Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: dans96u295ft on April 02, 2020, 09:33:59 pm

Title: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: dans96u295ft on April 02, 2020, 09:33:59 pm
Ok. I filled my fresh tank and got to thinking, if I walked away and forgot it's hooked up to city water and filling, What happens after it's full and still on and I'm not there to shut off?. Does it equalize and stop filling?
Thank you
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on April 02, 2020, 09:37:23 pm
If it's like mine it will pour out the overflow and keep doing so until the water is shut off.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: stevec22 on April 02, 2020, 09:52:36 pm
If it's like mine it will pour out the overflow and keep doing so until the water is shut off.

Mine has done this a few times. 

I always cringe when I think about my rear bulkhead.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Dub on April 02, 2020, 10:07:07 pm
You need to stay close when filling.. The overflow is in a bad place and dumps the overflow in a place  that needs no water.Remove the panel that prevents you from seeing how full the tank is and add a direct fill.. Search will show you how it's done.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on April 02, 2020, 10:08:11 pm
If you have an electric fill valve here is a solution.  If not it can be used for an alarm buzzer or light.
Water Fill Valve Auto Shut-off (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=32334.0)
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Lt403 on April 02, 2020, 10:23:25 pm
Mine has an automatic shut off.
But I'm still very attentive.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: MisterEd on April 02, 2020, 10:25:48 pm
Aside from getting the rear bulkhead wet, plan on staying-put for a few days... since you're not getting out of the mud hole, you just created, anytime soon.  ;) 
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: AC7880 on April 02, 2020, 11:10:37 pm
Ok. I filled my fresh tank and got to thinking, if I walked away and forgot it's hooked up to city water and filling, What happens after it's full and still on and I'm not there to shut off?. Does it equalize and stop filling?
Thank you

On my previous coach with no auto  fill shutoff, I put a large rubber band around my hand until I shut off the fill.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on April 02, 2020, 11:23:55 pm
As others have said, don't do that.
I recommend you te how long it takes to fill 3/4 of the way, then use your smartphone and set a timer.
Direct fill will fill your tank much faster.
I plan on modifying the tank overflow as well one of these days.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: valento on April 03, 2020, 02:28:14 am
We are here at FOT (thank you FOT for letting us stay in place for a while!) and on Monday night on our evening walk around I noticed water pouring out of the back few bays of a brand new 2019 IH-45.  I knocked on the door and no answer so I turned off the water at the spigot and the deluge stopped.  I wrote them a note and taped it to their entry door window.  They departed the next day with their brand new painted to match stacker trailer that looked to be a bit taller than their coach and nearly as long - it looked beautiful but I would not want to be hauling that behemoth around.  I checked with the service rep yesterday and asked if the IH-45 no longer came with an auto shut off and told him what I had seen.  I said maybe my note blew off in the wind.  He said he would call the owner and check with them.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Steve and Barb on April 03, 2020, 03:04:01 am
I have a 1997 u320 and when I forgot to shut mine off it just spilled out the overflow onto the ground. I have a electric fill valve in the water bay and inside the bathroom.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 9:35 PM dans96u295ft via ForeForums noreply@foreforums.com> wrote:

Quote
A new topic, 'filling fresh water tank and forgetting', has been started in 'Foretravel Tech Talk'.

Ok. I filled my fresh tank and got to thinking, if I walked away and forgot it's hooked up to city water and filling, What happens after it's full and still on and I'm not there to shut off?. Does it equalize and stop filling?

Thank you

1996 U295-36, Cummins 300hp, 8.3. Build number 4864. Vin number 1F97D536XTNO54271
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: FourTravelers on April 03, 2020, 07:20:38 am
I know this will be contradicted but I don't concern myself with an occasional fresh tank overflow. I have mistakenly done it three or four times in the last five or so years. The bulkhead in front of the passenger side duals where our overflow is located gets soaked every time I drive in the rain or wet road conditions. With more water and for longer periods of time than a short time overflow. I agree the bulk head issue can be and is a serious issue, probably not the best design either. But why be so concerned about the bulkhead getting wet with and overflow when it gets soaked anytime you drive on a wet road? I have stopped many times, at many rest areas and examined this area after driving in the rain. Dripping wet.
Just my opinion, don't understand unless you never drive in the rain or on wet roads. Unfortunately In my situation I do drive in wet conditions and will deal with the bulkhead issue when the time comes.

