or Sunday
Title: Re: reece nevel alternater on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on December 27, 2019, 05:48:17 pm
I know it is getting late on the other side of the pond. Tomorrow is a good day.
The battery boost relay/solenoid is a terrible place for an "ignition hot" lead, since one lug goes to chassis battery, the other to the house battery. NOTHING to do with ignition hot source. Certainly wired that way by what we in Texas would call a BUBBA.
Title: Re: reece nevel alternater on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 27, 2019, 06:53:45 pm
I know it is getting late on the other side of the pond. Tomorrow is a good day.
The battery boost relay/solenoid is a terrible place for an "ignition hot" lead, since one lug goes to chassis battery, the other to the house battery. NOTHING to do with ignition hot source. Certainly wired that way by what we in Texas would call a BUBBA.
Ha ha , yeah a big bubba I wreckon , it doesn't seem to be serving any purpose whatsoever , IL find out for sure when I disconnect it , if everything else still works then IL know it's ok to lose it completely ,
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: craneman on December 27, 2019, 06:54:58 pm
I know it is getting late on the other side of the pond. Tomorrow is a good day.
The battery boost relay/solenoid is a terrible place for an "ignition hot" lead, since one lug goes to chassis battery, the other to the house battery. NOTHING to do with ignition hot source. Certainly wired that way by what we in Texas would call a BUBBA.
Brett, he said the wire is hot all the time even with the ignition off. If it is hooked to the chassis side of the boost switch could it have been a sense wire?
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on December 27, 2019, 06:59:57 pm
Brett, he said the wire is hot all the time even with the ignition off. If it is hooked to the chassis side of the boost switch could it have been a sense wire?
YES, that is exactly how the SENSE WIRE would be connected.
Again, if no sense terminal on the alternator, better to disconnect it at the boost solenoid than leave an unfused hot wire in the engine room.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: red tractor on December 27, 2019, 09:34:10 pm
When does the fourth wire get power? Maybe someone switched the ignition and sense wires at the alternator so that they could have been hooked up wrong.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 28, 2019, 10:23:10 am
It's most strange , I'm up here now , engine running I've got 14.07 volts coming from the alternator on big red terminal, 13.3 at batteries all of them , I've got 3 banks of house batteries and two banks of vehicle batteries all with 13.3 volts which I'm quite happy with, but yesterday I thought their was some sort of delay in the output of the alternator , but it seems that everytime I switch engine off , and restart their is no output voltage from alternator , and what I have to do is touch the small red wire which originally went to ign switch against either of the two Mt terminals on alternator , not connect it just touch very quickly and the alternator starts producing power at the big terminal,. Those two spare terminals when I put volt meter on them ,each one is producing 7 volts, I know it's strange but then that is electrics for you, I've just noticed in the box that the alternator came in that their is a small yellow jumper wire with two red connectors , it says on the packet jumper from stator to trio input, but then their is a red warning saying this alternator has a regulator that doesn't require a diode trio, so I presume it's not necessary, the volt meter on the dash is all working showing 13.20 volts , I've uploaded a couple more photos , I can't help but think that maybe one of these two wires either ign switch or duvac which I'm still trying to find out what is a duvac ,should be connected to one of these terminals, IL try and find a wiring diagram for this alternator , I don't think this is a Reece Nevile genuine part it's probably aftermarket but other than the difference of wiring it's identical , it will be something simple why the alternator doesn't start producing power , it's like I have to switch it on seperatly after starting ,
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: craneman on December 28, 2019, 11:06:46 am
That wire is "exciting" the alternator which some alternators require. You will need to find out if the excite wire can be 12 volts all the time, and if so it needs to be hooked up to the ignition.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on December 28, 2019, 11:16:01 am
Yes, you will need to follow the instructions for your new alternator, not the old one.
As long as voltage to the two battery banks is not too low due to loss across the diode-based isolator, you will be OK. If voltage is too low, you will have to choose a "Plan B" for battery isolation that does not have voltage drop (my post above).
