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Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: John Morales on May 25, 2020, 12:27:42 pm

Title: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 25, 2020, 12:27:42 pm
Since we had an issue with our inverter transfer switch hanging up, we have decided to change our two transfer switches.  We are choosing to go with the automatic transfer switches to keep things simple and automatic.

After much research we decided to go with the Progressive Dynamics PD52 transfer switch.  The switches are set up for the generator relay to be primary. 

Transfer switch number 1 is no issue in setting it up.  The generator relay on the old transfer switch is on the right and shore power is on the left.  On transfer switch number 2 the inverter is on the right side, and shore power on the right.

I don't know if these old Magnatec transfer switches have the generator side set up as primary.  If they are then the inverter transfer switch does not make sense.  My thinking on the new inverter transfer switch is that shore power should be primary and the inverter should be secondary.  What do you electrical gurus say about this?  Looking to call Progressive Dynamics but they are closed for the holiday.

Thank in advance,
John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on May 25, 2020, 04:12:07 pm
John if I was shopping for a transfer switch, I would look at this from am solar. am solar (https://amsolar.com/rv-inverter-accessories/50-tsfmb1)

Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 25, 2020, 05:28:09 pm
John if I was shopping for a transfer switch, I would look at this from am solar. am solar (https://amsolar.com/rv-inverter-accessories/50-tsfmb1)


Bob,
Looks great! I think you need the multiplus inverter to work efficiently with that switch.  I don't have it.  I still have the old Prosine.  It is also on the list for a later date.
Thanks, John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Caflashbob on May 25, 2020, 05:30:14 pm
Will work with a hybrid magnum 3012
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Jack Lewis on May 25, 2020, 08:34:53 pm
John if I was shopping for a transfer switch, I would look at this from am solar. am solar (https://amsolar.com/rv-inverter-accessories/50-tsfmb1)


John M.  Congrats on solving your issue.  It is always rewarding to have done what you accomplished.  For me when I replaced mine, one of my rewards was the better understanding of how all the AC and DC wiring worked.  I noticed no one answered your question about shoreline or generator priority;  All I found online was on beamalarm showing FT from 1979 to mid 1994 had generator priority and later ones went to shore priority.  As you said, maybe someone will help with this.

Thank you Journey,Roam,Explore for the link, nice to know this is available.  I had many customers that if they knew this was available, they would want it right now.  For me, not so much.  This reminds me of when power windows came out, I thought who is unable to roll their windows up and down.  Now, yes, no power windows is a deal breaker, my cars must have power windows.

For me, the only downside other than the almost $2,000 to do a self install (plus any battery upgrade) for me is the fact that "The inverter system's no load draw will be higher because of the installation of the SPS. To see what the true draw is, turn off all the breakers in your RV's main panel and then check the AC draw using your system monitor."  I am surprised they do not list a range, however, I am sure AmSolar would let you know if asked.

For now using my Xantrex SW2012, my solar, with 3 AGM8Ds, I am just fine.  For someone putting in a new inverter, this of course would be an easier choice.  Maybe in a couple years I may think different.  Right now since I am primarily plugged in, and have my generator as a backup plan B, I am just fine.  600 ah of lithium batteries will be more likely a priority for me before gaining the benefits of this smart automatic transfer switch they summarize below.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/562bc73de4b0908330f67ee0/t/5bc7b204e4966bd287351f32/1539813892659/Smart+Automatic+ATS+Explained.pdf
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on May 25, 2020, 11:30:23 pm
Jack, I use a manual blue sea systems transfer switch. It's foolproof. Make or break so no chance of both AC sources being together. Installed by am solar for a PO. But if I was to do it again, would use the same system.
But John wants a automatic system and that system from am solar looks like a great system. But only if you use a inverter that does power share.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Caflashbob on May 26, 2020, 12:25:10 am
Original beaver coaches had a manual changeover switch  mounted in the driver side bedroom sidewall cabinet at a more convenient chest high position.  Breakers were there.  As was a marine 12 volt resettable circuit panel. 

Yes they had a dual layer outer wall and skin. Separate pieces.  Hung wall. Electrical run in the inner wall.

