Can the Heart 2500 be rebuilt or freshened up by anyone? It does everything I need but know it has a life. I really like the inside panel and hate to lose it. What would you suggest as a simple replacement if it can't be rebuilt or replaced with a like new unit.
Thanks
Several options let you use the existing cable with much better equipment. Everyone has a favorite so you will get many suggestions. Mine is the Xantrex SW3012.
So this is a direct replacement, same location, just transfer the wires?
Post a photo here and I can answer if it looks like a footprint that the SW 3012 fits. Some of the other inverter chargers members are using might be more exact. I had a Xantrex 3000 in the coach when I bought it so don't know about your 2500
Try using the excellent Forum SEARCH function - search the term "heart 2500 replacement". Lots of info.
Lots of choices. Not worth rebuilding anymore. Not capable of the now required by the battery makers of monitoring the battery temps to adjust the charging voltages per the batteries actual temps.
Craneman's Xantrex has the highest charging amps at 150. That exceeds what most battery banks can take.
Your coach is shown with 2 house batteries. You should be able to input around 80-90 amps in my experience.
I notice on Brian Boone's solar group on Facebook that he uses a lot of magnum hybrids. 3000 watts
If you use any of the magnum products their system is very advanced. Can include a sophisticated auto gen start module that can include temps.
The lowest power consumption internally is a Victron unit.
I am not a radical on this but as Mr Fore told me "bob my customers are American and I buy American where I can.
The Magnum is made in the USA as is the Xantrex? And the Outback. Victron is designed in eauope but made in India.
Your freedom 25's inverter remote panels wiring plugs directly into a Magnum replacement control panel.
The Victron was optimized for shorter term lighter loads and its design was modded to reduce its internal draws.
The others seem to be made to handle larger draws in warmer weather for longer times before derating(reducing output power)
Heavier cooling systems. Bigger transformers. That kind of stuff.
I found that the magnum units with their available me-arc panel can integrate your air conditioning system and aquahot systems into the auto start gen networked box.
Most users may not need or want that capability.
We have a cat we leave in the coach and we do dry camp at times. The abilitiy to start the gen and turn on the airs was of interest to us.
My understanding is you will need to run different wiring for the Victron units.
Magnum makes a heavy duty solar controller that can take residential 240 volt panels into it and has high capacity internal cooling fans. Designed for high loads and hot weather.
I read all the brands manuals and the Magnums are capable of being completely adjustable in every aspect of the complete system.
Super. I'll go with the Magnum ms 2812 when needed. Thanks
Do your own homework. Facts are facts.
I have the same unit. The expansion abilities was of interest to me as things go along.
We may due to health issues go on the road for an extended trip mid year next year.
A automated dual setback HVAC system and fully integrated auto gen start system and a larger solar system should be on by then.
If you are an occasional short term heavier power user and on lower power pedestals the hybrids ability to add inverter power to augment the shore power might be worth the additional expense of the ms 3012 hybrid unit.
If you read the manuals for all of their equipment you may be surprised at the extent of the integration their system offers.
Ms 2812. Me rc or the preferred arc remote panel. Then the me-ags-n networked gen start then the me-pt100 solar controller
I added a blue seas auto combiner for the battery banks. If you skip the running of the third wire to light up the panel the remote panel can be installed where the boost switch was without adding wiring.
You can hear the unit "click" when engaged from the drivers seat.
Plus we have dual battery gauges in the dash.
The Victron can be a less draw unit.
20-25 amp hours a day less? Depending on use of course.
I would add a third battery for sure like Foretravel did in the 97's
Visione had a 97 U320 long ago in their parting out website that seemed to have the upper rack and cabling you might be able to use to mount a third battery in your battery compartment.
You have 220-250 amp hours useable with 2 good 8d's.
The idea that our old coaches can be upgraded to a fully modern coaches standards is interesting.
When I bought my rig it came with the Magnum MS 2812 in a box which I have installed. I had to do a small modification to rack
that the inverter was in and the controller fit right into the hole that the Freedom controller was in and the telephone type wire
plugged right in. There were other wires from the Freedom that I didn't need. I never checked out other controllers and this one
works great.
As stated, everyone replaced to their needs.
