After too much reading I've decided that the 275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20 @ $398 each delivered. Would be a good fit for me. I like the fact that they are rated for off-road use and I do believe that just rolling over a rock can cause damage that will stay hidden till the worst possible time. I don't expect these to have the real nice ride, but fit into a more utility category. If anyone can add more information I would prefer to learn from others who have spent money's and can comment on the actual ride and life of these tires. Toyo m154 looked real good also. Was planning on 16 ounces Truck tire bead bags and on site installation was about 50$ per tire. If I drive to there shop it is 30$ tire. Think I prefer to get done while I work on the rest of the coach.
275/80R22.5 16PR H Uniroyal RS20 Steer | OTRUSA.COM (https://www.otrusa.com/product/27580r22-5-h-uniroyal-rs20-steer/)
(Yes the link says steer but they verified that was incorrect, all position)
Scott
We have them on our U300. Currently have 15K miles on them....Great tire when warm....abit sluggish when cold....however no tire checking like the MIchelins we came from.....Buy them...!! Chuck in TX likes them also.
I don't see what kind of Foretravel you have. We go off road all the time in our U300 with 295/75R22.5 with a brand mix on the rear and never have have a problem with rocks on gravel or dirt roads. No highway howl either.
Pierce
Their max load single is 6610. Our 7160 Xza 2'a required 107/97. Our XZA-3+'s 7610 rating means 97/87 pressures.
Those on our coach would need 117 and 107. Not good on our concrete block freeways.
Smooth Asphalt roads? Probably less of a problem.
What does your coach weigh on the front axle? You have 13,220 capacity available at 120.
Driving the Santa Ana freeway yesterday reminded me how much I liked the lower pressure front tires. Hardly noticeable that the road had concrete block bounces
Not wanting a tire brand war but this is probably a better fit for keeping the front axle weight in check.
https://www.speedytire.com/tires/toyo/m177/295-75r225-547130
Scott,
We installed that same tire (set of 6) 2 years ago. We have been perfectly satisfied with the performance in all respects. Since I could not be any happier with a set of tires, I don't see what spending more money (on Michelins?) would have gained me.
Our coach sits outside in our driveway when not on the road. We don't have a cover :'( so the tires get exposed to a lot of hot West TX sun. I am happy to report, after 2 years of this abuse, none of the tires show the slightest sign of cracks or checking.
I will heartily recommend the RS20 to any coach owner who asks for my opinion.
Link below to my original report on the tires when we had them installed:
Hanging At Camp FOT (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=33952.msg310838#msg310838)
The posters link has it at 6610 maybe a mistake there.
When we bought our coach from MOT in December of 2017, it had six new RS20's on the coach. I have zero complaints. I don't drive in any snow or anything but they perform well.
Dave
Nope, BOB is correct. Just went out and checked the sidewall on our RS20 tires. Max load single is 6610 at 120 psi (cold).
I will remove my post (above) with the incorrect tire pressure chart so as not to confuse future readers.
Don't know what the deal was with that other chart. When we bought our tires 2 years ago I went online to the Uniroyal tech page and copied that chart right off the site. Strange.
LIVE & LEARN!
Smooth roads. Within capacity. Great. Bad roads? Bad roads maybe not so much.
Drove our Xsa-2's at full pressure on nice roads. Great. Bad roads? Terrible.
Lowered pressures. Same on good roads. Directionally better. Bad roads much better.
Changed shock adjustment twice. Less roll stiffer. Worse ride on bad roads
Changed to FSD's. Wow. No sharp edge kickback. Same or better roll resistance
Went to xza-3+'s at 107/97 better from newer design. Steered
Going from G to H seems to add 1000 lbs capacity for each tire and another 15 psi out to about 125 psi in a 295/75. This is probably going to cause a harsher ride. Some tires have "rock ejectors" built into the tread pattern. At 110 psi on our G series, the ride is fine most of the time.