Only way you could paint the exterior and not have it delam and be totally flat

Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 26, 2020, 10:16:46 am
Thank you all!  I got my answer from Progressive Dynamics today.
John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Caflashbob on May 26, 2020, 12:47:29 pm
See the thread here about the new battery technology coming up.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 27, 2020, 06:22:11 pm
We installed the two transfer switches today.  Installation was a breeze.  The two transfer switches Progressive Dynamics PD52 are set up with Generator Priority.  On the inverter transfer switch number 2, I had to put inverter power on the Shoreline relay and the Shoreline input on the Generator relay.  Because of the Generator priority. 

Transfer switch number 1 was as directed on the schematic. Tested all options Shoreline, Generator and Inverter Power and everything works great.  The only thing I noticed is that there is a 20 to 45 time delay on the Generator relay then it disengages the inverter.  There is a jumper where I can bypass the delay.  I just might leave it way.  We will have to observe the process.

The main reason for replacing the transfer switches was because of the old Inverter Transfer Switch hung up and created havoc.  Also, everytime I disconnected shore power inverter power was a hit or miss.  Sometimes I had to drive without the inverter.  Now with the new transfer switch it is working flawlessly.  I was ready to replace my Inverter.  Maybe this switch solved my inverter issues.

All is good and no humming from the new transfer switches.

John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Jack Lewis on May 27, 2020, 07:00:54 pm
John, did you mean engage inverter, not disengage, as you said?  Yes, normally you want the delay on shore power everytime, for sure, to allow for A/C startup, etc. I still make sure all is powered down, when connecting to shore power, with final connection by turning on shore power 50 amp circuit breaker on the pedestal.

A delay on either would appear to correct a high current draw on either shore power or inverter,  damaging the ATS contacts when they are not fully engaged. This would be another good question for Progressive.  I look forward to what they tell you.

I know my Xantrex SW2012 has a built-in transfer switch that automatically transfers between inverter power and incoming AC power and is fed from the circuit breaker panel, fed by the PD52 ATS, as I have wired in the same Progressive PD52 ATS as you have. When I installed the PD52, Progressive told me that was ok, it would just be redundant.

I have a power meter hooked up to my residential refrigerator, and I did notice that when I interrupted the shore power, I have a delay to when the Xantrex fires up.  So, I have the same delay on the inverter as you have, I am not sure it is from my Xantrex SW2012 built in ATS or the Progressive PD52 ATS.

I noticed no one answered your question about shoreline or generator priority, which is the correct way to connect;  All I found online was on beamalarm showing FT from 1979 to mid 1994 had generator priority and later ones went to shore priority.  As you said, maybe someone will help with this.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 27, 2020, 07:31:48 pm
Jack,
With the shoreline off, inverter transfer switch is engaged on the shore side of the the inverter transfer switch.  I plug in, EMS goes through it's cycle, transfer switch number 1 engages.  Inverter is still connected to the sub panel till the Generator relay engages after time out. Which is about 20-45 seconds.  After the time delay, Generator relay engages with shoreline power and at the same time inverter/shore relay disengages allowing the sub panel to be powered with shoreline power.  I'm thinking the delay will help power stabilize before engaging the sub panel.  I tested power at the input power of the inverter/shoreline relay and power from the inverter is still there.  Relay is just open. 

Little confusing, since I have use the shore power relay for the inverter and the Generator relay for shore power, but it works.  If I bypass the time out cycle on Generator relay on the inverter transfer switch, shore power would be instant across both transfer switches.  I think I'm going to leave the delay for now and watch the power transfer closely.  Just have to get use to it.

Now to work on moving my Progressive Industries EMS from the outside to underneath the bed.  Then I will install the Hughes Watchdog outside.  This way I can monitor shore power through my phone.
John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 29, 2020, 07:37:32 pm
Just when I thought all was good the gremlin returned.  After installing the transfer switches I started to have the same problems again.  Long story short.  Battery charger on the inverter is toast.  It was shorted out causing the transfer switch to fail on line 1.  Now that the charger does not want to work at all.  We currently have the charger on the inverter turned off at the breaker, ran everything and all is good. Ran the inverter, Shoreline and generator all separately and tested all outlets and all is good. Now we don't have a charger.  I have to go to Illinois and won't have time to swap out the inverter and was looking for a way to charge the batteries.  I will change out the inverter when I return to Florida.  I was looking at the OPTIMA DIGITAL 1200
12V PERFORMANCE CHARGER and BATTERY MAINTAINER. It charges flooded and AGM batteries.  I have a regular charger but I don't know if it will charge the house batteries correctly.  Does anyone have any other options I can explore.

