Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: dsd on June 18, 2020, 10:15:43 pm

Title: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 18, 2020, 10:15:43 pm
So as many I have been lurking for a Foretravel, I didn't want to buy someone's real nice coach, need nothing just to end up rebuilding everything anyway. I didn't start out looking for a Foretravel, however by disqualification of SOB this is were I ended up. In doing so I have been indirectly responsible for two other Foretravel coaches being purchased by friends because of the build quality. Back in February Mr Lynn Sickel's son found what I was looking for or so I think. "Barn Find". Hasn't ran since 2012. Probably will need everything. Probably has rotten fuel in it. Nothing works! Nothing. 2001 U320 36' single slide. Still extended. Current owner knows nothing about it. Mileage unknow. Again nothing works. The price is right for me with the cost of parts. Labor is on me. I personally would not recommend this much project to anyone, but once fixed most will be new. I've got more in my repair estimate than the coach.  Yes I'm confident it has frozen. I'm figuring but not limited to tires, batteries, fuel lines, aqua hot, refrigerator, air conditioner x 2, rotten fuel, all filters on primary systems, dryer, airbags leveling valve/s. It's been under cover and out of direct sunlight. It looks in photos to have limited corrosion. If it's rusted out I'll be gone in under a hour of first seeing it. Oh yes I forgot it 1200 miles from home in the middle of a cotton field, in the middle of July. Of the 100 things to check before you buy a Foretravel I'm concerned about the basics. Corrosion. Having 400k miles? the rest can be fixed. If someone has a similar coach U320 99-03 36' speak up and let me know before I'm ALL IN. With all the negatives it still is a really nice coach that I would be proud to own. Before the first 100 miles it will be in safe roadworthy condition. I'm figuring ten days to prep to move.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Johnstons on June 18, 2020, 10:33:00 pm
You might be pleasantly surprised....or not.  Where is the coach?  Someone may go look it over with you. 
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Caflashbob on June 18, 2020, 10:42:02 pm
Buying these is like putting a valuable body part on a railroad track and hoping a train does not come by.

We rolled the dice 8 years ago,  doubled our initial investment. 

Well worth it to us.  Three days at the beach thru today.  A pleasure.

Go for it. 
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 18, 2020, 11:10:23 pm
I've inspected about a half dozen
 Yes there are several members that said they too will meet us the first day. Very exciting or terrifying . Plan for the worst hope for the best.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on June 18, 2020, 11:14:21 pm
See older discussion for details:

Barn find??? (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=38856.0)
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 19, 2020, 07:27:29 am
More pictures
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Jack Lewis on June 19, 2020, 08:45:52 am
We rolled the dice 8 years ago,  doubled our initial investment. Go for it.
I agree with Caflashbob, I knew the FT I have now, would be sold before I could have an outside inspection, or I had a chance to buy.  Along with Bob, I too had years of experience placing a value on an rv, usually without seeing the unit, only looking at a piece of paper with the owners description,  and posibly talking to the owner, usually not.  I rolled the dice 3 years ago, no regrets.

I drove it 15 miles, looked for rust underneath or delamination on sidewalls or roof, did not find any, looked for water stains & odors inside, none.  I assumed it needed rolocks replaced and posible basement structure repair, it did not.  I assumed it needed brakes front and rear, it did not, only new wheel seals and brake pins & spring maintenance.  I assumed it needed all services, for the air system, fuel, oil, etc, front end and brake inspections, needed modified sine wave inverter replaced with pure sine wave. I did all right after purchase including new tires and safety  inspection.

In the next two years replaced all furniture, flooring, batteries, tv, new fuel lines, residential refrigerator, tank monitors, EMS, and solar.

So yes, I rolled the dice too, no regrets, none. So $14,000 later, after purchase, I'm content.  I did all the upgrade work myself, except for residential refrigerator, front end, and brake work.

If the floorplan is what you want, the rv drives, it appears to you to be clean inside, and in exceptionally good condition, go for it.  An inspection is nice, if not available, not a deal breaker.  Do have an inspection before driving home.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: folivier on June 19, 2020, 09:03:00 am
The picture showing the front if that is 3M Diamondshield with mold under it then you'll have to remove the film.  That can be a very time consuming job.  Just an FYI.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Carol Savournin on June 19, 2020, 09:13:59 am
We (make that ME) removed the 3M coating on the front of our '02 shortly after we took ownership. I did not have to use any sort of heat gun to soften it. Just plastic razor blades, some kind of lethal solvent (recommended by James Stallings and the guys at Xtreme) and the Nacogdoches blazing sun in July.  Holy cow ... I was unable to hold a utensil to eat my supper at the end of the day after scritch scritch scritching that stuff off for hours on end.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 19, 2020, 10:08:57 am
I will perform the pre- purchase inspection in great detail, I'll also be responsible for repairs myself. Yes the 3M Diamondshield will have to go, after in goes back to southern Nevada. Ive put together every thing I can imagine needing to cut down on trips to order parts. Will take a fuel polishing system equipped to 2 micron. Seven polishing filter, more available at Napa. Six primary filter, two secondary. Wiper blades, three gen filters. Oil filter for both. Air filter both. Three group 31 batteries. Coolant filter, and many many more. Tires on site. Chassis grease needs. Hub and diff oil. Dryer assembly, level valve. D2 regulators 2, Four spare airbags and a couple of weeks blocked out so as not to rush it. Corrosion would be the kiss of death for the deal. It's within my skill set but I lack basement rebuild motivation. If this site didn't exist I would never take this project on. There are hundreds of hours of reading prior posts. So much combined knowledge and skills at every level. So many People with there prior posts provided the inspiration without even being aware. Thank you or curse you. I'll  have a clear understanding in a month from now. Betting on Thank You.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 19, 2020, 10:12:48 am
12*** club member. Can anyone share any information?  Got PM and Have information. Thank you
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 19, 2020, 11:44:43 am
The picture of the engine bay looks really clean.  Corrosion may not be an issue, I have seen much worse.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on June 19, 2020, 12:05:25 pm
The picture of the engine bay looks really clean.
Same with the generator - really clean.