End of rant.

Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: dans96u295ft on April 03, 2020, 09:25:23 am
I'll use the rubber band method. I do have a monitor panel I can also watch and at 100% it is not quite full. Is there anywhere on a 1996 u295 you can visually look at the tanks top without pulling panels?
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: craneman on April 03, 2020, 10:25:13 am
As soon as I found the forum, I read about the bulkhead issue and did the Brett torque test. All was good at that time. Then I cleaned all across the the angle iron and above it and sprayed two layers of automotive undercoating. I am going to clean the bolt heads and check again and respray as I still have about 12 gallons of the Penzoil undercoating in the drum. They sell a consumer version in an aerosol can that could protect this area from both rain and tank overflow.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: wolfe10 on April 03, 2020, 10:27:21 am
I used blue painter's tape to mask off each Rolock bolt head before I undercoated.  Makes rechecking torque a lot easier/cleaner.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: amos.harrison on April 03, 2020, 11:47:56 am
I pulled the panel hiding the water tank.  I still set my iPhone timer in 10 minute intervals and visually check the tank level before restarting the timer.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Jan & Richard on April 03, 2020, 12:25:10 pm
Dan,

To allow a direct view of my fresh water tank I cut an opening in the rear panel above my fresh water pump on the starboard side of the coach.  I glued plexiglass on the back side of the panel so as to maintain the integrity of the water system heating plan.  While I had the panel off, I marked the quarter, half and three quarter level of the tank with a Sharpie pen.  I also changed the compartment light to LED and moved it to the area behind the panel to make the marks easier to view.  Now I can just open the compartment door and see exactly how full (or empty) the tank is. 

Richard
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: oldguy on April 03, 2020, 12:46:53 pm
One of the first things I did was lengthen the overflow hose below the bulkhead after I got the coach.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Jan & Richard on April 03, 2020, 01:02:57 pm
One of the first things I did was lengthen the overflow hose below the bulkhead after I got the coach.
Yes, that is my fresh water overflow tube on the left side of the image which empties directly below the lower floor. 
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: jor on April 03, 2020, 01:10:24 pm
I'm betting most of us have forgotten and run into the overflow situation. I think the best solution is total dedication to the process, just like hookin' up the toad. It is so tempting to take care of something else when that water is filling. The redirected overflow hose solves the wet bulkhead issue and the manual fill makes the process a lot quicker.

Jan & Richard, that is a sweet setup.
jor

(deleted my remark about the wet compartment. Thanks, Crane)
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: dans96u295ft on April 03, 2020, 01:23:23 pm
Great idea, Jan and Richard. Thanks
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: dans96u295ft on April 03, 2020, 09:20:34 pm
My white tank is actually exposed in the bay but I can't see the water level as it is milky. Any ideas? And I don't see the overflow hose at all. How tough is it to post pictures
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Dub on April 03, 2020, 09:37:09 pm
I let mine run over once and rushed around to shut water off.. since then use direct fill and sit on a stool watching and it doesn't take long to fill..Justin makes a point and I see his reasoning.. My bulkhead's and bolts have a heavy coating of rubber spray on protectant from the bottom so I just don't have a problem doing my part from the top and inside bays.. Really wish the bulkheads and at least the first runs of steel closer to them had been done in aluminum but that's for another thread..I just plan to remain diligent in keeping water out of my bays.. Sure it will happen to all at sometime or other via plumbing and the likes but I can and will continue to keep em dry as I can.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on April 03, 2020, 09:48:20 pm
My white tank is actually exposed in the bay but I can't see the water level as it is milky. Any ideas? And I don't see the overflow hose at all. How tough is it to post pictures
The tank is translucent. You can easily see the water level through it. At least on my tank and I would bet on yours as well. I'll include a couple pictures. The green hose coming out of the top is the overflow.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: dans96u295ft on April 03, 2020, 10:54:06 pm
Weird. I'll try to post a picture
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on April 03, 2020, 11:53:39 pm
While I understand why foretravel closed up the bays to make it all look nice nice, I personally don't like that. It's kind of like putting parsley on top of a dinner that you just made. If you're not going to eat the parsley what the heck is the point. Same goes in my opinion with the decorative panels that they put in. Yeah I get that they closed off the unsightly tanks and plumbing and things like that but in my opinion it's much better to have those exposed where you can see them. It kind of tends to take care of issues before they happen. I'm thinking about changing the black and gray tank cover as well. and I took it off to look behind there I saw that there had been leaks in the past causing a mess on the floor. If it had been exposed that would not have happened or at least it would have been something that somebody could have seen happening and then taking care of it. I guess that is the difference between form versus function. I'm more interested in the function than the form or the beauty of it.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: craneman on April 04, 2020, 12:25:08 am
I wonder if the panels make it easier to keep the tanks from freezing by keeping the heater enclosed with the tanks.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Dub on April 04, 2020, 06:09:43 am
At least on mine, the passenger side fresh water tank panel blocks air from the bay heater duct.. Like Bob said, the bays look neater paneled in and I like neat BUT I have a greater need of being able to see what matters more.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: folivier on April 04, 2020, 08:37:55 am
My FT also has no panel covering the fresh water tank on the driver side so I can see the tank level.  But sometimes the sunlight angle makes it hard to see it so I'll open the direct fill when using the auto fill valve.  That way I'll see a drop or 2 when the tank is almost full and can shut it off then.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on April 04, 2020, 08:50:37 am
I wonder if the panels make it easier to keep the tanks from freezing by keeping the heater enclosed with the tanks.