Pierce
Pierce. I've personally had tire issues with overloading and tearing/failing steel belting. Have read that the small sharp hard rocks damage the belting. All these tires failed statically. The RS20 were designed and protected against that type of damage. I'm just trying to get the most bang for the buck. The little town this is located in doesn't carry much selection. Hercules and double nickel. Just trying to get it figured out before we leave to inspect. Craneman again finds flaws in my judgement too which I really do respect. Max single load really could be higher. I actually had originally looked at the M177 but was hoping to use the same in all positions, wish I could explain why, but I'm thinking that may be flawed on my part. I really do like the idea of the 295-75R 22.5 for the extra inch of width. I'm not concerned about rubbing. This is exactly the information in need. Thanks for the input
Scott
Scott,
Did you mean double coin instead of double nickle? We are up for new steer tires this year so I have been calling around to the big dealers for input and prices. Double Coin tires get good reviews and placed second after Continental in a tire test Continental-Double-Coin-truck-tires-score-well-in-fuel-economy-test (https://www.rubbernews.com/article/20190124/NEWS/190129976/continental-double-coin-truck-tires-score-well-in-fuel-economy-test)
Reading some forum reviews, users seem happy with the tires and especially the fuel mileage.
As I said, we have older Coopers up front. They have a lot of small cracks developing, enough that considering their 11 year age, think it's time to change them out. In the back, we have Firestone/Bridgestone almost as old. The Firestone/Bridge looks like it was just put on with not even a trace of the smallest crack. Bridgestone casings are rated for a max of 15 year casing life for recapping.
What kind of tires did you have that came apart? Our Coopers in the front have quite a few of small chunks missing. The rear Firestone have none.
Also heard good things about the GreenMax, a tire made in Thailand. Here is a good idea of prices and lots of truck tires from dozens of manufacturers. https://www.ustireoutlet.com/products/
Pierce
The m-170 Toyo H can be used in all positions and has the 7160 single rating as a matter of fact navybean had 6 295/75R/22.5's put on here in my driveway. with the 7160 load limit.
New Owners (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=39461.msg388588#msg388588)
I had 6 RS20's put on at MOT when I bought it 9/17, had trouble with one on the front (1/18) and had toyos put on the front because the tire shop while on the road was out of them, but the 4in the back no issues. Uniroyal rep factory defected it and did me right on compensation
Keith
M170 Toyo H ,6 295/75R/22.5's 7160 load limit. Simple tire Will deliver on site for under $2500. Lots in stock, good reviews.
Four day shipping times. Thanks for the insight. Scott
Can you have them verify the DOT "build date" before they ship? You want 6 fresh tires, all with same (or close to it) build date.
Yes Chuck I will confirm date of manufacture. Won't order till I'm on site viewing coach. Like to have the run away clause active.
Again thanks everyone for good insight, saved me a bunch of further issues
Scott
Can't be too careful with tires. Bought a used Newell from Parliament coach in Tampa and had them put on a new set of Michelins. Drove home and found out the new tires were 10 years old! Took a couple months but had Parliament replace them in my town. They wanted me to drive 1500 miles back to them and I insisted to have them replaced locally. Found out later the tire stems had not been replaced after having one replaced on the road had them all replaced once back home.
Had MOT put new tires on another Newell I bought from them and specifically told them to have the tire shop replace the tire stems. Nope, had 2 tires leaking while we were loading into the new coach. Back to the tire shop for new stems.
I watched the guy mounting the new set on my FT after verifying myself the DOT dates. No problems!
Scott, in reply #11 you said "I really do like the idea of the 295-75R 22.5 for the extra inch of width."
By "extra inch of width" did you mean that the tread on the 295-75R 22.5 is one inch wider than the tread on the 275-80R 22.5.
I carefully measured the tread width on several different manufacturers 295-75R 22.5 tires and compared it to 275-80R 22.5 tires. There was no difference. I asked a Swab tire guy why 295 verses 275 and was told that the 295 and 275 are the width of the tires at the widest point (the side wall) and that 295 tires (Toyo and others) have a bigger bulge than 275 tires (Michelin), but the tread width and outer diameter are the same.
