Involved in an accident yesterday 1,000 miles from home, resulting in significant damage.
Police had our new-to-us (48 hours!) '98 U295 towed to an impound lot. We're in a hotel room now in Little Rock, trying to figure out what to do next. Towing insurance (Allstate Motor Club) will want to tow it from the impound lot to the nearest repair facility. Any suggestions on convincing them it needs to go back to Nacogdoches (300 miles)? Pictures are here: Keyes Foretravel Accident - Google Photos (https://photos.app.goo.gl/JeBvJAwpa8EWzkNV7)
Thanks.
I'd pay the difference in towing and have it back to FT since your only 300 miles away. My insurance is good for a 100 miles. Let me guess the pig pen car was at fault!
Might be an opertunity for headlight conversion paid by insurance. Someone on the forum had that done.
Call XTreme and get their input. Send them pictures
Take it to Xtreme Paint and Graphics in Nacogdoches. You are not that far away.
(936) 560-5888
Sorry for your trauma. It can be fixed.
I agree with Tim & R&S, Call Xtreme and send them the link to pictures.
Is there a reason it could not be taped up and driven back to Naco slow?
How was it towed to lot?
I would NOT move it any further than needed until you determine that it will not be totaled.
Indeed, send detailed pictures to both Xtreme and Foretravel to get an idea of that your options are. Hopefully, you will get answers before the insurance company gets too involved. If possible, you want for you to have the options, not the insurance company.
Agree with turbojack. (also with Brett) That looks drivable to me unless any of the drivetrain was damaged. If you have access to it start it and see if you can turn the steering wheel lock to lock. Slowly while watching for rub.
If unable to drive find a shop that can repair enough to make it drivable then head to Nac.
Good luck! Sorry this happened to you. I have a long story about being broke down in Little Rock. If we meet up somewhere down the road I'll tell you. :)
see ya
ken
Have contacted Xtreme, sent them link to photos as well as our towing insurance plan. They were very helpful.
Yes, I don't want to move it until the insurance adjuster gets here, and when he does I want to be able to provide him with estimates from Xtreme.
As far as driving it down to Nac, here are our concerns. Driver-side headlights are completely gone. Drive-side mirror gone. Generator side compartment door gone. Genny inoperable so no A/C during these 90+ degree days. Front-end fiberglass cap separated from side wall, and pulled away from windshield. I don't think the tires rub anywhere but, how do I know if there was damage to the steering or suspension that I can't see? If I start driving and then discover a problem, then things have gone from bad to worse (and it's not going to happen in a good place either).
Important. Assemble all the facts you can.
Foretravel is not constructed like most other coaches therefore needs specialist knowledge and parts to repair.
Cost of flatbed to Nacogdoches. I would not tow it wheels down that far.
Cost of repair at Nacogdoches vs local. If local is less don't show to insurance company
Make it clear that you want the coach to go to Nacogdoches. Let them know it will end up costing them more in time and aggravation (money) if they argue with you.
Call State Insurance Dept where you are and where the coach is insured (your full time domicile) to see what your rights are in law. Remember an informed consumer is not what insurance companys like.
Be nice to adjuster. Find out how much he knows about Foretravels. Have him call the factory in your presence if he has questions you can't answer. I would call them first to give them a heads up. He may use your opinion and knowledge in his determination.
Save the PIA attitude for the insurance company. Let them know subtly that you post on the internet.
Good luck.
Keith
Just a heads up. I understand RV fog doctor in Searcy also does fiberglass and body work. With that being said the only work we have ever had done was at Xtreme.
My 1996 U295 36foot insurance books for $41,700 according to Nationwide
Well sorry to hear about it. From the pictures it doesn't look like it wouldn't be drivable. I would use a couple rolls of 200 mph tape other notwise known as duct tape and tape everything up really good and drive it to nacogdoches. But of course the insurance adjuster may have something to say about that. Never had an insurance claim on my coach but I have had one on a sailboat. They sent a really nice guy who's only experienced was with cars. He knew nothing about boats I had a cheap insurance company because I was in the middle of doing work I was going to switch to a better company after I was finished in a year or so. That was my first mistake. My second mistake was listening to the company that was at the marina that started doing work without authorization from me or the insurance company. In the end it was a total loss and I had to give it up otherwise I'd be out sailing in the golf right now heading to Panama.
