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Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: Dub on May 25, 2020, 04:24:25 pm

Title: Algea Treatment
Post by: Dub on May 25, 2020, 04:24:25 pm
Going to post this because it's first hand experience and may help someone else.. Last year I bought 80 gal of fuel at a TA Truck stop in Jacksonville Fla and picked up a load of fuel Algae..  I try to only buy Loves fuel because Ive never yet bought any that was dirty.. I never developed a loss of power but would have if I wasn't deligent about changing filters while i'm in my shop vs on the road.. The algae was so dense I figured I would have to go the long route to get it out but thought I would try a product that a friend of mine had positive results with in a 3000 gal bulk tank. Product is FPPF "Killem".. Its taken a year and 4000 miles of treatment to get rid of the gunk and I changed my primary filter every 1500 miles. Today I pulled my filter and had barely a trace of gunk inside so I can say with confidence what FPPF Killem did for me and I am very skeptical about fixes in a bottle. On a side note I use straight methanol for water dispersal that I buy in a 5 gal bucket because of all the units on the yard, you can buy it from FPPF in 8 oz bottles.. Not for algae but for water and water is the beginning catalyst to create algae.. I bought my algae at about 3.50 a gal. Many other products on the forum for algae but I have witnessed this to dispose of it.. Todays filter was put on in Quartzite Az 1500 miles from my shop..Now I plan to get back on schedule and change fuel filters  at oil change intervals..As always DWMYH.



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Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Dub on May 25, 2020, 04:32:30 pm
The miles and refueling and retreating is the ticket, not the time.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Chris m lang on May 25, 2020, 06:08:22 pm
Dub, one of the things I look at when pulling into get fuel is how busy are they--I agree you can get bad fuel anywhere but I figure if they are turning over the fuel frequently hopefully it will be good-- But I would defer to you experience with long haul!
Chris
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: wolfe10 on May 25, 2020, 06:11:33 pm
I keep an empty glass jar next to the fill.  Pump a few ounces into it.  If it looks OK (no dirt, water or algae), I empty it into the tank and fill the coach.

Put a lid on the jar and save it for the next fill.

No, not 100%, but a reasonable precaution that only takes 15 seconds.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Dub on May 25, 2020, 06:19:02 pm
Your right Chris that's why I was supprised  to get gunk from the busy TA.. Gulf coast fuel is more susceptible to algae because of humidity but I have had no problems with Loves fuel all across the Gulf. Buy enough fuel across the country and your bound to get at least water goodness knows I have but that's the first black algae I have ever bought and have bought much fuel.. We are all just one fill up away from it.. I wouldn't have fueled at the TA that day but Karen wanted to stop and I was on half a tank so filled her up. That's not to say TA is bad but I would steer clear of the one in Jacksonville.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Dub on May 25, 2020, 06:21:13 pm
Not a bad idea Bret.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Dub on May 25, 2020, 06:28:25 pm
I figured I would end up at Keith's at Nac. but on recommendation I gave Killem a try and it appears to have worked.. Having trucks I should have built a system like he has to "polish" fuel but was always busy doing something more pushing.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 25, 2020, 08:22:33 pm
I keep an empty glass jar next to the fill.  Pump a few ounces into it.  If it looks OK (no dirt, water or algae), I empty it into the tank and fill the coach.
Put a lid on the jar and save it for the next fill.
No, not 100%, but a reasonable precaution that only takes 15 seconds.
That's it. Water probe on the primary filter is available on a lot of filters. You can have the cleanest tank in the world but it only takes one bad fueling stop to bring along some water and or algae. Not necessarily the station but the tanker is a good bet.  If you have the clear plastic bowl with drain on the bottom of the primary filter, it's good to run the engine after fueling and put a flash light on one side. Morning check does not hurt either.

I always liked Racor with the priming pump built in the top, an optional water sensor and a heater for very cold climates.

    Aquabloc® filter media in 2, 10 or also 30 micron rating.
    See-thru collection bowls make it easy to see water in fuel.
    99% water removal efficiency.
    Engineered polymer bowls are reusable, impact-resistant and virtually indestructible. When it's time for service, only the filter element is replaced – the see-thru bowl and drain valve assembly are reused. The long life cycle of the bowl saves money and reduces environmental impact.
    Optional priming:
        Integrated primer pump and vent plug.
        Hand-operated fuel priming pump.
        12 volt or 24 volt electronic priming pump.
    Optional water-in-fuel sensor.
    Also optional 200watt in-bowl heater available in 12 or 24VDC.