However, the generator compartment insulation is badly decomposed and falling down.  To avoid potential problems, need to remove loose stuff before operating the genny,
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: John44 on June 19, 2020, 12:58:58 pm
Did I read it right,it has 400K miles?
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: craneman on June 19, 2020, 01:11:36 pm
Guessing typo, probably 40k
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 19, 2020, 01:55:57 pm
Nothing works. Mileage is a compleat unknown. No power. No batteries.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 19, 2020, 02:06:43 pm
If anyone has any suggestions for a 12+ year non operated coach please feel free to give me your input. There is a lot of other stuff I'm taking, but it's always easier to learn from others
Thanks Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Caflashbob on June 19, 2020, 02:30:09 pm
Show up with a new set of both batteries banks
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: craneman on June 19, 2020, 02:35:57 pm
He posted he is taking 3 new group 31 start batteries, carrying 450 lbs of house batteries might be overkill. Local pick up of one wet cell to get home with might be better.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 19, 2020, 02:39:29 pm
Not going to mess with coach batteries. All I need to do is get generator started. I'll never shut it off. Hopefully one of the three ac units will work. My dw sanity may depend on it. Taking 134 to charge front coach air. Too
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 19, 2020, 02:41:20 pm
Will tow truck back. It's set up. So I am load limited what I can take also
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: propman on June 19, 2020, 05:09:40 pm
"Go for it" easy for us to say, but go for it! If it all works out you will smile so big your heart will gain back few years :-)
My personal opinion, how ever much you are paying for it add $10K to it.
Good luck, enjoy.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: gracerace on June 19, 2020, 06:11:50 pm
Rats, field mice, or squirrels would be the kiss of death for me.

Other wise, looks like the summer of love.

Have fun, keep us posted

Chris
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Forewheelers on June 19, 2020, 06:25:58 pm
Since I saw it last February, I've thought it was a keeper. It's a fixer upper, but it's doable. As far as corrosion, I think it's minimal. As far as varmints, hopefully there was enough cats running around that farm to keep them run off. Good luck Scott. I'm at your service if you need help. I think it will fire up and run. I'm just glad to see it getting moved off that cotton plantation and loved again.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 19, 2020, 07:49:46 pm
I just had the craziest thought. May be he put fuel stabilizer in it? Nah my luck couldn't be that good. Very excited to get back there. Yes the little varmints can do a lot of damage. We rarely have problems with small varmints. Usually just rabbits. But I've had to relocate three mice a day for the last 3 weeks. No cat here would eat all the lizards. Also been averaging one Antelope chipmunk a day. It will probably need a slide bladder also. Aluminum tape and foam tubing to get home 10K in repairs I WISH. I'll dream thou
 Think that year slide has to be removed. Yes what a exciting summer. Thank you Mr Sickel  and Mr Lang! It takes a Community to raise a child or move a nearly abandoned foretravel. Thank you everyone
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: DavidS on June 19, 2020, 07:56:53 pm
Holy cow ... I was unable to hold a utensil to eat my supper at the end of the day
Thats what Duct Tape is for.. To help on those Hot days.

Who needs fingers lol


Good luck Scott.. We are here for you.. Like I told you yesterday.. after you do some repairs and actually use it... Thats when the payoff begins.... Fun fun
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Johnstons on June 20, 2020, 11:31:41 am
I get so excited when someone takes on these projects to restore a coach.  Who was the guy in California who found the old SE that had sat for years and got it going?  I can't remember his name but his adventures kept me entertained.  Best wishes on this one.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: gracerace on June 20, 2020, 12:18:41 pm
I just had the craziest thought. May be he put fuel stabilizer in it? Nah my luck couldn't be that good. Very excited to get back there. Yes the little varmints can do a lot of damage. We rarely have problems with small varmints. Usually just rabbits. But I've had to relocate three mice a day for the last 3 weeks. No cat here would eat all the lizards. Also been averaging one Antelope chipmunk a day. It will probably need a slide bladder also. Aluminum tape and foam tubing to get home 10K in repairs I WISH. I'll dream thou
 Think that year slide has to be removed. Yes what a exciting summer. Thank you Mr Sickel  and Mr Lang! It takes a Community to raise a child or move a nearly abandoned foretravel. Thank you everyone

Yup, slide has to come out, ask me how I know. Takes a fork lift, or we had a large table with hydraulic lift. Hopefully the hydraulic hose's have had the HWH recall done.

