I am currently working on the final setup for my dash in bluefire. Would love to hear from everyone that has any experience utilizing this system. So far it seems to do as I expected it to. There are a few things that are not monitored as the ECM doesn't have data for. Just did another update to my previous dash program. Still working the bugs out of it, now just need to get the map page up and running. Just reloaded the software on another newer IPad due to the old one being very old and slow. Of course I have revamped my gauge panel as well.
I have both the VMSPC and BlueFire. Both are very good but VMSPC wasn't able to deal with some bad data packets coming from my ECM. SilverLeaf tech support is good as well, but they told me that the data issue needed to be resolved on my side. There was nothing they could do about it. Mark at Bluefire said "I've got some ideas that might help the software deal with the bad data." He also agreed to let me return the product if he wasn't able to solve it, regardless of the 30 day standard no-questions warranty period. A few days later I was beta testing possible solutions and eventually he was able to solve it. That coding is now included in his public release software. He's been very good about continuous improvements, constantly issuing new beta versions and frequently publishing new production versions. VMSPC seems less focused on the software development side, and I think their application and interface is becoming a little dated. I would have been happy with either but Bluefire has won me over. I think you'll like it.
By the way, version 4.0 of Bluefire was just released a few days ago for Windows, Android & iOS if you haven't already seen it, with a brand new 1st edition MacOS version coming very soon.
Wireless to my iPad. Fantastic. Much easier to use my Ram mount on the window shade pillar next to my drivers window shade. Low out of my direct sight. Thank you for the info
Looks really promising so far and thanks for the above information. I went to their site but can't seem to find any information there or on their forum if it works on Detroit DDEC engines. Anyone help here?
Looks like someone has finally made it work on Androids, iPads and now Macs. We are all Apple products with the exception of our Galaxy Tab S and Tab S2 tablets. As much as I like the iPads, the Tab S, S2 kick the iPad in the head and less expensive too. I just threw this in for those who might be purchasing their Bluetooth adapter but don't have a tablet yet.
Pierce
It's all about the protocol that the data bus sends out J1708...etc.....Tablet or Ipad just visualizes that data
Here are more photos of the finished setups for the old gal. Really pleased with how it's turned out.
Looks really good. Nice job! I understand you can email the template to other owners once you design yours? I see they are going to offer a Mac version soon.
Pierce
That's correct you can share your custom dashes
It does take a little time to learn what your coach has to monitor but once you get the hang of it all it's pretty easy.
You will only be able to monitor what your ECM allows you to monitor and some do not have all the systems monitored
I'm impressed. That is a nice setup.
Plus, it is wireless bluetooth to Android, Apple, Windows 10 and soon, Macs. Free app also with demo mode. Buy adapter at Amazon. See all information at: BlueFire LLC (https://bluefire-llc.com/website)
Could trade templates like baseball cards. :))
Pierce
Sorry for the lack of knowledge on this. I've only seen the Silverleaf system one time, and it was not live, just a demo on youtube or something.
What are the pros/cons vs the Silverleaf?
Does one provide more info?
Pricing differences?
Easy of install?
Are there standard applications for a Foretravel, Plug and Play?
We have Apple and PC, and ipads
Thanks, Paul
Both receive the exact same data from your databus. I don't think there's anything that one measures that the other does not.
I used the Silverleaf for years and have now been using Bluefire for about a year. In my opinion, the only advantage to the Silverleaf VMSPC is that it provides estimated horsepower and torque values. These are not measured directly but are calculated from the available data, such as RPM, boost, fuel rate or whatever it needs for the calculations. The calculations are specific to your engine by applying an engine data file. It's a nice feature but I found that I didn't use it much. Others will say they can't live without it.
The Bluefire is much easier to install. Simply plug the device into your diagnostics port under the dash. No other wiring required. Other big advantages are bluetooth connectivity to your device, support for more devices (Apple) and what I think is a better software interface. It is also about 1/2 the price of VMSPC.
I'll be selling my VMSPC and keeping the Bluefire.
I understand now the new version as of yesterday now will do Detroit diesel.
Thank you, Looks like this is the way to go for us. It appears easy and I don't care about HP and Torque calculations. Now I need to see how to purchase. Thanks Again.
