Hello all!
My name is Mitch. My wife and I are working on making the transition to full time RV living. We are a working couple in our 30's. My wife experienced a life changing medical event in 2014 that has had us rethinking how we live life ever since. The medical event came out of no where, was not able to be fully identified and has potential to come back with even worse consequences at any time. This has made us realize there is no reason to continue waiting till retirement to live our dream of traveling the United States in an RV. We do not have any children and will not be having any, so why wait any longer!?!
We currently have a small travel trailer, only 16 ft long. We love it but this will not cut it for our full time needs I'm afraid. When we set off it will be my wife and I as well as our two miniature labradoodles. I work in IT and will likely be taking a remote position so its important that I have space to work in the RV. We started by looking at 5th wheels and after lots of looking we began to realize that a motorhome will probably fit our lifestyle better right now. We also do not like the idea of driving a big dually truck as a daily driver around town!
We looked at quite a few SOB motorhomes and started to narrow down the brands that we liked. We were mostly leaning towards Newmar, Tiffin and Winnebago because they seemed to be built the best. Our travel trailer is SOB and we knew what kind of craftsmanship went into building these newer RVs (not much), so we want something that will give us the least amount of issues and hold up for a long time. We thought that these brands were going to be as good as we could get in our price range... and then we stumbled upon an older used Foretravel posting on RV trader. WOW! This thing was a late 90's model and it looked almost new! We could not believe how nice it was! We changed our search to only look at Foretravel's and were impressed that they all looked to still be in reasonable condition.
So we have decided that a Foretravel is likely the best option for us. I started to do as much research on Foretravel's as I could and that lead me here. I have been lurking for a little while on the forums now, just trying to be a sponge and read up all of the invaluable information that is available here from you all. This has only convinced me that Foretravel is the way to go, what an awesome and helpful community there is around them. We unfortunately have not had the chance to see a Foretravel in person yet, because there are none for sale in our area. We have been in contact with MOT and are hopefully making a trip down there for a day or two later this month so we can become more familiar with them in person.
This post is mostly just an introduction but I would be very interested in hearing your opinions as well. We have been mostly looking at 1996 - 2004 models. We initially liked the more modern look over the older Grand Villa design. However the more we look the more those older models grow on us, they are so unique looking! We keep seeing some of these older Grand Villa's that are in pretty good shape and at very attractive prices. With the low purchase price that would leave us a very healthy budget for initial repairs/upgrades. Is there anything that should stop us from looking at these older GV's?
-Mitch
Mitch,
Welcome.
Nothing to stop you at all. The value of any of these older coaches is highly dependent on how they have been maintained.
Particularly if you are handy, one that needs upgrading/maintenance can be a reasonable choice. But, if you have to pay retail for labor for new air bags, fuel lines, brake work, etc look for one that is in top condition now and be happy to pay well more for it than one that has a lot of "deferred maintenance".
Welcome Mitch and Significant Other (DW),
Where are you located? Have you seen our Member Map? Might be a member near you who could provide a "tour" of their coach.
https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=GoogleMap
Also, the Motorcade Club holds events throughout the year. If one was near you, you could visit and get a look at different models.
Foretravel Motorcoach - Foretravel Motorcade Club (http://www.foretravel.com/motorcade.php)
Hi, Mitch, I'm with you on the great look of the Grand Villas....even though I own a U295. Either of them will do the job, but a lot of differences in drivetrains on them through the years. One thing to consider is if you plan to tow a car or trailer....and how much will it weigh. More HP is your friend in that situation. All coaches have their quirks and idiosyncracies, but if you find one you're seriously interested in just post up here and there will be some good insight offered.
By all means. Post your general location and I'm sure a Foretravel owner will pop up post haste to provide a tour.
The front structure change that occurred with the unicoach added around 1500 pounds to the front end.
Much bigger front windows and a flat floor to the front drivers and passenger seats and flat dash for possible decorating.
95 and 96 had a 24" front entry door and no screen door and drop through roof airs.
97 went to a 26" entry door and a screen door and ducted roof airs.
That allowed the bedroom air to be moved forward into the bath area lowering the bedroom noise level.
The ducted air allows either air to feed wherever you need it to by adjusting the roof vents.
97 and up went to regular upward opening cabinet doors and wallpaper walls versus wood paneling.