I would drop one of the center pan's wire chase's to look for mice.They love that place, and lots of good stuff to nibble on. Again, ask me how I know.

Keep us in the loop.

Chris
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 20, 2020, 05:32:35 pm
Chris great information. Yes I will. I have forklifts at home.  Center pan wire chase cover?  Located bottom of slide when open?
Thanks Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: craneman on June 20, 2020, 06:09:04 pm
Center pan wire chase is in the top of the bays, runs from the engine to the front.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: FourTravelers on June 21, 2020, 07:22:08 am
Scott,
I would suggest to take at least a "cheapie" 12v car battery just to have a good  battery in the "coach battery" position. Thinking it wouldn't cost much or weigh much and may be helpful to have 12v power.  Boost relay may or may not work, inverter/charger may not work.
Also a couple cans of  PB Blaster and Contact cleaner.
Small portable air compressor?

Just a couple thoughts this morning as we ready for our second attempt to get home after a rollercoaster day yesterday.  ^.^d

Good Luck, I too love a challenge.

Justin
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 21, 2020, 09:44:50 am
Justin. We are taking a spare optima red top just for that. Also have a gas powered air compressor and generator. I would like to run the coach generator if possible and have brought filters and spare filters for it also. I have a cargo rack on the back of the truck and if needed I could run my gas generator 2500w on the very back. Tyrap a extension cord back to the coach. I'm so glad you resolved your own coach issues. Read your post with nothing to offer really bugged me. What a great example of community team work, both in skill and knowledge.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on June 21, 2020, 09:49:28 am
Sounds like a great project. As long as the asking price is good for you, anticipate a great coach.
Removing the cable covers is a great idea. Make sure to bring a 3M N100 mask and extra filters. If nice in there no telling what's up. Think viruses.
My guess is once clean fuel, a good electrical source, clean air, and fresh oil and that Cummins will start right up.
Good luck.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 21, 2020, 10:10:55 am
Yes on the N100 masks. Good luck buying them. Three months ago had 5 N95. Still have four unused left. Had to paint with sprayer house fascia trim and used one. Yes will be as safe as possible. Very good idea thou. Exciting or terrifying, I'll know on Saturday
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 21, 2020, 10:22:10 am
Center pan wire chase is in the top of the bays, runs from the engine to the front.
So would rodent access be from the ends or threw the basement via a open door?
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: craneman on June 21, 2020, 11:18:02 am
The ends are open enough even if the bay doors are closed. So far I have only encountered them in the wet bay when dry camping. They can get through my door seal somehow even with the bottom hatch closed.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Forewheelers on June 21, 2020, 11:25:52 am
I had mice come in one time around the port where the aquahot exhaust goes out. Caught all three in about twenty minutes. Put steel wool around the hole, use peppermint extract once a year, throw poison bars around in the barn where the coach is stored, keep a cat or two around. They don't have a chance..... Knock on wood.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: DavidS on June 21, 2020, 11:43:29 am
Once you install a battery to the house.. you can test the function of the 12v system.. then you will tell if there is a problem.. Dont forget the salesman switch or you might be chasing a problem that doesnt exist..

I think I would (me) .. start with the engine and see if it cranks (check all fluids first).. If it cranks .. put it in gear see if it tries to go forward then backwards... then go to the house sytem... try it then to the generator..

If engine is froze (doubt it) id move on... IF the 12v system has a problem.. find it.

Move on to the generator and then test the 120v on genny and Cord reel function... I think you are going to be surprised..(lol one way or the other) Good luck.. You have us on the edge of our keyboards.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 21, 2020, 11:46:42 am
I would think the aluminum wool would work similar without rust staining? That helps. Future mods for sure.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 21, 2020, 12:18:11 pm
This sounds odd but I'll be trying to disqualify my purchase from the start.
Corrosion first, Fast ten minute walk around, install window ac unit and start cooling coach inside, rodent damage fire hazard wire issues, water damage inside, hood rat vandalism, fuel issues Visual tank, taking camera (Thanks DavidS) , jumper cable to skip battery cable repairs for now (hood rats), water in oil, oil in antifreeze, initial walk around for obvious problems two hours. If good power up 12v. Change oil filter Properly prefilled  cut old one Open and visually check for contamination and metal. At that point if it's mostly clear I'll agree to purchase or run away. Forgot to mention this all has to be inspected and approved by Kim (DW) If she ain't happy we're done. She tolerates me so she is reasonable or convincible generally. It will be mildewing I'm sure and has been reported (Thank you Lynn)
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: oldguy on June 21, 2020, 12:50:59 pm
It would probably be antifreeze in the oil and with oil in the antifreeze it could be an engine oil cooler gone if there is one or
a head gasket. I would worry if the antifreeze has got in the bearings.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 21, 2020, 01:23:09 pm
Yes basically wrong fluid in places it doesn't belong water, oil, antifreeze, urine, hydrolic, transmission, window washer, etc
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 21, 2020, 01:23:35 pm
I would think the aluminum wool would work similar without rust staining?

Scott,

Use Stainless steel steel wool that you can get from any store in the kitchen department.

