Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: jor on September 11, 2020, 03:28:39 pm

Title: Atlas Radiator > Fuel Coolers > Lift Pump Discussion
Post by: jor on September 11, 2020, 03:28:39 pm
I'm buying a new radiator from Atlas. The number is B-2358 and the cost is $2,488. Incidentally, I talked with both Foretravel and Atlas. This same radiator was used for years on all Foretravel models so if you're running an 8.3 or an M-11, you're buying the same radiator. Lead time is about six weeks.
jor

I should add that this number supersedes the original number which is B-2148.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: craneman on September 11, 2020, 03:33:42 pm
Is the reason for replacement interior or exterior damage?
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: jor on September 11, 2020, 03:49:42 pm
Quote
interior or exterior damage?

Fin rot which is now leaking. I did not do my (as they say) due diligence when I bought this rig. Just went by what I knew from the forum. Had some surprises as a result. When I got it home I got in there and took a close look and was very flabbergasted to find fin rot with exposed tubes. No leaks, however. I've put 30,000 miles on this coach and it's never overheated but I have been uncomfortable with this all along. Time to fix it right. Cheaper to do a recore but this will give me true peace of mind.
jor
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: Caflashbob on September 11, 2020, 04:34:01 pm
Are you adding a fuel  cooler?
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: jor on September 11, 2020, 05:11:48 pm
Quote
Are you adding a fuel  cooler?
Hadn't really thought about it, Bob. I was thinking about getting the CAC too ($1,352) but decided against it. From what I have read, they don't fail as a rule being aluminum with no rust issues. Anyhow, it does have a cooler sandwiched between the radiator and CAC with hydraulic lines running to it. Are we normally adding fuel coolers now?
jor
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: wolfe10 on September 11, 2020, 05:37:31 pm
Are we normally adding fuel coolers now?
jor

YES.  Particularly with the "insulated" location of the fuel tank, a fuel cooler if running in above 80 degree F conditions is a good idea.

Been well discussed here-- basically, add a Hayden "transmission cooler" in the return line from the engine.  Be able to cover it (Dianne made one that velcro'ed in place on ours) for operation in cold weather.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: Caflashbob on September 11, 2020, 05:42:29 pm
Production started adding them sometime after ours.  99's?  M11's? 

I ate a m11 ECU on a hot high speed drive last  month in Utah after 3,000 hours

$6k later. 

I got a quote from the cooler people.  $300 range plus shipping.  Mounting kit from Foretravel separate
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: John44 on September 11, 2020, 05:44:51 pm
Make sure the CAC mounting tabs on the bottom are in good shape,had to have mine rewelded at Huffman Radiator in Sinton tx,would'nt hurt to price that radiator from them,may be a little cheaper.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: Chris m lang on September 11, 2020, 05:48:08 pm
Brett our coach has a small cooler hanging in front of the CAC, is that a fuel cooler or something else?
Thanks
Chris
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: wolfe10 on September 11, 2020, 05:52:58 pm
Brett our coach has a small cooler hanging in front of the CAC, is that a fuel cooler or something else?
Thanks
Chris

Should be easy to trace the lines from engine to it if it is a fuel cooler.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: craneman on September 11, 2020, 05:56:53 pm
Brett our coach has a small cooler hanging in front of the CAC, is that a fuel cooler or something else?
Thanks
Chris
That is the fuel cooler on the outside of the CAC on my '99
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: oldguy on September 11, 2020, 08:25:48 pm
Brett I typed in Hayden transmission cooler and there quite a few. Which on is recommended.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: dans96u295ft on September 11, 2020, 08:54:44 pm
So since I have a 1996 mechanical Bosch fuel pump, I don't need a fuel cooler?
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: craneman on September 11, 2020, 09:04:02 pm
So since I have a 1996 mechanical Bosch fuel pump, I don't need a fuel cooler?
See reply #5 yours didn't come with a fuel cooler but adding one is recomended.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: dans96u295ft on September 11, 2020, 09:11:51 pm
Interesting. 126,000 miles and no fuel cooler? and no issues but I don't live in AZ either
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: John Haygarth on September 11, 2020, 09:59:24 pm
Here is the cooler on our 295
Johnh
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: craneman on September 11, 2020, 10:02:12 pm
What did that come off of John?
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: John Haygarth on September 11, 2020, 10:08:26 pm
It was on when we bought coach. Oem from foretravel I am sure
Johnh
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: Caflashbob on September 11, 2020, 11:51:07 pm
It's a hydraquip
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: bbeane on September 12, 2020, 12:00:34 am
Mines is mounted different but the same cooler. The plumbing for it is some what of a mystery. Out of the transfer pump body to the mystery mess to the cooler out of the cooler to the mystery block then out to the tank. Only thing I can think of is it's a thermostat of sorts, or just a bunch of fittings
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: Don & Tys on September 12, 2020, 02:03:35 am
I removed this assembly from mine when I put in a new Mishimoto fuel cooler, full time HD FASS UP95 lift pump, and re-plumbed the fuel cooler loop. I took it apart and the only component that isn't a fitting is a check valve of sorts. The rube goldberg assembly adds no less than five 90ยบ elbows and all the check valve could do as far as I could tell is allow some fuel to bypass the cooler if the fuel cooler was somehow clogged. John Haygarth's 2000 ISC does not have it and other 2000 and later coaches that I have looked at do not have it either. I made a function diagram of it while figuring out how to plumb the loop without this assembly. The I/O of the Mishimoto cooler is on one end and I had to fabricate mounts. The original cooler was held on by a couple of of cable clamps. The new one has threaded bosses welded on for mounting and AN fittings for the plumbing.
Don
Mines is mounted different but the same cooler. The plumbing for it is some what of a mystery. Out of the transfer pump body to the mystery mess to the cooler out of the cooler to the mystery block then out to the tank. Only thing I can think of is it's a thermostat of sorts, or just a bunch of fittings
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: bbeane on September 12, 2020, 09:40:08 am
Thanks Don, I started to install that piece in the unnecessary parts bin
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: Jan & Richard on September 12, 2020, 12:45:09 pm
Don,

Thanks for the post.  I will have to check my coach out to see if Rube Goldgerg worked on mine. 