Crane man that's a good thought. Makes sense. But the panels are just thin ply or glass so not much in the way of insulation there. Still the space would be smaller.
But I think it had more to do with the aesthetics of it. People paying a half mil for a coach would probably balk at anything less?
With that thought in mind may some remote thermometers in the bays would be a good idea.  If one was going to spend any time in cold weather.  I have some I was going to use in the fridge and freezer.  Might get another set for the wet bays.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on April 04, 2020, 08:56:27 am
The panels help contain whatever heat gets added to the bays but don't really add any insulation value.

If you have access to the side of the fresh water tank as it is filling hold a flashlight up to the side of the tank.  It helps see the difference between where the water is and is not.

In my 2001 U320 there is a flat shelf above the water pump and a vertical panel between the basement walls in front of the fresh water tank. These are held on with screws.  Every winter I had to take these out to do the winterizing thing. To make things easier all of these panels are held in place with velcro now. The vertical panel got modified to clear the AH heat exchanger, turn back towards the fresh tank and near the end of the self turn again towards the forward basement wall. This section is hinged so that I can easily open the section to see the fresh tank.  This also adds at least an additional square foot of shelf space for spare oil, antifreeze, and other parts.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: oldguy on April 04, 2020, 10:11:17 am
I took out the panel on the grey water side and on the fresh water side I replaced the thin angle aluminum with heavier angle
aluminum and fixed it so it is easier to remove and I use the shelf for storage. I made 2 inch insulation to cover the whole doorway
which keeps the whole area a lot warmer.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: jor on April 04, 2020, 12:20:11 pm
Seeing Behind the Wet Bay Panel
I have my wet bay and fuel tank areas open but on our 320 I knocked off Steve & Michelle's idea and installed a removable panel. It provided a good view of the hidden wet bay area without changing the look of the compartment. Same panel that Jeff used for access to the back of the water heater. Also keep an audible alarm on the floor to alert of any water (a Barry & Cindy innovation).

Trying to See through the Water Tank
I had direct fill and a SeeLevel gauge in the wet bay compartment on my last rig. That made it easy to monitor the fill process. On this rig, I just try to see the water level but it's difficult. I've tried all kinds of flashlights but it's always a struggle. I'm just waiting for my OEM gauges to fail so I can install SeeLevel (always a pleasure to throw that Audit box). Anyhow, a number of years ago I knocked off another venerable forum member's (Gary Bouland) idea and installed a simple water sight level. The photos aren't too good but you can see the transparent tube exiting from the bottom of the tank and snaking up the compartment wall. Just another way to see how much water is in that kinda translucent tank.
jor
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Dub on April 04, 2020, 12:44:59 pm
A typical flashlight didn't change the view in my fresh water tank but a LED tough lite bought at Wall Mart pressed against the bottom of the tank where all the light is going into the tank and none in my eyes illuminated the inside of the tank so that the water line is relatively easy to follow. Looks like you have fixed your issue .....maybe the light I use now will help someone else.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: folivier on April 04, 2020, 01:30:01 pm
Jor, I like your sight glass idea.  Is the top vented or plugged?
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: jor on April 04, 2020, 01:33:48 pm
Quote
Is the top vented or plugged?