Wyatt. I was under the understanding that they were wider. I will look into them father Really looking for the best bang for the buck. Think with the higher single load rating would help to be a bit more conservative and allow possibly lower pressures. Still trending towards the M170. Any further input is greatly appreciated. Was swapping internal TPMS Sensors in my toad today and am actually thinking on installing The M170s myself. If done lots of tires up to 18 inch and the Utube makes them look within my means.. still really liked the Uniroyals RS20s off road rating, but the Tokyo's are at the top of my list. Thank you
Scott
Forest. Unimaginable. The ethics that our children's children Show do not represent ours. Do a good job, charge a fair price. Words for a time passed. Everything goes full circle. I did take possession of the new rebuilt Napa dryer today and gave a quick thought of you. This has been a huge project and I haven't even personally even seen the coach. Priced right but un-operated for many Many years. As I've said before worst case we take our parts and run, and I do mean run as fast as we can away. Thank you for your shared past wisdom. 10 year tire as new. Unimaginable!
Scott
I think you'll find that the only tire that will allow lower pressure for your axle weight is Michelin. Look at their inflation charts and look at Toyo's. I'm not affiliated with Michelin and I have had some problems in the past with premature weather checking on their sidewalls, but if you're interested in a softer ride then I would recommend them for steer tires.
Like that you call them Tokyo's.
You are not buying tires for a sports car. Unless you plan on entering autocross races with your new coach, I seriously doubt that you would ever notice any "handling" difference with 1" more or less tread width on the steer tires.
Aside from handling better, all things equal, wider tires stop faster as there is more "meat" on the road. The taller the coach is like a U280/U300, the more it will seem to move around in crosswinds, bad roads, construction zones, etc. with more flexible sidewalls. Newer drivers of these coaches may try to chase the feeling with steering inputs until they get used to it. One of the reasons I like a stiffer sidewall in our tires.
Last year, we replaced the tires on our ML320 with the larger and much wider optional size. About two months ago, a bus going the other way on a boulevard ran through a red left turn light at high speed and a high speed collision seemed certain. Max braking with the ABS with all dogs flying to the front seat made an impossible stop perhaps 6 feet before hitting the bus midships. (Atturo AZ800, best tire I've had on a SUV)
Pierce
Your ML320 is not the same (braking wise) as a U320.
I would agree with your statement, but only if the "skinny" coach tires are skidding (locking up or breaking loose) during the braking maneuver.
If one never exceeds the traction capability of the "skinny" tires, then adding additional tread width gains you no braking advantage.
How many coach owners (especially Foretravel owners) ever use their brakes hard enough to make the front tires skid?
Happens very seldom I would guess. On icy roads, of course, it may be common. Extra width wouldn't help on ice.
The Foretravel owners blessed with retarders hardly ever use their brakes at all.
I'm just saying 1" extra width is not a
critical factor in
coach tire selection. Other factors much more important. My opinion.
If you are going to try to break down and reinstall the tires you will need some tools most people don't have. Besides these to break down the tires you will need jacks, and the tools to remove and install them.
Chuck I agree, no autocross. But I will be driving down semi graded dirt roads every destination we go to. Sometimes for miles. Durability. Sidewall damage, flotation are genuine concerns of mine. This is not a offroad vehicle, but we will be towing a trailer, offroad vehicle, or Fat Fat toad. Will also need to drive across the states from Nevada to Michigan and North Carolina for Family several times a year.
Scott
No, not a critical factor but noise, ride, stability, resistance to cracking, reviews are all part of the selection process with price added in but not at the expense of safety.
Several elk came out of no where in Yellowstone. I lightly locked up all 6 in the U300. To me, the little extra width is just a little extra insurance and a little shorter stopping distance in an emergency. It's like insurance, 99.9% of the time you don't need it but when you do...