Not sure what year the change was but sometime after 97 the kitchen cabinets were made 2" deeper.
slide outs started in 2001.
Slide outs do take around 18" of space out of the floor plan for each slide out.
The later slide out coaches went to a tag axle frame/body construction which shortened the coaches wheelbase by moving up the rear drive axle to allow room for the tag.
That means less storage underneath. Quite a bit less.
Our 97 40' has the most inside and outside storage made by Foretravel up to a 45' coach.
No slides. No tag.
The U320 has aqua hot hydronic heating std. optional on the other models.
We do not full time and we still have empty cabinets in our coach in the back corners.
The shorter coaches are more maneuverable and more able to fit COE campgrounds around the country that our 40'.
Price goes up with later model slide out coaches of course. Plus the 2001 were painted from the Factory.
Popular floorplans were the WalkThroughBathIsland bed on the other model with a separate toilet area.
The WTBI allows a fairly large bath in the mid coach area closed off by sliding doors on either end.
The aqua hot equipped coaches have a separate thermostat in the bath area to control its temp separately from the front and rear which are on a thermostat behind the drivers head.
The aqua hot coaches have a separate thermostat in the tank compartment bay that if the baths thermostat is on allows the thermostat in the tank bay to heat the fully enclosed tank bays tanks. No special prep for winter use. True 4 season coach.
97 and up have dual pane windows. Less noise. Better insulation.
As was stated towing adds load. The bigger the engine the better. Especially in the Rockies. Plus the bigger motors hold the coach back a little better in gentle grades if downshifted.
The engine heats the hot water tank in non aqua hot coaches.
The aquahot coaches have the entire coach heating system and hot water from the motor while driving and for many hours after the engine is turned off.
Propane furnaces have a heat spread during operation of around 5 degrees. Aqua hot is about half that.
Aqua hot is moister heat. Propane is fairly dry heat,
Aqua hot is very quiet. Propane fans are noisier.
Gentle weather, flatter ground negate some of the heating and engine differences.
I sold Foretravels long ago and my experience was that almost every repeat buyer ended up with the bigger engines.
Easier to drive up grades without playing with the trucks in the slow lane was a good rational.
Almost all the newer coaches have hydronic heating.
Painted coaches especially with dark colors require more air conditioning run time.
The white gel coat coaches can sit in the sun with the awnings out without the gen running up to the mid 80's temp wise.
That alone was a big deal for us as we enjoy dry camping and any gen is noticeable in a quiet area. Any.
The aqua hot can use a strong 110 volt power cord and be able to heat the coach and the hot water system down into the 50's temp wise without using the built in diesel burner at all.
With the aqua hot and a diesel gen the coach can run the gen up to almost 2 weeks in a 40' coach.
I have seen full time live ins in a aquahot Foretravel through a Montana winter.
Did not run the coaches tank out running the aqua hot.
The electric element on works if turned on and 110 is available and the diesel side comes on as needed.
Either or both.can be used as needed.
I hope this long post helps your future decision.
Only a few coaches have the carpet stretched and laid not under the cabinets. Foretravel is one as was old country coaches and pre Monaco Beavers
[quote author=Triskat55 link=msg=382186 date=158343649 We looked at quite a few SOB motorhomes and started to narrow down the brands that we liked. and then we stumbled upon an older used Foretravel posting on RV trader. WOW! This has only convinced me that Foretravel is the way to go, what an awesome and helpful community there is around them. Is there anything that should stop us from looking at these older GV's? [/quote]
Hello and welcome to 'a small circle of friends'! We've been full timing for twenty years. Our Airstream MH got wrecked and I started looking around, I knew I wanted a GV but did not know about this forum then. Found ours on RV Trader after a year looking; paid top dollar, but it was totally worth it! GVs attract a crowd, like the Airstream! We're in SW Arizona if you want to see 'Rebecca'. This forum is invaluable! ^.^d
Every coach has its idiosyncrasy"s. Slightly different floor plans to better suit your needs. While I agree with what Bob said in general, there can be some exceptions to every case. In our case, our 96 has dual pane windows. IMHO we wouldn't be without them. We spent one winter in Ks with temps getting to -4 without a hitch. The coach stayed at 70 and didn't have to run constantly. Never had a problem with the water tanks freezing with the heated bays. We did leave the cabinets open so air would circulate as a precaution, but I personally think it would have been fine with the doors closed.