Mike
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 22, 2020, 11:48:45 pm
Taking some spare airbags. Made up tools just in case. Air bags tools. 1 1/8 and a 3/4 gearwrench 3 1/2 inch center to center.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 23, 2020, 12:03:59 am
Wheel torque wrench extension support jack
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: FourTravelers on June 23, 2020, 04:52:15 am
Where did you get the torque wrench and extension support?
I need to add these to my tool list. My torque wrench max out at 150lb.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 23, 2020, 08:54:19 am
Had the 600 ftlbs torque wrench for years. Made the jack on the 22nd. Extensions were purchased thru Amazon for under $28 Neiko 00236A 3/4" Drive Impact Extension Bar, Cr-Mo Steel | 3-Piece Set |... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VAQNPA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Would not recommend torque wrench. Just make up a four foot multiplier extension and carry your torque wrench
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 23, 2020, 09:12:52 am
Torque formula
If your desired torque was 450 ft lbs and your torque wrench was two feet long a four foot extension would give you 450lbs at wrench set to 150ft pounds
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: DavidS on June 23, 2020, 09:53:22 am
make sure you have the right grease for the brakes with you.. Not sure if it is readily available .. I have a couple tubes coming for mine ^.^d


Scott I have some extra parts if needed
Alternator
turbo
battery isolator
Thomas compressor 1/4hp model (I believe ,, its the bigger 12v one)
air conditioners (roof) I have about 5 of them new but the covers are possibly cracked and some have other issues that can be fixed but they are cheaper than new but damaged in shipping type deal..

If you think of anything needed post it up.. ^.^d
Pretty sure i have other stuff.. ^.^d
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 23, 2020, 10:27:12 am
Thanks DavidS yes I'm sure I will be contacting you. Was was going to lube chassis and monitor brakes . Taking a pyrometer with me. Will address brakes on condition as long as they are not dragging. Hopefully retarder will function. I'll get with you when I get back on ac cover repairs. I'm assuming nothing will work and hope I'm wrong. I believe by the end of the day I will have all spare parts in my possession that I'm taking.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 27, 2020, 10:21:47 pm
Well after months of delays and covid19 we made it back. Minimal corrosion. All an all great shape. Thanks to Lynn Sickler  and his wife and Chris Lang and his wife they were able to get a lot working. A lot left but i am able to be inside air conditioned lighted away from all. Those mosquitoes. Tomorrow hold a lot more to do. Air system, slide retraction and get the engine fuel problems resolved . So for just about everything is better than I ever imagined . Hopefully drive away on Monday for tires
Thank you all for everyone's help.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: craneman on June 27, 2020, 10:27:41 pm
Scott,
Glad everything is going your way, what is the fuel issue?
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 28, 2020, 10:41:59 am
I'm sure I have a air leak. Was up last night working inside. Mice like toilet flush valve wires. Worked  when finished. No water but can flush. Added 10 gallons water to tank.  Lost of cleaning. All in all real surprised with the condition.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Forewheelers on June 28, 2020, 01:31:15 pm
Well, yesterday was an interesting way for me to spend my birthday. The Sickels and the Langs caught up with Scott and son, Anthony as they were in the process of unloading supplies. The level of anticipation was just as high as the humidity. Nevada residents are okay with their dry heat but trying to work in Arkansas' 100% humidity in the middle of a farm plantation, took them to a new level.

Everyone viewed the prospective coach and gave it a pretty much, "thumbs up" , initial inspection. Bulkheads were the first item to go under scrutiny from coach owners, Sickel and Lang. Preliminary thoughts about bulkheads were positive due to the fact that it was shedded all its life, along with the suspicion that it had lived a "mostly southern" existence. Bulkheads received the expected passing grade.

Next came the engine compartment and generator compartment inspections. Both were in very clean condition. Big smiles appeared all around with the smooth hum of the generator, up front - after a bit of tweaking. Inspection of the engine compartment continued by some of the guys, while new batteries were installed. Desiccant was checked whiled others climbed atop the coach for a rooftop check.

Scott and Anthony have had about five months to formulate their restoration plan. From our perspective, they left very little to chance. Their truck was packed with parts, tools, wrench-turning experience and the confidence that they could resurrect this coach, should it prove worthy of their investment of time and money.

Atop the coach, Anthony fired up his battery operated blower in preparation for air conditioner unit inspections. Air conditioner covers were removed and colonies of dirt daubers were evicted. We were surprised by the lack of resident bird / mice nests - for a coach that had zero use in almost a decade. All looked good for an initial testing sequence, shortly to come.

In the meantime, the ground crew were brainstorming to figure out the best series of moves to begin engine cranking. Fuel tanks were checked by all of the guys and the tanks received a thumbs up, overall evaluation. Lots of time, suggestions, and equipment checks were continuing at the rear of the coach, in regard to the engine. Chris Lang and Anthony continued while Scott and Lynn decided to give the thermostats some attention, inside.

Generator humming nicely, Scott and Lynn clicked on the thermostat. More smiles everywhere. "We will sleep cool - and out of the mosquitoes, tonight!" Now, back to the engine......

The day was closing so the local coach owners headed home while Scott and Anthony continued until the mosquitoes drove them inside. Here are a few pictures from yesterday.