John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: bpal on May 29, 2020, 08:28:50 pm
I looked at Iota chargers some years back but never purchased one. They have a 55A model that plugs into a standard 15a 120v outlet.  I don't think they are programmable but they do have plug in modules that change the charge profile for the battery type you have.
https://www.iotaengineering.com (https://www.iotaengineering.com/IQ/#!/)
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: craneman on May 29, 2020, 08:33:40 pm
What amp is the battery charger you have? For a short time I don't think the agm and flooded profile would matter. You need to figure  how long you are on the pedestal and the amps of the charger to keep them charged. Running down the road you will keep them up off the alternator.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Barry & Cindy on May 30, 2020, 12:48:24 am
Check negative reviews on Amazon for this charger, which is likely not made or designed for Optima, but badged with their name.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Caflashbob on May 30, 2020, 01:09:58 am
Fast idle will bulk 100 plus amps per hour.  Noisy but works.

Two portable auto type chargers can be clipped to the house batteries and run off the gen.  Mine put out 60 amps.

Times two?  Cheap. I carry one normally.  A few hd extension cords plugged into separate circuits?

Do you have solar? 

I have to get another smart charger now that I read this.

Or 2 that match

Edit: I looked and it puts out 30amps

Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 30, 2020, 08:17:44 am
My biggest question is what size is needed.  They come in so many amp sizes.  Looking for one can be overwhelming.  🤔😟🤪
Is a large amp charger required to maintain the charge of batteries?
Thank you,
John M
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Jack Lewis on May 30, 2020, 08:21:42 am
For John Morales, the original poster. Their are many choices, much depends on timing, needs, and budget.

Xantrex  Truecharge2 40 amp
Amazon.com: Xantrex TRUECHARGE 2 40A 12VDC 3 BANK BATTERY CHARGER (33599):... (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G7J0AW/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_SEC0EbYMHR6XC)

Many chargers, from a company in Oregon I've bought from, 21 amps and above.  Your FT OEM Prosine 2.5 had a 50 amp charger.
12 Volt Smart Battery Chargers: 21 Amps and Above (https://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/12-volt/21amps/)

Xantrex Truecharge2 Manual
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pr60tgn820g5nqv/975-0526-01-02_Rev-D%28Truecharge2%20Battery%20Charger%20Owners%20Guide%29.pdf?dl=0

This Xantrex 3000 XC Pro inverter/charger is being released about June 10, 2020 with 150 amp charger, bluetooth remote display, etc., looks interesting.  The 2000 XC Pro is available now.

Xantrex Freedom Xc Pro 3000 Inverter/Charger - 3000w - 150a - 120v - 12v (https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xan818-3010-xantrex-freedom-xc-pro-3000-invertercharger--3.html)

https://youtu.be/QGcWMlBo1WE
Xantrex XC Pro literature.
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/freedom-xcpro.aspx

Victron unit, hat many are happy with and have bought on this forum.  If you buy I'd recommend Bay Marine, as the offer support others do not, and they offer a discount to forum members.
Victron Multiplus Inverter/Charger 12 Vdc - 3000w - 120amp Battery Charger -... (https://www.hodgesmarine.com/vicpmp122301102-victron-multiplus-invertercharger-12-vdc--3000.html)

What I have.
Xantrex Freedom Sw2012 12v 2000w Inverter/Charger (https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xan815-2012-xantrex-freedom-sw2012-12v-2000w-invertercharger.html)

What I wish I had bought, because of 150 amp charger.  Requires changing ac and dc wiring for bigger capacity, at the time I did not want to do.  I could have just reduced settings until I upgraded wiring.
Xantrex Freedom Sw3012 12v 3000w Inverter/Charger (https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xan815-3012-xantrex-freedom-sw3012-12v-3000w-invertercharger.html)