Good luck and I hope it works out okay for you guys.
Not fond of Little Rock either.
You are not far from the Fog Doctor and I know they gave us great service. I would give them a call and see what they can do for you! Sorry this happened to you.
You need to see if they will total it first. It is going to be close I think with the damage that you showed. I would only go to xtreme so get a quote from them and how to get it there if you can rig a mirror and attach the cap a bit. But if there is steering issues get it flat bed trailered. You are close enough to where the best place to fix these coaches are located.
Just found out that RV Fog Dr may be able to do this work. Has anyone had body work done by them? I'm asking because it would be far easier to get the coach to them than down to Nac.
Yes. Hire a lawyer to represent you. You can be certain that Allstate will have a lawyer advising their claims adjuster. Now that you need to make a claim on your insurance, and it will be a complicated claim to be sure, the insurance company and its representatives are not your friend. Legal representation will be money well spent.
Most likely putting it on a flatbed trailer would put you over the 13 foot 6 inch height limit.
....you mean 14' height limit
Drop hitch lowboy should be legal.
I would only use a qualified Foretravel repair facility. You will look back and wished you had. Most of these places unfamiliar seem to over promise and underperformed.
I was rear-ended on I 20 in Georgia about 9 months ago by 18 wheeler.
With minimal work I drove my coach to Foretravel before talking with insurance company
(Easier to get forgiveness than permission)
I had no plans for anyone else to do repair, so when they called I told them where the coach was and they could send an adjuster to view it.
I told them I wanted it repaired by the factory. They were more than willing to accept FTs estimate and pay my travel expenses.
First thing is to get checked out if anyone was thrown around.
I hope you the very best with these negotiations.
Jerry
They said over on Facebook it was indeed that messy Infinity that hit them and was piloted by a gang member fleeing the police and tossing drugs and a gun out the window.
Sadly we learned the "gang member" was only 20 year old. It's very sad that this is his life and prayers that he can one day turn it around.
Not likely
Do you have a tow car and away to get around?. Will try to get you some help if not.
If you determine you are able to drive versus tow and you can rig a mirror you can secure the gelcoat by drilling holes along both sides of torn gelcoat and stitch together using tie wraps in place of some of the duct tape.
Tony
Guys,
I am a little concerned about us offering advice on it is "safe to drive" based on the few pictures we have.
Better to get advice from someone knowledgeable with first hand information.
Well said Brett. I imagine most folks would mean AFTER a safety inspection. Then it might offer them a means to have the proper folks do a fix.
Thankfully the toad survived and we do have that with us. Thank you for your offer.
Yes we have a towed Jeep Grand Cherokee that fortunately did not get damaged. On a side note though, the only reason we were on that road where we got hit is that we had just experienced, I mean 2 minutes before, the infamous death-wobble with the towed jeep. First time towing, and in fact just had the tow bar and air brakes installed at M&G that same morning!
I'm an agent for another major company. The adjuster won't have a clue what he or she is looking at. NADA is meaningless for Foretravels as we all know. You first need to decide if you want it repaired or totaled. Then you need an opinion from Nach with all the photos you can send. That sure looks like a nice coach. I imagine you'd hate to give it up. Even if they do total it and you want to keep the salvage and have it repaired that may be a good deal for you. In our state (Oklahoma) it wouldn't get a salvage title. It would be a regular title because of its age.
I don't recommend a lawyer at this point. Allstate hasn't done anything wrong and their lawyers don't look at claims unless something goes way off the rails.
Best wishes on this. Glad you're ok.
Make a list of comparable coaches for sale.
Bretts 100% correct. It's all about the running gear. You really need to get under that coach and take a good look. If this is not an area of your expertise find somebody. Lot's of lines up front. Air, Hydraulic fluid.that are critical to running down the road safely. Lots of other stuff like your steering gear. All that trim stuff can be covered up with that tape the Nascar guys use to hold it together after a wreck. Heck when I was a teenager I drove a pickup that looked worse than that as my daily driver!