Paul
Love that ipad mount you are using, is this a RAM Mount, or other?
Mark...can you share that template ...?? I downloaded a custom dash from Bluefire and thought it was yours. Looks like your current one will fit my needs better.
Thx
Hans
if purchasing direct from Bluefire use AMAZON in discount code to receive 19 dollars off the price
Scott
Send me an email and I will send you a copy of my dash setup
Yes it's a ram mount
As an aside to this when we would set up the rallye cars years ago back home we would turn all the gauges so that when everything was operating normally all the needles pointed straight up. Looked weird at first. All one had to do was glance at the gauges to see if all was well.
Keith
Same as an F18 cockpit I sat in
I looked at Bob Rozens electronic dash he installed in his 97 U320 coach closely when I bought his complete dash set a few years ago. I agree with roger that it required/enticed you to look down too much.
I really appreciate the thought that Foretravel put into the stock gauge placement in the dash on our 97. The top row can be viewed with either a quick direct view or adverted vision.
That being said the VPMS shows enough detail to help troubleshoot engine conditions.
Dash temp gauge shows high at 180 on VPMS. It shows almost 190.
At 210 they agree.
I had a electrical line to the toad come loose and that ran down the cars battery after 6 hours of driving.
Hooked up the wire again and the engine battery volts went up .2 volts as did the javalena dash oem gauge.
Meant that the cars battery was being charged back up to me.
After 2 hours the voltages dropped back the .2 volts.
The combiner helps as both banks are locked together when either is being charged.
The various battery gauges we have show that the replaced non adjustable LN alternator is overcharging all of our batteries in hot weather from .2 to .5 volts versus turn off the engine after a long run and have the gen on to run air conditioning and the inverter panel shows a much lower float voltage than the alternator was putting out.
I may swap out the new non adjustable alternator for the recently rebuilt LN same unit but with the adjustable voltage regulator set .2 volts lower than the non adjustable one is.
If I had a sense wire alternator and regular batteries versus lithium I might take off the sense wire in the summer.
Roger make a good point. Round gauges take up and waste a lot of space. Horizontal or vertical orientation give the most information in a limited space. I think Bluefire may also be able to do horizontal and vertical displays.
I fly with an engine analyzer all the time. I like a display that not only has the colors displayed but also a digital number to go with the graph. The number changes color as the temperature, etc goes beyond a user programmed limit. I have quite high compression so on a hot day, have to watch the cylinder head temps like a hawk and limit my rate of climb.
Below are two photos of the analyzer in action. You can get ideas on just what to include in your setup. This is all on a very small footprint.
Another factor is the operating system. Mac or Android owners may not want to purchase a Windows product if they have an existing product that will fill the bill.
Pierce
Like the plane dash. I did not like digital displays as the extra split second it took to translate the digits into meaningful things were delayed. Plus was hard to show rate of change. Your color change and the bars look to have addressed that issue. The long ago F18 live cockpit I sat in had round gauges with the needles vertical if nominal. Green lit? Red needles?
Bob,
When a white digit starts flashing red, no matter where you are looking, you notice it. :D Yes, the bars are excellent. The oil temp is even red to start with cold oil. #40 in the winter could possibly shear the oil pump shaft. Sorry the close up was not clearer.
You may have noticed that I was about 150 rpm over redline. New Lycon engine that dynoed at 205 hp. 163 mph true is a record for the Grumman Traveler. Fixed gear and stock muffler. Can't do that long or the CHT goes over 450 degrees.
P
Bluefire does it all, gauges can be oriented needles up or how ever you want I am a gauge person but like to have bar graph/text gauges as well, again all can be done in Bluefire. I decided to go this way because I had two very nice iPads that were not being utilized, I also downloaded the VMSpec and played with it on my Windows based tablet but decided I didn't want the big screen on the dash. Again I think both are very nice setups and I do not have a dog in the hunt to sell, make commissions etc just providing information for anyone that wants to see my experience with Bluefire. And this is a forum for all of us that own these magnificent coaches to learn, get info etc
My earlier post got removed by accident.