The lowest priced inverter/charger I would recommend.  Two others on this forum are using this.
Xantrex Freedom Xc 2000 True Sine Wave Inverter/Charger - 12vdc - 120vac -... (https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xan817-2080-xantrex-freedom-xc-2000-true-sine-wave-inverter.html)

This is a better low priced inverter/charge.  You may want optional bluetooth remote panel, and optional temperature sensor.
Xantrex Freedom Xc 2000 True Sine Wave Inverter/Charger - 12vdc - 120vac -... (https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xan817-2080-xantrex-freedom-xc-2000-true-sine-wave-inverter.html)

Xantrex Freedom Xc Pro 3000 Inverter/Charger - 3000w - 150a - 120v - 12v (https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xan818-3010-xantrex-freedom-xc-pro-3000-invertercharger--3.html)
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: wolfe10 on May 30, 2020, 09:04:04 am
John,

Much of the answer depends on how much driving vs  being in an RV park you will do.  If driving daily, the alternator will keep you going.

If not, I would buy a CHEAP 60 or so amp "stupid" automotive charger. Only negative is that you will need to monitor battery voltage so that it does not go too high.

Said another way, I would not invest in a high quality/expensive smart charger for one trip.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on May 30, 2020, 09:49:39 am
Just when I thought all was good the gremlin returned.  After installing the transfer switches I started to have the same problems again.  Long story short.  Battery charger on the inverter is toast.  It was shorted out causing the transfer switch to fail on line 1.  Now that the charger does not want to work at all.  We currently have the charger on the inverter turned off at the breaker, ran everything and all is good. Ran the inverter, Shoreline and generator all separately and tested all outlets and all is good. Now we don't have a charger.  I have to go to Illinois and won't have time to swap out the inverter and was looking for a way to charge the batteries.  I will change out the inverter when I return to Florida.  I was looking at the OPTIMA DIGITAL 1200
12V PERFORMANCE CHARGER and BATTERY MAINTAINER. It charges flooded and AGM batteries.  I have a regular charger but I don't know if it will charge the house batteries correctly.  Does anyone have any other options I can explore.

John M.

John, I have that charger, bought for my now replaced optima batteries  that are replaced with odyssey batteries. Seems to do a good job charging them. Its not installed in the coach so I can use it to charge my jeep batteries as well. It's only 12 amps. Not sure it would do a great job keeping house bank charged. I'm glad I have it though.
When you can, I highly recommend a victron multiple inverter charger.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Jack Lewis on May 30, 2020, 10:28:13 am
Quote from Journey, Roam, "Not sure it would do a great job keeping house bank charged. I'm glad I have it though.  When you can, I highly recommend a victron multiple inverter charger."

Agreed, this (1200) is a great charger, well suited for charging chassis batteries or dingy battery.  However it would be not as great for charging a house bank such as the 725ah+ bank that John M. has.  The manual for the 1200 I attached below states charger is for 40-130ah batteries., page16, #28.  That is why I recommend to John the above Xantrex Truecharge2 40 amp in my post above. 

As wolf10 says, yes, an inexpensive 60 amp charger, from say Walmart, will get you thru one trip just fine.  As he said, monitor voltage, to see charge rate does not go over 14.4-14.5 to protect your AGMs.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eegb0a2n2gmug4t/Digital_1200_Battery_Charger_Manual.pdf?dl=0 topics
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 30, 2020, 12:06:42 pm
John,

Much of the answer depends on how much driving vs  being in an RV park you will do.  If driving daily, the alternator will keep you going.

If not, I would buy a CHEAP 60 or so amp "stupid" automotive charger. Only negative is that you will need to monitor battery voltage so that it does not go too high.

Said another way, I would not invest in a high quality/expensive smart charger for one trip.

Brett,
I have a charger I carry with me that does a 10 A fast charge, a 2 A float charge and a 55 A engine start.  Can I use this?
John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: wolfe10 on May 30, 2020, 12:10:10 pm
Again depends on how long you are parked (not charging with the alternator) and how much 12 VDC power you are using while parked. 