Marilyn Sickel




Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: folivier on June 28, 2020, 02:04:56 pm
Nice! love it when a well thought out plan goes well.
A sheepskin seat cover will fix that worn seat.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 28, 2020, 03:18:15 pm
So we are still attempting to get the engine to run on it's own. The primary filter was suspect but at this point it shows good flow with no air. The precleaner screen always is half full of air? I even pulled the filter back off (unrestricted flow) to prime and the primer pump would never suck the air from the top out. I even unbolted the entire unit and tried to purge By roatating it to help get the air out. Went to the bleed on the fuel injection pump and had surprising pressure and flow. Lots. But no fuel on the fuel rail test port. Further troubleshooting showed that there is no power to Fuel injection pump solenoid with ignition on. Looked in manuals and wiring diagrams but never found source for power. Hoping someone can lead me the right direction
But the Generator is purring away.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Chris m lang on June 28, 2020, 03:43:41 pm
Nice! love it when a well thought out plan goes well.
A sheepskin seat cover will fix that worn seat.
I don't  think it is wear I think it was mud!
Chris
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Forewheelers on June 28, 2020, 03:46:46 pm
Scott, you might need the advice of a local diesel mechanic but it sounds like the pump solenoid might not be engaging and not allowing any fuel flow.... Maybe.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Chris m lang on June 28, 2020, 03:46:56 pm
Scott you may have to start pulling wire covers in the bays looking for wire damage from mice
Chris
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 28, 2020, 03:50:19 pm
Further troubleshooting showed that there is no power to Fuel injection pump solenoid with ignition on. Looked in manuals and wiring diagrams but never found source for power. Hoping someone can lead me the right direction

Scott,

Check out these fuses Cummins M11 ECM Fuses (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=24498.msg191899#msg191899)

Mike
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Caflashbob on June 28, 2020, 04:16:55 pm
My shop bypassed the Winn system that was in our coach due to previous experiences with vacuum leak.  Looked like they were able to plug the existing hoses around the filter.

The fuel lines were bad also.  Sucking air.

Required filling the tank to make the pump on the motor lower than the tank fuel level.

In my area there is a charge for a commercial fuel truck to come out of $125 plus $3 a gallon for the fuel.

Nose up on the coach might allow a lower rear than the front enough to gravity fill the pump?

If the tank level is high enough to gravity fuel you will get a massive leak if you unplug and reroute around the filter.

Maybe bypass first.  Then fill tank?  Mine ran on the Cummins Dyno in la without the pump and filter.  Tank was full
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 28, 2020, 04:40:32 pm
So I checked the fuses and all were good and powered up with ignition on. Thought we were on a good track. Yes these filters can be problematic but I actually I'm pretty sure I'm not getting fuel into injection pump. No power to fuel solenoid on injection pump. No smoke during crank. With solenoid jumped I am getting tailpipe smoke for the first time. Fuel is probably 2008. Looks clear and smells correct. So if I can determine were fuel Power to solenoid come from I'll search that way. Yes I'll change down the road. Just would like to run what I brung at this point. It's really nice here but going home sounds good.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 28, 2020, 04:43:05 pm
I actually have everything to bypass, but the fuel flow and pressure is quite robust at the pump inlet on engine
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: rbark on June 28, 2020, 04:45:15 pm
Scott, don't worry about the prescreen filter just yet. I have the same system and ''tis never full, but you can see the fuel flowing thru it.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 28, 2020, 05:24:40 pm
So it is displaying three fault codes ID FM CNT 111 02  55
ID FM CNT 190 10  1
ID FM CNT 654  5    2
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: folivier on June 28, 2020, 05:26:32 pm
Maybe the fuel shutoff solenoid is stuck or not working?
Can you try putting power to it?
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 28, 2020, 05:37:51 pm
Yes I tried powering it up. You can hear the fuel solenoid click, smoke in exhaust but no start
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: folivier on June 28, 2020, 07:23:47 pm
Sounds like it's getting fuel but is it getting air?  Pull the air filter and check it.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 28, 2020, 07:33:27 pm
With the 190 code check the cam sensor to see if it has come unplugged. It is hid under the air compressor. If it is oil soaked both primary and secondary may be dead and the ECM isn't getting the permissive to open the fuel shut off valve.  This can drop the 111 code for the ECM.

Mike
Here is what you are looking for
https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22487.0;attach=26515;image
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 28, 2020, 10:58:33 pm
So long day. Fooled around with filter till I was sure no leaks. Ended up calling the local truck repair shop that I had also talked to about tires. They have been real nice . While talking to him he told me his rates $80 to show up and 90 hr one hour minimum. He pulled up the ECM fault 111 and the 190. Said that the no start is the 190. I had brought a spare sensor so I put it in. Cleared codes. Would not start. Put pressure gauge on rail fitting and hotwired and it produced pressure. No new faults. Still saying crank shaft position sensor. More research on that. I had spoke to a old friend and he mentioned several ECM failures due to long term storage. He said lithium battery needed to be operated every couple of years or they loose programming. Aske the rv tech Bubba and he said he had never heard of it, but he may have a old ECM off a blown up engine. Twenty minutes later he was back ecm in hand. Handed it to me and said he had to go and to tell him how it worked out. A miserable hour later hit the start button and it came to life and purred like a kitten for a minute and shut down. Repeats every thirty seconds with stop engine displayed, engine fault, engine require service light illuminated. No codes displayed. Not the correct ecm, but it runs. Will order a correct ecm Monday among other things. At least the fuel filter is proven okay. Dryer And service port tomorrow and hopefully get it off the bump stops
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 28, 2020, 11:11:43 pm
One other small  Important lesson today. When you have completed a ecm change and your exhausted remember to close the engine cover before you take a break. Mosquitoes
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Johnstons on June 29, 2020, 12:04:46 am
Seems like the low coolant is a 30 second shutdown on the old 300 Cummins U295 we had.  It kept starting and shutting down until I figured that out.  It was barely low. 