We definitely don't want to give this coach up. We're pretty sure all systems are "go" and it's driveable, and the damage is just cosmetic as well as parts for the generator radiator. If they total it and we want to keep it, we're afraid we'll loose lots of money. How do we find out the ACV, and the salvage value that Progressive will want to subtract from that in order for us to keep it?
Totaled is a misnomer. To an insurance company it means that it would cost more to repair it than they estimate it is worth. To the rest of us it means it has no value. Many years ago, my wife was rear ended at a stop light knocking her into the vehicle in front of hers. No major injuries but she was very pregnant. The insurance company said our several year old Simca coupe was totaled and offered us the salvage value. I said fine, and as this is the value of the car, I'll just keep the wreck. Oh, no,we get the car. I said why do you want it,you have just said "it is totaled". Obviousally, a flaw in their argument. I advised them that my wife was 6 or 7 months along in her pregnancy (yes she was using a seat belt, they had just become standard) and I thought we ought to get X-rays of her neck and have a doctor check her neck. They paid the salvage price, I kept the car, adhesive taped the front bumper and fenders and headlights, the trunk lid, rear fenders and tail lights and drove the car to work for two more years and sold it for $200. (1962)
From my experience of years owning a body shop, being an insurance agent, depending on the estimate to repair, Progressive will use an outside company to value, that only performs work for insurance companies.
You would be better off instead of getting appraisal information doing this: gather togeather proof of what you paid, proof of any repairs or maintenance ou made after the purchase, and a specific list of all options and updates by the previous owner. Pictures of updates by previous owner if you do not have receipts. The insurance company, with that much damage, may want to total to avoid supplemental estimates of hidden damage or any supplemental bills after the repair. Often their threshold is 30% of book value, as they have agreements with national salvage yards to buy for 25% of book value.
I would gather all this to boost the value to what you concider is acceptable. You may be surprised at what they offer you, making you whole again.
Remember, the whole process is negotiable. You do not have to accept their first offer. Time to settle is on your side. If you decide to purchase salvage, do find out what you are getting into to repair, and register in your state. Some insurance companies do not allow owner to purchase salvage. However, all is negotiable. If they make you an offer you want to accept, and think it is unfair, always take a couple days to think it over.
Re: salvage title. I know that Newell refuses to work on a Newell with a salvage title regardless of age. Does Foretravel have the same policy? May be a moot point with MOT and others available to work on it. Just another thing to consider.
My 1999 U270 was under a Kentucky salvage title when I purchased it 1 yr ago. Mot, Fot and Stewart Stevenson all did service on it. At no time did anyone ask about title. It is now under a blue Texas title.
Mark
Here's another interesting thought. I don't even know what state's laws/regulations apply here. I bought the coach at MOT in Texas. They gave me a 60 day temporary plate. The title was from Montana, and it was signed over to me as a resident of Florida, but I have not registered the vehicle in Florida, or applied for a Florida title, or paid any sales tax which happens at time of registration, because I am out of state.
Very glad you and your family are well!
I would make a call to MOT. Maybe they could sent someone to inspect and photograph the damage. That way you would have an expert opinion on damage and possible repairs before deciding what YOU want to do.
How long will it be in impound?
If the rv is deemed a total loss, the insurance company is generally required by law to have you surrender the title and report it as a total loss, so the title is blemished.
I do not know what Progressive will do. Depending on the insurance company, the adjusters knowledge, the state working the claim, things can vary.
Some states mark the title salvage, previously salvage, or alliw a "rebuilt title." Some insurance companies have tightened up on this, and some have not. Some insurance companies have been sued because of a subsequent loss by a subsequent owner, who did not know the vehicle had previously been declared a total loss.
Hopefully if totalled. You save state tax.
Update idea: after all you were planning on titling it in South DAKOTA. Which has no sales tax on rv.
Saturday morning update.
I got under the coach yesterday, and to my eyes it doesn't appear that any of the drive train was effected. We checked for wheel rub side to side, okay. Air bags inflate and stay up. Drove it out of the impound yard and 2 miles to a nice campground where we are now. Drove okay that short distance.