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 28, 2019, 12:34:18 pm
well, if that is all I need to excite the alternator into producing power, I could run a switch , a spring switch similar to battery booster switch between this red ignition wire with say a 5 amp fuse and then connect to one of the two terminals that seem to be the excite terminals , so after I start engine I just depress the switch once for a fraction of a second and it excites the alternator into producing power, I know in theory that should work , I don't want to risk making it a permanent connection as like I said earlier, these two terminals on alternator just below the one with black wire are actually producing 7 volts each while alternator is turning but there is 12 volts on ign wire, so it may damage alternator in some way by connecting it direct but if it is switched with a fuse just to make the alternator work and it does seem to work, I always put fuses where ever I think might need one , you can never be too carefull with electrics, im still trying to work out where this duvac is situated and what it does ,
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 28, 2019, 12:36:42 pm
oh and also im gonna have to find fitting instructions on line for this model alternator because there was no fitting instructions contained in the box when I received it
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on December 28, 2019, 12:45:05 pm
oh and also im gonna have to find fitting instructions on line for this model alternator because there was no fitting instructions contained in the box when I received it
ABSOLUTELY. This will be the key to making sure it is properly wired. Far, far better than our speculation on how your alternator is supposed to be wired.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 28, 2019, 06:41:20 pm
Just found a topic called what is duvac on the forum a year ago by moby, lots of interesting replies , haven't finished reading it all yet , but I'm learning alot , apparently the ign wire that normally goes on the small terminal is the exite wire , so as soon as ign is turned on then it excites the alternater into starting , in that case I will get the same effect by connecting the small red ign switch terminal to the big terminal on the alternator, , the duvac wire is basically a sense wire that tells the voltage regulator when to decrease and increase voltage to the batteries , so until I can get the correct diagrams of this alternator as to what terminal to fit the duvac wire for sure IL leave everything as it is and excite it manually , just for now , I'm like that whenever I get to something that can be akward IL leave it go and crack on with another job and come back to it , I wonder if any one out there would have a wiring diagram of this particular alternator, it's just unusual that their are no markings on the two terminals that put out 7 volts , they have got to be for something ,
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on December 28, 2019, 06:48:28 pm
Very unlikely that your new (and different) alternator will use a sense wire.
Excite wire-- only determining how your new alternator should be wired will give you the answer.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Twig on December 29, 2019, 08:19:28 am
Your alternator needs to be modified INTERNALLY to run dual voltage with the isolator. You need to find a qualified electric shop that knows what DUVAC is for this.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: red tractor on December 29, 2019, 08:41:17 am
Maybe the best thing would have been just to have the original alternator rebuilt.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on December 29, 2019, 12:37:45 pm
I wonder if any one out there would have a wiring diagram of this particular alternator, it's just unusual that their are no markings on the two terminals that put out 7 volts , they have got to be for something ,
The proper wiring diagram for your new alternator IS available online. There must be a data plate or decal on the alternator that shows the model number or part number. None of your photos (clearly) show this info, however, so we can't help you. You can either post a photo of the model number on the alternator, or simply search for the wiring diagram yourself. Just do a Google search for the alternator model number and you will find the diagram.
DO NOT connect a "always hot" wire (or a ground wire) to any small terminal on the alternator until you have found the correct wiring diagram. Blindly connecting wires to alternators is a good way to let the smoke out.
Those 3 small posts on your alternator are most likely AC terminals. They are not marked because no wires are normally connected to them. They are only used when testing the alternator or adjusting the internal voltage regulator output. See photo below:
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on December 29, 2019, 01:43:08 pm
The diagram in the link below appears to be similar to the photo of the back side of your mystery alternator. However, I would NOT assume it is the correct diagram unless the model number matches the one you have installed.
But just for the sake of discussion, you can see that the 2700JB model does not require external excitation and does not support remote sense. The 2700JB only requires 2 wires: the large positive and negative cables that connect to the large terminals.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 29, 2019, 02:42:28 pm
Here is photo with the type and model no. , Ive tried searching for this model but with no success
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on December 29, 2019, 02:44:52 pm
That photo shows the voltage regulator part number. The alternator body should have a separate model number stamped or marked somewhere.