Example: Racor RK22266-01 Replacement Spin-On Diesel Filter Bowl & Water Sensor | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Racor-RK22266-01-Replacement-Spin-On-Diesel-Filter-Bowl-Water-Sensor/153673534365?epid=1150356949&hash=item23c7a80b9d:g:IIkAAOSw5nBdmUDT:sc:USPSPriorityFlatRateBox!95949!US!-1)

That's why pilots have a clear container to look at the gas after fueling and before they make the first flight of the day.

Pierce
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: fkjohns6083 on May 25, 2020, 08:28:50 pm
The problems that I have had with algae I can trace back to a fill up from A small station that doesn't have a high turn over rate and sells bio-diesel.  I think that a low turn over rate is probably not as big of a factor as bio-diesel.  I won't use it again if I can get around it and for sure will add an algae treatment of some kind if I do have to.  (just my opinion)  Have a great day  ----  Fritz 
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: hdff on May 25, 2020, 08:35:29 pm
I keep an empty glass jar next to the fill.  Pump a few ounces into it.  If it looks OK (no dirt, water or algae), I empty it into the tank and fill the coach.

Put a lid on the jar and save it for the next fill.

No, not 100%, but a reasonable precaution that only takes 15 seconds.
Is it possible to pump a few ounces on those high flow pumps??
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 25, 2020, 08:56:43 pm
The problems that I have had with algae I can trace back to a fill up from A small station that doesn't have a high turn over rate and sells bio-diesel.  I think that a low turn over rate is probably not as big of a factor as bio-diesel.  I won't use it again if I can get around it and for sure will add an algae treatment of some kind if I do have to.  (just my opinion)  Have a great day  ----  Fritz 
We use and prefer bio-diesel all the time. Most all stations in the San Joaquin Valley pump a blend. Lower pollution and better lubricity are real pluses. BTUs are close to the same. It does absorb more water than petro diesel.

Diesel fuel and vehicles are under fire everywhere. VW just lost a multi-million dollar suit yesterday. Bio-diesel is an important step forward to keep diesel vehicles legal to travel in city centers throughout the world where many are banned today.

Pierce
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Billbag on May 25, 2020, 09:30:38 pm
Having run many 1000, gallons, through boats, about the same size Eng.s. we are using now.' Have not seen a ttl of a qt of water.  Buying fuel on the  ICW, Mobile-corpus Christi.
1.  bio Bore (sp)  like the other product, won't fix anything, BUT regular use will kill the bugs.
2.  Keep tanks full, as best U can.
3.  Racor, or other filters, smaller the # (2 Micron Great, better than useless 20) the better, remember, some of the fuel u are pumping to your eng. bypasses thus u Have a cleaning through the filter, with out thinking about it.  Look at the bowl if U have a primary with a bowl, got some black stuff.  CHANGE the FILTER.
THE PRIMARY, YOUR BEST FRIEND...
Just a few quick thoughts.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Dub on May 25, 2020, 10:34:42 pm
This algae didn't grow in my tank, I bought it.. I'm vigilant about such and continually keep check on the condition of my filters in all my diesel rigs. What I'm saying is some of the strands of the algae I bought were 2 inches long and Prolonged use of Killem as in 4000 miles it reduced it down to where today there were 4 pieces in the bottom of my filter the size of a pea. Some good points made and I am just passing on the name of a product that worked for me during very close monitoring. Close monitoring is how I am able to tell exactly where I bought it..Very conscious of my equipment and there is not much going to live in it without me knowing.Took me 5 primary filter changes to get it filtered out and never had loss of power because I would change the primary before plugging.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Dub on May 25, 2020, 10:50:40 pm
I have a Racor I think it's called in the shop that my mechanic took off one of the Detroit's...Can't recall why he changed it to spin on but I'm thinking of mounting it on this Cummins.. Like said above it gives a good view of your fuel as it's clear plastic and a good 6 in round.. When water goes in the filter the fuel rises higher in the bowl.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 26, 2020, 12:02:15 am
Unlikely it came off a Detroit as the secondary filter is usually the one mounted on the engine. Right after the lift pump. The clear plastic Racors are the primary filter and are the first in line to catch the water and algae from the tank. Normally mounted down low on the frame rail but I have seen some 71 series with both on the engine but spin on. The heat, vibration and the plastic may not get along. I always mounted the Racors on the car firewall.

Pierce
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on May 26, 2020, 07:44:00 am
I had Keith R. polish my fuel last year in NAC. Keith is awesome and his price for this service is very fair. My fuel ended up being in good shape but I view it as a belt and suspenders type of thing.

