According to Foretravel my build #5132 does not have a fuel cooler. I have seen posts here where members rebuilding their cooling systems mentioned that there coaches had such a cooler installed.
I seem to be the recipient of either a long term heating condition finally resulting in a failure or a short term overheating that caused my ECU to fail.
In the Foretravel brochures I find no references to a fuel cooler anywhere.
I understand that the unit is a long physically low profile radiator mounted in front of the other radiators.
Is that true? How many of you have noticed if you have such a cooler installed?
Or have such a cooler.
I was driving at higher speeds and at 98 degrees for around a 100 miles when the failure occurred.
Maybe just a heads up but most owners would not drive as hard as I do in warm weather but I assumed over the many years and hours this failure would have come up before.
Interesting that Foretravel added a cooler and did not seem to mention it in their literature.
Anyone else have an issue?
My cooler is on the return line mounted on the outside of the CAC.
My ECM showed a small residue of heat transfer paste. I Would think it could be smothered in it. This would increase the cooling and require more fuel cooling but would help to reduce ECM temperature Dow Corning 340
1446622 Silicone Heat Sink Compound Lubricant Grease, 5 oz, 140 g Tube:... (https://www.amazon.com/1446622-Silicone-Compound-Lubricant-Grease/dp/B00CAVTGNE/ref=sr_1_2?crid=SKU5KMX13VB0&dchild=1&keywords=dow+corning+340+heatsink+compound&qid=1595596189&sprefix=Dow+Corning+340%2Caps%2C210&sr=8-2)
Also would prevent corrosion that was prevalent on both the ECMs I've had my hands on and all the used ones show it. Higher capacity cooler pre ECM seems like a good idea. It is mounted on the opposite side from the turbo on the side of the engine.
Scott
Keeping the fuel topped off does the same thing.
It's another job I will do one day is add a fuel cooler as my coach doesn't have one. It doesn't look like I will be doing any big trips
this year so I will always have my tank topped up so I'm not in a hurry to so that.
In my 2001 U320, the fuel cooler is hidden between the CAC and the radiator. The lower flap to control air flow hides the cooler and fuel lines to it. Found my cooler when radiator removed to clean and re-gasket it. Nice surprise.
I added one, outboard of CAC.
Adding a fuel cooler is on my list. After a long day of driving in warm to hot weather my VMSpc shows my fuel as high as 142º. When I fill at half a tank (approx 60 gallons into a 130 gallon tank) the temp does drop but is back to 140º plus in less than an hour. :( 6 hours is about my limit on the road. I'm sure fuel temp would be even higher if I drove longer.
Been trying to think of some way to ventilate the fuel compartment but don't want to put a fan in there. Doesn't seem like a good idea to put a possible spark source in there with the propane and fuel. Open to suggestions.
Beside cooling, fuel lubricates fuel injectors. The hotter the fuel the lower lubricity. (Was told this by Bernd)
I'm waiting for Pierce to install a cooler so I can follow in his footsteps! Get busy Pierce. :)
see ya
ken
This coach was sold new to the Robinson family who lived in Cave Creek, Arizona.
The service records that are in the coach show that at roughly 200 hours the ECU failed.
Always wondered why such a thing would have occurred.
Any other early coaches with coolers from Foretravel?
Thanks for the fuel temp reports btw.
The tank had had 125 gallons put in it a 100 miles before the failure and was full
Has anyone with a fuel cooler experienced a ECU failure?
Ken,
Pretty easy to do:
I just bought a transmission cooler from Hayden. Mount outermost in cooling package-- outboard of CAC.
Remove fuel return line from engine and put on outlet to cooler.
Have new fuel line made from engine fuel return port to inlet of cooler.
Here's a pic of our outboard Fuel Cooler. I almost always travel on top half of 194 gallon tank.
'00 U320 ISM450 36 WTFE
Agreed-- both a fuel cooler AND traveling on the top half of the fuel tank help with both fuel temperature and fuel pressure.
Anyone have a model number and source for that cooler?
Bob,
Not sure there is a specific one that is better than others. Look at how/where you want to mount it.
And the one I sized for the Caterpillar 3116 would likely be undersized for your Cummins M engine.
One other point-- I would also have a "cover" for it. If driving in below freezing conditions, you could OVER-cool the fuel. Dianne made one that can be velcroed over it for winter use.
Thanks Brett.
If no one has had a ECU failure with an OEM cooler on an M11 I would think their selection is good.
Anyone tell me how their oem is mounted? Was the charge cooler modded to furnish attachment points?
Or does it bolt through? No mods for the cooler?
Bob, I think I usually drive harder than you as we usually do 10 to 12 hrs at a time but I do have a cooler and no problems with engine.
Mine is in usual place on outside of cac.
Johnh
John thanks for your info.
I think it's not the time but the loading.
I was at 78mph and 1670 rpm and it was 98 degrees outside at around 4,500 feet elevation in medium rolling hills.
36k total load. Gen on and roof airs on and dash air on. 100 miles on cruise to have the light and dinger come on.
No fuel temp I can see in the nomenclature on a M11 celect plus engine
Did bend, Oregon to Corona, ca. 909 miles
Also telluride to Costa Mesa, ca. 809.