Like in the photo below. Regulator has one number - the alternator has a different number.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 29, 2019, 02:56:09 pm
Ok ,I will have to look at it tommorrow for the alternator no. , So basically then it does have its own internal voltage regulater, so theoretically when it is running the voltage regulator will decide how mutch voltage to give to the batteries depending on the state of charge , less charge more voltage , fully charged batteries less voltage being produced , I've worked out how to excite the alternator, so as I said previously I can excite the wire using a return spring switch, that's all it needs just to brush over one of the terminals and it starts producing power, IL still keep searching for correct diagram though , thanks all for all your help
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on December 29, 2019, 02:59:06 pm
NO.
That regulator will supply constant voltage. Amps will vary depending on battery state of charge.
And, that constant voltage is reduced by .7 VDC as it goes through the diode-based battery isolator. That power is turned into HEAT-- hence the fins on the isolator to dissipate heat. Because of this, the "correct" alternator will have an external sense wire from the chassis battery side of the isolator. Basically, it tells the alternator to put out .7 EXTRA volts when are then lost in the isolator. All of us are saying the same thing-- do not guess on how to wire your new, non OE wired alternator. Confirm and wire it that way!!!!
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 29, 2019, 03:39:04 pm
just seen the alternator you posted chuck, thanks that does look remarkably light the back of my new one, those two terminals below the terminal with wire connected, are actually producing 7volts on each one, and those are the terminals I have to brush the ign wire over, just the slightest of touches that's all that's needed to power up the alternator, im not gonna throw my old alternator away, I think il get it serviced and keep it for spare.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: red tractor on December 29, 2019, 03:54:48 pm
I would take the regulator off of the old alternator and check the brushes to see if maybe one might be stuck and if it is clean it up and reassemble it. The Leece Neville is a pretty tough unit.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on December 29, 2019, 04:24:37 pm
Some "self excited" alternators require seeing a certain RPM before they start doing their thing. Next time you fire up the engine, try bringing the idle RPM up a little (800-900 RPM) and see if the alternator starts putting out voltage.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: John Haygarth on December 29, 2019, 04:43:47 pm
Amazon.com: New Regulator JB.12V HD - TRANSPO - L79000HD: Automotive (https://www.amazon.com/New-Regulator-JB-12V-HD-L79000HD/dp/B0178BQA48) Here is a link for that regulator JohnH
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 29, 2019, 05:07:02 pm
Just had a look at that link , on my new alternator there is a packet with a small yellow wire two red ends saying trio , but then there is a red warning on the packet saying the regulator on this alternater has not been fitted with trio , why supply the wire in the first place then , strange
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 29, 2019, 05:11:16 pm
Some "self excited" alternators require seeing a certain RPM before they start doing their thing. Next time you fire up the engine, try bringing the idle RPM up a little (800-900 RPM) and see if the alternator starts putting out voltage.
Some "self excited" alternators require seeing a certain RPM before they start doing their thing. Next time you fire up the engine, try bringing the idle RPM up a little (800-900 RPM) and see if the alternator starts putting out voltage.
Yes I've already tried that , but didn't work , I gave it a good rev for about 20 secs, and nothing, I know what you mean though because my car when ever I start it up and leave it on tick over , no voltage , I give a quick burst on the accelerator and it starts charging
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 30, 2019, 04:53:07 pm
Hya , I've determined what alternator I have , I went onto Riverside alternators and starter website , and found a picture of my aftermarket alternator , it appears my alternator is a Wilson 90047051 , I've tried alsorts of ways keyed in different words , but am unable to get Any wiring diagram for this make of alternator or any fitting instructions , so it still leaves me wondering where to connect the duvac wire and the ign wire , what I cannot understand if it's a Reece neville aftermarket product why do they make them different than original spec , has anyone heard of this make of alternator and possibly know of just one website that would give me wiring directions for all makes of alternator thanks kev
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Texhub on December 30, 2019, 05:03:27 pm
Wilson 90047051 alternator instructions - Google Search (https://www.google.com/search?q=Wilson+90047051+alternator+instructions&oq=Wilson+90047051+alternator+instructions&aqs=chrome..69i57.32691j0j7&client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)
Hopefully between these 2. You will get an answer. Vr Mark
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on December 30, 2019, 05:03:54 pm
As we have already posted, you may (or more likely may NOT) use those wires. Said another way going from a DUVAC alternator to another style, do not assume they will be wired the same.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on December 30, 2019, 06:47:09 pm
The Wilson web site says that 90-04-7051 is a 24 volt alternator that puts out 90 amps (at 24 volts?). I don't understand how you would end up with that alternator, but I would question it's suitability for this application.