Naturally our ML320 is not the same braking as a U320. I was comparing the latest tire mounted on the SUV to other tires in the past. Before buying any tire for any vehicle, I read the reviews and after purchasing them, I was extremely happy with the tires before our emergency stop. The turn in is great, no noise, good ride, works well in the wet and good in the snow. Other tires in the past have picked up a rhythmic noise as the miles increased, sloppy handling, etc. so I was happy even before I had to make a quick stop. All tires for SUVs or RVs have their pluses and minuses so when I find one I like and it gives good service, I'm pleased.
So, considering our 295/75R22.5 Coopers for the U300, would I buy them again? Probably not. Love the size, ride, noise level but the little bit of sidewall checking and good but not outstanding handling could be better.
Also, just my opinion.
Pierce
This is what I have. Sourcing two stage 12-14 ton jack
Scott
Craneman. I've never broke down a (speculating) 12 year old 22.5. How difficult is the bead to break. I've changed drive tires on my 580D case
Worse case I cut the bead? Compleat unknown
Utube makes it look effortless. Expert broke down 8 in five minutes
Scott
Pour a dish soap and water solution on the bead and use the slide hammer tool you have to break the beads. Make sure to put some carpeting over the flat area you are going to use to avoid scratches. Not that difficult. The new ones usually slide on without tools on the first side then tools to finish the other side.
Another factor to consider when speaking of tire traction and contact with the road is weight PSI. On any given vehicle when comparing wide tires verses "skinny" tires is the weight per square inch. Wider tires will have less weight per square inch than a narrower tire. True, wider tires give more floatation on soft surfaces but I don't necessarily believe they give you more traction on hard surfaces unless the wider tires are run with less air pressure and are "softer" as in a drag car.
Disclaimer:
I'm an electrician and not a mechanical engineer. 😎
That's was my plan but will include vacuum pump to pull a low vacuum on tire to help beak bead if needed
New tires always go on easy. Seating them some times can be difficult, but I do have some tricks for that. Prepurchased truck large balance beads
Have never used them and looking forward to learning there not just snake oil. Actually put them in toad yesterday during TPMS sensor swap.
Scott
Surface area and friction are the main stopping and accelertating factors.
Justin yes more flotation means lower contact loading. That white stuff peaple drive on certainly does better with higher contact loads, I better stay away from that.
Scott
As a English major, I'm even less qualified than most to discuss engineering principles. One should
always read my posts with due skepticism.
The high volume fmca tire dealer/shop in our area used an air driven hand tool with a wire wheel on it to clean the rim where the bead rests, bare metal.
The mounting grease contained no water. Water in lithium grease for example rusts the inner carcasses cord belt.
Use only dry air or dry nitrogen for the same reason, You may need to fill and let out the pressure several times to remove as much as possible of the humid air that was in the tire during assembly.
Not a truck. Less miles, more years, no water or water vapor in the tire.
Mylers makes a non water tire mounting lube. No soap.
No beads. Centrimatic tire balancers cannot block the stem.
This is REAL work as everything is heavy.
In filling the tire they use a longer hose for safety and the tire and rim are inserted into a ground mounted multiple thick steel bar circular cage and the tire tech moves away from the area while filling it.
No way I would try this at home,
High volume high pressure dry air is needed to seat the bead and fill the tire.
They deflated and refilled my set 3 times to lessen the water vapor in the tire,
All the tire failures I witnessed at my Foretravel store long ago had rusted to the point of failure tire carcasses.
This IS different from normal mounting.
These tires weigh 150? pounds each.
The shop used a rolling rig to slide the tire sideways I think to align it with the studs.
You will need a giant torque wrench to tighten the studs and a support for the extension needed.
If you use extensions they need supports(rubber pieces) that go into the rim that the extension goes through.
