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Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: BnBClark on March 28, 2020, 10:36:59 pm

Title: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: BnBClark on March 28, 2020, 10:36:59 pm
I have a 2004 foretravel with Cummings and Allison 4000. On my trip to get it serviced the transmission temp got to 237 And would only drop to 230-235. Coolant temp was in the normal range 188-195. the trans temp usually stays in that range. Highest I have ever seen it was 214. Got to the service center and checked on the keypad and it showed normal. No codes showed up either. it seemed a little sluggish but seemed to shift ok. Service center said the dipstick was way overfull. The color was reddish brown not like trans-syn. Didn't seem to have any coolant in it. Coolant wasn't low. Decided to change all trans filters and put in new fluid. They put in 8 gallons as usual dipstick showed high and the keypad showed 3 qts high. Drained out the 3qts. Keypad showed ok but the dipstick was still high. Drove 20 miles and the temp got to 215 and wouldn't come down as would be expected with unit in neutral. Fans were running in high all the time. Usually they drop to low in a couple minutes after stopping. any help would be appreciated. Thanks Bruce
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: John S on March 29, 2020, 08:30:19 am
That is running hot. I had to replace my trans cooler a while ago when mine did that. The overfill bothers me but when new fluid was added it showed the same so that is good.
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on March 29, 2020, 11:12:45 am
Attached are a couple of ATF color and temperature charts. Good to pull the dipstick and smell the fluid. Any burned odor indicates a problem. A simple ATF change does not get rid of all the contaminated ATF as quite a bit is still left in the torque converter.

Pierce
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: BnBClark on March 29, 2020, 01:47:02 pm
Thanks Pierce,
We were between slightly used and replaced.  Replaced fluid and filters but I am still concerned about the temperature.  I'm not sure which is the transmission cooler on the passenger side.

Thanks
Bruce
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: Woody & Sitka on March 29, 2020, 06:28:18 pm
When I was at MOT in Nov, I had them blow out the radiator and trans cooler...it looked like a Sahara dust storm in the shop.  I had driven in slushy, sanded roads, which contaminated the fins.  Just a thought to try before replacing expensive kit.  Woody.
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: wolfe10 on March 29, 2020, 06:39:08 pm
YUP, if the side of the coach is dirty, many, many times that amount of dirt has been sucked into the CAC and radiator.  It is behind the rear tires, so lots of extra dirt enters.
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: craneman on March 29, 2020, 07:52:43 pm
In the first post the engine temps are normal. The trans. cooler would not be affected by dirt in the fins if the engine is running normal.
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: BnBClark on March 29, 2020, 08:06:14 pm
Thanks all, I am at MOT and the first thing they did was blow out the fins.  It was very dusty but didn't seem to help as much as I had hoped.  Drove it to Douglas ~ 20 miles and the temp was up to 215 and took a long time to drop.  Granted there are a lot of hills but I also drove on Hwy 59 and it kept gradually climbing and never dropped much even just idling.  On our 2004 U320 there are 2 coolers on the passenger side a big one and a little one.  Doesn't anyone know which one is the transmission cooler and what the other one is?
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: wolfe10 on March 29, 2020, 08:26:50 pm
Actually, no "hills" between Nacogoches and Douglas that should increase transmission temperature.

SO, let's start with the basics: Are  there any Allison codes-- like torque converter not locking up???

If you need instructions on checking (easy from the driver's seat, but only once the transmission is warm) let us know.
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: BnBClark on March 29, 2020, 08:29:45 pm
No there are no codes. Checked that on Friday.  Once the temp gets higher than normal the fans are running on high and it really doesn't seem to bring the temp down.
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: wolfe10 on March 29, 2020, 08:44:38 pm
Fan speed is determined/controlled by engine coolant temperature, not transmission temperature.

Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: BnBClark on March 29, 2020, 09:20:26 pm
I guess my point is the fans are on high but it doesn't seem to bring the Transmission temperature down.  Before my trip down here a week ago the transmission and coolant temperature stayed pretty close.  But now the engine temp will drop but the transmission temperature never does.  It just keeps climbing.  I don't understand.
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: John44 on March 29, 2020, 09:48:59 pm
Can you use a temp gun to check the lines or oil pan to verify the temp?
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: BnBClark on March 29, 2020, 09:59:47 pm
Yes the sump temperature was about 195 when the gauge and DIC were showing ~215.  I am trying to figure out which cooler is the transmission.  The larger one looks like it goes to the transmission cooling ports, but then it also looks like it connects to the hydraulic cooling fan motors, which doesn't make sense.  The smaller cooler hoses go up from the side compartment and I can't seem to find them to trace them.  Thanks for the help, and appreciate any ideas.
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: craneman on March 29, 2020, 10:03:42 pm
Thanks all, I am at MOT and the first thing they did was blow out the fins.  It was very dusty but didn't seem to help as much as I had hoped.  Drove it to Douglas ~ 20 miles and the temp was up to 215 and took a long time to drop.  Granted there are a lot of hills but I also drove on Hwy 59 and it kept gradually climbing and never dropped much even just idling.  On our 2004 U320 there are 2 coolers on the passenger side a big one and a little one.  Doesn't anyone know which one is the transmission cooler and what the other one is?
You have a fuel cooler, radiator, CAC and hydraulic cooler on the passenger side. Not sure what you are calling the big one? Either CAC or radiator. Your trans cooler is on the passenger side of the engine down low and is a cylinder.
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: BnBClark on March 29, 2020, 10:13:12 pm
Thank you Craneman, so is it just air cool and not influenced by the radiator and the cooling fans?  Does it have what looks like a quick connect on the end of it?
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: craneman on March 29, 2020, 11:05:25 pm
It is a heat exchanger water cooled.
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: BnBClark on March 29, 2020, 11:13:55 pm
Ok thank you very much!
Title: Re: Looking for info on Allison 4000. What is to hot?
Post by: Dave Larsen on March 30, 2020, 07:53:48 am
Here's a link with cooler info:

Transmission cooler arrived (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=30722.msg267203)