Most of Foretravel coaches come from the factory with alternators putting out 130-160 amps at 12 volts. Many of us have upgraded to a bigger alternator (200-240 amp) to better handle the load of large battery banks.
You need to check with the supplier and confirm the actual voltage and amp rating of the actual alternator that you have.
Wilson - E-Catalog (http://www.wilsonautoelectric.com/Shared/PartSearch) (enter 90-04-7051 in the search box)
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 31, 2019, 03:27:07 am
Yeah your probably right , I didn't realise this , the alternator is definately 12 volt so that isn't the no. I've found I've been up and checked the alternator and I can't see a number on it , so when I went onto Wilson website , I just presumed that's what it could be because I just found a photo that looked identical , so what I have done is contacted Riverside alternators , and asked them to give me all the details about this alternator including part no. , When I ordered it IL be honest I didn't realise that this was an aftermarket product , I gave them the no of my original leece Neville alternator and they sent me the one I've got now , so for now IL wait until they contact me and go from there , meanwhile , a happy new year to you all from over the water and thanks for all your kindness in helping me with various different problems that I've had , especially to chuck and Jennie , wolf and nighthawk and anyone else that's tried to help me , my new parking brake chamber arrived last week and that is now fitted and up and running perfectly, I was supplied this part by anything truck .com a chap called Todd was very helpful , received it within 7 days from ordering , cheers all kev
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on December 31, 2019, 08:58:12 am
Yer Welcome - we try to help all we can, but it is sometimes difficult diagnosing problems at long distance. That's why we keep pestering new owners for photos when they have problems. It is a great help to see the item in question when trying to solve a puzzle. Keep plugging away and you'll get the alternator figured out.
While you wait on the alternator info, if you feel like it, I would be interested in hearing what its like driving a Foretravel in Britain. I assume your coach is still left hand drive? We have a few Forum members in Australia. They are required to have their coaches converted to right hand drive, which as you can imagine is a major project. So what is it like driving the coach where you are? I have driven on the Continent (in France) and I remember the secondary roads in the towns were very narrow and congested, even when just driving "normal" sized cars and vans. Do you have the same problem with narrow roadways in Britain?
Our members have all kinds of parking situations here. Some are lucky (like me) and can park their coach in their driveway or (even better) in a coach barn at their house. Some have to store their coach in a commercial parking facility. How about you - where do you keep your coach when not using it?
How about the fuel situation. Are the fuel stops any problem, or do you (like most of us) tend to use the same fuel stations as the big commercial trucks? What are you paying for diesel?
What about registration and taxes? In some states in the USA personal property taxes on a motorhome can be a real burden. How does that work where you are? Do you need a special operators license to drive a motorhome?
We'd love to see some photos of your coach, and your neighborhood, and any parks or places you go to camp.
Happy New Year back at you!