When I used that system, I had a little plug for the sight hose. Didn't really need it though as the top of the hose was well above the fill level on the tank.
jor
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: farmerstu on April 04, 2020, 02:14:50 pm
I rebuilt my bulkhead when I bought my coach. Normal procedure for me is turn on the fill valve and shut it off when it overflows. Like others have said ,don't you drive in th rain?  Now when it comes to driving on salted roads nope, never ,no way. Fresh water,no problem.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Dub on April 04, 2020, 03:45:15 pm
The bulkheads on my 270 look pretty much water proof from outside underneath with the coating of rubberized sealant covering the bulkhead bolts and surrounding areas by several inches..I don't see where much or any road water could get inside.. Could be wrong..  Unlike my 280 that had molding that ran the length of the coach where the walls meet the floor with the ends open right at the bulkheads front and rear.. May be wrong about the 270 but I don't see a place where road wash can intrude. I will continue to try and keep the top side dry but won't be poking you for what works for you.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Caflashbob on April 04, 2020, 04:09:21 pm
Propane tank in a non dedicated compartment with electrical appliances?  Is it in use?
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Jan & Richard on June 13, 2021, 11:20:07 am
The tank is translucent. You can easily see the water level through it. At least on my tank and I would bet on yours as well.
Sorry about posting to an old thread but this topic is always relevant.  I sometimes have a hard time determining the water level looking at the translucent tank.  At those times I have tried shining a flashlight at the tank to little avail.  The other day I had an "ah ha" moment when I happened to have the utility bay on the driver side open at the time I was checking the water level on the passenger side.  The sun was more on the driver side and the back lighting of the tank made the actual water level show up dramatically.  I think I will add a bright LED light on the driver side with a momentary switch on the passenger side for visually checking water level. 

I will post photos when I get around to this project.

Richard
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Barry & Cindy on June 14, 2021, 11:10:14 am
For 20 years we know fresh water tank level by turning on a florescent lamp kept on top of tank. We discarded the fiberglass trim that hides viewing top of tank.

We also made a narrow paper template that is attached to tank surface to know # of gallons.

Works just fine.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: gracerace on June 14, 2021, 11:35:59 am
Like others, I just put a large bright battery powered light in the manifold/pump bay, then watch from the other side. I too removed the cover.

I like Barry's idea of a fluorescent light.

I lost my bright portable light for a week, only to find it with a dead battery in the plumbing bay!

Chris
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 14, 2021, 12:10:19 pm
I marked the tank about at the same level at where the direct fill hole is. Pretty easy to see, especially if you have a flashlight.

Pierce
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on June 14, 2021, 12:21:57 pm
I'm sitting here reading these comments about using flashlights, florescent lamps, LED lights, etc.  Then I wonder to myself "Are none of these coaches equipped with SeeLevel readouts in the wet bay".
I just assumed every savvy Forum owner had already converted over to SeeLevel.  I guess I was wrong.

Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: gracerace on June 14, 2021, 12:23:41 pm
I'm sitting here reading these comments about using flashlights, LED lights, etc.  Then I wonder to myself "Are none of these coaches equipped with SeeLevel readouts in the wet bay".
I just assumed every savvy Forum owner had already converted over to SeeLevel.  I guess I was wrong.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Old school.... :dance:
Poop and grey I don't worry about, I know where those are at most the time. And my old monitor reads pretty accurate, so does the fresh water, after adding a little more aluminum tape.
Chris

But agree, Seal levels are nice. Put one in my friends toterhome.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 14, 2021, 12:35:20 pm
I'm sitting here reading these comments about using flashlights, florescent lamps, LED lights, etc.  Then I wonder to myself "Are none of these coaches equipped with SeeLevel readouts in the wet bay".
I just assumed every savvy Forum owner had already converted over to SeeLevel.  I guess I was wrong.