I replaced my heart with xantrex SW 2012 2000watt inverter charger. Had to mount
Sideways, and xanbus control panel for inside was almost perfect fit. Needed adapters from xantrex to use original FT ribbon phone line.
In our fifth wheel, we had the 2812 with all the goodies installed and loved it. Great unit with auto gen start as well as we had an 8k gen on board. We have the Xantrex in our coach now and will be upgrading to a hybrid when we go with solar. Looking at the 3012 now! Buy American!
I was asked about the details on my post about an integrated HVAC System.
My understanding is that if you change the older Dometics roof airs boards and change the wall mounted thermostat to the newer 10 button design that the HVAC system can be made into a dual setback automatic system.
Heat, cool, and the various sub systems like in our case heat strips and/or aquahot.
Adding the ME-AGS-N allows auto gen start from all the various system demands.
Someone posted that the new Dometic air units had the correct boards in them already.
The various manuals are very detailed but if anyone is interested the extreme integration and customization is amazing.
ME-2812
ME-AGS-N
ME-ARC
ME-BTMS
ME-PT100
The solar controller reports its internal temps also to the ARC panel as does the MS 2812. Plus it's MOSFET's and transformer actual temps versus warning lights.
If you want WiFi reporting to a central website the Magnum has a wireless network setup or a wired to a hub connection.
You can program the dual setback system to look for some systems first and if unavailable the system will go to subsequent devices.
Shoreline fails with the ac on for example it can auto start the gen. Shore power returns it will stop the gen.
Unless the state of charge requests a gen run.
The solar controller is integrated into the system.
For some owners who do not want to know all about these things it can be preset and left alone.
Whatever it needs for temp control and battery charging is automatic.
Plus it can be set to exercise the gen and limit it's exact clock time hours of generation.
It can be set to run the gen an hour or so just prior to a gen quiet time period automatically.
It's SOC voltage required to start the gen is adjustable.
Some brands auto gen starts are not adjustable. Fixed low number.
I have 4, 6 volt batteries fir the coach
Roger, Thank you for hanging in here and your continued experienced advice. Your advice to "do your own homework, facts are facts" is so accurate and best states what I'm about to say, in many more words. Your opinion always comes thru true to me, and I've always been able to count on your well thought out advice.
I know all on this forum mean well, and I and some others have strong opinions. Our forum members often let their opinions, experience, needs and budget, over run someone else's posible needs and budget.
I do not know how to get people to do their own homework. I've chosen the path to just post what I've done and why. When I've seen misinformation, in my opinion, I've sometimes brought out a question to whether that is the only option.
I've cautioned forum members to understand half of the advise they get, including information from me, may be wrong for them, because only they know their needs and budget.
It is your $$$, do your research, including posibly measuring your needs, consider these needs and your budget, make your choice. This has worked for me. My recommendations are based on my research, experiences, needs, and budget. These will most likely vary from yours.
That being said, lately I just say little, and may watch how the thread goes. So please, if you are new to this area, read everyone's opinions, realize they are just that, not absolute truth, and please do your own additional research.
I posted this as experiences and recommendations, vary greatly on this forum regarding Xantrex, Magnum, Victron, Aims, Samlex, etc. inverter/chsrgers. However this also applies to tire brands, batteries, service center reputations, suppliers, UL or CE labels, fuel recommendations, additives, polish, wax, cleaners, climates, storage, made in USA, made in Canada, made in Mexico, made in Korea, made in China, etc. Thank goodness, most of us, agree on our favorite rv manufacturer, Foretravel.
Yes Jack, so true and thanks for reminding us. I am not an invertor expert so I do like opinions on units in and working. I'm calling several of the manufacturers tech numbers tomorrow. FT told me they would replace the heart for my application with the Freedom 458-2010-12 like for like and their remote will plug in my existing phone style cord. Since I need nothing more than this provides, I will probably get this. It's $929.98 to my door for both units with a 3 year warranty. I do have a budget to consider and don't expect adding solar on the roof.
Appreciate everyone's input
not Full sine wave. No temp compensation. No parts available.
Yes it's cheaper
:thumbsdown: Sometimes it is worth it (in the long run) to spend a bit more for better specs...