PS: In my "signature" I have added some info about my coach (look down below this paragraph). You can do this as well. It helps when you ask questions on the Forum if we can easily see what coach and equipment you have. Go to your profile page. Under the "Modify Profile" tab, click on "Forum Profile". On that page, next to "Signature" there is a box where you can add whatever info you wish. When you are done filling in the box, scroll to the bottom of the page and click on "Change Profile". Then go to any old post you have made in any thread, and see what it looks like. You can always go back and edit the info at any time.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 31, 2019, 05:34:59 pm
hya chuck ,had a reply back from Riverside alternatiors the part no. They supplied me is 55700cx , it's only 110 amp though , but it seems to be putting plenty of power, even when I have all of the lights house lights and night heater on , not that mutch voltage drop either , had it running for 3 hrs earlier, batteries plenty of charge now , all 5 in total battery banks , I've just uploaded photo of this part as you can see the terminal for 12 volt activation wire or excite wire it's the same, it has got it's own voltage regulator , so I haven't got to worry about over charging, to be safe I'm gonna get my old leece Neville repaired and keep as a spare , it probably won't be fully ready for the road till end of 2020, as I'm a continental lorry driver , so may be away for 3 or 4 weeks at a time then usually home for a week or two , so weather permitting I'm up there every chance I get , the Mrs said the other day are you sure there ain't another woman in my life , I said Christ 1 is enough , my grandvilla is the only other woman in my life , ha ha , I've owned it for over 9 years , and then I lived in it for a while when on my own , then I met my woman and I left it go for a while , anyway about 3 years ago I bought another 8.2ltr from adelmans truck spares ,if you go onto Google and key in Detroit 8.2ltr 1st start up for 3 years , you can see the engine running. it's actually been fitted back in motorhome now for 14 months , I started it on a pallet first , being second hand was a bit of a risk I know but it was absolutely fine , sounds lovely , anyway since then I've , fitted new front shocks , got the rears still to fit ,new master cylinder , gone on , just finished the hardest job changing virtually all of transmision hoses , pump to power steering , to hydroboost and back to relay valve , all pipes from there back to reservoir , new parking brake chamber all fitted and working last week , and all hoses to cab switch for brake , there were alot of pipes that I couldn't get at without dropping the water and waste tanks , so it was easier to cut each pipe either side of the tanks , and have re routed everything and left the old ones where they were , I had to do one pipe at a time cut it , then go to front and cut one of other pipes , and used compressed air through pipes to determine if I had the right one , then would mark them and take photos , the old pipes were made of steel and hoses as I'm sure you know , but I've got rid of all steel and have got all Flexi hose everywhere it was more expensive doing it that way but was a hell of alot quicker, next job fit the new rear shocks ,prop shaft ,I've replaced all new brake pipes all round , just got two more small ones from rear axle ,to rear brakes either side and new calipers front and rear to go on but that will be more or less the last job I do before I take it for MOT test , I don't really want to fit all new brakes for it to be left standing for maybe another 12 months , so am concentrating on everything else first, I've even cleaned up all steel parts and chassis with wire brush on angle grinder and then sprayed it with hammerite waxoil ,I've used gallons of it , but it's well worth it , it's absolutely brilliant stuff , repells moisture excellent, I've even took photos of what the front chassis and springs look like now it's been cleaned and sprayed looks like new , I'm actually getting quite excited about getting back on the road again, I took it to Spain for a month when I first had it, no problems whatsoever , I wouldn't never have anything other than a foretravel again , I've got alot of interior work to do, mainly cleaning cause it's been full of tools everywhere for a long time, but the dirtiest of the work now has been done , my brother is a carpet fitter and he's got all new thick piled carpet and underlay to fit for me when I'm ready but obviously that will be the very last job ,
As for question about the roads over here , well I live in a place called newlyn Penzance in Cornwall , right by the sea overlooking newlyn harbour and st Michaels mount in the distance, and IL be honest I could not park my RV outside the house , all of the main roads are wide enough, and mine is parked a few miles away at a place called grumbla , Google map it and youl see what I mean , there are one or two roads that I wouldn't dream of taking it ,but in general most smaller roads do have passing points , and there are alot of farms with big tractors and trailers , just have to be a bit carefull that's all, as for parking , yeah you have to think a bit where you go but IL always find somewhere , and cost wise , absolutely nothing at the moment cause it's not on the road , I pay £10.00 a week to park it at this place in grumbla ,he's a car scrap dealer , he's ever so good ,I can use his workshop whenever I want and go up there whenever I want to work on it , , but when I'm ready fuel at mo diesel is £1.25 per ltr that's about £6.25 per gallon, insurance will probably be around 5 to £600.00 per year , road tax believe it or not is £165.00 per year , it's actually cheaper to tax than my own car, it's classes as a private HGV, the same as a showman's tax rate , it's over 10 ton actually anything over 7.5ton so you need at least a class two category hgv to drive it , well I have a class one anyway so not a problem for me , however there are alot of people who believe that they can just drive one on their car licence , they just say I'm alright it's legal because it's a motorhome , if it's classed as an hgv you need a hgv to drive it , the thing is alot of American motorhomes are petrol engines ,they can be the same length as mine , and they can be so mutch lighter , like under 7.5ton and yes the average car driver can legally drive one , but personally I think , the way they categorize vehicles is wrong , they should do it on size not weight, , even the smallest of motorhomes and there are alot of really tiny motorhomes over here , but you should see some of them reverse , oh my god they shouldn't be on the road , and if they had to take a test ,there would be a very low pass rate , anyway is it cold where you live , nitehawk sent me some photos of where he lives says it was -18° last week , where I live the whole country could have snow , but vary rare we get it here , it's quite mild in the winter here , seems to be getting warmer every year . Christ it seems like Ive been writing this for ages , I started writing ages ago , then the phone rang and I don't know what happened , for some reason I came off the sight and when I went back to it , I'd lost what I'd written , I thought maybe it may have gone into a draft or something , but couldn't find it , is there away of retrieving unsent messages ?
