I was searching the Forum trying to find a good clear photo of a safety stand in place, and didn't have any luck. So I am making this post with a couple photos for future reference. Hopefully the next time somebody searches for a safety stand photo, this will pop up.
I recommend (when fully raising the whole coach) the use of 8 stands - one placed near each air bag. Other members may do it differently.
https://www.harborfreight.com/class-iii-12-in-x-2-in-standard-receiver-tube-69879.html
Chuck,
Can you also describe your process for raising coach and do you let it down on the stands so they are actually bearing the weight before you go under? Thanks
I've also struggled removing the rear stands at times.
I also struggle to get the left rear out or in.
That's why I use 11" stands..... to each his own
Nice writeup Chuck ! Good pics
The rear air bags are usually going to be the last ones up high enough to get stands in. If it is always a problem consider shortening your stands by 1/2" or so. They should all be about the same length but all within 1/4" should be no problem. Mine are all about 11-3/4", cut from 48" receiver tubes which really weren't quite 48". A Sawzall with a metal cutting blade make it pretty easy. By hand, I am pooped just thinking about it.
Be sure you use wheel chocks when your coach is on the stands.
How I raise our coach:
Start the big engine, let the air compressor reach the point where it unloads (dryer purges) at about 120 psi.
On the HWH panel, push the "AIR' button (turns system on) and then push and hold the "RAISE" button.
As the coach goes up, the dash air pressure gauges drop. I hold the "RAISE" button until the air pressure gauges return to full pressure (120 psi). At that point, all 8 air bags are as fully expanded as they are gonna get.
Still holding the "RAISE" button down, I turn off the ignition, then release the "RAISE" button. The bags should retain pressure and stay inflated.
Then I go around and place the stands in position. I always have at least 1/2" extra space above every 12" stand when they are in position. If it is just a short maintenance job, I leave the bags pressured up. That way when I'm done I can pull the stands back out without starting the engine.
If the coach will be up on the stands for several days/weeks, I release just enough pressure from the bags (using the "DUMP" button) to drop the frame down on the stands. In that case, to remove the stands I go through the same routine as noted above.
This works for me. Other members may do it differently.
On my 2001 I do as Chuck says but I do not have to hold the raise button. Press once and it goes up. I generally don't let it down on the stands it is a close enough fit that they can not tip over and fall out. Bit if it is up there for a day or so I will. Do what makes you feel comfortable and safe under your coach.
If I am working underneath a common woven plastic patio mat makes sliding around under there pretty easy. I have a plastic boot tray, maybe 16"x20" where I put all of the tools and parts I am taking with me. And they stay there unless I am using them. Sure makes it easier. Planning ahead does too. I hate having to scoot back out to get the one thing I need that I forgot. Don't forget a flashlight and safety glasses.
There must have been a change between my coach and Roger's as I have to hold the raise button to raise the coach to the extended position.
I had a metal supplier cut mine from 1/4" x 2" square stock. Painted them bright yellow so I could not forget to remove them. Put a yellow paint mark on the frame so it was easy to show anyone where to put them.
On my coach if you let the raise button go the coach will return to ride height. So use Chuck's procedure mentioned above.
Keith
I also used 1/4 inch by 2 inch by 11 and 1/2 inch square tubing and painted them yellow so they won't be forgotten. You definitely do not want to drive around with those in. I bought it from a metal supplier and they cut it for me too. I only use 4, some use 8, and I put them on the inside frame (toward center of coach not on outer part after rear wheels or before front wheels.
Some coaches (like mine) have "momentary" raise and dump buttons - some have "latching" buttons. I don't know when the change occurred. Link below to the HWH Air Leveling System Text Book. Highly recommended reading for all Foretravel owners.
On page 28 (MI40.028A) and page 29 (MI40.029A) the two different types of raise and dump buttons are described:
https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml20635.pdf
Jbeem, I think you should use one near each airbag, four on end of the coach to keep from twisting the suspension I carry four with me when traveling and if I had to get under the front end, I raise it up and put all four there and leave it raised until I was done. With only one on each side the coach could come down perhaps 4 inches or more if the air bags went flat.
Agree if you are actually going to do work under there. For just crawling under for an inspection, I am OK with a total of 3 placed inboard of bags toward center of coach (behind front wheel, in front of rear wheel).
My 98 coach behaves just as Chuck's. I wondered if I had a problem or was doing something wrong. I appreciate the manual link. Bedtime reading. I use 8 stands 11 3/4 inch tall. Have thought about taking a 1/4 inch off the rear stands. 2 inch square tubing purchased at a metal shop. They cut them very square.
On mine (97) you don't have to press air to turn the system on. Just press and hold the raise button.
Also, if you have an air compressor you can just plug into the system and air it up without starting the engine. You should have one or two air fittings available.
jor
If you use an air compressor just be sure to have an air dryer between the compressor and the coach. You don't want wet air in the system.
Either I don't understand what you mean, or I didn't explain myself well. I put the stands on all four corners but next to the inbound airbag not the outer airbag or in other words on the airbags closer to the center of the coach. When the frame rests on the stands there isn't any twisting of the coach. Would it be better with 8 one next to each airbag, probably, but not necessary for a quick repair or inspection under the coach. If I was doing major repairs that involved the suspension, I would probably get another four, but for the repairs I have done already, 4 on each corner next to the inboard airbag is more than enough.
I think what Roger is telling you is the same thing I do. Use one stand next to each airbag, but only for working on one end or the other of the coach. Should you have an air failure I don't think it would be a good support on just one side of the linkage. I only have 4 as I can't think of a reason that I would have to work on both ends of the coach at the same time.