I only fuel up at busy truck centers and top off the tank before storage, every time.




Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Michaelhayley on May 26, 2020, 07:59:00 am
Jeff and Sandy, we are in NAC now for sessions with Xtreme and MOT. Can I have more info about Kieth R? Fuel polishing might be worth doing. We had an algae  problem about a year ago, and had success with a marine product and a few fuel filter changes.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: AC7880 on May 26, 2020, 08:49:45 am
Jeff and Sandy, we are in NAC now for sessions with Xtreme and MOT. Can I have more info about Kieth R? Fuel polishing might be worth doing. We had an algae  problem about a year ago, and had success with a marine product and a few fuel filter changes.


Fuel polishing in NAC (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=36633.msg348881#msg348881) 

And: Diesel Fuel Polishing - Tank Cleaning (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=34625.msg319832#msg319832) 
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: wolfe10 on May 26, 2020, 09:17:48 am
I have a Racor I think it's called in the shop that my mechanic took off one of the Detroit's...Can't recall why he changed it to spin on but I'm thinking of mounting it on this Cummins.. Like said above it gives a good view of your fuel as it's clear plastic and a good 6 in round.. When water goes in the filter the fuel rises higher in the bowl.

Dub,

Be sure it is not the Racor model that was discontinued/superseded because of air leaks.

Post model here, or just to a Foreforum search for that model number.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: dsd on May 26, 2020, 10:36:41 am
https://www.amazon.com/Racor-Polisher-Diesel-10m-P510mam/dp/B00J909BF2/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Fuel+polishing+system&qid=1590503096&sr=8-3
Was looking at a coach that was suspected contaminated fuel. Was thinking that this was a alternative and would retain if a load of contaminated fuel was purchased. Didn't buy that coach but still think it's a great idea.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: wolfe10 on May 26, 2020, 10:59:52 am
As important is the "machine" is that does the polishing is WHERE in the tank the fuel is removed from to be polished.

It is in the BOTTOM of the tank where the water, dirt and algae are located.  So, it is important that that is where the pickup is for polishing.

And, best to "lean" the coach with the side where you will be accessing the tank for the polishing operation LOWER.  Wait a couple of hours and the "heavier than diesel" contaminants will migrate to that side.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: dsd on May 26, 2020, 11:43:58 am
Would be the perfect place for a drain. Lowest point. Also good for pickup location. Nevertheless running the fuel threw a polisher 5+ times addresses removing the suspended junk preventing it from settling to cook on the bottom of the tank. It cost more to slope the bottom of the tank and drain from the top like marine applications during manufacturing, but that's the starting point. Thousands of man hours have been spent on the prevention of contaminated fuel storage and delivery, and yet it still happens. Nothing to do with old fuel unused and stored in a coach for years. Everything gets old and goes bad. Water in fuel sensor may not indicate till the system has been static for hours to start detecting water. IMO
Scott
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on May 26, 2020, 12:21:41 pm
As important is the "machine" is that does the polishing is WHERE in the tank the fuel is removed from to be polished.

It is in the BOTTOM of the tank where the water, dirt and algae are located.  So, it is important that that is where the pickup is for polishing.

And, best to "lean" the coach with the side where you will be accessing the tank for the polishing operation LOWER.  Wait a couple of hours and the "heavier than diesel" contaminants will migrate to that side.

This is the way Keith does it....with a hard lean. He sucks everything out of the tank.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on May 26, 2020, 12:24:32 pm
Jeff and Sandy, we are in NAC now for sessions with Xtreme and MOT. Can I have more info about Kieth R? Fuel polishing might be worth doing. We had an algae  problem about a year ago, and had success with a marine product and a few fuel filter changes.

