Hello to all,
I am still waffling about what to use in engine bay. My original stuff is falling all over the engine. Has anyone used soundown Microlite insulation? If not what soundown was used.
i lined my engine compartment about 10 years ago with a product, i believe
was called dynamat. easy to install and still looks good. i am editing this post.
dynamat was not the product. i used ez cool
I used EZ Cool in the engine compartment and the generator compartment. Really like it. Lightweight. Been installed over five years now. No heat in bedroom and quieter. I did double it up in the engine compartment.
I used spray adhesive AND the fender washers and screws to hold it in place.
EZ Cool is in Texas or Home Page - ESP, Inc. Home of Low-E Insulation (http://www.low-e.com)
Our engine compartment was a mess with the insulation dropping down onto the turbo. I used R-19 Fiberglas covered with Hardie Backerboard. Really cut the heat in the bedroom. Used standoffs to give space for the R-19 and then stainless fasteners. Photo of my fire test says it all. Painted with white latex. Nothing gets through Hardie. See YouTube blowtorch tests.
I also did the fridge compartment with Hardie. No insulation but covered every square inch. Fridge compartment is the most important on the coach.
Generator compartment is also bad but have not done it yet.
Pierce
I also did the Dynamat insulation. I removed the stock heat blanket, fully lined everything with Dynamat, then put the stock blankets back on. On the inside, I removed all the carpet and black mat, lined the entire bedroom floor and bed pedestal with the Dynamat, then put in new pad and carpet.
The difference is noise is really good, but the heat difference is amazing. We get no noticeable heat from the engine compartment any more. Glad we did it.
I have a big box of sound down insulation meant for the engine compartment and the generator. Just haven't had time to do it. I'm going to take it with me on my trip this summer and hopefully one of these days get around to it. I think the sound down is probably the best product for it. Not only do you want heat coverage but also sound and I think that this product will do the best at both. Truth is though if the engine catches fire it's not going to matter if you have something that's going to block heat or not.
I need to do the same thing. Does the majority of you guys rip out the old stuff? Or better off to over the top of the old stuff?
I scraped on it until every trace was gone.
P
Rip er out!
Black, old, heavy crumbling insulation, will plug radiator. Get rid of it!
Having experienced an engine room fire on a diesel boat, I'm extremely cautious about what product I use around turbos. Looks like the existing insulation will burn, I can confirm Soundown burns vigorously with huge amounts of orange smoke and drips molten lead to boot. Some of this stuff used looks to be metallized plastic? No thanks.
I'm leaning toward using rigid fiberglass duct board with aluminum facing. Probably 2". This stuff is sound deadening, will not burn, and is readily fabricated in a neat fashion, lightweight,very durable ,reasonably attractive and locally available everywhere.
Chuck,
This will wok just fine and several of the members here have used it.
Mike
Do those of you replacing with the fiberglass duct board remove the furniture blankets, or mount over/through them?
My original blankets still appear to be in decent shape, just dirty and hard to keep clean.
Thanks,
Trent
Just remember that anything with an aluminum face will melt quickly with a direct flame. Good for sound and heat but not for flame. In steel buildings, cement is sprayed over the steel beams to keep them from losing strength and failing when in contact with a fire.
Pierce
Improving the engine bay is on my list this month as well. I like the fiberglass and hardie backer approach. What am I going to find as the substrate after removing the crumbling black insulation?
Most likely will be plywood
Fiberglass is not a good choice: it's flammable !
Considering that the engine area is the second most common place for RV fires you should look for a non flammable sound deadening foam with a radiant heat barrier.
There are lots out there like this one from soundproof cow. Quiet Barrier™ Specialty Composite - Soundproof Cow (https://www.soundproofcow.com/product/quiet-barrier-specialty-composite-2/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvcerstn46QIVC2-GCh3oywarEAQYCCABEgKDQvD_BwE)
Good luck with your project
David
David,
Let's take a look at your post. First, the R-19 is underneath the super fire restive Hardie Backerboard where no flame can get anywhere near it even if it were flamable. Second, do you think every house with Fiberglas in the walls and ceiling is a fire trap? As a career firefighter, I made countless inspections of business and homes, all in accordance with the N.F.P.A. guidelines. Do you think insurance companies would insure homes insulated with flammable insulation?
That is why as soon as I bought out U300, I started making the fridge and engine compartment as fire restive as possible.
Google is a good search engine to come up to speed on these topics. The only thing incendiary so far is your post.
Fire resistance
Made from sand and recycled glass, fiberglass insulation is naturally non-combustible and remains so for the product's life. It requires no additional chemical treatments. Many building codes also recognize fiberglass insulation as an acceptable fire stop in wood- and steel-framed wall assemblies.
The kraft face glued on some fiberglass rolls is the only thing flammable.
Pierce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NC79e0oztM
Pierce, I think he might be confusing "fiberglass insulation " with just plain old "fiberglass" as in boats, motorhomes and the like.
Yes, one is made from sand and glass and the other from a combination of fiberglass and petro chemicals. But when you come in the room with both guns blazing...
So, all fiberglass is made from silica sand ,soda ash, and limestone (types of sand and ash may vary) and is not flammable. It's only when a polymer (petro chemical) is added that the polymer combination becomes flammable (the actual "fiberglass" may melt but does not burn).