There are 8 air bags, you need a stand at each air bag to support the whole coach. At a minimum, for working on the front end put all four up there. Working on the back? Put all four back there. It is not the coach that gets twisted but the suspension at each corner when you only support one end of the suspension beam. There is an airbag ahead of and behind the axle at each corner supporting a beam running fore and aft that is attached to the axle. With one stand at the rear of the front axle and nothing at the front of the beam, you will twist the front corner suspension.
Four in front or four in the rear if that is all you have or get eight, one for each bag.
Can you simply just raise the back by itself without raising the front and vice versa the other way? Is their any problem with doing this? I usually raise the entire coach no matter what end I'm working on. I just feel that the coach should be kept level no matter what I'm doing.
John M.
Sure. I do it all the time. I think as long as we are not twisting the rig, we're good.
jor
OK Roger, I understand what you are saying now. Your thinking more of a situation where you are replacing air bags or the air system is messed up and the airbags are not holding the coach up and you need to hold up one end of the coach. I was thinking more like safety stands for that just in case something goes catastrophically wrong with air system and you don't want it coming down on you when you are working under it, which is how I have been using it. When I put my stands in, I am not using it to hold the entire weight of vehicle, it is there for that just in case situation. If I needed to hold weight of coach for some reason then I do as you suggest and use all four in either the front or back.
Craneman, when I am greasing the chassis or checking for air leaks, I do both ends together, but other than that, I can't see when you would be working on both ends too, but again for something quick like that you would only need one on each corner as a safety measure as long as you don't rest the entire weight of chassis on stands.
If you are under the coach working on it, chassis lube, air system, anything, and you want both ends up in a safe to work under the coach situation use 8 stands. I did a lot of front end air system work this summer and left the coach out of the barn while doing it. I had both end up on the stands, wheels chocked. It is not much $ for the safety. You won't survive getting squished by your coach.
Thanks to all of you for your input on this subject, my coach came with 4 stands, my understanding was this was all that was needed, I used them as JBeem described and thought I was safe. I will be getting four more and until then use the four on one end method. Thanks!!!
I just did it your way and it worked perfect, I could lengthen my blocks. Thanks for the great advice.
If you are not on pPerfectly flat ground and place all 4 tubes I n the frame , you will twist the bus equal to the amount of imperfection of the surface.
Maybe consider one end at a time and twist it less ,as the end still on air bags will compensate.
I'm a bit confused. If I can get under where I'm going with the airbags down, I don't need jacks correct?
Correct. If you have safe room with air bags completely deflated, you are good to go. This is often achieved by driving the wheels up on boards for extra clearance.
Dan if coach is setting on tires it is all the way down if there is space between tire and coach you are not completely down
Personally I'm too fat to get under coach without blocks I use 8 blocks when working on coach in shop on level floor
I want a pit but probably won't happen!!!!
Chris
It's interesting how shops completely ignore this safety practice. For example, I had Motorhomes of Texas repair my bulkheads a couple of years ago. I was there for ten days. The guys working on the bulkheads were under that coach countless times for hours doing the repair. No blocks. Same at the welders. I've always had a fear of vehicles crushing me and usually go overboard but these guys - no prob.
jor
If osha walked into a shop and saw this happening the owner would have a different outlook once the fines were paid !!!
Chris
Probably several explanations for this behavior.
Time is money. Takes "too long" to put safety measures in place for that "Once in a 100 Year" accident.
Ignorance is bliss.
Young people assume they are immortal.
Us Old Farts know better. If you have
ever had a vehicle fall off a jack or jack stands while you were underneath, it will make you a Believer.
I have.
I am.
Chris
If you put a pit in, then you would want to install an escalator so you wouldn't have to walk up the steps.
Just Kidding, but good thought.
Here in Shaky town, you have to worry about getting out from under fast, even using safety stands if your wheels are on blocks also.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/earthquake-likely-blame-death-man-found-pinned-under-car-nevada-n1028071
Ron—- the price of having big boy toys!!!
Chrid
jbeem,
If you are only going to use one per corner, it is best that the ones in the rear be placed behind the drive axle, not in front of it. The reason for this is that a frame block placed in front of the rear axle will directly apply force to pull the bulkhead joint apart. As the coach pushes the front of the "H" frame down, the torque tubes (AKA trailing arms, control arms etc.) are pulling on the bulkhead joint through the shackles welded to the 3" X 3" X ¼" transverse angle iron to which the basement framing is attached by the 17 Rolok fasteners. Sort of like a teeter-totter, push down on one end and the other end goes up, If a significant number of these Rolok fasteners are compromised, the downward force on the front of the "H" frame could cause or increase separation in the bulkhead joint. Probably wouldn't hurt a healthy bulkhead joint, but could definitely destroy compromised bulkhead and make a needed repair that much more urgent and possibly more expensive to fix. Even if the bulkhead joint appears to be fine, I wouldn't subject to that kind of unnecessary stress. It gets tested in use enough through the use of the transmission retarder.
Don
Build something Like our Australian member did.
Chuck I guess I missed that!! Any pics?
Chris
Follow Brian's innovations
The latest from OZ, (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=19408.msg139584#msg139584)
I place mine close to each air bag. I left mine at 12 inches I have about 1.5 inches after I raise mine.
Be on the lookout for air lines routed through the area. I have one airline I could pinch of I do not check and make sure it is out of the way. Actually it would likely cut it in two. On the rear drivers side on my coach. One of these days I will reroute the line to make that imposable. Some coaches could have wires in that area also.