For our first RV, I didn't want slides because of the loss of storage space, possible maintenance and cost. I already had a huge learning curve ahead of me without adding another component in the mix. For others, I'm sure that not having a slide out would be a deal breaker. Only you two can decide that.
We all have our wants/needs and not too many are exactly alike. When I first found Foretravels, I fell in love with the GV body style. Still do love it, but the DW felt more comfortable in the bus style. I went with the 320 because I wanted the Aqua Hot. For me a must, for others you couldn't give them one. Different strokes.
Do your research and look at as many coaches as possible. Happy hunting. Keep asking the questions, most of the forum members love to share their insights and feelings about their coaches. I firmly believe that they have better insight than me, but I still add my free advice in. You get what you pay for it. :))
Larry
Welcome. Your first trip to MOT will turn everything you thought upside down. It really is the best place to see many options including trims, lengths, and floor plans. We looked for months before we found what we wanted. Some look for years!
Glad to have another slightly less than 40 year old couple Forwtraveler.
Thank you all so much for the welcome, info, and insights! Some great stuff brought up here that we need to think about.
We are located in Loveland, CO. Chuck and Jeannie, that is a great idea, I cannot believe I missed the member map! Looks like we do have a few members peppered on the map around us.
We will be pulling a smaller towed, possibly something like a Honda CR-V. I had not thought much about the size of the engine in the coach, but it sounds like I should keep that in mind.
Like Larry, I think we are looking to get a coach with no slides to avoid the possible maintenance and cost that they can add. The extra storage space for full timing would also be great. However like Eric and Alena said, our trip to MOT may change that, I guess we shall see! We are on the fence about the AquaHot system and so far have not been looking at coaches just because they do or do not have the AquaHot. However Bob's post has really made me think. We were worried that it seems to have the potential to get expensive fast if something goes wrong, BUT there is a good chance we will be spending time time in colder climates so it really might be worth it.
Mitch; we have full timed in a non slide '98 U320 and now in a slide 2000 U320. Both have full body paint. Our '98 had the M11 450 cummins and our 2000 the same engine. Both had the Aqua Hot system and yes, there is a love hate relationship with them, but when they are working , they are the best heater out there. We love our 1 slide coach. Just enough room for us without too many holes in the coach. Yes, slides do compromise your structure and more is not always good. Also, one more thing to go wrong, fix, repair, costs! Good luck in your search and I'm sure that some one on here will be close enough to you to allow you both to tour the rig and get some ideas. Welcome to the fold!
One nice thing about you living in Loveland and having an AquaHot. The AquaHot factory/HQ is located just 28 miles South of loveland in Fredrick.
Welcome to the forums. Many of us started out the same way. Asking for advice, then having a member show us their coach before buying.
These coaches are built well but are not without issues.
Personally I would buy from a forum member who can demonstrate continued upgrades and maintenance.
First define your budget and the amount of work you're prepared to do. Add at least 20% on top of that for repairs and upgrades. Then have it looked at by a Foretravel owner. Some think floorplan is the most important, some the add-ons. Higher milage is better than lower, as these beasts don't like to sit much.
What I was told was look for a 1996 to 2000 model non slide. That's what I went with and it fit my budget. Also know that financing these guys is very difficult, and most of us would say don't do it.
Take your time and find one that fits your needs. Our classified section is a great place to start.
Good luck.
Oh, the wonderful time you have ahead of you!! I wish we were still on the road full time! In our case, health issues caused us to go to a stick and bricks home after 5 years of roaming ... and I would not trade those years for anything. My ONLY advice on the type of floor plan that you choose is to be SURE that you have a direct drop from the commode into the black tank, and NOT have to rely on a vacuum type/marine system. My battles and relationship with our particular Sealand Magnum Opus "Turbo Turd 3000" has become legendary. Simple is GOOD. In my opinion, a commode should not need an electronic brain OR teeth to eliminate the black product.
Talk to anyone near you!! All the folks here went through the learning curve. Other brands may be tempting, but part of the REAL value of a Foretravel is THIS FORUM. A quick look at owner sites for other brands will tell you that truth.