I don't go above the line as parking on an angle or driving may result in water coming out the overflow and draining down to cause the dreaded Voldemort problem. Savvy designers would have never made this mistake (and many others). KISS works for me.

Pierce
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on June 14, 2021, 12:51:02 pm
Old school is my backup for when high tech inevitably fails at just the wrong moment.  :headwall:

On my tank (below) you can see my black marks that matched the old Audit 1/4 tank level graduations.  When the Audit clicked on the "FULL" signal, the water was at the "full" mark on the tank - about 4" below the actual top (overflow pipe).

When I installed the SeeLevel system tape on my water tank, it just happened to work out that the wet bay readout shows 100% the same time the water level reaches my added-on quick fill pipe (top right corner).  This is about 1" below overflow level.  I consider this my MAX fill line when I need a really full tank for dry camping.  Otherwise, I usually stop at 90% which is close to the old Audit full mark.

Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: folivier on June 14, 2021, 12:56:34 pm
When I added the manual fill fitting & valve at the top part of my tank I put it just below the overflow fitting (on the other side of the coach).  I can open that valve and when water starts to drip out I'm full enough.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: gracerace on June 17, 2021, 06:37:43 pm
For 20 years we know fresh water tank level by turning on a florescent lamp kept on top of tank. We discarded the fiberglass trim that hides viewing top of tank.

We also made a narrow paper template that is attached to tank surface to know # of gallons.

Works just fine.

Thanks Barry for the idea. I had a strip of 12" LED strip left over, stuck it to the top of the under floor, pointed down over the tank. Then mounted a toggle switch right there. Works awesome. Our tank gauges are actually pretty accurate, but slow to read out.
I have a city fill ordered, going to mount it in the upper flat part of the tank. Had been putting that one off.
I get so many good ideas on this sight.
Thanks Everyone
Chris
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Twig on June 17, 2021, 06:41:26 pm
Mine has done this a few times. 
I always cringe when I think about my rear bulkhead.
You may want to re-evaluate driving in the snow and rain.
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: dsd on June 19, 2021, 07:20:20 pm
One of the first things I did was lengthen the overflow hose below the bulkhead after I got the coach.
Does that help with all the snow and muck that gets plastered into your wheel wells.
Clean, seal, paint. Is a occasional potable water really going to compare to actually using. I've got surface corrosion from being parked to much, not being overfilled to much during my coaches life. I do agree with a extension hose but is that really going to improve life over some preventative maintenance.
Scott
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on June 19, 2021, 07:34:06 pm
It does not help when the tank fills and dumps the excess down below. Driving in the rain gets water behind the big angle iron and if there is any salt or chemicals remaining from earlier days, it makes it worse. Driving where it has snowed or is snowing is the worst. Tough to seal that area. If it's 90 percent sealed, any water that seeps in will take longer to evaporate. We all have rust, the hard to answer question is how much. Check the bulkhead photos on the otherwise really nice U300 on the Foretravel Owners Forum.

Pierce
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: gracerace on June 19, 2021, 07:36:40 pm
Does that help with all the snow and muck that gets plastered into your wheel wells.
Clean, seal, paint. Is a occasional potable water really going to compare to actually using. I've got surface corrosion from being parked to much, not being overfilled to much during my coaches life. I do agree with a extension hose but is that really going to improve life over some preventative maintenance.
Scott

My bulkhead is welded and beefed, then sealed many yrs ago. While doing the rear air bags with the fenders off. Looked at the overflow vent, and the bulkhead, thinking I would do something.
Then I looked at the whole thing, and like you said, this gets wet all the time in the rain, and how many times have I overflowed the tank....Once in 5 yrs. It's not worth worrying about.It's a great design in my opinion the way it is.
Chris
Title: Re: filling fresh water tank and forgetting
Post by: craneman on June 19, 2021, 08:32:19 pm
I posted before that after checking the bulkhead bolts I used Pennzoil undercoating and sealed the whole area. Time will tell if it succeeded in protecting the bulkhead.