The round gauges on the Blue Fire display do not appear to be able to rotate. Maybe they do, I didn't see how to do it. It would be interesting to see them all pointing up as normal. No gauges show rate of change of the readings on Blue Fire as far as I can tell. VMSpc has a moving value gauge that will show any values you want over of a period of time. For example you could see what coolant temp has done over the past few minutes.
I hope BlueFire users report back on how well it works.
I have helped users install more than 60 VMSpc systems on FTs and a few SOBs now. Feedback from users helps adapt and create new displays. I have done beta testing on Silverleaf's next version which will have round gauges and concluded the the screen space used by a round gauge compared to the information you get is high. The same is true for tire pressure monitoring displays.
I have always thought that detail numbers are not critical under most conditions. It makes no difference if your coolant temp is 178° or 184° as long as it is in a range that you decide is normal for your engine. When it moves outside of that normal range you want to be alerted to it and adjust your driving to adapt ... use a lower gear, lower engine load, increase RPMs. Taking your eyes off the road to try to read specific numbers on several gauges or where arrows are pointing takes too much time from the critical task of paying attention to the road. And this applies to the existing FT gauge display, a VMSpc display Or a Blue Fire display.
Most of my displays include a cluster of critical gauges that have big numbers and big indicator lights. It is very easy to see with just a glance that all are in the green range and you are good to go. The reason to have a more comprehensive data display is to help to you be a better driver and operator and to do it in a way that doesn't detract from your safety.
VMSpc displays can be exchanged between users. The same with Parameter files which contain customizable gauge range limits, labels and abbreviations.
Blue Fire hardware appears to be cheaper from some sources than the Silverleaf VMSpc hardware and cables. All of my kits from the simplest DIY kit to the most advanced performance kits come with ready to use displays, instructions for installation, use, and display modification or development. The kits all come with an installation supply package. And they all come with lifetime support from me either by phone, email, text or remote access for direct support.
You can get an adequate Windows 10 PC for just over $100. Some have had good luck with these. They have very limited memory, storage and warranty but for the price they are almost a disposable. Better quality PC tablets are under $200. And there are several good quality 2 in 1 PC laptop/tablets for about $300. Almost every kit buyer uses the PCs that come with the kits as a dedicated device for VMSpc.
AnyVMSpc screen can be displayed in any iPad or android tablet used as a remote display, just a bit more complicated for many.
No matter which way you choose, the goal of these systems is to gather and display more information to help you be a better driver and operator in a safe way.
I tested the screen thrower program that can send my notebooks screen to my iPad and the notebook can be set to stay on with the lid closed. $5 program?
I'm perfectly happy with my all digital vmsPC layout. Totally my own design. The gauges closest to the driver are my most monitored.
Roger, all the gauges are able to be rotated in any way you see fit, as well as setting up warning/danger alarms as well as recording your very own audible alarms. I like that I can have not only text gauges but dial gauges as well and any mix and match of the above as well. I did a very detailed testing of each of the two monitoring software packages and decided to go with the Bluefire because of the versatility for my particular needs and wants, and I had two nice iPads that I wanted to use as well. I did like the VMSpec as well just decided to go with the Bluefire. Again the analog dial type gauges were my big requirement because of operating off road race cars for years and that's how my brain likes to see things, as well as idiot lights to keep me on my toes when it comes to problems. I think they are both equally well suited and each has its great points and drawbacks as well. It's great that we can get on here and see things get info from some amazing knowledgeable people like yourself and be able to make great educated decisions.
More tweaks to my dash layout
Does the software have bar graph capability?
I had round gauges but on most tracks, there was no time to spend on gauges as there was way too much traffic. Check the videos for one of my favorite tracks, Saugus Speedway in SoCal. Always an inverted start that invites chaos and one yellow flag after another.
Pierce
If you're talking about the gauges, yes, most if not all round gauges can be changed to bar gauges. The software calls them linear gauges.
If your talking about histogram gauges to plot values over time, I don't think it does that without some additional processing. It does track data logs and it let's you choose which which parameters to log. I think you could use the data in those logs to plot bar graphs, but I haven't done that.
There's a forum with a growing community of people that have built lots of custom dashboards and posted them for other's to use. You might find some examples there.