We full timed 12 years in our 2001 U270- 36 ft no slide. I did make some upgrades over the years, solar, upgraded batteries, MCD shades, etc. It was our home and we made it our way. We are no longer full timing and sold our coach to a new Foretravel owner ( Wendy) who is just starting her full timing adventures. If we were still full time, we would still be in our Foretravel.
Hope you find the Foretravel that works for you and then let the adventures begin.................. ^.^d
I love the looks of the Grand Villas but the mid entry and raised driving area cause a lot of precious space to be unusable. I think the bus style is a better use of interior space.
jor
Welcome to the Forum.
MOT is a most recommended starting place to see the different models and floor plans.
It really helped us decide what we DID NOT want (slideouts, walk through bath).
Don't overlook the "Classifieds" here on the Forum, there are some really fine machines located there.
We purchased from a Forum member, when we "search" the Forum we get tons of info about our coach.
The recorded history of what's been done, and to a large extent where it's been for the past 11 years.
We talk to the previous owner regularly and have a great friendship with him.
That's a depth of knowledge you just cannot get from a dealer.
Take your time
Happy hunting!
Mitch, we've been full-timing in our 1993 U300 for six years now, and love it. We towed a Jeep Liberty at first, but now tow a 2015 Lincoln MKT. The Foretravel doesn't even know whether there is a car back there or not.
Our plans have changed quite a bit since we started fulltiming, and as a result our Foretravel and MKT are for sale. See the classifieds for the full information. I had eye surgery last week, so my vision isn't great right now, but I can still get on the confuser for a bit. Send me a PM and I'll send you my phone number.
I do like the mid entry GV. As was posted the mid door does lose some space inside and underneath.
A 40' with a mid door has more space to start with so not as much of an issue.
Folks with more girth may need more space and slides versus the few skinny owners. Haha.
Just an offer but we live about one hour north of MOT in Longview if you want to check out our rig. There are a few others in the area I am sure you could see at the same time.
As I posted already IF you are a cold weather resident/user and will have some power full time in freezing weather the aqua hot with its separate thermostats and the ability to add in the much stronger diesel burner would be a large asset.
Our 97 has one 1500 watt or so electric element which is good to the low 50's temp wise.
Not sure what years but much later aquahots have dual electric elements. 2 x 1500 watts?
Even better for real winter without needing the diesel part.
I think those would be later than your 2005 parameters but maybe not.
The dual element units would require much higher power input of course to operate and may still require the diesel side.
Most would just winterize their coach with potable antifreeze where needed if stored where below freezing temps would be present.
A Foretravel has insulated lower compartment dividers, insulated compartment doors and a insulated floor.
Helps. But winter is unusual for rv'ers. Rare to have any rv useable in winter. Or want to.
While I agree the Aqahot is a great option for extended cold-weather use, the propane furnaces are just fine for all but the most extreme conditions. And, like most everything in today's world there is a trade-off for comfort/performance VS complexity.
We have dry camped in 17 degrees F temps with just propane heat. No real issue. Somewhat strangely close to the most southern place we had the coach. We had just left the Monarch Butterfly Preserve in Mexico and spent the night at Los Azufres at over 11,000'. We were fine. Dropping down (OK WAY down to 7000') in Patzcuarco and we were back to "glad we chose the KISS way".
Perople often seem to include the Aqua-Hot in the "complexity" category. In our experience in nearly 8 years of ownership our 25-year-old Aqua-Hot has been a real blessing and has been completely trouble-free except for the tempering valve (installed externally to the actual Aqua-Hot) which has not reacted well to extended extremely hard water operation. I personally would not want to go back to the complexity of a separate propane/electric hot-water heater and one or two propane furnaces. In my experience my Aqua-Hot is in the non-complex category!
True, however, being from the NW, selling and delivering. rvs thru the winter was done. I was always amazed when asking experienced rvers if they wanted their new, or new to them, coach winterized or not for their walkthrough, and their answer was, not.
Several customers come to mind with one customer in particular, coming to mind, they fulltime, in a 45 ft DP, only spending their winters in ski areas.
Personally I always have avoided wintering in a cold area. This past winter, Nov and Dec were unusually warm, with only a handful of low 20's nights. We made it thru fine in the FT. I monitored basement temps, was pleasantly surprised that temps stayed above freezing (our daytime temps, however were as I said, unusually warm.)
So Mitch. Best of luck on your search for a FT. No lack of opinions and excellent experiences on this forum. To a great extent your research will provide you, hopefully, with a better overall experience.