The coach produces dry air BTW. Just would take forever as the volume and pressure were not made to fill six tires
you mean these tools?
tools to R&R wheels (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=31018.msg271508#msg271508)
Yes. Plus this
Workhorse Safety Series - 5-150 psi Digital Tire Inflator w/ 6' Hose W (https://powertank.com/products/workhorse-safety-series-5-150-psi-digital-tire-inflator)
Plus they did not drop the top tires off of the tire stack. They used another tire to "roll" the tires off the stack.
Too dangerous and physically hard to drop the tire off unguided.
Two guys did the unstacking..
No water anywhere is best.
Power tank sells co2 tanks as the storage is liquid not gas and can fill the tires easier.
CO2 does go though the carcass faster although
Regardless of weight, the wider the tire, the shorter distance it takes to stop. The lower profile the tire is, the more stable it is in stopping and handling. Look at the width of tires on high performance cars today. I have several thousand laps in race cars under my belt. My tires were as wide as the regulations allowed as were everyone else's. The tire pressures were different for each tire and track as well as weight on each corner. On oval tracks, only the front left tire had a significantly lower pressures. At the end of every straight away, it's a max brake effort until the brakes overheat.
In sports car racing, the fastest manufacture from the year before gets a weight penalty to make racing more competitive. Added weight means longer braking distances, slower acceleration and slower corner speeds. Only a little bit but it's there.
So, the lighter a car, the shorter distance it takes to stop with the same tires, The wider the tire, the faster it stops with the same weight.
And contrary to old school opinion, the lighter the car, the better it rides with today's progressive shocks and springs engineered for that specific car.
Pierce
True, IF (yes big IF) tires are the "weak link"
But, it would surprise me if the brakes on a heavy coach are sufficiently strong to actually lock up the wheels/tires except on slick surfaces.
In my early rv days I tried to lock up coach tires. As Brett said very difficult. Snow or rain yes.
If you have an old carpet or blanket, place the tire on it. If you can't break the bead with a slide hammer, etc. drive slowly up on the tire so the tire of your vehicle just misses the wheel. If the wheel is visible where it has been pressed down but won't come off, I spray something like Armor All on the rubber. I then rotate the tire a bit and repeat the effort. If you have a tractor with a front loader, rotating the bucket so the sharp edge is down and then using the blade to push down on the tire next to the wheel.
Pierce
Don't go by the pressure you have to use on the brake pedal. It's only a valve with a spring to simulate brake pressure. It has to feel like a car pedal or most drivers would have a problem applying the brakes. You can change treadel valves or replace the spring so full application does not take that much pressure.
With 125 psi and warm Meritor brakes, full brake application will lock up all tires on asphalt unless there is a problem with the slack adjusters, etc. Drivers are just reluctant to push down as hard as they can on the treadle valve. Cold Meritors don't make the first stop well.
At 36 feet, our coach is ligher than many plus we don't travel with full water, etc.
Pierce
Pierce I used to have to yell at customers during unihome demo rides to "PUSH HARD ON THE BRAKES"
Impressive especially in a u300 with the retarder
Meritors are cold blooded. I tend to warm them up regularly during drives. Retarder off.
When warm i Tend to turn off the retarder but keep a hand free to turn the retarder switch on in stop and go freeway traffic.
Crazy folks in a hurry on so cal freeways sometimes.
In stop and go I do use the retarder on its 2nd position versus the brakes. Less work.
Have changed wheel assemblies countless times, Tires rated for 46,000 lbs. 42 inches tall, 36 ply, probably 20 inches wide. Service pressure 210 psi. But that being said have never broke down a 22.5. I have it set up too be done if it ends up being beyond my capacity. But I am tooling up to be able to change.
So how short must a jack be to clear the jack point with a flat tire? I searched history some but have not found. Was planning on a two stage Short bottle 14 ton. Worse case scenario would be better to have and never use. May need to be a three stage, hope not. They start getting real costly
Scott
You will be jacking under the axles and there is plenty of room for an air jack from HF or any bottle jack. You don't need the 2 stage.
That is true. In my case, it is because the DW does NOT appreciate everything in all
her kitchen cabinets getting "rearranged".