10 amps won't keep up with much of a load, but if starting with fully charged batteries from driving all day, you should be OK for an overnight.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Jack Lewis on May 30, 2020, 12:28:02 pm
10 amps won't keep up with much of a load, but if starting with fully charged batteries from driving all day, you should be OK for an overnight.

I agree with Brett.  You have time to moniter charger. Start out with fully charged batteries to make sure charging voltage does not go above East Penn recommendation, to not go above 14.6 volts maximum, at 68 degrees, with recommended between 14.4-14.6.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Caflashbob on May 30, 2020, 12:58:57 pm
Some inverter chargers designs seem to optimized for short/medium term mid power  rating loads. 

Others are designed to put out larger percentages of their rated power continuously like a residence.

Physically heavier.  More cooling. That kind of stuff.

Longer term  hot weather use and/or  higher constant loads might need the heavier units.

The heavier units may not be as efficient at some power output levels as the intermittent designed units due to their transformer design. 

Rv use is generally intermittent and in non extreme hot weather so the more efficient units may fit your needs.

That being said IF you want future uses to include auto gen start some units are not as optimized for some gens in our older coaches.

Someone posted that the newer domestic penguin roof airs had the latest internal boards in them that with a 10 button control panel can be hooked up with a networked auto gen start to be able to have a dual setback HVAC work with the system.

Complete automated system is possible in our coaches back to mid 90's.

Most users here switch things on and off and have not considered a fully auto system being possible.

So do you want a higher efficiency, lower idle current draw unit that is optimized for intermittent medium duty use or a maybe more robust system that looses a few percent in efficiency ratings as a trade off for a unit capable of higher output in hotter conditions that can incorporate the HVAC  system and run your particular gen on autostart.

As I go along I intent to incorporate the dual setback HVAC system as well as the networked auto gen start and a large solar system integrated into the combined system.

Would seem most here are used to and do not mind manually adjusting their systems,  something to do is not a bad thing.

Kinda fun.

Part of the reason I have not finished my system overhaul.

Finished my high tech battery condition test setup yesterday.  Need to start from the bottom up IMO.

More info on that maybe to follow

If I wanted max efficiency for non extreme conditions and non full load continuous loads a UL version  Victron would be a top choice.





 
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 30, 2020, 01:09:10 pm
Again depends on how long you are parked (not charging with the alternator) and how much 12 VDC power you are using while parked. 

10 amps won't keep up with much of a load, but if starting with fully charged batteries from driving all day, you should be OK for an overnight.
Brett,
We always travel pole to pole.  I'm just looking to maintain our batteries overnight while plugged in.  Maybe I should invest in a onboard battery monitor to view and manage the the activity.
John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: wolfe10 on May 30, 2020, 01:12:39 pm
John,

If your batteries are OK, I can't imagine that overnight would present a problem assuming you don't use the inverter or other high-amp draw.

Said another way, if your batteries do not provide sufficient power for an overnight, something is wrong.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on May 30, 2020, 01:24:54 pm
Brett,
We always travel pole to pole.  I'm just looking to maintain our batteries overnight while plugged in.  Maybe I should invest in a onboard battery monitor to view and manage the the activity.
John M.

John if you don't have one then it's time. It's a must have item. Victron makes a great one the BMV-712. It's Bluetooth enabled. Not hard to install. BMV-712 (https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energy-MONITOR-VTBMV-S-BMV-712-Battery/dp/B075RTSTKS)
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Caflashbob on May 30, 2020, 01:30:28 pm
Did GleamB get his Victron 712 compatibility with his Magnum system figured out?
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Jack Lewis on May 30, 2020, 02:41:14 pm
Journey, Roam, Explore advice is so true, Victron 712 is easy to install and program, under $210, with all settings and readings available on your cell phone. For me too, it is a must in monitoring my batteries.

I use the Victron temperature sence with this. Especially  listen to necessity for all grounds, battery, solar, inverter, charger to go to proper lug on shunt.  This is the most common reason people can get improper readings.

The following video by AmSolar explains use, install, and program.
https://youtu.be/tV055vmZgvY
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 30, 2020, 03:51:32 pm
The Victron 712 with the temperature sensor is $226 on Amazon.
John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 30, 2020, 03:55:45 pm
Just searched it and found this. Price is too good to be true.
John M.

Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor with Battery Temperature Sensor [W3E4540UZ]... (https://www.propsdeco.com/victron-temperature-sensor-with-battery-bmv-712-battery-monitor)
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: craneman on May 30, 2020, 04:19:49 pm
Propsdeco.com | Very bad trust index : 2 % (https://www.scamdoc.com/view/269249)
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Texhub on May 30, 2020, 06:15:02 pm
DANGER


Research this company! 


Doesnt pass smell test.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Jack Lewis on May 30, 2020, 06:38:03 pm
The Victron 712 with the temperature sensor is $226 on Amazon.
John M.

I would order direct from Bay Marine.  Call first, ask for 10% discount offered to FT forum members, and ask if temp cable is included in packaging.
Victron BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor with Built-In Bluetooth (https://baymarinesupply.com/victron-bmv-712-smart-battery-monitor-with-bluetooth.html)



Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on May 30, 2020, 07:19:32 pm
You he Ave to be careful these days who you order from. Ordered a Hughes power watchdog from a company allrv.com. realized I ordered the wrong item the next day and after a week still not able to get ahold of someone. Had to put in a dispute with my cc company.
But back to the Victron. Go with Bay Marine. I have never ordered anything from them but seems like a excellent company. I usually order from Peter Kennedy Yacht Services. Also a excellent company.
Temp sensor is usually extra. 20 bucks. Amp-Hour-Meters (https://shop.pkys.com/Amp-Hour-Meters_c_165.html)
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: red tractor on May 30, 2020, 07:37:45 pm
I think John that is just for the round gauge and cable.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: craneman on May 30, 2020, 08:01:00 pm
I think John that is just for the round gauge and cable.
The description says 500 amp shunt included.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on May 31, 2020, 08:06:30 am
Is the 712 difficult to program?
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Tommy D on May 31, 2020, 08:56:10 am
Not from the app, it's simple from what I remember.  Took more time to find the parameters of my batteries than to program it. Mine included shunt, monitor, and two battery wires so you could monitor both house and chassi.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Jack Lewis on May 31, 2020, 09:14:49 am

How to install, use, and program.
https://youtu.be/tV055vmZgvY
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 31, 2020, 12:59:39 pm
Well, I have mine ordered and it's on the way.  I won't be able to receive here in Florida so I'm having it shipped to my son's house in Illinois where I will be docked.  By the looks of the installation I am going to need a cable from the negative side to the shunt, then install the negative cable from the batteries to the other side of the shunt.  Now to find a location for the shunt and determine the length and cable size.
John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Jack Lewis on May 31, 2020, 01:15:49 pm
By the looks of the installation I am going to need a cable from the negative side to the shunt, then install the negative cable from the batteries to the other side of the shunt.  Now to find a location for the shunt and determine the length and cable size.
John M.

I do not have a 320 like yours which might have the Link 2000, however, I thought the Link 2000 used a shunt.

On my U295 I removed my oem shunt and 110v  Powerewatch monitor, so it was simple to replace with Victron supplied shunt.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 31, 2020, 01:21:38 pm
Jack,
Not quite sure what the link 2000 is.  Never had to deal with it.  I will search BeamAlarm to see if I can find info on it.
John M
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on May 31, 2020, 01:31:38 pm
John  Jack is correct. you have a shunt in the driver's side basement next to the aquahot behind the fiberglass shield. At least I do. And I think we have the same coach. Just need to make sure that all negative cables are on the coach side of the shunt to ensure accurate measurements of the amps used.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: bbeane on May 31, 2020, 01:40:12 pm
John M, the link 2000 interface is a monitor/ control for the inverter charger.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: oldguy on May 31, 2020, 02:44:26 pm
I also have a shunt behind the fiber glass shield and I used it for the new magnum inverter.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on May 31, 2020, 10:42:11 pm
John M, the link 2000 interface is a monitor/ control for the inverter charger.
Thanks Bruce, I don't have that in my coach.
John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on June 02, 2020, 08:44:00 pm
With nothing running, I've been using my charger here at home and keeping the batteries on a 2A float at 13.2V
John M
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on June 05, 2020, 06:09:41 pm
An update to my transfer switch issue.  Everything today was done with our forum member Red Tractor.  He is my go to person when I'm stumped and need assistance.