Do to personal taste, experience, and budget I prefer older rvs. My perfect year now is a 1997, it could have just as well been a 1992. As you can see from my signature, I've owed 3, 8.3 Cummins. My minimum criteria is a 6 speed Allison, having had others. And now min criteria is a FT, as I know its value.
Do make your purchase sooner than later, and most of all, have fun. I've met several young families with similar ability to work, health issues, etc., all have told me, "I wish we had started this sooner, we are having such a good time." I'll try to watch your posts. The Pacific NW is exceptionally friendly to rv travel from May to Oct., so include that on places to see.
We love the winter months for RVing. Keep in mind we usually don't venture much further north than Arkansas. The parks are usually empty and it feels like we have everything to ourselves. We love state parks and primarily stay in state parks in Texas, Arkansas, and a little of Louisiana and Oklahoma.
We usually use an oil filled portable radiant heater to keep the coach warm. I have only ever turned the propane furnace one once when the electric heater wasn't keeping up.
There are always multiple options and it comes down to what do you really want to do and what are you willing to do to make your goal happen.
1st...
A HUGE WELCOME to Our Campfire...Pull up a stump and sit a spell...
We have been fulltiming for less than a year (Altho have used our coach in sub zero weather without any issues..(just put 2 100w bulbs in the hose reel/sewer bay) Currently expecting low 20's / high teens for the next few nights..
(Just love that Q/H)
Our coach is an '02 ,U-320, 40' with tag, walk thru bath (kinda like an ADA bath.. lottsa room)
And a single living room slide.
Note
These single slide coaches are fully usable/livable with everything "closed up" makes a difference when You are somewhere that doesn't have the room to extend the slides..ie: Wally World, rest areas. back lot of truckstops and of course those hidden fishing holes..
"What I was told was look for a 1996 to 2000 model non slide. That's what I went with and it fit my budget. Also know that financing these guys is very difficult, and most of us would say don't do it."
I financed my 97 U320 without much problem at all. So far as I know anyone can do what I did. We'll be paid off soon!! By the way if anyone wants to know how I did it feel free to ask or PM.
I ski so I have done extra insulation and I think I could live in it quite comfortably at -10 to -20. If it is that cold I don't want to be there.
0 is almost to cold to ski. I had a Monaco Dynasty and it was 0 F for a few days and it was comfortable and they have poorer insulation that the Fortetravel so I had to do a lot more to insulate it. I have a dehumidifier which makes a big difference. Almost no moisture
on the windows. I also just dry camp.
Old guy we went skiing in propane coaches with exposed tanks underneath in the 80's.
Was exciting. An adventure. Got to -32F. once.
Sure would be easier in our U320. Easier in your 36' versus our 40'.
Skied at -12 in New Mexico.
Not fun in the shade. Bought solar alpha fabric suits. Cold.
Thank you all for the great information!
We were lucky to have a forum member in our area reach out to us and we were able to go see his non slide U295 this past weekend! He did an amazing job of walking us through the whole coach and showing us the things that make a Foretravel special. He took a few hours of his weekend to show us and we had some great conversation, thank you so much Racedad, it was great to meet you!
We are now 100% convinced that we are on the right track with Foretravel. It was the most solid coach we have ever seen in person, a lot of thought put into the construction. We have now been jokingly referring to our current little SOB travel trailer as the "paper mache trailer"! :D
We are also very lucky to have a couple long time forum members reach out to us about possibly parting with their coaches. It may even work out that one of these will be the one, they sure are nice and have been well taken care of.
At the end of the day, there are two ways to get into this stuff. Pay enough money to purchase a turn-key operation, or if you have the necessary knowledge and skills purchase a fixer-upper.
As our Siata project attests we prefer the latter. We purchase the most original, least abused machinery we can find and take care of the problems ourselves. But this course is not for the faint of heart and does require certain knowledge and manual skills.
We now have a much needed toad, and thanks to the Covid-19 outbreak I don't need to worry about our renovations being interrupted by, you know, travel.
I have a 1 slide 40' 2000 U320 that will be on the market in a couple of weeks. Located near Houston
This is our second Foretravel and we have full timed in both and love it! Great coach, well put together, with factory assistance still available, parts, etc. and good for below zero temps as well. Good luck in with your search for your coach to full time in!