Pierce
Regardless of whether it's fiberglass insulation or just plain fiberglass, has anybody ever seen an engine fire on a motor coach where the motor coach was not totaled afterwards? Now in a lot of boats there are fire extinguishers built into the engine compartment that will put a fire out lickety split. But even with that you're talking major bucks. If my Cummings caught fire it would get pretty hot in there maybe hardy board would stop most of it but it's going to get through. Either the whole coach is going to go up, or you're going to have such a high restoration bill that most insurance companies would probably total coach anyway. I may be wrong on this and if anybody has any true stories to tell I'd like to hear it.
Installing Hardie Backerboard in the engine compartment is not intended to stop an engine fire but first, to allow occupants time to safely evacuate the vehicle and if the fire is small enough, give either a fire extinguisher or the fire department the possibility of saving the coach.
A forum member with a U300 called me several years ago. He had turbo work done a couple of hundred miles earlier and the shop left off a clamp on the turbo. The turbo pipe fell off and started the engine compartment wall on fire. He said by the time he discovered it and pulled off the road, he just had time to grab is computer and along with his wife, evacuate the vehicle before the living space was completely filled with smoke and the entire vehicle involved right after that.
While flames will NOT go through the Hardie Board, they will go around it, catching the rest of the coach on fire. The protection it gives acts as a delay. It's addition along with added insulation, will make the rear area cooler and allow less noise in the bedroom.
But the full example of saving the coach is the lining the fire prone refrigerator compartment where there is a very limited amount of fuel and the Hardie Backerboard WILL stop any fire before it can extend beyond the compartment. This includes the roof. If you view my fridge compartment photos, you can see there is no area that is not covered. There is not enough fuel available to catch the interior of the fridge on fire. A disaster will be averted and only the fridge will have to be replaced.
Most of the time it's the smoke that is deadly to people. It does not take much to incapacitate or kill and can take only seconds for this to happen. In the case of an engine fire, extra time will allow a safe evacuation so you will be able to Journey, Roam and Explore.
You can view the YouTube video below to become familiar with the fire restive properties of the cement board. This is only one of several videos on YouTube on the Hardie Backerboard.
Pierce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0hYlXnPewM&t=364s
A good reminder that all check, and replace as needed their smoke detectors.
Pierce I agree completely. I've used hardie board in my homes in both the past and present home. Great stuff but breaks easily, at least the panel kind does.
Just replaced both my smoke detectors and CO detectors. Both were 20 years old.
Hopefully if the engine ever catches fire, your driving and can get out quickly. Good thing these beasts are diesel and not gas.
I also just finished installing all new detectors. They were all original to the coach when new.
Pierce,
Do you have to cover the engine with a tarp or something when scrapping it off. When I did the generator compartment it was a mess.
John M.
Not Pierce, but I sure would!
I didn't but it sounds like a good idea.
As I remember, it came off on the overhead pretty quickly and in big pieces. It's been so many years that I can't remember exactly how I did it. The boards had to be cut, painted and drilled for the stainless screws/washers, the insulation put into place and the screws started so they went in straight but not too far.
One piece of HB won't cover the overhead. I usually try to minimize the time it takes and this one looks easy but it was a little tougher than expected. Just awkward. I had been leaning/lying down from above installing the insulation/board but had a sharp pain. An umbilical hernia sent me to the hospital fast. After the mesh was installed and I was sewn up, I got home but when I took off my shirt, I still had the IVs in my arm. The hospital tried to get me to drive back but not about to make that trip.
Memories :-X
Pierce
My 2 Cents. I worked on Life Safety and Fire Suppression systems for about 15 years. The goal is to protect life first, if you save the vehicle that's just a bonus. I'm still considering adding an engine fire suppression system, and or installing some form of fuel cut off to give us more time to evacuate. If you've ever seen a big rig turbo diesel fire it's pretty difficult to suppress, I just want to GTFO quickly.
Fire protection with foam and a heat sensor may help. The diesel may run for several miles before the operator notices it. The big RV fire I made the YouTube video on was the result of a hydraulic hose failure. Lots of combustible liquids back there. Imagine a mid-entrance coach with either an engine fire or a fridge fire. You have to head back almost half way toward the toxic smoke before you can get out. No two fires are the same so you can't really prepare for all of them. The biggest thing is to get out without anything else in mind.
No fires are the same. Some are small and spread slowly, while others spread super rapidly. It's not usually the fire that kills, it's the smoke. And no two people react the same to fire either. Most of the time cool heads become frantic heads.
We had a big department store fire where some child played with a lighter toward the back of the store. It caught some plastic on fire and spread so rapidly, customers just had time to get out the front door. Our station was only a mile away but the time we got there, the huge front windows were gone and fire was coming out to the street. No sprinklers. Too bad.
Pierce
Ever since we had a house fire years ago I have been an advocate of having a fire extinguisher right next to our bed where I can reach out and touch it or pick it up to use. This is true both in our coach and our house. A lot of good a fire extinguisher does if it is on the other side of the fire from you.
Of course our coach came with the usual mandatory fire extinguisher next to our mid-entry door but I added another one right below it, so now there are two.
If one is good, then two are better. Not that I plan on fighting any fires. I just plan on having enough protection to get me, the DW, and Rocket out.
And if this suggestion saves just one person's life or prevents burns, it is well worth the time to post it.