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on December 31, 2019, 07:10:39 pm
Glad to hear you finally got some good info on the alternator. If it is working and doing what you need, then OK - time to move on to other projects.
Thanks for the info on what it's like owning/driving your motorhome in Britain. Very interesting hearing about overseas owners.
I live in the western part of Texas. Our weather is fairly mild in the winter, and very hot in the summer. Seldom snows here, but we do get below freezing temps pretty often this time of year.
About drafts of your posts. They are automatically saved at some regular interval by the Forum software. If you lose your place or can't find a post you are working on, just open another new "post reply" window. Scroll down below the box where you enter your text and you should see a line that says "saved drafts" or something like that. OR, you can go to your profile page and click on the "show drafts" button. You can usually recover most if not all of the post you were working on.
I guess you have already seen New Year's by now, so have a good 2020!
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: John Haygarth on December 31, 2019, 07:59:52 pm
Kev. We are coming to England next September for 5weeks and will be all around Cornwall at the start of the hols. I was born in Liverpool and lived there till 23 love St Ives and area and a friend is coming with us and he owns a 94 gv 240. Would be good to see you if you are not driving lorry. I have family still in N Wales and Lancs so come across every year just about. Happy New Year JohnH
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 31, 2019, 08:21:47 pm
Yeah keep in touch mate , hopefully by the end of the year , I might have mine all back on the road ,
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on December 31, 2019, 08:28:09 pm
Yeah our new year was nearly 1 and half hrs ago , I think we are 6 hrs in front of you , well happy new year to all anyway , off to bed now , thanks for everything
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on January 02, 2020, 08:08:35 am
Well ,I've started taking alternator apart, I've got the regulator off it and opened it up , is it easy enough to get hold of a new regulator , one of the brushes in the motor is definately stuck , if I buy a new regulator , will it come complete with new brushes , I think I may have blown the regulator when connected it up wrong ages ago, also the copper coil wires and armature ,is there an easy way to check it out with a continuity test?
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on January 02, 2020, 10:14:43 am
here is pic of my alternator inside , can the surface rust be be cleaned with very fine sandpaper, and do the copper coil windings seem to be in order, but will need to get it tested ?
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on January 02, 2020, 10:35:45 am
I keep getting same message ,error loading attachments , file could not be uploaded , perhaps there is a limit of how many I can send , maybe if I delete some of the previous attachments it may work , but then if I delete them will they get deleted everywhere ?
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on January 02, 2020, 12:48:43 pm
There is no limit on how many total photos/attachments you can upload to the Forum (but you can only upload 10 in each post). If your photos aren't uploading, either there is something going on with the Forum (routine maintenance?) or you are doing something wrong.
Try it again later.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on January 02, 2020, 02:06:33 pm
I was wondering if there was a limit on each post , IL count how many I've sent on this post and if it is 10 , IL start a new post , about stripdown and servicing a leece Neville, I wanted to upload the inners of it ,
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on January 02, 2020, 02:39:31 pm
I was wondering if there was a limit on each post , IL count how many I've sent on this post and if it is 10 , IL start a new post...