Ok. I stand corrected!! ha ha
A quick recommendation if the $930 is your budget. I've purchased three new Xantrex inverters over the past 15 years, never had an issue.
Check this out, $756 with remote, 2 year warranty, 2000 watt, 80 amp charger, Xantrex Freedom XC 2000 True Sine Wave Inverter/Charger
Xantrex Freedom Xc 2000 True Sine Wave Inverter/Charger - 12vdc - 120vac -... (https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xan817-2080-xantrex-freedom-xc-2000-true-sine-wave-inverter.html)
Xantrex Freedom X / Xc Remote Panel W/25' Cable (https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xan808-0817-01-xantrex-freedom-x--xc-remote-panel-w2539-ca.html)
https://youtu.be/h2Aqa7jqRfQ
I would recommend getting this newer model (just released, June. 15, 2020) for $989, including with the newer bluetooth remote.
Xantrex Freedom Xc Pro 2000 Inverter/Charger - 2000w - 100a - 120v - 12v (https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xan818-2010-xantrex-freedom-xc-pro-2000-invertercharger--2.html)
Xantrex Freedom X & Xc Remote Panel W/Bluetooth & 25' Network Cable (https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xan808-0817-02-xantrex-freedom-x-amp-xc-remote-panel-wblueto.html)
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/freedom-xcpro.aspx
I definitely would only get a true sine wave inverter, if nothing else your microwave will work better, not buzz, be more efficient when using. The $928.98 to your door is a modified sine wave Inverter.
Pure sine wave is becoming increasingly critical with todays appliances and accessories. A non pure unit has cost me one electric blanket, instantly killed, and one coffee grinder which melted down while unused and unattended. Watching this thread with interest.
Yes, the Heart 2500 can likely be rebuilt, but is probably not cost effective. MOT recommended replacing mine with the Xantrex SW3012 and I approved it. I haven't seen it yet, so I don't have any comments. I appreciated Bob's comments about the internal draw of the Victrons. People who have them love them, but they're mostly boondockers and need to sip their batteries. My interest is in rugged performance in hot environments (central Texas and south Louisiana) and the Xantrex seems to fit that bill (we'll see).
The Xantrex doesn't offer the new hybrid option -- boosting your AC power from batteries when you have high loads -- but I don't think I need that.
Several good choices. I would definitely go with pure sine if you're making a change.
Thanks everyone. I have plenty of info now to make an educated purchase. The pure sinewave is now a must for sure
I like my Victron equipment (2 inverters, charger, solar charge controller, integrated control and display, all internet connected) and like most who have Victron components we don't consider ourselves boondockers. It takes way more than a Victron Multiplus to be an off grid, off generator visitor to anywhere for a week or 10 days. Being able to is the goal.
Over time you will spend much more on your batteries than you spend on your inverter/charger. Everything you can do to maximize battery life (cycles) is important. 2 extra amps just to be on over say a six year battery life is more than 105,000 amp hr load on the batteries. It is not insignificant.
5 yr warranty on Victron Multiplus, 2 yr warranty on the Xantrex SW3012
Perhaps only the latest version of model 815-3012 Xantrex SW3012 is LiFePO4 (lithium) battery compatible if that might be a consideration down the road. If you expect to own your coach for longer than 2 sets of conventional batteries then it probably should be. Be sure to check the specs for the one you are looking at. The specs for the model 815-3012 sold at Amazon does not list Lithium battery compatibility. The specs for the same model 815-3012 at the Xantrex web site say it is lithium campatible.
There are many good solutions out there, each has benefits, likely none is perfect for everyone. Do your own homework, understand what you want and need, choose wisely for your situation.
The Xantrex will charge LiPo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkgkwCcuLgQ
As can a ms-2812 according to their engineer.
Ok. Talked to MOT today. Their service manager said stay with the Xantrex-Freedom 458-2500. Direct bolt in, panel cord will work and I really don't run expensive electronics so modified sinewave is enough. He also believes the Heart 2500 shouldn't be changed unless it's acting up. This is a camper for now. I don't live in it and use it 6-10 times a year Spring thru fall only.
Thanks again for all your input, I'm much wiser on Invertors than a week ago.