Are there two cam sensors on an M11?
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Caflashbob on June 29, 2020, 12:14:42 am
Yes but in one housing.  Later units were one piece units.  No pot material.  Solid metal front.  No oil soaking
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 29, 2020, 12:27:00 am
Is there another crank position sensor other than the cam sensor below the ac compressor
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Caflashbob on June 29, 2020, 12:42:45 am
On an ism i understand there may be a separate one on the crank?
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Forewheelers on June 29, 2020, 06:15:00 am
Scott, it could be a tiny bit low of coolant in the reservoir tank. Make sure it's up to the low level in the overflow tank also...
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 29, 2020, 07:06:37 am
. Will order a correct ecm Monday among other things.

Scott,

Before you buy an ECM and start throwing parts at it give ECM King - Heavy Duty Truck ECM Rebuilders & Remanufacturers (http://www.ecmking.com/) a call. ECM  King is well know around here. Frank or Jeff (one is the owner the other is the head tech. don't remember which is which) are well versed in repair and can fix you up.

Mike
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Rudy on June 29, 2020, 09:14:15 am
Scott,  ECM King will diagnose your ECM for free, you would only be out the shipping.  They will give you the straight info on your situation.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: juicesqueezer on June 29, 2020, 11:54:12 am
I just had the craziest thought. May be he put fuel stabilizer in it? Nah my luck couldn't be that good. Very excited to get back there. Yes the little varmints can do a lot of damage. We rarely have problems with small varmints. Usually just rabbits. But I've had to relocate three mice a day for the last 3 weeks. No cat here would eat all the lizards. Also been averaging one Antelope chipmunk a day. It will probably need a slide bladder also. Aluminum tape and foam tubing to get home 10K in repairs I WISH. I'll dream thou
 Think that year slide has to be removed. Yes what a exciting summer. Thank you Mr Sickel  and Mr Lang! It takes a Community to raise a child or move a nearly abandoned foretravel. Thank you everyone

Scott, you will never meet two more nicer people that are always willing to help one out!  Our best to you on your new to you purchase!
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 29, 2020, 10:24:05 pm
Finally alive. So with a borrowed ecm Bubba stopped by and reran codes with engine running and sure enough a bad coolant level sensor. He had one on the same blown up engine the ecm came from and Problem solved. I'll pick up a coolant sensor and return the borrowed one. Also will give ECM King a call in the morning. Can run up to Cummins in Memphis as a secondary plan. Called Foretravel and they told me they just order from Cummins also and just use there programming nothing special. Installed rebuilt dryer today and was unable to power up HWH. On second press of button the no parking brake light dimly flashes. Suspect mice at pressure switch wiring. Air charges well and goes to 110 psi. After a hour was down to 85 psi. Not great but workable for now. Long days, good fun, great people helping Out. Bubba at Maryville and Sons Diesel repair have really helped and so far has way undercharged. All in all it's been exciting. Hopefully will get to raise coach to allow stands and further work. Lots of bizarre back stories to follow, most are good. Rudy, Mike thanks for the much needed advise. Tire are ready Tuesday if I was. Generator starting on a single red top Optima.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 29, 2020, 11:41:12 pm
Ecm king at
6421 FM 646 South
Santa Fe, TX 77510
This sound correct? Thank you Mike and Rudy
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 30, 2020, 07:24:18 am
Ecm king at
6421 FM 646 South
Santa Fe, TX 77510
This sound correct?

Yes that is where they are located

After running on borrowed ECM did you swap back to the other one to check it as it may have been the coolant sensor all along?

Mike
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 30, 2020, 01:47:35 pm
So the saga continues. Still unable to get HWH to power up. Cannot go into ride height mode either. Parking brake light illuminated with being set. Ignition on or engine running. 110 PSI displayed both tanks. C/B passes power. In equipment power bay. When you press the air button (brakes set, engine idle) nothing but bulb test 4 red, 4 amber illuminated. Second press still no light but the parking brake not set light dimly flashes center of panel. Air bags have never aired up under any combination. Power relay into HWH box has power but relay never closes. Parking brake released no change any ideas. On a good note title paperwork has been resolved and finished.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Pamela & Mike on June 30, 2020, 03:42:19 pm
) nothing but bulb test 4 red, 4 amber illuminated.

Scott,

Sounds like either you have a bad ground to the microprocessor or you have a fault in the microprocessor.  If the later you will have to send the box back to HWH for repair.  You can still go by just jump +12VDC to the grey  wire that feeds the front travel solenoids and grey wire that feeds the rear travel solenoids  in the control box. (at least they use to be grey) You will have to remove the 2 cables to be able to get to the pins on the cables with your jumpers.  Doing this will supply air to the ride height valves and you are good to go.