Keith R. Works at MOT and does polishing after hours.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Dub on May 26, 2020, 02:04:30 pm
The tag is gone on this filter for a proper name but Detroit uses them a lot in past applications.. Also with no secondary filter. I'm having no filtration issues but if there is a convientplace for servicing I may mount it on my 8.3. It does give a view of the fuel and has a drain cock on the bottom. Now let's see if I can bring up the photo.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Dub on May 26, 2020, 02:07:39 pm
Wouldn't mind doing away with my secondary as it is a bear to service.Then again having no filtration issues knee jerk tells me to invest my time in areas where issues exist. Thank goodness there aren't many presently.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Protech Racing on May 27, 2020, 10:54:45 am
 You can add a filter  and pick your micron  value.  . All you would need a one more set of lines. 
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Chris m lang on May 27, 2020, 12:17:11 pm
Dub, that looks like the daveco that I installed on my coach as the primary.  I really like the way it is set up sa filter gets topple up the fuel foes higher in the bowl. I think it is recommended that once fuel gets within 10% of top to change filter -- I always change mine when fuel gets about 2/3 up in clear bowl.It has a drain that I check for water.  I run a 10 micron filter in it with a 5 micron in secondary per my cummins mechanic friend.  in my opinion filters are cheap when you consider the ISM has electronic fuel pump and injection that will cost 5 Coach bucks or more to get overhauled.  The older ones with mechanical pumps and injectors are around 1 to 1.5 CB
The PO had the original racor primary bypassed and was using a 10 micron filter in secondary
Chris
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: craneman on May 27, 2020, 01:47:17 pm
Don't know if Foretravel added the primary on my '81 of if Hendrickson installed it with the chassis. Was trouble free for the 18 years we used it and it is still working leak free today. I am having to move the coach to my property as the property I stored all the old coaches sold. Started up like it had been used yesterday except for exhaust smoke.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 27, 2020, 02:02:06 pm
Wouldn't mind doing away with my secondary as it is a bear to service.Then again having no filtration issues knee jerk tells me to invest my time in areas where issues exist. Thank goodness there aren't many presently.
Very easy and cheap to install a remote secondary where access is easy. Without a good filter, no issues can become big issues out of the blue.

remote secondary diesel filter | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=remote+secondary+diesel+filter&_sacat=0)

Pierce
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Dub on May 28, 2020, 12:04:36 pm
There again it's one of those things that isn't causing a big problem so one tends to do projects in the order of importance.. I will say this, both Baldwin and Wix primary never let any of the algae I had pass to the secondary. I will likely in time put the filters side by side near where my primary is for easy access to both.. I imagine most owners of my model 8.3 has reached for the secondary that is tucked away pretty darn well. I change my primary but usually get an employee who is built like a snake fetch the secondary, I can do it but it does mess up a shirt. All input is good and all new owners and some seasoned owners need to make note of the FPPF Killem for Algae treatment and at least consider it because it "appears" to have cleared mine up.. I didn't want to drive 190 miles to Nachogdoches just for Keith to filter the fuel if "I didn't have to" because I know me and I would have bought something I can do without once I get in the store. Something else for the new owners, the drain cock on the bottom of a primary is perfect for draining off water and small trash BUT you would never get the strands of algae to pass thru it and it clings to the filter material as it should. Keep fuel clean, it makes going down the road a more beautiful thing.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on May 28, 2020, 12:47:41 pm
I didn't want to drive 190 miles to Nachogdoches just for Keith to filter the fuel if "I didn't have to" because I know me and I would have bought something I can do without once I get in the store..
If you drove to N to have Keith polish your fuel. that's a big waste of time, fuel and money. A super clean tank is only good until the next fill or the one after that, until the water/algae is introduced again into the "clean" tank. If you have a good primary, it does not matter much what is in the tank. My tractor tank (almost 500 gallons and 20 years old) is full of algae but I have a spin-on on the outlet. It catches everything and there is never any trace of algae, just red diesel. The old Case loves it as well as the OM22 diesel heater.

Pierce
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Lt403 on May 28, 2020, 09:35:23 pm
Does anyone use Biobor JF
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Forewheelers on May 28, 2020, 09:39:52 pm
Yes. Use a dose every fill up...
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: wolfe10 on May 28, 2020, 09:59:14 pm

Yes, and have for the last 20 years when storing diesel for over 2 months in summer or 3 in winter.  And tank ALWAYS full.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Protech Racing on May 28, 2020, 10:04:16 pm
Yes to Biobor.
 Get the big bottle on eBay.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: Tim Fiedler on May 28, 2020, 10:15:18 pm
Big mistake not to use BioBor
And leave tank full when possible
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: rbark on May 28, 2020, 10:19:13 pm
Yes. Used it on all the tuna boats and tow boats I ever worked on.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: bbeane on May 29, 2020, 12:36:33 am
Use it every fill.
Title: Re: Algea Treatment
Post by: John44 on May 29, 2020, 04:50:37 pm
I change the secondary with channel locks from the inside bedroom,is harder then the primary but would be much harder to redo
it,ours has run 239k miles with the stock filter system.If you read the fine print on every manufacturers filter the micron rating may be the same but the % is different, will make your head spin.