For the system you already have the 458 will work.
As he said you can wait for it to die.
Most owners are reactive. Wait for things to fail.
I get it. But I have a limited budget and I have spent a bunch this year on other upgrades. It's on the list for proactive this winter if it lasts that long.
most decisions are financial, are they not?
You should be ok for a while
We are in the same "boat" as you "dans-" with a limited budget to spend on our "vacation ride" we have to pick our priorities. Just can't do all we would like to do on the coach, so breakdowns come first, then maintenance and if $$ left maybe some minor upgrades.
The inverter is on my short list but because it hasn't given any trouble, it hasn't moved to the top yet.
Now I'm gonna "knock on wood" got plenty of that around me. Beautiful walnut as a matter of fact. 😁
Set aside some $ like you (should) do for batteries and tires for the inevitable charger/inverter failure. The Prosine in our 2001 coach and many others had a pretty high failure rate at 18-20 years of age. Often it was the charger side that failed. If you are using your coach for shorter trips or a week or two at a time a failure is almost more critical to you on your ability to use your coach on your limited time opportunities. Replacing it where it is safe to do so and on your time schedule may be prudent.
Ditto Roger.
That's exactly what and how we decided. At 23 years old, we'd rather pick the time and place for the replacement (MOT) rather than be on the road when we lose 12v. The timing was not great as it doubled the budget for our fridge install (more on that later). The inverter/converter was budgeted for next year, so we'll probably skip next years' upgrades.
I agree with Roger and Rick. Immediately after buying my FT, within one day I replaced 6 tires, within one month changed all fluids and filters, and the first month I sold my Heart inv/chrg for $$300, and bought a pure sine wave Xantrex SW2012. My wife questioned why the microwave in the FT buzzed and did not work as well as the one in our Monaco Signature, even though they were the same. After the new Xantrex inverter, she wanted to know how I fixed the microwave.
You can spend your money if you like. Most people like to. But I learned this from Wyatt Sabourin: You only run one appliance at a time off an inverter. Each appliance is 15 amp max. So, 15 x 110 = 1650 watts. Get an 1800 watt pure sine wave inverter which will cover your needs and a seperate battery converter (charger). They will do everything want and be less than half the cost of the hoitie toitie inverter/chargers. If one gives up, you only have to replace that module. Simple.
As others have posted here inverter efficiency can make quite a difference in the amount of power the inverter itself consumes making 120 volt out of 12volt.
Nearly impossible to get an actual chart on how many amps being produced is at what efficiency.
All brands quote a "max efficiency" only Magnum has published a chart to show the actual amount lost.
Judging by their chart all their units up to an including their 48 volt units have a "sweet spot" which is where it's max efficiency is.
All their models show a low to mid draw of power versus the inverters total output rating as their "sweet spot"
So taking a smaller inverter and using most of its total power rating may be more power consuming than a bigger unit at a smaller percentage of its total rated output......
The difference in idle draw from the mentioned units is around 1 amp hour from lowest to highest in 120 volt units I have seen the specs of.
Their are adjustments to actually turn off some brand inverters to lessen the draw at idle. They can turn on at set able intervals
The Magnum remote panel has a black led lettering on a clear screen that can be set to turn off at various intervals.
That's in the power saver section.
Same idea with the blue seas power meter, OLED. .3 watts to 1.0 watts of 12 volt for the unit to display both legs depending on brightness setting and it can be set to turn off at various times on top of that
I proactively replaced my Freedom 2500 2 years ago. I have read and heard about how when they go, they also take out other electronics. Also the monitor never worked since I bought the coach, so I didn't know what the charge rate or any other data needed for battery management.
I replaced the inverter with a Magnum ms2812. It works fine but I did have to modify the rack where the old Freedom was. The Magnum is an 1.5" wider. I also replaced the house batteries and added a little solar. By adding solar I was able to claim the 30% solar credit. That saved me nearly $1800 for the total cost of batteries, inverter and solar.
I am not sure if the tax credit is still available, but something to consider.
We changed the magnum inverter to a panel mount instead. Mounted to the front compartment wall.
Makes it easier to mount the auto gen start and the pt-100 solar controller.