Mike

Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 30, 2020, 04:27:54 pm
So are they located in the HWH panel in the storage bay overhead? A link to a HWH print sure would be nice. I thought I had them before I left but now am unable to find them. Also no position lights in the position led box
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Dave and Nancy Abel on June 30, 2020, 05:07:29 pm
So are they located in the HWH panel in the storage bay overhead? A link to a HWH print sure would be nice. I thought I had them before I left but now am unable to find them. Also no position lights in the position led box
Scott
Maybe this will help:
Good luck, Dave A
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 30, 2020, 05:08:11 pm
So inside the HWH box were all the fuses and lights are there are three blue 15 amp fuses next to the Red 6100,6110 Wires /connector and the center fuse is blown.I think That's my problem if I knew were it is chewed and shorted. Or goes too
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 30, 2020, 05:10:16 pm
Thank you Dave!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 30, 2020, 07:08:20 pm
Dave the link is for the 800 series, and mine is the 860. They are different but it got me going in a good direction. If I can get the 860 link I can figure this out. The fuse that blows is F2 Ignition. May have a easy temporary work around to allow lifting the coach. This control box connection diagram was inside the cover.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 30, 2020, 07:43:45 pm
Neutral lockout not active. Will shift to drive or reverse
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on June 30, 2020, 09:29:29 pm
Mike the 680 has the same wire numbers but all wire is black. The pin connection is very small. So I disconnected the Front ,rear, parking valve,And basically all the connectors not directly on the circuit board and it still pops the fuse. Only things left would be all the slide position, lock, unlock sensors if it still pops I'm going to power up 1700 and 3700 for ride height solenoids. I'll have to figure out what size fuse to protect them from damage. I wonder if I could also do the same with the raise circuit so as I can block up to inspect and lube? Still haven't been able to find a wiring diagram for the 680 HWH
Thanks for the great direction.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: master2301 on July 01, 2020, 12:00:29 am
Scott

Found this website in HWH. It has many variables to diagrams. You need to search for your specific one. Good luck.

HWH System Diagrams for Featherlite Manufacturing, Inc. (https://www.hwhcorp.com/featherlitediagrams3.html)

Later found this one now looks correct, says Foretravel

HWH System Diagrams for Foretravel (http://www.hwhcorp.com/foretraveldiagrams3.html)

Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Pamela & Mike on July 01, 2020, 07:31:05 am
1. I'm going to power up 1700 and 3700 for ride height solenoids. I'll have to figure out what size fuse to protect them from damage.
2. I wonder if I could also do the same with the raise circuit so as I can block up to inspect and lube?

1. I have used a 10 amp fuse rather than the 7-1/2 as it was available.
2. Yes
I wasn't sure on the numbers for the wires as the 1700 and 3700 were for the older coaches without slides.

Mike
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 02, 2020, 12:49:37 am
So we hot wired both the travel and raise modes. Worked out well . In raise was able to put safety blocks in. Changed oil filter, antifreeze filter , lubed. Driveline and front axle. Inspected brakes and rotors. Took off blocks and put back into drive mode. So still no power to slide. Put vacuumed pump on bladder no deflation noted, bad seal. Jumped retract and unlock solenoids and ran pump and slide moved to the stowed position. Then operated lock and pump to set locks. No problem. Taped outside of gap with aluminum tape. Can stay on for weeks and will not hurt jelcoat or paint. Installed new wiper blades and we made 60 miles to the Sickels house. They were kind enough or just felt pity enough to let us stay. Really made for a wonderful end of a long days. Thank you so much. They have some of the largest mosquitoes if ever seen. It nice being out of beautiful Helena. Just 1470 miles to get home. Tires tomorrow in 30 miles.what a great adventure. Thank you Mike . Also will send Ecm to ecm King next week. Bubba loaned me the one we are using. Not the correct p/n but blessed by Cummins
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Forewheelers on July 02, 2020, 01:18:06 am
The Sickels are an hour and a half from Helena. I can hardly believe 17 year old tires made the trip. The coach has been rescued.notice the new owner inside the bay, checking out the Aqua Hot system.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 02, 2020, 12:55:01 pm
Got tires. 2005 date codes are gone. While tires were off noticed the right rear outboard pad was much thinner than everything else. Suspect dragging. Running hotter than the others. Need to figure out pad part number and purchase a spare pad to at least carry home with me. If any one knows number please let me know. Are these available thou Napa? Were do I purchase
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: wolfe10 on July 02, 2020, 01:03:40 pm
When changing pads/servicing the brakes, be sure to have the supplemental springs added/installed.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Pamela & Mike on July 02, 2020, 01:03:57 pm
Scott,

The only pads I have ever seen come in sets.
Kit 15625 PM

helper return springs
kit 15018

A NAPA truck store for sure can get them or off the net.