I can probably, with duct tape and maybe some strapping, secure the loose front cap. Also tape a temporary mirror onto what's left of the old one. With these efforts I'd consider a slow drive down to Nac. I have one concern, which can be seen in the photo. A steering component, I don't know the name for it, but there's a vertical shaft that comes down from the steering wheel, moves forward and back as the steering wheel is turned. This component connects that vertical shaft to a horizontal shaft which extends back towards the front axle and steers the wheels. There is a rubber covering over that connecting component, to keep grease and dirt out I am guessing, that is cracked. See photos. Should I be worried about this in a 300 mile drive down to Nacogdoches?
Normal age cracking. Replace the rubber boot as things go along
Yup that is the pitman arm to drag link joint (on the drag link).
If no play in the joint, you are good to go.
Your choice then is to either grease the joint frequently and replace only when there is play OR replace the boot now (assuming zero play).
When I had mine totaled out they paid me sales tax on the payout.. added benefit I didnt expect. Every State could be different?
I live 100 miles from you on I 30 on your way to Nac. If I you need more tools or supplies than you have you can call me 870 556 0138.
I stand corrected. Love the forum for straight information.
? Was there a LLP way to avoid?
Thought I read that is why. High value new buyers were using the SD way.
Mark
I hate to keep adding more here but...
When we pulled into the campground yesterday after the 2 mile ride from the impound lot, my wife was standing behind the coach directing me and was very concerned about the noise she heard from the engine compartment. I went out, listened to it and agreed it was not what it sounded like prior to the accident. Today we took some video. It sounded worse yesterday, but still not right today. In the second video it looks like the pulley at top right is not spinning consistently. Also the belt seems to be flapping. Too loose? These are new belts, maybe not adjusted properly when installed? Here is the video link:
Engine Noise - Google Photos (https://photos.app.goo.gl/U8YVLeuUuoYaDytj6)
Turn OFF the dash A/C and let us know if the noise changes.
Dan,
That is the compressor for the dash A/C unit. With the front end damage you may have damaged a hose causing the system to loose freon. The compressor may be cycling due to the low pressure cut off switch. As has been posted report back after you cut off the dash air
Mike
You guys are great. That's exactly what it is. Don't know if it's related to the accident, but at least it's not something that would prevent me from driving the coach. Thanks.
Dan, that is dash air compressor, loosen it remove belt or cut belt, or maybe turn dash air off and pully will free-wheel without noise. By the way the sound seems normal.
Can you tell us what happened to cause the damage.
No need to cut the belt unless the bearings on the compressor/clutch are bad.
So, before cutting it, just turn it off (or even disconnect the wire to the compressor) and see if the noise/vibration goes away.
Tex; South Dakota has a sale tax, as we registered our coach there last year. You might be thinking about Montana.
Great example of how powerful and wonder full this forum and the staff behind the scene are. The checks and balance of correctly getting facts. Of course always do your own diligence on subjects if possible. Thanks for all Mark
Absolutely take it back to NAC, do all the above, trust me you don't want an inexperienced shop to touch your coach. I made the mistake of taking mine to a " local to me RV repair facility that came highly recommend, but boy was it a BIG BIG mistake. I had considerable damage from a hail storm that came thru out area a few years back. I decided to go ahead and take it to the local shop, was thinking it wouldn't take as long and I would be able to keep a watchful eye on the repairs, well again I should have taken it to Xtreme for the repairs. Again you don't always get what you pay for. I wish that I would have drove it back down to have the repairs completed. Most all worked out but I am still repaired little things that were charged for but we're not done correctly. The facility saw big dollar signs when they got it in their shop, kept it for nearly 4 months. If anyone wants the name of the place I will give it to you but not in the forum. I would never recommend them to anyone at all. She's all good now but gosh would never want another person to make the mistake I made.
Don't know what the cause was yet, but simply turning off the A/C switch on the dash either shuts down the compressor (or maybe a clutch, anyway that outermost portion of the pulley stops turning) and the clicking noise stops.
Turning off the dash A/C shuts off 12 VDC positive to the compressor clutch so the compressor is not engaged.
If that fixed it, you are good to go.
The clicking sound is simply the AC clutch pulling in and dropping out. When the AC is "on" the compressor is controlled by a low pressure switch, high pressure switch and of course the thermostat.