It's 10 max per post, not per thread. No limit on the number of photos in each thread.
BUT, starting a new thread about rebuilding the alternator would be a good idea. If you attempt to keep each thread limited to one single topic (which is hard to do around here) then it is easier on members who might be searching for that topic in the future.
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on January 02, 2020, 02:44:08 pm
Yeah , I will do that , I have just started a new topic , tried to upload a photo of the inside of alternator but getting same message again error uploading photo and also it wouldn't upload the new topic because the photo was attached to it , it's been like this now for a couple of days , I've tried on my laptop and my phone , but just won't have it , so it could be there maybe some maintenance going on like you said , IL start the new post anyway ,
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Pamela & Mike on January 02, 2020, 02:45:53 pm
, one of the brushes in the motor is definately stuck , if I buy a new regulator , will it come complete with new brushes ,
kevo,
If you have a stuck brush you most likely will need a new brush holder, 2 brushes, and the regulator. You will have to order each part separate. You may have killed one of your diode trio sets but I doubt you hurt the stator or rotor. Here is a list of the parts you may need if you have a L/N JB series that Foretravel used most of the time. brush holder- 79030 should be for a DUVAC brushes- 98650 regulator 100650 If you can find the diode trio +pos. 172-16001 -neg 172-16002
Get on the web and hunt up the Prestolite/Leece-Neville Technical service bulletin #TSB-1061 as it will help you out.
Mike
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on January 02, 2020, 03:53:08 pm
OK thanks very Mutch for that info , IL start looking for each part, cheers Kev
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: Pamela & Mike on January 02, 2020, 05:22:32 pm
Kevo,
Here is a TSB that will explain how to convert a standard L/N alternator to a DUVAC system Technical Services (http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_support/duvac.php?pf=true)
Still looking for the other TSB here on the Forum that I may have a link to.
Mike
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on January 02, 2020, 06:07:05 pm
Thanks for that , IL save that information , I'm gonna try and get my original alternator repaired, I was given some part no.s earlier for that which will also be very useful , mutch appreciate everyone's help , it was mentioned earlier in someone else's post that alot of foretravel owners have had their alternators converted from 160 amp output to 240 amp output , what would be involved in doing this , would it be a case of buying an upgraded voltage regulator ?
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: wolfe10 on January 02, 2020, 08:55:16 pm
With the 210 HP DD 8.2, are you sure you want to add the load by upgrading to a 240 amp alternator?
Do you drive short enough distances to warrant the faster charge rate vs lower rate for longer time (which is easier on the batteries)?
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: red tractor on January 02, 2020, 09:10:46 pm
Unless you have a large battery bank doubt that you would need more than a 160 amp alternator
Title: Re: Leece-Neville alternator on my 8.2ltr detroit, 1990 foretravel granvilla
Post by: kevo0000 on January 03, 2020, 07:27:41 am
With the 210 HP DD 8.2, are you sure you want to add the load by upgrading to a 240 amp alternator?
Do you drive short enough distances to warrant the faster charge rate vs lower rate for longer time (which is easier on the batteries)?
Not really Brett , I haven't really got anything that draws any power to that degree that would warrant needing that many amps , the roof air cons microwave , all work off 110 with generator running , so no I don't really need it, I do have a 6kw start up power inverter 3kw continuous running , and I can run power tools a small air compressor etc , but everything works fine as it is , so yeah why change it , my house batteries actually are Trojan batteries they use them in golf buggies in UK 225 amp deep cycle , each one is 6 volt so I have 2 wired up in series to make 12 volt , and then x that by 3 and then wired up in parallel , so have a total of 675 amps when fully charged , the vehicle starting batteries I have 2 x 190 amp 12 volt wired in parallel . 2 x 6 volt batteries wired in series was better than having 1x 12 volt battery as I was advised by a specialist, there obviously more expensive to buy that way but Ive always found sometimes that the cheaper option is not always as economical in the long run