All of my issues started one day a week ago when we loss power and coach did not return to it's normal state. Coach was plugged in and the EMS outside between the reel and the house was reading fine with no errors. Inside the breaker on the battery charger was tripped and inverter flashing warnings. Reset everything and  we temporarily got it running but had intermittent issues so we decided to order new transfer switches.  Put new transfer switch in and we started to have the same intermittent issue and now transfer switch was not energizing.  We returned the transfer switch, got a replacement from Amazon and same issue shore power relay not energizing. 

Even though we had power to the new shore line transfer switch it was not powering up giving us a power feed back on the neutral between Line 1 and Neutral. Again, everything worked through the generator just fine which kept pointing us to the shore side.  Since DavidS on the forum had power issues on his coach due to issues with his power reel we were ready to start taking our power reel apart to inspect it to see if we had the same issues. 

Before taking the reel apart I first decided to open the EMS and test power there.  When I removed the cover we were met with a big surprise in the attached photo.  We removed the EMS and bypassed the connection and it all fired up just fine with no errors except the inverter/charger still not working. 

Now to find my receipt to see if Progressive will replace my EMS.  It has been 7 years.  Probably not.  My good friend Red Tractor told me he had an identical Prosine as mine that was given to him and that he would give it to me.  Mine was the 2500 watt inverter and the one he had was the 3000.  Other than that they were identical. We changed it and the inverter is inverting and the charger is now working.  Thanks Red Tractor. 

I'm still stumped as to what caused the EMS issue on the house side.  Could it be a loose connection on the EMS? I feel it was the old inverter/charger that failed and possibly shorted out therefore causing a 220V feed back.  I don't  know.  Whatever it was it also took out my surround sound and dvd player.  Now to see if I can revive them.

Now I need to get two new replacement EMS.  One for the inside under the bed and one outside.  Leaning on the Hughes Watch Dog on the outside.  If Progressive Industries does not replace my EMS I will get a Hughes for the inside also. 

Anybody have any idea what went wrong?

John M.
🤔😟🥺😡🤬😬😁😎 The End!

P.S.  A big thank you to Red Tractor for all his help on this issue and the inverter.  It was all a blessing to me.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: craneman on June 05, 2020, 06:21:26 pm
I had an inverter go bad in my '81 put 220 to tv's and microwave took out all. Kept the microwave and hope putting a new transformer in will repair it as nothing but that original Panasonic fits the cabinet.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on June 05, 2020, 06:39:49 pm
My guess John is bad shore side power. The burnt connections seem to show something heated things up a bit to much. Good thing you looked there.
I have a Hughes watchdog on order for inline with my new wire reel and the progressive inside between my transfer switch and my panel per recommendations by Chuck I think. Just waiting for it to sup.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Tommy D on June 05, 2020, 06:42:16 pm

Ron, Red Tractor Is the greatest!  Super nice guy and very reasonable on his pricing!  I highly recommend him!  I was there for his birthday this week and his nice wife Nancy shared a piece of his cake with me, it was delicious!

2—6 packs
I—Air Dryer
2–air line leaks
Engine Oil/filter change
All Fuel lines replaced
Fuel filters replaced
Brakes inspected and adjusted
Just generally looked over my coach and said it's in great shape and ready to go!
2 items on my list of to do's at a later time
Tons of knowledge shared.
He's been doing Foretravel and other high end coaches for 40 years
Very fortunate to be able to meet him and pick his brain for a few days!
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: wolfe10 on June 05, 2020, 06:58:38 pm
How tight/loose was the set screw on the overheated connections?  A loose connection= resistance is the #1 cause of failure in EMS and ATS's.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: red tractor on June 05, 2020, 08:19:33 pm
The set screw was tight which surprised me. I thought that it would be loose but was not. So glad to get John fixed up as I had been trying to help him fix it over the phone, but much easier when you can put your hands on it.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Caflashbob on June 05, 2020, 08:43:40 pm
Not to change the subject any more than I normally do but I would think long and hard before I moved the isolator inside the coach......
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on June 05, 2020, 08:44:59 pm
My guess John is bad shore side power. The burnt connections seem to show something heated things up a bit to much. Good thing you looked there.
I have a Hughes watchdog on order for inline with my new wire reel and the progressive inside between my transfer switch and my panel per recommendations by Chuck I think. Just waiting for it to sup.
Shore side was OK.  If shore side was bad the EMS would have cut off the power or blown the surge discs.  All that was still good.  I believe it was the inverter/charger as Craneman stated.
John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: wolfe10 on June 05, 2020, 08:55:10 pm
Wonder if the screws were actually tight on the wire or just "welded" in place.