Richard
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: Don & Tys on September 12, 2020, 06:21:36 pm
It will be interesting to see if they used this assy. for the 99' ISM equipped coaches. I bet the ISM's don't have a lift pump that only runs to prime the injection pump and then becomes a passive pass through manifold along for the ride...
Don
Don,

Thanks for the post.  I will have to check my coach out to see if Rube Goldgerg worked on mine. 

Richard
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: craneman on September 12, 2020, 06:54:47 pm
It will be interesting to see if they used this assy. for the 99' ISM equipped coaches. I bet the ISM's don't have a lift pump that only runs to prime the injection pump and then becomes a passive pass through manifold along for the ride...
Don
No lift pump for my '99 ISM or M-11 which ever it is.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: Don & Tys on September 13, 2020, 12:27:01 pm
Chuck,
Are you saying that the ISM fuel injection pump has no low pressure fuel transfer pump and relies entirely on suction of the gear pump component of the injection pump to bring fuel all the way through 25' or 30' of fuel line? I find that surprising after my experience trying to address my fuel starvation issue. It seems to me that such a design would be very prone to even the most minuscule air leak on the suction side of the fuel supply.
Don.
No lift pump for my '99 ISM or M-11 which ever it is.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: craneman on September 13, 2020, 12:42:53 pm
I guess you could call my priming pump a lift pump. I always referred to it as the primary pump on diesel engines. The ISX is the only schematic I could find. I believe that they would be the same.
Fuel System Cummins ISX15 CM2350 - Electronic Engine - Blog.Teknisi (https://www.blog-teknisi.com/2018/12/fuel-system-cummins-isx15-cm2350.html)
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: craneman on September 13, 2020, 01:22:24 pm
More research is needed as I don't see the priming pump on pictures of M11's fuel system which can't be copied and pasted.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: Caflashbob on September 13, 2020, 03:52:04 pm
I think the prime pump is integral with the fuel filter
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: oldguy on September 13, 2020, 04:13:21 pm
My priming pump is part of the primary fuel filter.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: Don & Tys on September 13, 2020, 04:36:18 pm
I guess my question would be whether or not the priming pump you are referring to is running when the coach is going down the road or whether the injection pump has help once the engine is running. In other words, if you were to put a fuel pressure gauge just before the injection pump while the engine is running, is there a vacuum or is there a positive pressure ahead of the injection pump. Before I did the HD lift pump mod on our coach, such a gauge would have registered between 5 and 15 psi when you turn the key on (which primes the injection pump) and a vacuum 30~45 seconds after the key on event. Now, there is a constant low pressure high volume feed (12.5 psi to 17.5 psi) while going down the road.
Don
I guess you could call my priming pump a lift pump. I always referred to it as the primary pump on diesel engines. The ISX is the only schematic I could find. I believe that they would be the same.
Fuel System Cummins ISX15 CM2350 - Electronic Engine - Blog.Teknisi (https://www.blog-teknisi.com/2018/12/fuel-system-cummins-isx15-cm2350.html)
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: craneman on September 13, 2020, 08:10:44 pm
Don I don't think there is any 12 volt pump that comes on with ignition. Our priming pump is only used for filter changes. Tomorrow I will visually look at the fuel lines on the coach, but my memory says when I did my fuel lines the line from the tank went to the primary filter to the fuel pump inlet then to the secondary filter then to the ecm cooler.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: John44 on September 13, 2020, 09:07:15 pm
Need to change this from radiator to lift pump choices.
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator
Post by: Bob & Sue on September 14, 2020, 12:45:18 am
It's good to know my radiator would support a M11 engine. 
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator > Fuel Coolers > Lift Pump Discussion
Post by: floridarandy on September 16, 2020, 06:26:30 pm

Interesting thread. Had read about the desirability of the fuel cooler but never took the time to look.  Looks like our 2000 ISC has the same one...either factory or previous owner. 
Title: Re: Atlas Radiator > Fuel Coolers > Lift Pump Discussion
Post by: dsd on September 18, 2020, 09:09:11 am
I guess my question would be whether or not the priming pump you are referring to is running when the coach is going down the road or whether the injection pump has help once the engine is running. In other words, if you were to put a fuel pressure gauge just before the injection pump while the engine is running, is there a vacuum or is there a positive pressure ahead of the injection pump. Before I did the HD lift pump mod on our coach, such a gauge would have registered between 5 and 15 psi when you turn the key on (which primes the injection pump) and a vacuum 30~45 seconds after the key on event. Now, there is a constant low pressure high volume feed (12.5 psi to 17.5 psi) while going down the road.
Don
Don the prime pump only runs when requested by operator. There is a control box back in the engine compartment at top. Press the push button and it runs for like 30 seconds. I installed a filter minder on the fuel vent valve to show filter condition. Past screen and first fuel filter. Shows half scale with new filter and old lines. Haven't drove since fuel lines were changed, but hope to take it out this weekend. I'm curious about your fuel cooler. I have the same Aftermarket  brand cooler on my on my Dodge 3500 truck transmission. Very robust cooler
Did your cooler come with the thermostat like mine or without.
Scott