Mike
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: wolfe10 on July 02, 2020, 01:04:53 pm
Yes, all pads on an axle replaced at the same time!
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 02, 2020, 01:06:19 pm
Thank you
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Tim Fiedler on July 02, 2020, 01:39:36 pm
Caused by sticking slide pins.
Keep them cleaned and lubed

Brake hard at slow speeds when you get started each day with retarder off to excersize fully.
Helper springs good

Note special grease for FT brakes!!!!!!! Carry thermal laser temp gauge from harbor freight. Easy to check brake and tire temps at your stops
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on July 02, 2020, 01:43:44 pm
Caused by sticking slide pins.
Keep them cleaned and lubed
I always heard it's better to keep them cleaned and dry (no lube).  But I'm no expert.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Pamela & Mike on July 02, 2020, 02:29:23 pm
Here is what the expert has to say about slide pins.
https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=1701

Page 42

Mike
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: craneman on July 02, 2020, 03:35:51 pm
Here is what the expert has to say about slide pins.
https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=1701

Page 42

Mike
Page 40 18a lube pin with WD-40 or CRC
never found this info always was told pin must be dry.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Caflashbob on July 02, 2020, 03:48:56 pm
Dry only.  Dry silicone?
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Pamela & Mike on July 02, 2020, 04:12:02 pm
Cman,

In my hard copy that info is on page 42 not 40 but you found it. I need to go page by page and see where the difference in page numbers is.

Mike
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on July 02, 2020, 04:18:53 pm
I was going by what MOT did when they installed all new pins in all the calipers on our coach.  The pins went in dry.  With Keith Risch watching.

I'm always learning new stuff from this Forum!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 02, 2020, 08:25:59 pm
So I did spray with wd40 and exercised a bunch. Was able to prove to my self they are not dragging. Last stop were We are, all discs were at 119 deg F. Have had my son walk next to them leaving first several times and listen for dragging you could hear prior but good now. Prior that disc was running 250 deg. And yes very light braking. The one pad is not metal to metal and there should be ample for a crisis stop. Retarder works great. Have ordered a set of pads to pick up tomorrow if needed. . So loaner Ecm is speed limited to 65 mph but the speedometer reads 15 mph faster than your going. We will be speed limited to 49 mph for the next 1400 miles. Probably the best fuel economy I'll ever see. Toyo 177 installed and they ride good. Brakes and what ever it needs once we get home. It needs a bath badly. Actually it needs a lot badly. So far I'm 100% glad we took on the challenge. Coach has 51k miles. Thanks for all the brake info and help. Sorry I've been slow to respond .
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 02, 2020, 08:36:32 pm
Also we did reinstall old ecm and it was still no start. Put loaner back in.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 02, 2020, 08:52:45 pm
Long day
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Travelin' Man (RIP) on July 02, 2020, 09:01:34 pm
Lookin' good!  Hope there's not a reefer next to you and you'll get some sleep.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Forewheelers on July 02, 2020, 09:30:47 pm
Scott, looks like you blew some of the dust off. If we had thought, we could have washed it at the farm. How far did you make it....looks like you may be still in Arkansas. Have a safe trip.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 04, 2020, 01:54:31 am
Lubbock no issues. 49 mph on GPS . Long days ahead. 4th is a day off with family. Happy forth
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 05, 2020, 04:55:38 pm
Dropped pin
Near 66 NM-344, Edgewood, NM 87015
Google Maps (https://maps.app.goo.gl/oXmj6EsCBXXeoeLS9)
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 05, 2020, 10:54:50 pm
See my real-time location on Maps: Google Maps (https://maps.app.goo.gl/o9mV3HCPQuUBGRWy7)
Abs fail light illuminated.  All is good 49mph
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 05, 2020, 11:18:46 pm
Almost home
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 06, 2020, 05:51:13 pm
Thanks for all the support. We made it home about a hour ago and dumped and rinsed tanks first thing. Fuel sender will need replacement,  never got into six gear once. Too slow. Abs needs troubleshooting, brakes repaired. Ecm repaired then I can get to everything else. Was quite the adventure and lots of long hours. The radar posting your speed 49 mph was depressing.  The start of the next stage.
Scott
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Johnstons on July 06, 2020, 05:57:17 pm
I just bought an old fire truck on eBay in March and flew to Northern California to drive it back.  8V72 and it was geared so low top speed was 50 with that Detroit screaming.    That's pretty slow going across Arizona, New Mexico and west Texas.  Pierce was my mentor on that because I knew he was familiar with those old pumpers. 

You are going to love that coach and this fellowship.
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Forewheelers on July 06, 2020, 06:03:52 pm
Just curious Scott, was it worth it?
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: dsd on July 06, 2020, 06:52:23 pm
Knowing what I know today if I didn't own a 320 I would go to Arkansas deal with crazy situations, meet great peaple tomarrow. Thank goodness this chapter is behind us. So yes absolutely even if the owner had followed thru with the Sheriff to have us thrown off the property like he threatened crazy individual yes well worth it. Well worth repeating. If nothing else great stories
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Caflashbob on July 06, 2020, 07:39:13 pm
An adventure
Title: Re: Wanted dead or alive
Post by: Chris m lang on July 06, 2020, 08:10:21 pm
Well Scott, I'm sure of a couple of things
1 you are glad to be home
2 Helena Arkansas is not at the top of your bucket list for repeat visit (It's not on my bucket list and I live 1-1/2 hr away)
Glad you made it home safely
Just sayin
Chris