Again, loose connections in the ATS account for the vast majority of ATS failures.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: red tractor on June 05, 2020, 09:02:37 pm
It was not welded was able to back out the screw and then pull the wire out. This was on the neutral leg and the piece that the wire slips into was burned off from the  contact.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on June 06, 2020, 01:13:16 am
John is this ems downside of the inverter?  Shouldn't be.  If between transfer switch and distribution box can't see the inverter doing that ? There should be a large fuse before the inverter.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: John Morales on June 06, 2020, 07:50:28 am
John is this ems downside of the inverter?  Shouldn't be.  If between transfer switch and distribution box can't see the inverter doing that ? There should be a large fuse before the inverter.
Inverter/charger gets its power from shoreline and has a breaker on the main panel on Line 1.  Then when when the shoreline is connected and transfer closes the subpanel is fed from the main panel off of line 1 also.  All of the havoc was on line 1.  Craneman experienced this same issue.  I know of two other individuals that experienced the same.  We will see how it goes from here on.  Thankful it wasn't any worse.
John M.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on June 06, 2020, 02:58:24 pm
John
My assumptions regarding the picture in reply #50 are:
It is the EMS, not an ATS.
The black wires are L1 (hot) and L2 (hot), while the red wire is the neutral.

If the shore power provided two 120VAC hots with zero volts between L1 and L2, the neutral wire amperage is the sum of the amperage in L1 and L2 (this is also the case with the generator wires) such that the wire and contact could be overloaded at times. If it was a hot day so you had both air conditioners running, and were using the convection oven as well as charging batteries while the campground voltage was low due to being loaded to near capacity, the amperage in the neutral wire could be high enough to cause overheating damage.

The neutral connector in the shore/genset ATS which my Foretravel came with was discoloured due to overheating. I replaced both ATS switches in my coach with two manual 65 amp switches and ran a second neutral wire from the power panel to the shore connector.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: wolfe10 on June 06, 2020, 03:36:25 pm

The black wires are L1 (hot) and L2 (hot), while the red wire is the neutral.


That would be some VERY bazaar wiring.

Convention for 50 amp:

L1 and L2 are black and red (positions interchangeable)
Neutral is WHITE
Ground is green

A red used as a neutral would be mis-wired by the vast majority of licensed electricians.

Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on June 06, 2020, 03:51:49 pm
[quote author=P. Wyatt Sabourin

The neutral connector in the shore/genset ATS which my Foretravel came with was discoloured due to overheating. I replaced both ATS switches in my coach with two manual 65 amp switches and ran a second neutral wire from the power panel to the shore connector.
[/quote]


Wyatt why did you use 2 switches when 1 will do?
I have one Blue sea systems manual transfer switch.  3 positions. Shore, generator, off.
it's a make or break switch so you can't have both contacts on at the same time. It's foolproof and quite sturdy. I'm pretty sure as long as the connections stay tight and the circuit's not overloaded Little could go wrong with it.
Title: Re: Transfer switch Question
Post by: wolfe10 on June 06, 2020, 04:06:41 pm

I have one Blue sea systems manual transfer switch.  3 positions. Shore, generator, off.
it's a make or break switch so you can't have both contacts on at the same time. It's foolproof and quite sturdy. I'm pretty sure as long as the connections stay tight and the circuit's not overloaded Little could go wrong with it.

Yes, very KISS theory.

Reason some coaches have two ATS's from the factory is that the second box has IN from shore power and from inverter.

The contacts in the second ATS are able to handle more amps than many of the OE inverters pass through switches were able to handle. Said another way, on shore power, they allow one to use more amps than the pass through switch in the inverter could handle.