I have learned that smooth, gentle stops go a long way towards keeping her (and our little dog) happy.
Happy Wife = Happy Life.
I bought our 20 ton air/hydraulic jacks for $59/each on sale. They are on sale all the time. The 12 ton would work fine but they were the same price online. They lift the coach like it was not even there with no work on your part. Below are a couple of photos of the jack in action. Loosen the lug nuts first, lift coach until the wheel is about 1/16" inch off the ground, remove all nuts and saw the tire back and forth until it clears the studs. Keep tire dead upright and roll it to where you want to work on it. Lower it a bit and release. It's nice to have a metal tool so the jack can't slip off of what the small end is on. Big end should be on concrete or something so it does not slip and come off. Use jack stands just to make sure.
Again, the air hydraulic jacks are really excellent. I made the little plate just in case and it makes it so I don't even have to look at it. The photos show the jack being used to change an air bag. You can see how far it lifts. Use coach air or a small compressor.
Pierce
Yes but if the rim was on the ground , tire flat the HF air bottle jack will fit under the axles? Is this correct. I'll order tonight If it will fit
Scott
If you are down on the rim you will need the short stubby jack HF has then do a transfer to a taller jack. The short stubby under the axle then transfer to a taller jack or extend out the stubby jack when you can get a stand under the axle mounting plate.
Mike
Two flat tires on the same rear axle you are having a real bad day. You can always drive up on a 2x6 to get more clearance.
Yes bad day indeed. But one front flat tire will need the same short jack won't it. Yes can alway roll onto a 2x12.
Strongway 12-Ton Hydraulic High-Lift Double Ram Bottle Jack | Northern Tool (https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641737_200641737)
8 7/8 minimum, 23 5/8 maximum.
Will this fit under?
Scott
I'll take a measurement tomorrow.
The HF 12 ton jack works fine for me. I also use the 3/4 drive battery impact. Dis mounting was as described. A nice thick blanket will help the shiny parts.
The Ebay large tire tools worked but I cut off part of the lever. Now it is easy.
16oz of plastic BBs seems to work fine also. Large enough to not plug anything up . But pay attention to getting in the bead . Take your time . not bad . I did 2 a day.
Not sure, I have a 12 ton (you are just lifting one side at at a time) that is 7" tall and it will just fit if you are on a hard surface and on the wheel.
Mike
The tire beads I purchased are 1/10 of a inch. So last night I installed beads in my toad ( 2006 Dodge 3500 mega cab). Please understand I think they are snake oil. Anyway today me and D/W ran down to the steel supplier to purchase gate material and the hop I've driven with for over a decade with multiple different tires and truck on 215 in Henderson Nevada is gone. I've spent thousands on shocks, tires, shackles but everyone has that darn hop in pickup trucks with leaf springs
Well it's gone. 8 ounces can really make that much of a difference. I'm Amazed. The electric impact are amazing yet scary. After a very light install I put a torque wrench on the lug nuts to torque to 140 and they were all within one half of one flat of being at 140. I have very little sense how tight they get so quickly. Scott
Tire beads
Road force balancing helps as does dynamic balancing. And having tires with no carcass overlap(hard spot)
Under the I-beam, it's 10.25 inches and the HF 20 ton is 10.50 inches minimum. However, if you go forward inboard of the shocks, there are several places on the 3"x4" tubing to lift the coach with a lot of space even with a tire dead flat. You can see that I don't lift the coach on the rear axle but my adapter is forward on the big bulkhead angle iron and the 3"x4" tubing. It's easy and the coach can't slip off the jack.
It should be noted that the minimum and the maximum on the jack can't be accomplished in one event. Rather, you must stop, lower on a jack stand, lower the jack and unscrew the top of the jack to gain more height.
More than speed, safety is the most important consideration in lifting the coach. We used tp get the CHP monthly magazine at the station. Frequently, there would be photos of an accident where the car slipped off the jack with someone underneath. These photos never made the newspaper.
Pierce