Front end damage could and probably did result in freon loss which would cause short cycling of the compressor if low on freon.
Hope you get these issues worked out soon and will be able to enjoy your new to you Foretravel
Hate to say it but strongly suspect it will be totaled. The damaged/displaced front cap is a big deal. If you have it transported to Nac I'd be sure that the insurance co is paying for it, and not pulling some little stunt like deducting transport cost from future settlement. That said, it's fixable but doubt you'd want to pay Xtreme out of pocket.
Call and send pictures to Extreme, Xtreme Paint & Graphics (http://www.xtremegraphics.net) (936)560-5888
they may do an estimate for you. Their work comes highly recommended by me and many others.
They will do phone estimate and work with your insurance adjuster and get you going.
No finer people to do business with.
Xtreme has already done the estimate and sent it to Progressive. Progressive has subsequently asked RVFOGDR to come down and do an on-site estimate. Hopefully that happens Monday or Tuesday.
Would it be unrealistic to look into doing the headlight conversion/upgrade at this point? Would that cost significantly more than the $25-30k estimate we got from Xtreme to repair things to the old style?
I'd suggest that you speak to Xtreme about this off line. I'm sure they've dealt with situations like this before and can help you navigate.
Personally I wouldn't let anyone else do the work. They do great work and are great people. I had some things done last year.... awesome experience.
FWIW, when I had some front end damage a year ago(the turkey did not survive) Xtreme(my first choice) was fully booked but FT could handle it. I had had Xtreme do my headlight conversion ten years ago. FT borrowed the mold from Xtreme to make the repair. Excellent cooperation between the two companies. When I've needed both mechanical and body work done at the same time, they scheduled the repairs together to make sure everything got done. Dan's repairs may probably require similar efforts.
You will want the headlight conversion done.. many of us have had both types of lights and when you witness the conversion driving at night you would never go back even if it cost you some out of pocket..
Tuesday update: Left Little Rock 6am, arrived in Nac 6pm. Decided to try stitching everything up with baling wire and duct tape, and we made it. Xtreme will look at the front-end damage in person in the morning and then we'll pow-wow with Progressive Insurance and see what they're willing to do.
Happy to hear you made it safely, wish you luck with the repair............
Hopefully the "tough luck" is all behind you now.
Proud of you. Now you (and we) know anything that happens to the coach you will be able to handle it. Glad you got to Naco. As the commercial says. "You are in good hands"
Here is also another example what good this forum does in helping people. Thank you Steve and Michelle
Okay I want to close this long post out by saying thank you to all those who provided support, and a lot of good advice over the last week since our accident. We drove it down to Nacogdoches, had Xtreme look at it, knocked some minor scratch repairs off the original estimate so the insurance company would agree to pay for it, which they finally did this morning. We're leaving it tomorrow at MOT to do the mechanical repair (problems with dash gauges and cameras from wiring damage, and dash A/C not working.) Extreme will do the body work and while they're at it the headlight upgrade. And lots of new paint. Looking forward to getting it back in a month or two. After all, we only owned it 48 hours before it got wrecked!
Have MOT look closely at why the steering wander before it leaves NAC. Also if steering box hasn't been replaced a really good time to do that before it starts leaking during a trip You made great repair choices
Yes, we discussed it. The first thing they want to do is apply some toe-in, see if that helps.
The box seals dissolve about this age. We have all had to fix this. Yours will also. Much cheaper while at the mothership
On steering gear box is not if but when.
If it has not been replaced yet you are long overdue.
Add me to the list of "wish I'd have done it before...."
Stopped in Baytown to visit Rudy on our way to Arizona in January. As we were talking we both looked down at the big puddle of oil under the steering box and I said "Oh sh*t". Got the outer seal replaced there but waited until Phoenix to get the box rebuilt.
Update on our repairs: New body parts have been manufactured by FOT, Xtreme picked up the coach from MOT Monday to start putting it back together. When they're done MOT can then work on dash wiring issues and A/C repair. Nobody is sure with the coronavirus situation what the expected completion date would be. But we're moving forward.
Thanks for the update. It's nice to see all those organizations working together, each doing what they do best.