Not in a hurry to do either again.
The bend to ca run was at full revs on a 3116 cat tradewinds coach. Nearly 90.
Boring on I5
The telluride was also fully wound out on a 300 cat ored at Christmas time.
Bad examples both
Tom Johns posted this p/n several years. fuel cooler on M11 (https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=28047.msg231754#msg231754)
Anyone know if it would be able to be installed on my 97?
Of course. An easy DYI project. See my post #9 above.
The quote I received today was for $255 plus shipping, 2 week lead time, said last one they sold was in 2015.
Anyone help on bracketing? Is the CAC different where the cooler mounts? Cast in mounts?
If you installed the cooler on the return line, the temperature difference would be the most so by far the most effective. Many have an electric fan to blow air through the cooler. Installing on the return line also eliminates the possibility of a leak introducing air into the system. At least 70% of the fuel the lift pump brings to the engine, returns to the tank.
Any old aftermarket transmission cooler will work fine. No pressure to worry about.
This one is overkill with fan at $65 plus tax delivered: 15 Row 10AN Engine Transmission Oil Cooler + 7" Electric Fan Kit Universal... (https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-Row-10AN-Engine-Transmission-Oil-Cooler-7-Electric-Fan-Kit-Universal-New/283750744523?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4210dcc1cb:g:UEwAAOSwr05eJbRr&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACcBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickk7PdDazAlGltMLJlUhrWsD4LWBCWZbhlZWfyLrRlLgUxYTVkwTteFJ8n8Glzfdg%252Bvfee0NnbqMDV5qiEH2UP1GC2TvrFPcXyLfPyaDIbd78GzkB3uRDjQCk0hzV0XSLGj6iHnTnqt45g71RVtMV2lMPMVAGGdOBn6G2eKvm%252BizcZXndYofYCvtK2Re47zJlAze6yVv1uqa0r5KF2PXQ0x9xGcAt%252F%252BKvVhPVuLoKsP%252Bn03OLBY7vh4qg5Iv8RviBoGEeqwIOoq9%252F0yZsw7MqzEqQZqEGLrqnaKHArS88YAMBUQKBcV9YWmvKKZ5LDhMbHtWku6JQkJhi%252FfYn3SmhdJHgR9QogxcTQThZvFPsBu3Ay%252Fj8sEzKdjDEwRLKugywn30lTR%252BKcRWUdEmjcQxZkglH8HZ4fJRBK0V%252FNrXv8rtsWMPpiZSE3c0bSM0er9Qx17bpYspVXdS98ElfwHje%252BNHQKE%252Bp6tOp58O9LEZNJCyT59PohwoYllcmZSXNz6141gUPfrbdjc2zOi9lodG87QMGecnrVQfWT4Mn%252BMGen2JFoSpGuf2b3F1cEOwZ2SnUjzpgqwqI0RbAmj2Q1TvAfbooHu4zMxgWe6xIxPeIf3CP9hijOixHffeKXiz0DIPiF8e7ve8zquWlj2dhJ2eNxhXoFpql33Og1emZl7KlNWzQoNb8GpkMGOIJkZNSkvYjVR5zerUpHDsP1QupsBqkUpndZvS6AQvRBRbJLQ7EQowHwwHNwzWsHHhwCOPXRRcP9x%252Fl7II0%252FyD1HhD2xkTl%252BKvw%253D%253D%7Ccksum%3A283750744523757290d364e94e909b68b6a0192000a6%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524)
Pierce
Pierce just where would the ideal location be on our type coach?
Brett installed one so he probably have a good idea. So, it can't be in a confined space and you would not want to run a line very far away from the path it takes back to the tank. You also would not want to mount it where it could be damaged by road debris. That leave you with two choices, somewhere in the rear or up by the tank. Nice to be able to inspect it easily. A cooler can be purchased in different shapes so you might want to figure the location possibilities first and then look for the cooler to fit. The fuel will be the warmest right as it heads back in the return line. It won't loose much heat in the rubber hose that Foretravel gave us so the cooler with a fan will act like an intercooler with the fuel leaving the cooler with much less heat content than it arrived with whether in the rear of the front of the coach.
Brett, how bout ideas?
Pierce
I like in the "front"/outside of the CAC. That is where the fuel is hottest (4' from the engine). And, hot fuel does not heat up the basements.
Yes, you can mount it elsewhere in back with a fan if desired-- just a little more complex.
Bob just to add to my comment we now pull a dodge Durango at 6k lbs and most of our driving is thru the US, Nevada Arizona and Mexico so Temps are up there except in winter last summer did Utah and 112 deg outside to Colorado. We have 10,000 ft hills in BC too.
We have smaller engine than you but Banks does help on the hills.
John
As i do not want to re-engineer Foretravels work and I might put a good load and heat on this coach the oem install would seem prudent
Bob,
Many of us with no fuel cooler from the factory have retrofitted one. No big deal. I installed mine in 2010 after a discussion with Caterpillar engineers about HP vs hot fuel.
I wish someone had posted that fact. I read every post back to the old site and there was almost no mention of a fuel radiator